Its okay for TWI and (its founding member) to violate and ignore copyright law when it suits their purposes but the moment someone does it to them they consider it a problem ! They can't have it both ways.
A recent VPW devotee posted at Gspot that
PFAL is basically "God's word" so "the laws of man" don't apply - that is copyright laws and plagiarism don't apply. But then why would TWI oppose the exhibition /redistribution of PFAL if this was truly the case ? If its "the word" and it can bless someone then why not let it be viewed the world over to promote "the accuracy of Gods word" ?
VPW stole from others and violated copyright law when he self-published his "works" and passed them off as his own. A lot of that material is in PFAL. Of course TWI profitted from sales of those books and the class itself
but morally and ethically , not to mention legally, TWI owes the original authors of those works. But they will never pay them of course.
I think the main reason TWI jumped on that website is so they wouldn't have to explain to folks they're trying to convert why they were using the pooch pornography in the Advanced Class ...
Oh, so embarassing!
And they'd have to explain why on earth a 50-60 year old man was showing pornography to minor teenagers...
It's not the differences I dislike, it's the negative emotions that go along with it all.
The 'negative emotions' are part and parcel of having relationships that are defined by, "I am right, you are wrong. Listen to me!"
You call it that way, Mike.
quote:
The fact that I read this site and it's precursors for years, and then jumped in for over 4000 posts should tell you that I'm not afraid of differences.
I didn't say you were afraid of differences. I didn't say you were afraid of anything.
What I said is that you don't like it when people don't think like you.
It's one thing to enjoy differences...quite another to tell people they are wrong in their differences...and still quite another thing to expect people to change to your way of thinking if they want to measure up and be 'right' in your eyes
quote:
I've posted here many times that all throught the 70's and even a little in the 80's I went to trinitarian churches and listened to their side.
Yeah...so? What good did it do you?
quote:
I always loved witnessing, and on the street I always encounter diferences. In the poetry circles I hang out nearly everyone is of a completely differing perspective than me.
See what I say above.
quote:
I think you've not been paying very close attention to my posts, or your retention of their content is poorly motivated.
Yer right! How clever! ;)-->
quote:
This speaks loud to the way you paid attention and/or retained the contents of Dr's books. If you come back to PFAL you will see that you not only got me wrong in this situation, but your whole perspective on the contents of PFAL will be wonderfully and positively upgraded.
I took PFAL once and only once...when I was 18yo...and about to have a baby.
The reason I took it once and only once is because I didn't want to have 'itching ears' and 'heap unto myself teachers' and be 'ever learning but never coming to a knowledge of the truth'.
But once through PFAL was all it took to make my thinking so crooked that I actually tried to live in that insanity for the next 26 years.
If you were to return to the contents of the PFAL books I think you'd see that the situation is not the one your limited template of expectations (typical co-dependency) is capable of perceiving.
You got it all wrong buddy. You are defending a man and his actions, AND actions you saw yourself of other leadership by saying that the Word taught was perfect. That is co-dependency. I should know because I spent many years defending that same bull.... myself because I didn't want God's ministry to be blamed. You completely forget that the fruit they produced was a result of what was in their heart. It surely wasn't God's Word or they would have exposed their wrongs and came clean about it. That would have been the respectable thing to do instead of putting a stupid saying on a grave marker to show the world that you were so humble.....Gawd!!! It makes me want to puke it was so horrid!!
quote:
Paraphrasing Corinthians: Eye has not seen, ear has not heard, nor has it entered into man's imagination, the good things God has prepared for those who love Him.
I'm not so sure that you love Him. It's your pfal you love and defend. God needs no defense, nor does his Word. Therefore, why do you spend so much time defending something so fallible?
If we don't become Jesus Christ men and women, and rise up to HIS level and ability to handle great hurts, then our friends and relatives who were hurt do not have much of a chance.
BTW that's a quote from Mike
Grease Spot by midnight is the way I take it from you Mike!
I think the main reason TWI jumped on that website is so they wouldn't have to explain to folks they're trying to convert why they were using the pooch pornography in the Advanced Class ...
And they'd have to explain why on earth a 50-60 year old man was showing pornography to minor teenagers...
Oh hell yes. This would definitely require some explanation now wouldn't it ?
Also in the CF&S class there were those pics of penises and "teachings" on slang terms for genitalia and various sexual acts. Why was that in there ? Most people knew plenty of these and we were there ostensibly to learn about what God had in mind relative to sex. Not to hear sex-fiend Vic get tingly while telling us about "dirt road".
I recall an elderly woman sitting in on that class and she was thoroughly embarassed not just for herself but for everyone in the room. She was disgusted that someone would have to go so low as to show sex pics and discuss slang as a way to educate us on God's plan for physical love. I agreed with her %100. It wasn't our fault that Uncle Vic like to perv out and talk dirty.
Slight change of subject here but I recall that around 78 or so people were warned to guard their AC syllabus from others because a wayfer had been judged to be insane by a court because the person believed the content of the syllabus. The story was repeated frequently enough to get me to consider that it might be one of the many Way urban myths but whatever it was clear that TWI leaders didn't want people to be talking about what they had been teaching in the AC.
Also TWI clearly wants an income stream from PFAL or any class it has rights to. Free distribution and exhibition of the material deprives them of money. That they no longer support PFAL as their premier educational tool is beside the point. Its part of the Way holdings so they want to get paid whenever its shown.
But I do feel that the copyright issues draw out that TWI are major hypocrites. They want a site shutdown since they own the copyright but that didn't stop them from vanity publishing VPW's stolen works (that was the only way he could get published). Next time some VPW devotee starts saying copyrights don't matter then I'll direct them to this thread so they can see that to TWI copyrights most certainly do matter though apparently only only when it serves the interests of TWI.
Isn't there some web site that you can go to and pull up old web sites that are no longer "live"?
I believe Igotout or one of other resident geeks know what I'm talking about. You can do a search on "Waydale" and come up with the ol' waydale.com site....
if you were sitting quietly when you knew there were wrong sex things going on and didn't screech that to the highst mountain you are as guilty as those who were doing it
CF&S...Another attempt by Vic to educate us in the "hole" of the werd...and what a sham the "class" was...it was touted as the "greatest teaching" on the subject anywhere on planet earth...and in reality, the class was wretched...
Grifter Vic lays out a short biology lesson that most 6th graders get (only much better), then he goes off reading a lot of stuff from proverbs regarding the "virtuous woman"...remember all that stuff?...Put her on a pedastel?...and all the while, he was holding Dorthea up as the woman he adored...he was bumpin' uglies with young girls in the motorcoach...HYPOCRITE! In public, he used his wife as a "showpiece" of sorts...but it was all to make HIM look good...in private, he abused her terribly.
...and now this adulterous cornfield grifter is gonna sit there and teach us all about the Christian family...and also about SEX??? Like he knew anything about it...righhhhht...and lets not forget that this was the class where his now infamous "every woman in the kingdom belongs to the king" line came from...and of course, the wink, wink, nudge, nudge when it came to the subject of abortions...
...and yeah, Vic DID get a twinkle in his eye when he "shared" with us all those nasty dirty words...but of course, he was doing it for our benefit...it isn't every day that you can find a middle aged, conservative, preacher from Ohio...that is willing to teach a bunch of 20 year old hippies the latest "street jargon" to keep us on our guard...
I've been posting a lot less this year, slowly wrapping up my presentations here and moving back into private one-on-one interactions. Please remember that I was literally dragged onto this board without my consent a few years ago.
He had NO choice in the matter. Someone dragged him to the pc and held a gun on him until
he typed the messages. his family was held hostage unless he kept typing. -->
quote:
I don't like all the huge confrontations that go on.
And yet, outside the political forum, he seems to be in the middle of most of them.
Coincidence? Offensive content? Offensive style? All of the above?
quote:
Lorna Doone's long post yesterday reminded me of how wonderfully we all COULD be interacting.
That will last until she either agrees pfal is the new Bible (agreeing with Mike),
or until Mike insults her too (if she doesn't agree pfal is the new Bible.)
quote:
The topic of this thread is the proPFAL website that is up and running,
It WAS...
quote:
and I may soon be shifting my focus and posting there.
Mike had already posted there some time ago. His famous "last lost" subject was up there.
Of course, that's academic now, since twi sent their attack dogs after the board.
quote:
I feel there is still unfinished business here, though, but my time and energy are less these days for the knock down drag out affairs I seem to often find myself in here.
We've several times discussed the differences between Free Speech forums and Focused Speech forums. It seems that because of the vast confusion and many perplexing situations surrounding twenty years of TWI activities, and the over-controled speech traditions from which we came, this board was set up to allow just about any kind of legal speech, and I think rightly so. This board is so free in what it allows to be posted the EVEN I am allowed to be here. I realize I'm a ringer here, and have often expressed my thanks to Pawtucket for his stand on such freedom of expression.
And has "thanked him" by disregarding the rules of conduct he's asked to follow,
like not posting his Doctrine outside the Doctrine forum.
quote:
Rafael has set up a Focused Speech forum and I have defended his right to do so. I'm not sure how TB wants to run his board, but I suspect he is leaning towards the Focused Speech too. In focused arenas a different kind of freedom emerges: freedom from distraction. I may be soon seek such refuge.
About fricking time.
quote:
I have had a great opportunity to present a vast amount material here that can help readers make more informed decisions. Still, I feel frustrated in that there is still so much more to present, and many fine tunings on what I have posted, sometimes rashly, as per WordWolf recent piece on posting/editing techniques. My thinking is progressing along lines of possibly doing that finishing up process on TB's site, if it turns out that his evolving ground rules will allow it.
Or, as we've been saying for years, he can make his OWN website and board and post
whatever he wants on it....
quote:
If I take this turn, I want to know how people here feel about my using their GSC handles and quoting from their posts. Like I say, my aim is to NOT antagonize.
General rule: don't mention one BOARD on another without permission,
don't mention someone who doesn't post on your board without specific explicit permission,
and make a link to another board if you're even THINKING about discussing it,
so people can see it and form their OWN opinions. That's common courtesy all over
cyberspace.
quote:
Anyway, those are some of my thoughts after yesterday's marathon, sleeping on all that was said, and then seeing this morning's posts.
My great respect for the written words in PFAL came only very recently, in 1998, and long after I had left TWI.
That's true only when one completely forgets what we've learned to date from Mike's
posts. The time Mike spent transcribing audiotapes of vpw, he likened to the
transcription of Paul's letters. He's also made mention of time supposedly
spent with him and so on....
quote:
From 1971 to his death, I kept quite a distance between me and vpw.
This from the same man who said
quote:
I happened to park next to his camper truck at the 1972 Rock of Ages. For days it was like a
football game getting around Mrs Wierwille to get to Dr with my large list of questions.
He thought it was funny and accomodated me for hours of discussion.
Then at Emporia's Advanced Class in 75 he accomodated me some more with questions,
especially at the end. My train wasn't leaving until the next day, so I and 3 or 4 others,
who also didn't have to pack and leave, hung out with him and talked heart stuff
(no Q & A this time) for a long time.
I suppose he was keeping quite a distance while asking all those questions and talking
heart stuff.
Mike's sure been around.
When he wants to claim he was an insider, he spent lots of time around vpw.
When he wants to claim he was "one of us", vpw was unable to pick him out of a lineup.
Mike is very versatile.
He is much like the famous "tall, fat, skinny little man."
quote:
I was suspicious and cautious. I was exposed to the sex scandals of TWI ten years before most others, so I had a lot of time to quietly think about it all. I saw few around me engaging in such meditation, and saw many respecting vpw in inappropriate ways. I wanted no part of it.
When I would read the collaterals I'd not transfer to my Bible's wide margin any notes until I had checked things out in other ways. Some topics were on my list of not-yet-accepted items for may years. At times I wished I could join the others and just believe everything, but I had to go my slow cautious pace. I felt it was my duty to check out all the doctrine before accepting it BECAUSE it was being so ravenously swallowed whole by so many others.
My suspicion levels varied from year to year. In my first two years it was relatively low. It went up and down several times over the decades. By 1997 my suspicion level was at it's peak, and I frequently found myself very angry at Dr and was getting close to "chucking the whole thing." It wasn't until I returned to the books in 1998 that I started thinking the way I do now. The contents of that written material, and the guidance of a wonderful believer, are what got me to change my attitude.
Based on the mutability of the printed page and his history, is this a credible account?
Up to you to decide that, but I think a proven track record of questionable authenticity
has been demonstrated...
quote:
That's the doctrinal side. Now for the practical.
From the start I was very impressed with field leadership. However, as I got close to them, I quickly started seeing that many did not measure up to the standards set in God's Word. I was reading about the negatives regarding men of God in the Bible and could see negatives in the personal lives of not a few leaders around me. I felt at the time that this may simply be a maturity thing, and expected them to change for the better. I was wrong. It got worse.
...for which I hold blameless the man who chose them out for training, and designed and
oversaw their training for four years. All of them were poor performers, but it had nothing
to do with a common education being deficient....
quote:
There is a passage in GMWD that I became VERY familiar with. It's in Chapter Six (interesting number) titled "Followers of Us." With MY bold face fonts, but with Dr's italicized fonts, the following passage can be seen:
"As people get into the truth of God’s Word, it takes time for them to jell its greatness to the point that they walk on it. They need time to mature in God’s household and in the knowledge of His Word. In doing this they are to imitate the examples set by the men and women of God who are responsible to lead them. This does not mean that we take on our leaders’ idiosyncrasies and faults. It means that as we learn principles in God’s Word, we imitate those men and women as we see them practice the truth. It is a family learning situation, a growing experience. We learn from those who have been practicing the principles of God’s Word longer than we have. In doing this we become more and more perfected in His Word. We become more and more like the Lord Jesus Christ. In turn, as God’s children, we become more and more like our Heavenly Father, for we are learning to walk in the perfection to which He has called us. That is the pattern. We imitate the lives of those whom God has set in His household as leaders and overseers. They then imitate the Lord Jesus Christ by walking faithfully on God’s Word. As all of us do this, we are imitating the source of that Word, God. Paul sets this pattern of imitation very clearly in the first letter to the Corinthians."
I applied this passage to the best of my ability in all my interactions with leadership. If people close to upper leadership had done the same then maybe things would be different now.
Since it's in print this way, it MUST have been the same way in practice. There couldn't
possibly be a discrepancy between doctrine and practice, could there?
quote:
It's not too late to apply the good doctrine we were given and throw off the bad practices we were exposed to. In doing so we who are able to do this now will set the pace for others to do it and EVENTUALLY we will be in a much better position to help those who were hurt. If we don't become Jesus Christ men and women, and rise up to HIS level and ability to handle great hurts, then our friends and relatives who were hurt do not have much of a chance.
This doctrine failed EVERYONE except me so far (and up to 7 other people.) However, if we
try it again and try harder, it will work this time!
quote:
Right now I don't see much healing taking place. Those of us who have the heart to brush off the negative factors are the only ones who will BECOME the true and effective positive factors in the lives of those who hurt.
My definition of healing, of course, includes
"holds vpw as the greatest man of God since the apostle Paul, who received revelation
at least the equal to that which Paul received, and superior to all other Christians
of the past 2 millenia, worldwide."
It also includes
"holds vpw's books as a new Bible."
My definition of "healing" is a non-standard definition.
I've been posting a lot less this year, slowly wrapping up my presentations here and moving back into private one-on-one interactions. Please remember that I was literally dragged onto this board without my consent a few years ago.
He had NO choice in the matter. Someone dragged him to the pc and held a gun on him until
he typed the messages. his family was held hostage unless he kept typing. -->
as a matter of fact, I am STILL holding his pet bunny rabbit hostage....
I haven't read most of this thread, nor will I probably ever do so.
One thing that continues to amaze me though, is for the hundreds of thousands or millions of teachers, pastors, prophets, mystics, seers, visionaries and workers that has graced the 2000 year history of christianity, is how this miniscule, minute, tiny insignificant blip on the radar screen, Victor Paul Wierwille, is the subject of such unending attention and idolatry.
My question STILL lies unanswered. What in the stinkin world is PFAL doing for YOU?
If you think you're some kind of modern Moses or something.. I don't know whether to laugh or feel sorry for you.
Nobody's gonna lead me from behind, anymore.
Let's see you get out front.
Let's see it. Get out front, show the masses what it can DO. If it REALLY works, that will sell your product far better than fifteen pages of nonsense.
Yeah boy, Mr. Hamm....If Mike hasn`t walked on water or raised someone from the dead....he has no more stinkin power than those of us who`s blessings and abundance he blythly dismisses as being from Satan...
Shoot he is all talk and finger pointing .... issuing empty threats and touting failed promises....same ole **** .... No thanks
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diazbro
Its okay for TWI and (its founding member) to violate and ignore copyright law when it suits their purposes but the moment someone does it to them they consider it a problem ! They can't have it both ways.
A recent VPW devotee posted at Gspot that
PFAL is basically "God's word" so "the laws of man" don't apply - that is copyright laws and plagiarism don't apply. But then why would TWI oppose the exhibition /redistribution of PFAL if this was truly the case ? If its "the word" and it can bless someone then why not let it be viewed the world over to promote "the accuracy of Gods word" ?
VPW stole from others and violated copyright law when he self-published his "works" and passed them off as his own. A lot of that material is in PFAL. Of course TWI profitted from sales of those books and the class itself
but morally and ethically , not to mention legally, TWI owes the original authors of those works. But they will never pay them of course.
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Catcup
Copyright issues aside,
I think the main reason TWI jumped on that website is so they wouldn't have to explain to folks they're trying to convert why they were using the pooch pornography in the Advanced Class ...
Oh, so embarassing!
And they'd have to explain why on earth a 50-60 year old man was showing pornography to minor teenagers...
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CoolWaters
The 'negative emotions' are part and parcel of having relationships that are defined by, "I am right, you are wrong. Listen to me!"
You call it that way, Mike.
I didn't say you were afraid of differences. I didn't say you were afraid of anything.
What I said is that you don't like it when people don't think like you.
It's one thing to enjoy differences...quite another to tell people they are wrong in their differences...and still quite another thing to expect people to change to your way of thinking if they want to measure up and be 'right' in your eyes
Yeah...so? What good did it do you?
See what I say above.
Yer right! How clever!
;)-->
I took PFAL once and only once...when I was 18yo...and about to have a baby.
The reason I took it once and only once is because I didn't want to have 'itching ears' and 'heap unto myself teachers' and be 'ever learning but never coming to a knowledge of the truth'.
But once through PFAL was all it took to make my thinking so crooked that I actually tried to live in that insanity for the next 26 years.
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Nottawayfer
You got it all wrong buddy. You are defending a man and his actions, AND actions you saw yourself of other leadership by saying that the Word taught was perfect. That is co-dependency. I should know because I spent many years defending that same bull.... myself because I didn't want God's ministry to be blamed. You completely forget that the fruit they produced was a result of what was in their heart. It surely wasn't God's Word or they would have exposed their wrongs and came clean about it. That would have been the respectable thing to do instead of putting a stupid saying on a grave marker to show the world that you were so humble.....Gawd!!! It makes me want to puke it was so horrid!!
I'm not so sure that you love Him. It's your pfal you love and defend. God needs no defense, nor does his Word. Therefore, why do you spend so much time defending something so fallible?
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
quote:
If we don't become Jesus Christ men and women, and rise up to HIS level and ability to handle great hurts, then our friends and relatives who were hurt do not have much of a chance.
BTW that's a quote from Mike
Grease Spot by midnight is the way I take it from you Mike!
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moony3424
BTW, they took down the site in the last few days (I was there on Fri and it was down yesterday)
system message
Banned and Locked Down!
(powerforabundantliving) has been locked down in accordance with ezboard's Terms of Use
Reason: Copyright infringement
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Catcup
We got it, Mooney. Thanks.
I wonder just how many people got to read about the porno flick in the Advanced Class while that site was up?
Wonder how they are going to 'splain that to their new folks.......
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diazbro
Oh hell yes. This would definitely require some explanation now wouldn't it ?
Also in the CF&S class there were those pics of penises and "teachings" on slang terms for genitalia and various sexual acts. Why was that in there ? Most people knew plenty of these and we were there ostensibly to learn about what God had in mind relative to sex. Not to hear sex-fiend Vic get tingly while telling us about "dirt road".
I recall an elderly woman sitting in on that class and she was thoroughly embarassed not just for herself but for everyone in the room. She was disgusted that someone would have to go so low as to show sex pics and discuss slang as a way to educate us on God's plan for physical love. I agreed with her %100. It wasn't our fault that Uncle Vic like to perv out and talk dirty.
Slight change of subject here but I recall that around 78 or so people were warned to guard their AC syllabus from others because a wayfer had been judged to be insane by a court because the person believed the content of the syllabus. The story was repeated frequently enough to get me to consider that it might be one of the many Way urban myths but whatever it was clear that TWI leaders didn't want people to be talking about what they had been teaching in the AC.
Also TWI clearly wants an income stream from PFAL or any class it has rights to. Free distribution and exhibition of the material deprives them of money. That they no longer support PFAL as their premier educational tool is beside the point. Its part of the Way holdings so they want to get paid whenever its shown.
But I do feel that the copyright issues draw out that TWI are major hypocrites. They want a site shutdown since they own the copyright but that didn't stop them from vanity publishing VPW's stolen works (that was the only way he could get published). Next time some VPW devotee starts saying copyrights don't matter then I'll direct them to this thread so they can see that to TWI copyrights most certainly do matter though apparently only only when it serves the interests of TWI.
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
"Isn't that just be you ti full.."
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ChasUFarley
Isn't there some web site that you can go to and pull up old web sites that are no longer "live"?
I believe Igotout or one of other resident geeks know what I'm talking about. You can do a search on "Waydale" and come up with the ol' waydale.com site....
Couldn't that work in this case?
Hmmmmmmmmmmm?
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rascal
Woah, copy right infringement...
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
HIYA MOONY!!!
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TOMMYZ
Belle,
Could you e-mail me the next time you find a site like that again ? I had some friends who wanted to see it but now it's too late.
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coolchef1248 @adelphia.net
hey mike
if you were sitting quietly when you knew there were wrong sex things going on and didn't screech that to the highst mountain you are as guilty as those who were doing it
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coolchef1248 @adelphia.net
by the way
i am no prude by any means but cf& sex was digusting! and i so looked fowarad to it
it was embarrassing
how did it teach me to love and respect my spouse better than i was?
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GrouchoMarxJr
CF&S...Another attempt by Vic to educate us in the "hole" of the werd...and what a sham the "class" was...it was touted as the "greatest teaching" on the subject anywhere on planet earth...and in reality, the class was wretched...
Grifter Vic lays out a short biology lesson that most 6th graders get (only much better), then he goes off reading a lot of stuff from proverbs regarding the "virtuous woman"...remember all that stuff?...Put her on a pedastel?...and all the while, he was holding Dorthea up as the woman he adored...he was bumpin' uglies with young girls in the motorcoach...HYPOCRITE! In public, he used his wife as a "showpiece" of sorts...but it was all to make HIM look good...in private, he abused her terribly.
...and now this adulterous cornfield grifter is gonna sit there and teach us all about the Christian family...and also about SEX??? Like he knew anything about it...righhhhht...and lets not forget that this was the class where his now infamous "every woman in the kingdom belongs to the king" line came from...and of course, the wink, wink, nudge, nudge when it came to the subject of abortions...
...and yeah, Vic DID get a twinkle in his eye when he "shared" with us all those nasty dirty words...but of course, he was doing it for our benefit...it isn't every day that you can find a middle aged, conservative, preacher from Ohio...that is willing to teach a bunch of 20 year old hippies the latest "street jargon" to keep us on our guard...
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WordWolf
He had NO choice in the matter. Someone dragged him to the pc and held a gun on him until
he typed the messages. his family was held hostage unless he kept typing.
-->
And yet, outside the political forum, he seems to be in the middle of most of them.
Coincidence? Offensive content? Offensive style? All of the above?
That will last until she either agrees pfal is the new Bible (agreeing with Mike),
or until Mike insults her too (if she doesn't agree pfal is the new Bible.)
It WAS...
Mike had already posted there some time ago. His famous "last lost" subject was up there.
Of course, that's academic now, since twi sent their attack dogs after the board.
And has "thanked him" by disregarding the rules of conduct he's asked to follow,
like not posting his Doctrine outside the Doctrine forum.
About fricking time.
Or, as we've been saying for years, he can make his OWN website and board and post
whatever he wants on it....
General rule: don't mention one BOARD on another without permission,
don't mention someone who doesn't post on your board without specific explicit permission,
and make a link to another board if you're even THINKING about discussing it,
so people can see it and form their OWN opinions. That's common courtesy all over
cyberspace.
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WordWolf
That's true only when one completely forgets what we've learned to date from Mike's
posts. The time Mike spent transcribing audiotapes of vpw, he likened to the
transcription of Paul's letters. He's also made mention of time supposedly
spent with him and so on....
This from the same man who said
I suppose he was keeping quite a distance while asking all those questions and talking
heart stuff.
Mike's sure been around.
When he wants to claim he was an insider, he spent lots of time around vpw.
When he wants to claim he was "one of us", vpw was unable to pick him out of a lineup.
Mike is very versatile.
He is much like the famous "tall, fat, skinny little man."
Based on the mutability of the printed page and his history, is this a credible account?
Up to you to decide that, but I think a proven track record of questionable authenticity
has been demonstrated...
...for which I hold blameless the man who chose them out for training, and designed and
oversaw their training for four years. All of them were poor performers, but it had nothing
to do with a common education being deficient....
Since it's in print this way, it MUST have been the same way in practice. There couldn't
possibly be a discrepancy between doctrine and practice, could there?
This doctrine failed EVERYONE except me so far (and up to 7 other people.) However, if we
try it again and try harder, it will work this time!
My definition of healing, of course, includes
"holds vpw as the greatest man of God since the apostle Paul, who received revelation
at least the equal to that which Paul received, and superior to all other Christians
of the past 2 millenia, worldwide."
It also includes
"holds vpw's books as a new Bible."
My definition of "healing" is a non-standard definition.
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alfakat
as a matter of fact, I am STILL holding his pet bunny rabbit hostage....
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vickles
Remember, this is the guy who states that when Jesus Christ returns he will be holding the Power For Abundant Living Book!!!!
And yes folks he really believes this ****...
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mstar1
I haven't read most of this thread, nor will I probably ever do so.
One thing that continues to amaze me though, is for the hundreds of thousands or millions of teachers, pastors, prophets, mystics, seers, visionaries and workers that has graced the 2000 year history of christianity, is how this miniscule, minute, tiny insignificant blip on the radar screen, Victor Paul Wierwille, is the subject of such unending attention and idolatry.
God, read somebody else once in awhile.
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Ham
Fifteen pages, holy cow..
Mike.
My question STILL lies unanswered. What in the stinkin world is PFAL doing for YOU?
If you think you're some kind of modern Moses or something.. I don't know whether to laugh or feel sorry for you.
Nobody's gonna lead me from behind, anymore.
Let's see you get out front.
Let's see it. Get out front, show the masses what it can DO. If it REALLY works, that will sell your product far better than fifteen pages of nonsense.
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Ham
What would satisfy me? Well, lets see you "walk on water", for starters.
Let me see the miraculous.
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rascal
Yeah boy, Mr. Hamm....If Mike hasn`t walked on water or raised someone from the dead....he has no more stinkin power than those of us who`s blessings and abundance he blythly dismisses as being from Satan...
Shoot he is all talk and finger pointing .... issuing empty threats and touting failed promises....same ole **** .... No thanks
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