1 Kings 15:5 Because David did that which was right in the eyes of the LORD, and turned not aside from any thing that he commanded him all the days of his life, save only in the matter of Uriah the Hittite.
This is not the same as VPW.
Bravo, CM! That settles that question.
David never completely lived it down, either.
Even Matthew 1 makes a passing reference to Uriah when it gets to David.
If they had mastered the teaching, instead of the social scene like most of us (me included) did, then they would have been able to thwart the incidents, or at least be less hurt by them.
If only they had just mastered the class?!!!
Just another way to lay blame on the one who was victimized, and deflect responsibility away from your idol.
And how dare you even assume we were in it for the "social scene" like you admittedly were. Please don't "include" me or my sister in that accusation. You do not know her and you do not know me, nor the depth of and motivations for our involvement.
And you feel "If they had read the Scheoheit article they might have pointed their hurt in God's direction and gotten healed." You assume way too much.
My sister had her life ruined by your idol and left TWI before Schoenheit ever even knew enough of the Word of God to attempt to write that article.
And I am the WRONG PERSON for you to throw Schoenheit's work in MY face. I don't think he would appreciate your using his work to make points he would never support.
Catcup is right you are over the line trying to speak for another once again, Im asking you to NOT speak for Schoenhiet , the fact is they have changed their position on many of the teachings they have done within their own ministry and those they taught while in TWI.
It sounds like you need a MOG authority to make your point... very twi like in my opinion. uh let me put it another way YOUR STILL looking to the 'social scene" for approval. why eles would you need to use Schoenheit? in your mind it must carry some type of authority or approval from the masses.
I didnt say it didnt IT STILL DOES!
come on you can not have it both ways USE a "mog" name to prove your point then claiming it is wrong to be in for the "social scene". How can you say it isnt about what the man said or did in life yet use the fame of being a clergy in the way as some type of authority? sounds rather double minded to me.
Less hurt if they mastered the class?????? The wow I was speaking of was thrown out of twi LONG before she had a chance to do much mastery BY vp....
So your saying Mike, that at 17, she shouldda just *renewed* her mind and *done* the nasty old man in order to have the opportunity and privelege of continuing to have access to pfal, fellowship in God`s ministry, her family.....after all, it was such a pittance to pay...she really should have been wiser.
One fellowship working strictly the materials and the class? Now isn’t that special! So special that I get tired of hearing it from numerous groups that consider themselves the keepers of the truth. Problem is that even their own teachings condemn themselves. Many condemn the victims of the sexual abuse, they claim they are all liars. Or, they find some cheap way to excuse away or minimize the sins.
The very teaching from their great leader includes that they rightly divide the word of truth, their very own great one commanded they get to the place they quit quoting him. Yet they worship at the alter of a man and refuse to “make it their ownâ€, they never arrive to the place that they stand before God Almighty on their own two feet with what they know and what they do.
It would be better to have a mill stone tired about their necks and they were tossed into a pond, rather than to offend a little one. But, they insist on providing an introduction to God that includes a man that sexually abused how many? How many will take their precious class and then find out who the teacher really was, not the man they present and then this innocent searching individual will toss out all they present?
Then they run to David, who sinned this way once that is documented, written in stone. But they ignore that David didn’t make this habitual, David also didn’t teach many in his inner circle that it is no different than a finger in an ear! David’s mighty men were never taught that what he did was fine and that he crossed the line when he had Uriah killed. David also knew for the sin he had done Judah would be at war all of his days. David sinned, when confronted he repented. I am sure that the mighty men were asked for forgiveness and that the sin wasn’t swept under the carpet.
Had David acted the way VP did, the mighty men never would have been. VP would have separated those that practiced the same sin and disposed of any that opposed. Then he would have covered his tracks by assassinating their character.
They are disciples of Victor and they separate not by the word of God. “What say you about Victor†is their line of division. They are unable to plant their feet and boldly say “Thus saith the Lordâ€!
I often wonder about those that go to the lord and claim all the great things they have done in his name, only for him to say I know you not. Or as the spirit said: Jesus I know and Paul I have heard of; but who are you? So much time and energy spent on defending the despicable and not on the truth.
Mike, you stated that you study with blinders on and you laud the word of vee pee over the word of GOD. For this reason alone you should keep your mouth shut and your fingers still. You know nothing. You're missing the whole lesson in any section of scripture by keeping those blinders on. The bad stuff is there for a reason. God doesn't say to only study the "good parts" of everything He had recorded.
It's comical that you think you are the only person in the whole world (vee pee included) that understands what you call the depth of PFAL. Calling PFAL the word of God and then saying that the guy who plagarized works and taught that plagarism and twisted scriptures doesn't even know the depths of what he taught is downright psychotic. You're scary, man. Very scary.
We don't have to defend ourselves or counter your words for those lurking. I'm sure you make those lurkers laugh and wonder what the he11 kind of a group could raise someone like you. Maybe your words cause them to consider if their thinking is as effed up as yours obviously is.
You mis-state my position on blinders. Read it again, please. When God Himself brings up a negative in His Word, I pay attention to it. When people bring up negatives, especially in a public forum, I recognize the great possibility that only part of the story is being presented, and I apply the advice of Plp. 4:8 that I quoted. When someone comes to me privately for help, I then pay great attention to both their complaint and God's Word. If they want help but not the Word, then I must back off.
You also mis-state other things in my position. I do NOT think I'm "the only person in the whole world" who understands PFAL. You missed my post yesterday where I said I have NOT mastered PFAL, I'm only diligently attempting to do that. With God's help I will succeed, but I'm not there yet.
I think you are totally right in your assertion that taking more time before posting filters out unnecessary venom from being injected into the mix. Also, taking more time to post would have helped Belle here in not making the mistakes I just pointed out. She probably wrote the above before even encountering the rest of the story. I do believe that my FELLOWSHIP is the only one in the world focusing exclusively on PFAL. I continue to search for more.
I am very unhappy that things went the way they did in the ministry and that many grads did bad things. I wish Dr had been the man he knew to be, but that's to late. It's not too late for us living grads, though, to get it right.
I don't think I have it all right, and neither do you folks. I don't think you are helping the victims you think you are helping by your rejection of PFAL. These are very delicate issues, and if I were in your shoes I might be rejecting PFAL even more than you do now.
Somehow, I have been able to come back to PFAL, and finally brush off the hurts that blockaded me from the light God had put into written form there. Because I see God's hand on my life in this matter, stretching back long before I ever even heard of PFAL, I clearly feel it's my duty in life to help others come back and see this light. I do not wish to antagonize anyone who is in a hurtful position regarding these matters.
I've been posting a lot less this year, slowly wrapping up my presentations here and moving back into private one-on-one interactions. Please remember that I was literally dragged onto this board without my consent a few years ago. I don't like all the huge confrontations that go on. Lorna Dune's long post yesterday reminded me of how wonderfully we all COULD be interacting.
The topic of this thread is the proPFAL website that is up and running, and I may soon be shifting my focus and posting there. I feel there is still unfinished business here, though, but my time and energy are less these days for the knock down drag out affairs I seem to often find myself in here.
We've several times discussed the differences between Free Speech forums and Focused Speech forums. It seems that because of the vast confusion and many perplexing situations surrounding twenty years of TWI activities, and the over-controled speech traditions from which we came, this board was set up to allow just about any kind of legal speech, and I think rightly so. This board is so free in what it allows to be posted the EVEN I am allowed to be here. I realize I'm a ringer here, and have often expressed my thanks to Pawtucket for his stand on such freedom of expression.
Rafael has set up a Focused Speech forum and I have defended his right to do so. I'm not sure how TB wants to run his board, but I suspect he is leaning towards the Focused Speech too. In focused arenas a different kind of freedom emerges: freedom from distraction. I may be soon seek such refuge.
I have had a great opportunity to present a vast amount material here that can help readers make more informed decisions. Still, I feel frustrated in that there is still so much more to present, and many fine tunings on what I have posted, sometimes rashly, as per WordWolf recent piece on posting/editing techniques. My thinking is progressing along lines of possibly doing that finishing up process on TB's site, if it turns out that his evolving ground rules will allow it.
If I take this turn, I want to know how people here feel about my using their GSC handles and quoting from their posts. Like I say, my aim is to NOT antagonize.
Anyway, those are some of my thoughts after yesterday's marathon, sleeping on all that was said, and then seeing this morning's posts.
I do deliberately put on biblically based blinders:
Plp. 4:8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.
There are times and places, not usually public though, where sorting through sin is necessary. It's GOOD to minimize that.
When I read Balaam's prophecy I do NOT usually think of his dishonesty, but rather the One he saw.
When I read Paul's epistles I usually think NOT of his deprogramming techniques that included death.
When I read David's Psalms I usually think NOT of his sins which included murder.
Mike, that’s missing the points being made. That’s what I’m talking about. You are missing the lessons in these stories by putting your blinders on. This is how you get into trouble justifying David’s sin and go off into private interpretation world.
quote:
You may be sure of some facts, but are you willing to bet your life and rewards and family on the accuracy of your deduction?
Are YOU, Mike? You’re the one reading with blinders on and lauding vee pee over God.
quote:
That man did not know the ACCURACY of the scriptures in his heart. Maybe in his mouth, but they no longer impress me. NOT ONE leader did what Dr told them to do. NOT ONE mastered PFAL. Many can parrot KJV, but none mastered the English revelations Dr and his editors put into writing. Not even Dr.
I didn’t mis-quote you, Mike, I just didn’t want to have to re-read your mindless drivel. You are implying here that you, and you alone, have the accuracy of the scriptures and the vee pee breathed word. Pretty d@mn arrogant, doncha think? Pride goeth before a fall…..
And, BTW, I type my responses in Word before copy and pasting them into a thread. That way I can spell check, grammar check and get some of the anger out of my posts. I would suggest the same for you, especially since it makes one question the integrity of your words when you constantly change them and then accuse people of mis-representing what you’ve said.
I don't feel like looking for the article, scanning it, correcting scanning errors and all that. It's not necessary.
Then don't refer to it. It IS necessary given your habit of mis-representation and private interpretation. I didn't get involved till the 90's so I don't have access to the same material you do.
Do you need a Bible verse to see these obvious things? I don't. They are CLEARLY implied. I'd need verses to say they did NOT happen before I'd even consider that. We were taught to think this way in the Orientalisms class. Unless it clearly stated otherwise, we can assume that Oriental customs were followed. Well this is much more universal than oriental customs; this is Human customs.
CLEARLY implied???? Now that's some scary principle to follow. Mike, I think if you really worshipped God, and NOT PFAL, then you wouldn't need to see verses that it did NOT happen before you believed it. You put wayyyy too much in to this without seeing what IS written. I rely on the black and white before I would imply anything. Geez....
pfal is just wrong period. There are just out and out lies in it. Twisted scripture by a twisted man. I guess some that promote it have the same twisted view on life as vp.
pfal was used as a tool to enslave people. To make them believe that this twisted man was the mog and the first one since the first century. vp may not have known when he first started what was going to happen with twi.
As it grew he promoted it even more with the int. and adv. classes and way corps. He was set to start his evil ways.
Catcup's sister was one of hundereds if not thousands "used" by twi and then thrown out on the street like a piece of trash. There is a way they justified it in their minds. I don't know how they did it, but they did.
To promote pafal is just plain sick. It was and end to a means for a twisted old dirty man and eventuly men that did not care one lick about your lives.
My great respect for the written words in PFAL came only very recently, in 1998, and long after I had left TWI. From 1971 to his death, I kept quite a distance between me and vpw. I was suspicious and cautious. I was exposed to the sex scandals of TWI ten years before most others, so I had a lot of time to quietly think about it all. I saw few around me engaging in such meditation, and saw many respecting vpw in inappropriate ways. I wanted no part of it.
When I would read the collaterals I'd not transfer to my Bible's wide margin any notes until I had checked things out in other ways. Some topics were on my list of not-yet-accepted items for may years. At times I wished I could join the others and just believe everything, but I had to go my slow cautious pace. I felt it was my duty to check out all the doctrine before accepting it BECAUSE it was being so ravenously swallowed whole by so many others.
My suspicion levels varied from year to year. In my first two years it was relatively low. It went up and down several times over the decades. By 1997 my suspicion level was at it's peak, and I frequently found myself very angry at Dr and was getting close to "chucking the whole thing." It wasn't until I returned to the books in 1998 that I started thinking the way I do now. The contents of that written material, and the guidance of a wonderful believer, are what got me to change my attitude.
That's the doctrinal side. Now for the practical.
From the start I was very impressed with field leadership. However, as I got close to them, I quickly started seeing that many did not measure up to the standards set in God's Word. I was reading about the negatives regarding men of God in the Bible and could see negatives in the personal lives of not a few leaders around me. I felt at the time that this may simply be a maturity thing, and expected them to change for the better. I was wrong. It got worse.
There is a passage in GMWD that I became VERY familiar with. It's in Chapter Six (interesting number) titled "Followers of Us." With MY bold face fonts, but with Dr's italicized fonts, the following passage can be seen:
"As people get into the truth of God’s Word, it takes time for them to jell its greatness to the point that they walk on it. They need time to mature in God’s household and in the knowledge of His Word. In doing this they are to imitate the examples set by the men and women of God who are responsible to lead them. This does not mean that we take on our leaders’ idiosyncrasies and faults. It means that as we learn principles in God’s Word, we imitate those men and women as we see them practice the truth. It is a family learning situation, a growing experience. We learn from those who have been practicing the principles of God’s Word longer than we have. In doing this we become more and more perfected in His Word. We become more and more like the Lord Jesus Christ. In turn, as God’s children, we become more and more like our Heavenly Father, for we are learning to walk in the perfection to which He has called us. That is the pattern. We imitate the lives of those whom God has set in His household as leaders and overseers. They then imitate the Lord Jesus Christ by walking faithfully on God’s Word. As all of us do this, we are imitating the source of that Word, God. Paul sets this pattern of imitation very clearly in the first letter to the Corinthians."
I applied this passage to the best of my ability in all my interactions with leadership. If people close to upper leadership had done the same then maybe things would be different now.
It's not too late to apply the good doctrine we were given and throw off the bad practices we were exposed to. In doing so we who are able to do this now will set the pace for others to do it and EVENTUALLY we will be in a much better position to help those who were hurt. If we don't become Jesus Christ men and women, and rise up to HIS level and ability to handle great hurts, then our friends and relatives who were hurt do not have much of a chance.
Right now I don't see much healing taking place. Those of us who have the heart to brush off the negative factors are the only ones who will BECOME the true and effective positive factors in the lives of those who hurt.
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WordWolf
I find it useful to think before opening the window, then thinking before I type,
and thinking as I compose the post. Few cheapshots make it past that stage.
Sometimes I do a quick glance for major errors as well, before hitting "save".
All of this helps prevent rash posting, which also lowers the hostility level of
posts.
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WordWolf
Bravo, CM! That settles that question.
David never completely lived it down, either.
Even Matthew 1 makes a passing reference to Uriah when it gets to David.
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Catcup
If only they had just mastered the class?!!!
Just another way to lay blame on the one who was victimized, and deflect responsibility away from your idol.
And how dare you even assume we were in it for the "social scene" like you admittedly were. Please don't "include" me or my sister in that accusation. You do not know her and you do not know me, nor the depth of and motivations for our involvement.
And you feel "If they had read the Scheoheit article they might have pointed their hurt in God's direction and gotten healed." You assume way too much.
My sister had her life ruined by your idol and left TWI before Schoenheit ever even knew enough of the Word of God to attempt to write that article.
And I am the WRONG PERSON for you to throw Schoenheit's work in MY face. I don't think he would appreciate your using his work to make points he would never support.
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mj412
Mike
Catcup is right you are over the line trying to speak for another once again, Im asking you to NOT speak for Schoenhiet , the fact is they have changed their position on many of the teachings they have done within their own ministry and those they taught while in TWI.
It sounds like you need a MOG authority to make your point... very twi like in my opinion. uh let me put it another way YOUR STILL looking to the 'social scene" for approval. why eles would you need to use Schoenheit? in your mind it must carry some type of authority or approval from the masses.
I didnt say it didnt IT STILL DOES!
come on you can not have it both ways USE a "mog" name to prove your point then claiming it is wrong to be in for the "social scene". How can you say it isnt about what the man said or did in life yet use the fame of being a clergy in the way as some type of authority? sounds rather double minded to me.
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rascal
Less hurt if they mastered the class?????? The wow I was speaking of was thrown out of twi LONG before she had a chance to do much mastery BY vp....
So your saying Mike, that at 17, she shouldda just *renewed* her mind and *done* the nasty old man in order to have the opportunity and privelege of continuing to have access to pfal, fellowship in God`s ministry, her family.....after all, it was such a pittance to pay...she really should have been wiser.
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wingnut
One fellowship working strictly the materials and the class? Now isn’t that special! So special that I get tired of hearing it from numerous groups that consider themselves the keepers of the truth. Problem is that even their own teachings condemn themselves. Many condemn the victims of the sexual abuse, they claim they are all liars. Or, they find some cheap way to excuse away or minimize the sins.
The very teaching from their great leader includes that they rightly divide the word of truth, their very own great one commanded they get to the place they quit quoting him. Yet they worship at the alter of a man and refuse to “make it their ownâ€, they never arrive to the place that they stand before God Almighty on their own two feet with what they know and what they do.
It would be better to have a mill stone tired about their necks and they were tossed into a pond, rather than to offend a little one. But, they insist on providing an introduction to God that includes a man that sexually abused how many? How many will take their precious class and then find out who the teacher really was, not the man they present and then this innocent searching individual will toss out all they present?
Then they run to David, who sinned this way once that is documented, written in stone. But they ignore that David didn’t make this habitual, David also didn’t teach many in his inner circle that it is no different than a finger in an ear! David’s mighty men were never taught that what he did was fine and that he crossed the line when he had Uriah killed. David also knew for the sin he had done Judah would be at war all of his days. David sinned, when confronted he repented. I am sure that the mighty men were asked for forgiveness and that the sin wasn’t swept under the carpet.
Had David acted the way VP did, the mighty men never would have been. VP would have separated those that practiced the same sin and disposed of any that opposed. Then he would have covered his tracks by assassinating their character.
They are disciples of Victor and they separate not by the word of God. “What say you about Victor†is their line of division. They are unable to plant their feet and boldly say “Thus saith the Lordâ€!
I often wonder about those that go to the lord and claim all the great things they have done in his name, only for him to say I know you not. Or as the spirit said: Jesus I know and Paul I have heard of; but who are you? So much time and energy spent on defending the despicable and not on the truth.
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Belle
Mike, you stated that you study with blinders on and you laud the word of vee pee over the word of GOD. For this reason alone you should keep your mouth shut and your fingers still. You know nothing. You're missing the whole lesson in any section of scripture by keeping those blinders on. The bad stuff is there for a reason. God doesn't say to only study the "good parts" of everything He had recorded.
It's comical that you think you are the only person in the whole world (vee pee included) that understands what you call the depth of PFAL. Calling PFAL the word of God and then saying that the guy who plagarized works and taught that plagarism and twisted scriptures doesn't even know the depths of what he taught is downright psychotic. You're scary, man. Very scary.
We don't have to defend ourselves or counter your words for those lurking. I'm sure you make those lurkers laugh and wonder what the he11 kind of a group could raise someone like you. Maybe your words cause them to consider if their thinking is as effed up as yours obviously is.
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Mike
Belle,
You mis-state my position on blinders. Read it again, please. When God Himself brings up a negative in His Word, I pay attention to it. When people bring up negatives, especially in a public forum, I recognize the great possibility that only part of the story is being presented, and I apply the advice of Plp. 4:8 that I quoted. When someone comes to me privately for help, I then pay great attention to both their complaint and God's Word. If they want help but not the Word, then I must back off.
You also mis-state other things in my position. I do NOT think I'm "the only person in the whole world" who understands PFAL. You missed my post yesterday where I said I have NOT mastered PFAL, I'm only diligently attempting to do that. With God's help I will succeed, but I'm not there yet.
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Mike
WordWolf,
I think you are totally right in your assertion that taking more time before posting filters out unnecessary venom from being injected into the mix. Also, taking more time to post would have helped Belle here in not making the mistakes I just pointed out. She probably wrote the above before even encountering the rest of the story. I do believe that my FELLOWSHIP is the only one in the world focusing exclusively on PFAL. I continue to search for more.
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Mike
rascal and Catcup,
I am very unhappy that things went the way they did in the ministry and that many grads did bad things. I wish Dr had been the man he knew to be, but that's to late. It's not too late for us living grads, though, to get it right.
I don't think I have it all right, and neither do you folks. I don't think you are helping the victims you think you are helping by your rejection of PFAL. These are very delicate issues, and if I were in your shoes I might be rejecting PFAL even more than you do now.
Somehow, I have been able to come back to PFAL, and finally brush off the hurts that blockaded me from the light God had put into written form there. Because I see God's hand on my life in this matter, stretching back long before I ever even heard of PFAL, I clearly feel it's my duty in life to help others come back and see this light. I do not wish to antagonize anyone who is in a hurtful position regarding these matters.
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Mike
To everyone,
I've been posting a lot less this year, slowly wrapping up my presentations here and moving back into private one-on-one interactions. Please remember that I was literally dragged onto this board without my consent a few years ago. I don't like all the huge confrontations that go on. Lorna Dune's long post yesterday reminded me of how wonderfully we all COULD be interacting.
The topic of this thread is the proPFAL website that is up and running, and I may soon be shifting my focus and posting there. I feel there is still unfinished business here, though, but my time and energy are less these days for the knock down drag out affairs I seem to often find myself in here.
We've several times discussed the differences between Free Speech forums and Focused Speech forums. It seems that because of the vast confusion and many perplexing situations surrounding twenty years of TWI activities, and the over-controled speech traditions from which we came, this board was set up to allow just about any kind of legal speech, and I think rightly so. This board is so free in what it allows to be posted the EVEN I am allowed to be here. I realize I'm a ringer here, and have often expressed my thanks to Pawtucket for his stand on such freedom of expression.
Rafael has set up a Focused Speech forum and I have defended his right to do so. I'm not sure how TB wants to run his board, but I suspect he is leaning towards the Focused Speech too. In focused arenas a different kind of freedom emerges: freedom from distraction. I may be soon seek such refuge.
I have had a great opportunity to present a vast amount material here that can help readers make more informed decisions. Still, I feel frustrated in that there is still so much more to present, and many fine tunings on what I have posted, sometimes rashly, as per WordWolf recent piece on posting/editing techniques. My thinking is progressing along lines of possibly doing that finishing up process on TB's site, if it turns out that his evolving ground rules will allow it.
If I take this turn, I want to know how people here feel about my using their GSC handles and quoting from their posts. Like I say, my aim is to NOT antagonize.
Anyway, those are some of my thoughts after yesterday's marathon, sleeping on all that was said, and then seeing this morning's posts.
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rascal
Keep my damn handle OUTTA your posts ... you have proven repeatedly that you cannot be trusted to accuratly represent ANYONE elses pov.
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Mike
rascal,
Don't you really mean to say "Keep my handle OUTTA your damn posts." ???
;)-->
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wingnut
Well from the chopped-liver gallery. only use quotes and handles you have been given direct personal permission from.
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Catcup
Mike, it wasn't some "grad" who hurt my sister.
It was the man you so revere and worship.
There is no way you can justify your worship of this man without being totally offensive to thinking and caring people everywhere.
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Pirate1974
There is no way, but he won't stop trying.
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Belle
Mike, that’s missing the points being made. That’s what I’m talking about. You are missing the lessons in these stories by putting your blinders on. This is how you get into trouble justifying David’s sin and go off into private interpretation world.
Are YOU, Mike? You’re the one reading with blinders on and lauding vee pee over God.
I didn’t mis-quote you, Mike, I just didn’t want to have to re-read your mindless drivel. You are implying here that you, and you alone, have the accuracy of the scriptures and the vee pee breathed word. Pretty d@mn arrogant, doncha think? Pride goeth before a fall…..
And, BTW, I type my responses in Word before copy and pasting them into a thread. That way I can spell check, grammar check and get some of the anger out of my posts. I would suggest the same for you, especially since it makes one question the integrity of your words when you constantly change them and then accuse people of mis-representing what you’ve said.
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Belle
Then don't refer to it. It IS necessary given your habit of mis-representation and private interpretation. I didn't get involved till the 90's so I don't have access to the same material you do.
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Nottawayfer
Quote by Mike:
CLEARLY implied???? Now that's some scary principle to follow.
Mike, I think if you really worshipped God, and NOT PFAL, then you wouldn't need to see verses that it did NOT happen before you believed it. You put wayyyy too much in to this without seeing what IS written. I rely on the black and white before I would imply anything. Geez....
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coolchef1248 @adelphia.net
mike
have you ever lied down on a nice couch and talked to a nice man for an hour?
i think you need to! maybe most of us here would be glad to chip in for a few sessions for you
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justloafing
pfal is just wrong period. There are just out and out lies in it. Twisted scripture by a twisted man. I guess some that promote it have the same twisted view on life as vp.
pfal was used as a tool to enslave people. To make them believe that this twisted man was the mog and the first one since the first century. vp may not have known when he first started what was going to happen with twi.
As it grew he promoted it even more with the int. and adv. classes and way corps. He was set to start his evil ways.
Catcup's sister was one of hundereds if not thousands "used" by twi and then thrown out on the street like a piece of trash. There is a way they justified it in their minds. I don't know how they did it, but they did.
To promote pafal is just plain sick. It was and end to a means for a twisted old dirty man and eventuly men that did not care one lick about your lives.
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Mike
Belle,
My great respect for the written words in PFAL came only very recently, in 1998, and long after I had left TWI. From 1971 to his death, I kept quite a distance between me and vpw. I was suspicious and cautious. I was exposed to the sex scandals of TWI ten years before most others, so I had a lot of time to quietly think about it all. I saw few around me engaging in such meditation, and saw many respecting vpw in inappropriate ways. I wanted no part of it.
When I would read the collaterals I'd not transfer to my Bible's wide margin any notes until I had checked things out in other ways. Some topics were on my list of not-yet-accepted items for may years. At times I wished I could join the others and just believe everything, but I had to go my slow cautious pace. I felt it was my duty to check out all the doctrine before accepting it BECAUSE it was being so ravenously swallowed whole by so many others.
My suspicion levels varied from year to year. In my first two years it was relatively low. It went up and down several times over the decades. By 1997 my suspicion level was at it's peak, and I frequently found myself very angry at Dr and was getting close to "chucking the whole thing." It wasn't until I returned to the books in 1998 that I started thinking the way I do now. The contents of that written material, and the guidance of a wonderful believer, are what got me to change my attitude.
That's the doctrinal side. Now for the practical.
From the start I was very impressed with field leadership. However, as I got close to them, I quickly started seeing that many did not measure up to the standards set in God's Word. I was reading about the negatives regarding men of God in the Bible and could see negatives in the personal lives of not a few leaders around me. I felt at the time that this may simply be a maturity thing, and expected them to change for the better. I was wrong. It got worse.
There is a passage in GMWD that I became VERY familiar with. It's in Chapter Six (interesting number) titled "Followers of Us." With MY bold face fonts, but with Dr's italicized fonts, the following passage can be seen:
"As people get into the truth of God’s Word, it takes time for them to jell its greatness to the point that they walk on it. They need time to mature in God’s household and in the knowledge of His Word. In doing this they are to imitate the examples set by the men and women of God who are responsible to lead them. This does not mean that we take on our leaders’ idiosyncrasies and faults. It means that as we learn principles in God’s Word, we imitate those men and women as we see them practice the truth. It is a family learning situation, a growing experience. We learn from those who have been practicing the principles of God’s Word longer than we have. In doing this we become more and more perfected in His Word. We become more and more like the Lord Jesus Christ. In turn, as God’s children, we become more and more like our Heavenly Father, for we are learning to walk in the perfection to which He has called us. That is the pattern. We imitate the lives of those whom God has set in His household as leaders and overseers. They then imitate the Lord Jesus Christ by walking faithfully on God’s Word. As all of us do this, we are imitating the source of that Word, God. Paul sets this pattern of imitation very clearly in the first letter to the Corinthians."
I applied this passage to the best of my ability in all my interactions with leadership. If people close to upper leadership had done the same then maybe things would be different now.
It's not too late to apply the good doctrine we were given and throw off the bad practices we were exposed to. In doing so we who are able to do this now will set the pace for others to do it and EVENTUALLY we will be in a much better position to help those who were hurt. If we don't become Jesus Christ men and women, and rise up to HIS level and ability to handle great hurts, then our friends and relatives who were hurt do not have much of a chance.
Right now I don't see much healing taking place. Those of us who have the heart to brush off the negative factors are the only ones who will BECOME the true and effective positive factors in the lives of those who hurt.
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
Mike
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Mike
Song,
Is that a "hello" wave or a "good-bye" wave?
Actualy I think I know which it is.
;)-->
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