Bonnie has a close friend that is a mechanic who recently opened his own dealership, we trust him. We tell him how much we can spend and what we need the car to do, and he will bring stuff back from the auctions. Often when looking at his lot, he will tell us: "No, you dont want that car that model has X wrong with it, ...".
Also the value of taking a car in to a mechanic once a year for a 100 point check-up, just can not be over-stated. I would much rather spend $500 on each car, each year on schedule instead of having a car break-down unexpectedly.
I tore-up my first couple vehicles, and our children haven done about the same. I dont know your children, but generally I would recommend that they get something really cheap and simple. Knowing that in all likelihood they are going to rip-out the underside while off-roading, or hit a curb too hard and snap some axles, or whatever. Some people need to go through a couple vehicles before they finally settle down and make it worth while to buy cars based upon resale value and mileage.
Unless of course your children are wise, mature and take really good care of their things. [Ours dont].
15 or so years ago i bought an old clinker volvo for my oldest son. he drove it for a few years. we he left for the navy he gave it to his kid brother who also drove it for a few years. when he left home he gave it to his kid brother twins who drove it for a year or so befor they left for the army and marines. it had something like 500 tho. mile on it with very little trouble
- once determined what you want (reliable transport, not too dorky, price range, payment options etc.) AVOID USED CAR LOTS if possible, SHOP OWNER SALES VEHICLES.
- if/when you find a car you're interested in, take it to a mechanic you trust and have him look at it. This can give you good info on the real state of the car and possibly things that may need attention sometime real soon (like right after you hand over the dough...lol)
It can be a negotiating tool (and should be) if there really is something that needs attention.
- try not to be in a super rush to buy, if possible, so you can look and test a bit. (Harder to do than say.)
Reid's Journey:
1st car was a $3200 red sun-roofed stick-shifted something or other...from a snake-oil peddling car dealer. Had to have it. Never mind it didn't have A/C...
"Mom, you said transportation was most important."
"Reid, we live in frickin' Florida, the hottest place in the country most often...it's hot here when it's cold."
"We got him down to $2700..."
"Reid, the guy bought the car for 1800 and washed it - the rest is mark up he's not a pal. Take it to the mechanic and see what he says."
Well, A/C cost a grand, and the CV boots need replacing, never mind the paint job.
Hey! but the mechanic has a humdinger he's willing to let go for $1,500...a little Nissan last forever ain't never gonna die pick-up truck....and it was a good deal, well cared for, good A/C etc. It was a deal, except when Reid went to get it, he sold it to a girlfriend.
Next...Reid found an individual, the only owner of a 93 Acura Integra who kept meticulous records of his very well cared for vehicle.
It's garnet paint job is good, the engine and tires are great, interior nice...lots of life left. Took it to the mechanic anyway who said CV boots will need replacing sometime or other, no hurry. Told the owner, knocked that amount off the asking price and the kid drove it away for just under 2700.
Worth the time it took, and the son is happy. He did all the grunt work, and opted to get a loan from bank so he could establish credit. We carry him on our insurance, becuz that cost alone is crippling.
Most any of the Japanese cars are a great value, IMHO.
A Subaru, a Toyota Camry, or even a Honda are all veeeery dependable and not terribly expensive. There is a glut of used cars out there right now, so it's definitely a buyers market. Tell him to be choosy.
Personally I'd stay away from the mid-sized Chrysler cars (Dodge Spirit and the like). They just seem to self-destruct after awhile. Likewise most any of the early to mid '80s American cars. Real junk, most of them.
But more seriously, he may consider and check whether his possible new addition to the family can pass an environmental test. A lot of municipalities are enacting standards, and I don't think vehicles can be "grandfathered" in that won't pass the test. Can be very expensive repairs..
Most any of the Japanese cars are a great value, IMHO.
A Subaru, a Toyota Camry, or even a Honda are all veeeery dependable and not terribly expensive.
True. Subaru's tend to be more expensive because of the all-wheel drive, but you can get a mid to late 90's Honda or Toyota car for around that price pretty easily.
My memory is failing me here, but I believe that there's a website where you can find out about a car from its VIN number. Was it in any accidents, how many owners, that sort of thing. Hopefully, other GS denizens can fill in the data.
The advice given here is sound. I would like to add that there are other cars that are worth their salt, especially Ford escorts. We have driven them for many many miles and bought ours as used cars.
If you want a good price check try Kelley Blue Book. On that same site you will find access to the info George SG recommended...look on the right for something like "search" or "title".
I'd suggest that everything be written down. Make sure that a fair deposit will allow you time to have the car evaluated by your mechanic and that you can get your deposit back if you change your mind for any reason (not just mechanical)
There are lots of really good used cars out there with plenty of service left in them.
Subarus a bit hit and miss.If you get a good one, great.Get a bad one, big money.My son bought a Subaru(the kids love the sound)and goes well.My nephew bought one and had nothing but trouble.
Agree with Allan. I have 2 Subarus, both bought new and maintained by myself and I wouldn't trade them for anything. I would not, however buy one with 100k miles for my daughter. They are beautifully engineered cars, but they are designed way different than most and can be tricky to maintain.
I got my PT Cruiser via that web site and got a GREAT deal - it's worth checking out.
Also check eBay - I'm serious - I've seen some great deals there and I'm sure there's got to be some in your area for him to consider.
=====================================
My advise:
Get something BIG - he's 17 y/o, so his insurance will be thru the roof on a little sport coupe. He'd probably do well with something like a Dodge Stratus or Dodge Intrepid (lots of power for not a lot of money), Ford Taurus, Chevy Monte Carlo, etc. I'd stay away from anything GMC, including Saturn's right now. A Saturn at $2700 is going to be a piece of junk because Saturn's retain a lot of their value. Same for Suburu - at least in my area. He should stay away from anything Nissan or VW - insurance reasons, again. Consider a V6 engine over a V4 - 6-ers last longer than 4's.
Also - I haven't used it but have friends who swear by it:
Another issue that hasn't been touched on is the smog check. If you live where there aren't any, then thank your stars and move along.
If you do have smog checks, make sure that the sale is contingent on a pass. Even better is if you can see the report and find out how close to a fail the car is. Smog checks have just about ruined the market for drivable clunkers in most of California. OTOH, the air is nice and clean (:
Your neighbor's son may want to consider payments - that's not a bad down payment, and if he can find a car for say, $4000 or so, the payments will be around $100/month, and it will help him establish his credit.
Personally I'd stay away from the mid-sized Chrysler cars (Dodge Spirit and the like). They just seem to self-destruct after awhile. Likewise most any of the early to mid '80s American cars. Real junk, most of them.
Those are known as "K-Cars" - no self-respecting 17 y/o male is going to get within 6 feet of one of those! (At least, I'd hope not!)
Another thing - several posters have mentioned 'establishing credit' - not a bad idea, but not the smartest thing to do with a car - he'd have to carry full insurance on the thing - big $$$. Most places have kids under 18 y/o have a cosigner. Absolutely stay away from those "Buy Here/Pay Here" places - the interest rates are usually pretty steep...
if you go to autotrader.com you can put in the price range... and you'll see what cars in your area are going for...
for that amount of money you're probably looking at a 12 to 15 year old car with matching milage... toyotas and hondas are known to last... make sure the timing belt has been replaced at least once (every 70k miles or so)...
My memory is failing me here, but I believe that there's a website where you can find out about a car from its VIN number. Was it in any accidents, how many owners, that sort of thing.
GsGeorge -- the CARFAX SITE that Chas mentioned, is the one you are thinking of. If you have the vin number, you can check out any auto anywhere.
I did that with a Subaru wagon I was considering buying, and found out it had 4 reports about it. I would have had to pay 29.99 for the details (which I didn't), but the initial report is free, and gives you an idea about that specific auto, and what it has been through.
One thing about those Carfax reports - they include recalls - even customer satisfaction recalls - not just defective parts.
Here's an example: My PT's steering wheel makes a funny sound when I'm making sharp turns, like when I turn in to a parking space. After checking with a dealership I found there was a customer satisfaction recall - not a safety recall on it. What's the difference? A safety recall is paid for by the auto maker - the other kind is NOT.
Just because there's reports on a car, it doesn't mean it was in an accident - Carfax is mo' than that.
I have used carfax three or four times. So far I have not discovered anything on the cars that would kick a deal, but ya never know. The $30 fee is good for unlimited reports for a month or two (or three?) I forgot exactly.
The initial summary someone mentioned of having 4 reports could have been meaningless. The four reports were likely the sales recording, or emissions testing or registrations. This gives you some history on the car, like how many miles it has been driven in what stages of its life.you can't tell much from that summary.
It will also divulge things like salvage titles or often, accidents which involved a police report. All good info to know.
I recommend getting a carfax subscription when you are beginning your shopping. Ya never know what it can save you.
I also get a carfax report on my own cars when I sell them. It helps the buyer to have more confidence in what you are selling.
My ex and I used Carfax when we bought his car. There were some cars we didn't buy because of the problems reported with them. We "justified" buying the Monte Carlo because it was just way too cool and awesome looking....ended up spending another $3K replacing the transmission or something right after we got it. --> Shoulda heeded the warning on the Carfax report.
Dodge Spirits are not K-cars. They came after the K-cars. We had a 1989 Dodge Spirit with a 4 cylinder engine that we put 205K on before we sold it. Six-cylinder engines are bad, though.
I heartily recommend Hondas. They may not be too glamorous, but with appropriate maintenance they do very well. A Civic or Accord coupe can look cool enough and if it's a manual transmission, is rather sporty to drive.
We bought our son a 1990-something Jeep CJ7 with a 4-inch lift and 32 inch big wheels. Piece of poo-poo. Shook so bad we replaced the alternator twice, clutch at least once (he generously taught his friends how to drive a manual transmission) and the battery a couple times also. You could hear him from a mile away. The only benefit was, there was no way he could sneak in late at night, the windows rattling from his approach would wake up half the neighborhood!
I also don't recommend spending a penny on the kid's transportation, even if they promise to get a job and pay you back.
Almost every car I've ever owned was a cheap used car. Many I paid $500 or less for.
I never buy from a dealer, always an individual. I want to see what their house looks like. I figure if their home and yard is trashed odds are really really good they didn't take care of the car either.
I check to see if the oil is clean, same with the engine. BUT if the engine is too clean it probably means they cleaned it to hide leaks. Most older cars are going to leak some fluid.
Ask for repair and maintence records and find out when the transmission fluid was last changed.
Then go home and look up the car on the internet and find out what kind of problems you might expect for the year and number of miles. Also find out what the blue book value is.
So far, with all my many cheap cars, I've only bought one lemon. That was because I was desperate and in a hurry and didn't take the time I should have.
I check to see if the oil is clean, same with the engine. BUT if the engine is too clean it probably means they cleaned it to hide leaks. Most older cars are going to leak some fluid.
Every time I've sold a car, I've cleaned the engine and changed the oil first. I wouldn't read much into it if the engine were clean.
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Steve!
I bet he could find a good used Saturn - those cars are very well made and a good value.
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Galen
Do you have any dealer/mechanics that you trust?
Bonnie has a close friend that is a mechanic who recently opened his own dealership, we trust him. We tell him how much we can spend and what we need the car to do, and he will bring stuff back from the auctions. Often when looking at his lot, he will tell us: "No, you dont want that car that model has X wrong with it, ...".
Also the value of taking a car in to a mechanic once a year for a 100 point check-up, just can not be over-stated. I would much rather spend $500 on each car, each year on schedule instead of having a car break-down unexpectedly.
I tore-up my first couple vehicles, and our children haven done about the same. I dont know your children, but generally I would recommend that they get something really cheap and simple. Knowing that in all likelihood they are going to rip-out the underside while off-roading, or hit a curb too hard and snap some axles, or whatever. Some people need to go through a couple vehicles before they finally settle down and make it worth while to buy cars based upon resale value and mileage.
Unless of course your children are wise, mature and take really good care of their things. [Ours dont].
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coolchef1248 @adelphia.net
15 or so years ago i bought an old clinker volvo for my oldest son. he drove it for a few years. we he left for the navy he gave it to his kid brother who also drove it for a few years. when he left home he gave it to his kid brother twins who drove it for a year or so befor they left for the army and marines. it had something like 500 tho. mile on it with very little trouble
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MATILDA
We just went thru this with our 18 year old son.
Here's what we advised:
- once determined what you want (reliable transport, not too dorky, price range, payment options etc.) AVOID USED CAR LOTS if possible, SHOP OWNER SALES VEHICLES.
- if/when you find a car you're interested in, take it to a mechanic you trust and have him look at it. This can give you good info on the real state of the car and possibly things that may need attention sometime real soon (like right after you hand over the dough...lol)
It can be a negotiating tool (and should be) if there really is something that needs attention.
- try not to be in a super rush to buy, if possible, so you can look and test a bit. (Harder to do than say.)
Reid's Journey:
1st car was a $3200 red sun-roofed stick-shifted something or other...from a snake-oil peddling car dealer. Had to have it. Never mind it didn't have A/C...
"Mom, you said transportation was most important."
"Reid, we live in frickin' Florida, the hottest place in the country most often...it's hot here when it's cold."
"We got him down to $2700..."
"Reid, the guy bought the car for 1800 and washed it - the rest is mark up he's not a pal. Take it to the mechanic and see what he says."
Well, A/C cost a grand, and the CV boots need replacing, never mind the paint job.
Hey! but the mechanic has a humdinger he's willing to let go for $1,500...a little Nissan last forever ain't never gonna die pick-up truck....and it was a good deal, well cared for, good A/C etc. It was a deal, except when Reid went to get it, he sold it to a girlfriend.
Next...Reid found an individual, the only owner of a 93 Acura Integra who kept meticulous records of his very well cared for vehicle.
It's garnet paint job is good, the engine and tires are great, interior nice...lots of life left. Took it to the mechanic anyway who said CV boots will need replacing sometime or other, no hurry. Told the owner, knocked that amount off the asking price and the kid drove it away for just under 2700.
Worth the time it took, and the son is happy. He did all the grunt work, and opted to get a loan from bank so he could establish credit. We carry him on our insurance, becuz that cost alone is crippling.
Good luck.
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George Aar
Most any of the Japanese cars are a great value, IMHO.
A Subaru, a Toyota Camry, or even a Honda are all veeeery dependable and not terribly expensive. There is a glut of used cars out there right now, so it's definitely a buyers market. Tell him to be choosy.
Personally I'd stay away from the mid-sized Chrysler cars (Dodge Spirit and the like). They just seem to self-destruct after awhile. Likewise most any of the early to mid '80s American cars. Real junk, most of them.
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Ham
Watch out for used cabs, heh heh.
But more seriously, he may consider and check whether his possible new addition to the family can pass an environmental test. A lot of municipalities are enacting standards, and I don't think vehicles can be "grandfathered" in that won't pass the test. Can be very expensive repairs..
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dmiller
True. Subaru's tend to be more expensive because of the all-wheel drive, but you can get a mid to late 90's Honda or Toyota car for around that price pretty easily.
And --- they are great on gas mileage.
:)-->
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GeorgeStGeorge
My memory is failing me here, but I believe that there's a website where you can find out about a car from its VIN number. Was it in any accidents, how many owners, that sort of thing. Hopefully, other GS denizens can fill in the data.
George
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krys
The advice given here is sound. I would like to add that there are other cars that are worth their salt, especially Ford escorts. We have driven them for many many miles and bought ours as used cars.
If you want a good price check try Kelley Blue Book. On that same site you will find access to the info George SG recommended...look on the right for something like "search" or "title".
I'd suggest that everything be written down. Make sure that a fair deposit will allow you time to have the car evaluated by your mechanic and that you can get your deposit back if you change your mind for any reason (not just mechanical)
There are lots of really good used cars out there with plenty of service left in them.
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Jim
Toyota. Not as popular as a Honda, but just as reliable and cheaper. A Ford/made by Mazda small pickup is good too.
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Allan
Subarus a bit hit and miss.If you get a good one, great.Get a bad one, big money.My son bought a Subaru(the kids love the sound)and goes well.My nephew bought one and had nothing but trouble.
Other son had a Honda Ferio,awesome car.
Older jap cars tend to rust out quicker.
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Jim
Agree with Allan. I have 2 Subarus, both bought new and maintained by myself and I wouldn't trade them for anything. I would not, however buy one with 100k miles for my daughter. They are beautifully engineered cars, but they are designed way different than most and can be tricky to maintain.
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ChasUFarley
You can look for cars, check Blue Book values, look into car options/equipment, even apply for loans, insurance, etc. all here:
http://www.cars.com
I got my PT Cruiser via that web site and got a GREAT deal - it's worth checking out.
Also check eBay - I'm serious - I've seen some great deals there and I'm sure there's got to be some in your area for him to consider.
=====================================
My advise:
Get something BIG - he's 17 y/o, so his insurance will be thru the roof on a little sport coupe. He'd probably do well with something like a Dodge Stratus or Dodge Intrepid (lots of power for not a lot of money), Ford Taurus, Chevy Monte Carlo, etc. I'd stay away from anything GMC, including Saturn's right now. A Saturn at $2700 is going to be a piece of junk because Saturn's retain a lot of their value. Same for Suburu - at least in my area. He should stay away from anything Nissan or VW - insurance reasons, again. Consider a V6 engine over a V4 - 6-ers last longer than 4's.
Also - I haven't used it but have friends who swear by it:
http://www.carfax.com - to check out his (potential) car's history.
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Jim
Another issue that hasn't been touched on is the smog check. If you live where there aren't any, then thank your stars and move along.
If you do have smog checks, make sure that the sale is contingent on a pass. Even better is if you can see the report and find out how close to a fail the car is. Smog checks have just about ruined the market for drivable clunkers in most of California. OTOH, the air is nice and clean (:
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Steve!
Your neighbor's son may want to consider payments - that's not a bad down payment, and if he can find a car for say, $4000 or so, the payments will be around $100/month, and it will help him establish his credit.
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ChasUFarley
Those are known as "K-Cars" - no self-respecting 17 y/o male is going to get within 6 feet of one of those! (At least, I'd hope not!)
Another thing - several posters have mentioned 'establishing credit' - not a bad idea, but not the smartest thing to do with a car - he'd have to carry full insurance on the thing - big $$$. Most places have kids under 18 y/o have a cosigner. Absolutely stay away from those "Buy Here/Pay Here" places - the interest rates are usually pretty steep...
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Tom Strange
if you go to autotrader.com you can put in the price range... and you'll see what cars in your area are going for...
for that amount of money you're probably looking at a 12 to 15 year old car with matching milage... toyotas and hondas are known to last... make sure the timing belt has been replaced at least once (every 70k miles or so)...
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dmiller
GsGeorge -- the CARFAX SITE that Chas mentioned, is the one you are thinking of. If you have the vin number, you can check out any auto anywhere.
I did that with a Subaru wagon I was considering buying, and found out it had 4 reports about it. I would have had to pay 29.99 for the details (which I didn't), but the initial report is free, and gives you an idea about that specific auto, and what it has been through.
David
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ChasUFarley
One thing about those Carfax reports - they include recalls - even customer satisfaction recalls - not just defective parts.
Here's an example: My PT's steering wheel makes a funny sound when I'm making sharp turns, like when I turn in to a parking space. After checking with a dealership I found there was a customer satisfaction recall - not a safety recall on it. What's the difference? A safety recall is paid for by the auto maker - the other kind is NOT.
Just because there's reports on a car, it doesn't mean it was in an accident - Carfax is mo' than that.
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HAPe4me
I have used carfax three or four times. So far I have not discovered anything on the cars that would kick a deal, but ya never know. The $30 fee is good for unlimited reports for a month or two (or three?) I forgot exactly.
The initial summary someone mentioned of having 4 reports could have been meaningless. The four reports were likely the sales recording, or emissions testing or registrations. This gives you some history on the car, like how many miles it has been driven in what stages of its life.you can't tell much from that summary.
It will also divulge things like salvage titles or often, accidents which involved a police report. All good info to know.
I recommend getting a carfax subscription when you are beginning your shopping. Ya never know what it can save you.
I also get a carfax report on my own cars when I sell them. It helps the buyer to have more confidence in what you are selling.
~HAP
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Belle
Thanks so much, Y'all!!
:D-->
I am printing this out to show Mom and son.
My ex and I used Carfax when we bought his car. There were some cars we didn't buy because of the problems reported with them. We "justified" buying the Monte Carlo because it was just way too cool and awesome looking....ended up spending another $3K replacing the transmission or something right after we got it.
--> Shoulda heeded the warning on the Carfax report.
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Watered Garden
Dodge Spirits are not K-cars. They came after the K-cars. We had a 1989 Dodge Spirit with a 4 cylinder engine that we put 205K on before we sold it. Six-cylinder engines are bad, though.
I heartily recommend Hondas. They may not be too glamorous, but with appropriate maintenance they do very well. A Civic or Accord coupe can look cool enough and if it's a manual transmission, is rather sporty to drive.
We bought our son a 1990-something Jeep CJ7 with a 4-inch lift and 32 inch big wheels. Piece of poo-poo. Shook so bad we replaced the alternator twice, clutch at least once (he generously taught his friends how to drive a manual transmission) and the battery a couple times also. You could hear him from a mile away. The only benefit was, there was no way he could sneak in late at night, the windows rattling from his approach would wake up half the neighborhood!
I also don't recommend spending a penny on the kid's transportation, even if they promise to get a job and pay you back.
WG
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Abigail
Almost every car I've ever owned was a cheap used car. Many I paid $500 or less for.
I never buy from a dealer, always an individual. I want to see what their house looks like. I figure if their home and yard is trashed odds are really really good they didn't take care of the car either.
I check to see if the oil is clean, same with the engine. BUT if the engine is too clean it probably means they cleaned it to hide leaks. Most older cars are going to leak some fluid.
Ask for repair and maintence records and find out when the transmission fluid was last changed.
Then go home and look up the car on the internet and find out what kind of problems you might expect for the year and number of miles. Also find out what the blue book value is.
So far, with all my many cheap cars, I've only bought one lemon. That was because I was desperate and in a hurry and didn't take the time I should have.
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Jim
Every time I've sold a car, I've cleaned the engine and changed the oil first. I wouldn't read much into it if the engine were clean.
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