I am not quite sure where I can chime into this thread.
I really want to participate.
It's a dialog of response via a computer.
A conversation of some sort with rules made to be broken.
So, to fit my mental imagery, I'm just gonna picture a banquet hall with tables of various geometrical shapes with ample standing room with the din of many conversations regarding said topic of thread.
I am rather a wonderer in such types of scenarios sometimes hooking up with one and traveling the room, or stationary with several at a table or standing in a group, or just kicked back and eaves dropping.
I suppose 10 years in the Hospitality Industry outside of TWI's functions has its advantages hence my aforementioned imagery to be able to interact this thread.
Now I am ready to engage conversation within the theme of the banquet event.
Belle places a spinach canape, some brie, a few crackers, a shrimp and smoked sausage skewer on her plate. Heads to the bar to get a glass of Yellow Tail Shiraz~Grenach.
Many people are at different points of spiritual understanding. We are to have respect and love for each other regardless. Communicating to each other can help a lot with spiritual growth.
CM, I liked that you used "points" rather than "levels".
There is a beginning and different stages of life which lead to an end. Conception to death.
But to me, "different points of spiritual understanding" can come anywhere between that beginning and end. I may be in Chicago while a friend of mine is in China, but we on the same planet. While I am fifty years of age I may understand something that occured when I was ten and so on.
Belle places a spinach canape, some brie, a few crackers, a shrimp and smoked sausage skewer on her plate. Heads to the bar to get a glass of Yellow Tail Shiraz~Grenach.
So tell me, Song, Who's fault IS it?
"Uhmm, excuse me CM..."
"Well, Belle, seen you moving around here. How 'bout we just sit at the bar here. Uhmm yes , on my tab please. And I'll have a Guiness in a can and an ice cold pilsner glass and I'll open the can.
Cheers.
Who's fault is It?, and I know you asked first.
Well,
of course it's God's fault!
If so be there is or are gods'! and that is if all in this world is a spiritual reason our being."
If so be there is or are gods'! and that is if all in this world is a spiritual reason our being."
"Cheers!"
"The canapes are good, Song. You should try one. I think they have crab on the other plate."
"'If there is or are gods'....I'm intrigued....are you saying you doubt that there's a one true God or multiple gods? Do you subscribe to the Unified Field Theroy or that we're all connected and there's more "energy" transference than, say, spiritual? If not spiritual reason for our being, then what reason do you think?"
"I haven't considered anything other than TWIt doctrine for so long that I'm really enjoying hearing other theories, thoughts, beliefs and such."
"If anyone is inclined to venture in, try to keep your replies short, as I will too. I don't want this thread to get bogged down in the usual morass of metaphysical muck, which these discussions generally become.
Regards..."
Belle
I would be remiss not to mention Sir Satori's above request 1'st page since now he will be having his toes in the sand!
And Satori listen to the ocean and the sand 'neath your feet soul. Happy vacation.
And Happy Vacation also to you Laleo. May you find song at the dock of the bay.
gotta tell ya, this thread has been a fascinating read
but my timing sucks. i hope you have a good vacation
a few things come to mind...
have you ever played in a chatroom?
and, you ever catch wind of the live doctrinal chat sessions some of us were playing with a few weeks back?
i think you'd be pretty darn good at facilitating "open-space" and "talking circle" type dialogue sessions
in fact, your idea of one-liners gave me an interesting idea for another talking circle "form" to play with
also, the exchange betwen you and CM made me start thinking of some way of actually utilizing the different languages (like archaic bible speak) in order to get past them (but include them more objectively)
btw - you ever hear of Genpo Roshi's "Big Mind Series?"
no, not another PFAL. but a simple "game" of using zen and psychology models to walk one thru various states of mind via a simple interactive Q&A dialogue
pretty cool stuff
as it pertains to a brief something regarding "Whose Fault IS It?"...
just blame this, i guess
just this, as it is
as it rises and falls
even now
where it moves it moves
and where it sticks it sticks
where it sees it sees
where its blind its blind
where there is smoke...blame fire (thank Something)
Boiled jumbo shrimp, eh? I'm going to have to get some of that. Isn't it amazing how things we do affect others and sometimes much further away than we evern dreamed possible? Sometimes indirectly and sometimes when we aren't even aware of it.
Take plenty of sunscreen, laugh alot, and a build a sandcastle or two, friend. :)-->
Thanks. The sunscreen worked (but I still got a tan), there was lots of laughter, and all my sandcastles fell before the winged feet of a precocious 3-something, which is as it should be.
gotta tell ya, this thread has been a fascinating read
but my timing sucks. i hope you have a good vacation
I did, thanks.
a few things come to mind...
have you ever played in a chatroom?
I have, but I don't think they serve this type of discussion. People need the time to reflect, if they're going to succeed in re-framing their beliefs in any other contexts. You can't do that in "real time."
The illumination of a new, clear path can occur in a moment's reflection, but it still takes time to rearrange any mental furniture that is obstructing your view.
The cup is always filling itself. It takes determination and discipline to empty it long enough to pour in something new.
I'm not interested in your opinion. I'm interested in how you understand your opinion, its genesis, evolution... People get "windy" when they expound extemporaneously on abstracts (higher, conceptual stuff). A thread allows you to pare away the non-essential and get to your core meaning.
and, you ever catch wind of the live doctrinal chat sessions some of us were playing with a few weeks back?
I haven't had the privilege.
i think you'd be pretty darn good at facilitating "open-space" and "talking circle" type dialogue sessions in fact, your idea of one-liners gave me an interesting idea for another talking circle "form" to play with
also, the exchange betwen you and CM made me start thinking of some way of actually utilizing the different languages (like archaic bible speak) in order to get past them (but include them more objectively)
I'm not sure how you could do that, when we all bring so many associations ("baggage") with KJV language. One-on-one, or in a closed setting maybe. But in an open forum, as much as possible, a common language is essential.
I can't use KJV language as my own without feeling pretentious. For me it's a dead language, and ought to be. It has a great value for students, and worshippers no doubt, but little use for discussions like this one. In a way, it pre-empts the discussion and establishes its own implied conclusion. It usurps the present standard, "reason" (as much as possible), with another, KJV dogma.
I've facilitated a number of discussions in a professional setting. I am kind of good at it, since you mention it, and I enjoy it
btw - you ever hear of Genpo Roshi's "Big Mind Series?"
Doesn't ring a bell.
no, not another PFAL. but a simple "game" of using zen and psychology models to walk one thru various states of mind via a simple interactive Q&A dialogue pretty cool stuff
I'll look for it.
as it pertains to a brief something regarding "Whose Fault IS It?"...
just blame this, i guess
just this, as it is
as it rises and falls
even now
where it moves it moves
and where it sticks it sticks
where it sees it sees
where its blind its blind
where there is smoke...blame fire (thank Something)
Without dissection, or explanation, I'd like to see some "commentary" on this by the author.
I agree that the delay allowed and discipline fostered by thread posting is valuable in many many ways, but i wouldn't go as far as to say that the live "real time" interactions are in any way less valuable for re-framing beliefs and such. just a different set of "prescriptions," if you will.
whether or not people getting "windy" on abstract or higher concepts is useful or essential for finding core meanings, is a matter of opinion. and perhaps even more so...a matter of contexts, and the degrees of openness in the group.
doh. i gotta run, but i'll try and finish up later
and whether or not the KJV language has little use in a discussion might also depend on who wants to control the discussion and why. sure, one can say "in this discussion, we will only use the lingo that I/we are most comfortable with," but this is just a single arbitrary recipe for a single line of discourse. an exclusivity of style and form that serves an exclusive purpose (which, as you applied to "KJV-language," can also be useful for students and worshippers of "discussions like this one.").
another question is, perhaps: can we find a way to engage in a dialogue form that does not exclude any "language style?" (as long as its english among english speakers, of course, for example)
can not the "poetic" voice speak and be heard by the "rational" mind?
cannot the "rational" voice speak and be heard by the "poetic" mind?
a bit more of what i'm getting at...is finding as many ways as we can to bridge the many language styles we all use, rather than further disconnect and isolate any one of them simply for their age or our utility. then from there, we can begin to see all the specializations of dialogue for what they are (and there are many of them). And by this recognizing and honoring of all the forms currently in use in a more neutral all-encompassing framework, the versatility of application deepens and widens (as on a spread sheet or something). cuz in the end, it seems, there is no absolute dialogue form when it comes to "reframing beliefs" or "getting to core-meaning" (which even contradicts what i just said).
ok. now, apply this to "whose fault is it?," and maybe this might make more sense:
My "theory" is that they are inseparable. Or putting theories aside, they just oughta be, dang it.
"...the spirit of power, and of love, and of a sound mind..."
Why wouldn't all three go together, a "trinity" if you will? Three-in-one.
Together, what do they accomplish?
Looking back now, I don't know what to make of those moments of healing; those moments when I thought I knew something or understood something beyond what I could have known or understood -- what was real and what was imagined.
Also, I wonder how you're defining "power." Miracles? Or something more human?
quote:
Experience would confirm it. I'd like to think there was more to it, even if we've gotten much of it wrong.
If you feel like explaining, I'd like to hear about the experience you once had (or had many times, for all I know) that has you now putting it into a spiritual context.
My "theory" is that they are inseparable. Or putting theories aside, they just oughta be, dang it.
"...the spirit of power, and of love, and of a sound mind..."
Why wouldn't all three go together, a "trinity" if you will? Three-in-one.
Together, what do they accomplish?
They should accomplish something generally "Christ-like" in each individual, supplying the agency and energy of the Creator to re-mold creation into its original image, one "miracle" at a time.
Looking back now, I don't know what to make of those moments of healing; those moments when I thought I knew something or understood something beyond what I could have known or understood -- what was real and what was imagined.
Same here. I feel the plausibility of something real (and "spiritual") behind the terrestrial fabric of our sense-perceptions and the cause-effect conclusions we draw from them. It's enough to go on, but nothing more.
Also, I wonder how you're defining "power." Miracles? Or something more human?
Miracles, the suspension of natural laws.
quote:
Experience would confirm it. I'd like to think there was more to it, even if we've gotten much of it wrong.
If you feel like explaining, I'd like to hear about the experience you once had (or had many times, for all I know) that has you now putting it into a spiritual context.
It was a single event, and a long time ago, probably the summer of '76 or '77. It gave me the clear and distinct sense that infinity and eternity were immediate and present, that I could (for example) reach to the horizon, and I could touch the sunset, as if it were a part of me. I never lost awareness of my surroundings. I only saw them in this new context, momentarily, a context in which my sense of "self" expanded to include our world, and the world(s) in which ours is suspended.
It might have been a moment of "satori," as described by Clare Solloway, someone I've never heard of until her link came up in a search just now. The descriptions all seem fairly consistent, from one person to the next. She apparently has a "method." I don't know anything about that either.
I can't really say that this was THE defining moment for anything, but certainly one of them.
For a time in TWI I believed it might have been "possession." I probably put it out of my mind for a long time as a result.
--
I may have misunderstood your question. I've had countless incidents, or co-incidents/coincidences, "teasers," which seem to reveal patterns of sympathy between inner thoughts and the outer world.
Here's a recent example. Driving home from a "gig" (my latest bar band is a retro-rock/R&B thing, fun but otherwise unimpressive) a few weeks ago, I was thinking about the etymology of the word "gig." I couldn't guess what it might be, unless short for "engagement."
A few days later, a radio talk show had on a well-known etymology expert/writer, and someone called in to inquire about the etymology of the word, "gig."
Okay, it's a more popular word these days. In itself, it proves nothing. Many, many similar coincidental events prove nothing. But they do incline my imagination toward small "miracles."
They should accomplish something generally "Christ-like" in each individual, supplying the agency and energy of the Creator to re-mold creation into its original image, one "miracle" at a time.
Which, to me, sounds similar to Aristotle's (or is it Plato's?) theory about goodness drawing people to itself. I think all sorts of doctrines, systems, theories have arisen to explain what many know but don't know about the experience of grace. Aristotle spent a lot of time coming up with an explanation for why some people flourish and others don't, why the "magic" follows some and not others. I think I like his conclusion, as far as these things go. Do good, and (hopefully) you'll find goodness.
Unfortunately, where things seem to fall apart is in replicating the experience of grace, which I guess is the best answer I have to your original question: Whose fault is if you don't flourish, don't prosper, don't find those moments of grace? I don't know the answer. Do you? Also, I wonder where those occasional moments of sadness come from when they don't follow a specific event or loss. Like, is despair also spiritual? Is it part of some universal experience?
More importantly, now that you brought it up, where did "gig" come from?
Glad you enjoying your gig, whatever its source, and whatever it means.
'gig' the musician's engagement, probably derives immediately from the 'gig' that is a dance or party, but 'gig' and 'gigi' (or 'giggy') also are old slang terms for the vulva; the first has been dated to the seventeenth century.
Also:
From: Word Origins: “Gâ€http://www.wordorigins.org/wordorg.htm
This brings us to the most common sense, that of a musician's engagement or job. The musical sense dates to 1926 and first arose as jazz slang in the US. But the origin is not in music. The use of gig to mean a non-musical job or occupation dates to 1908, and the sense of a business affair or event is a year older than that. The origin is unknown, but it may come from the slang term gag. This dates to 1890 and means business method, practice, or behavior. All these sense are American slang usages.
Noun. Gig first appeared as a slang term among jazz musicians in the mid-1920's. Although mostly used as a noun, gig also has a verb form used in the uncommon word "gigging." The word itself connotes a short-term "one-night stand." Appearing in English in the 15th century, "gig" meant something spinning, like a "whirligig." Derived from that is a meaning of dancing, and since playing at parties and dances is every musician's meal ticket early in their career, it's easy to see how "gig" became generalized to mean any paying job.
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
I am not quite sure where I can chime into this thread.
I really want to participate.
It's a dialog of response via a computer.
A conversation of some sort with rules made to be broken.
So, to fit my mental imagery, I'm just gonna picture a banquet hall with tables of various geometrical shapes with ample standing room with the din of many conversations regarding said topic of thread.
I am rather a wonderer in such types of scenarios sometimes hooking up with one and traveling the room, or stationary with several at a table or standing in a group, or just kicked back and eaves dropping.
I suppose 10 years in the Hospitality Industry outside of TWI's functions has its advantages hence my aforementioned imagery to be able to interact this thread.
Now I am ready to engage conversation within the theme of the banquet event.
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Belle
Belle places a spinach canape, some brie, a few crackers, a shrimp and smoked sausage skewer on her plate. Heads to the bar to get a glass of Yellow Tail Shiraz~Grenach.
So tell me, Song, Who's fault IS it?
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
CM, I liked that you used "points" rather than "levels".
There is a beginning and different stages of life which lead to an end. Conception to death.
But to me, "different points of spiritual understanding" can come anywhere between that beginning and end. I may be in Chicago while a friend of mine is in China, but we on the same planet. While I am fifty years of age I may understand something that occured when I was ten and so on.
Where am I going with that???
HAHHAHHAHHAHahhhhhaaa
Too many points to be made.
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
"Uhmm, excuse me CM..."
"Well, Belle, seen you moving around here. How 'bout we just sit at the bar here. Uhmm yes , on my tab please. And I'll have a Guiness in a can and an ice cold pilsner glass and I'll open the can.
Cheers.
Who's fault is It?, and I know you asked first.
Well,
of course it's God's fault!
If so be there is or are gods'! and that is if all in this world is a spiritual reason our being."
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ex10
Take plenty of sunscreen, laugh alot, and a buile a sandcastle or two, friend.
:)-->
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Belle
"Cheers!"
"The canapes are good, Song. You should try one. I think they have crab on the other plate."
"'If there is or are gods'....I'm intrigued....are you saying you doubt that there's a one true God or multiple gods? Do you subscribe to the Unified Field Theroy or that we're all connected and there's more "energy" transference than, say, spiritual? If not spiritual reason for our being, then what reason do you think?"
"I haven't considered anything other than TWIt doctrine for so long that I'm really enjoying hearing other theories, thoughts, beliefs and such."
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
"If anyone is inclined to venture in, try to keep your replies short, as I will too. I don't want this thread to get bogged down in the usual morass of metaphysical muck, which these discussions generally become.
Regards..."
Belle
I would be remiss not to mention Sir Satori's above request 1'st page since now he will be having his toes in the sand!
And Satori listen to the ocean and the sand 'neath your feet soul. Happy vacation.
And Happy Vacation also to you Laleo. May you find song at the dock of the bay.
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
Okay
I suppose the party is still on???
Belle, wher'djya go???
Hey if Satori can't stick to his own rules, I suppose the rules are make em as ya go~~~
Looks like a load of boiled jumbo shrimp (Unified Field Theroy ) just placed on that buffet table
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sirguessalot
peace, Satori
gotta tell ya, this thread has been a fascinating read
but my timing sucks. i hope you have a good vacation
a few things come to mind...
have you ever played in a chatroom?
and, you ever catch wind of the live doctrinal chat sessions some of us were playing with a few weeks back?
i think you'd be pretty darn good at facilitating "open-space" and "talking circle" type dialogue sessions
in fact, your idea of one-liners gave me an interesting idea for another talking circle "form" to play with
also, the exchange betwen you and CM made me start thinking of some way of actually utilizing the different languages (like archaic bible speak) in order to get past them (but include them more objectively)
btw - you ever hear of Genpo Roshi's "Big Mind Series?"
no, not another PFAL. but a simple "game" of using zen and psychology models to walk one thru various states of mind via a simple interactive Q&A dialogue
pretty cool stuff
as it pertains to a brief something regarding "Whose Fault IS It?"...
just blame this, i guess
just this, as it is
as it rises and falls
even now
where it moves it moves
and where it sticks it sticks
where it sees it sees
where its blind its blind
where there is smoke...blame fire (thank Something)
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Belle
I'm here, Song. Just went to powder my nose.
Boiled jumbo shrimp, eh? I'm going to have to get some of that. Isn't it amazing how things we do affect others and sometimes much further away than we evern dreamed possible? Sometimes indirectly and sometimes when we aren't even aware of it.
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satori001
Farther than we think. There's a name for that phenomenon. The hundredth monkey? Something like that.
I'm not back yet.
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satori001
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satori001
Originally posted by sirguessalot:
peace, Satori
gotta tell ya, this thread has been a fascinating read
but my timing sucks. i hope you have a good vacation
I did, thanks.
a few things come to mind...
have you ever played in a chatroom?
I have, but I don't think they serve this type of discussion. People need the time to reflect, if they're going to succeed in re-framing their beliefs in any other contexts. You can't do that in "real time."
The illumination of a new, clear path can occur in a moment's reflection, but it still takes time to rearrange any mental furniture that is obstructing your view.
The cup is always filling itself. It takes determination and discipline to empty it long enough to pour in something new.
I'm not interested in your opinion. I'm interested in how you understand your opinion, its genesis, evolution... People get "windy" when they expound extemporaneously on abstracts (higher, conceptual stuff). A thread allows you to pare away the non-essential and get to your core meaning.
and, you ever catch wind of the live doctrinal chat sessions some of us were playing with a few weeks back?
I haven't had the privilege.
i think you'd be pretty darn good at facilitating "open-space" and "talking circle" type dialogue sessions in fact, your idea of one-liners gave me an interesting idea for another talking circle "form" to play with
also, the exchange betwen you and CM made me start thinking of some way of actually utilizing the different languages (like archaic bible speak) in order to get past them (but include them more objectively)
I'm not sure how you could do that, when we all bring so many associations ("baggage") with KJV language. One-on-one, or in a closed setting maybe. But in an open forum, as much as possible, a common language is essential.
I can't use KJV language as my own without feeling pretentious. For me it's a dead language, and ought to be. It has a great value for students, and worshippers no doubt, but little use for discussions like this one. In a way, it pre-empts the discussion and establishes its own implied conclusion. It usurps the present standard, "reason" (as much as possible), with another, KJV dogma.
I've facilitated a number of discussions in a professional setting. I am kind of good at it, since you mention it, and I enjoy it
btw - you ever hear of Genpo Roshi's "Big Mind Series?"
Doesn't ring a bell.
no, not another PFAL. but a simple "game" of using zen and psychology models to walk one thru various states of mind via a simple interactive Q&A dialogue pretty cool stuff
I'll look for it.
as it pertains to a brief something regarding "Whose Fault IS It?"...
just blame this, i guess
just this, as it is
as it rises and falls
even now
where it moves it moves
and where it sticks it sticks
where it sees it sees
where its blind its blind
where there is smoke...blame fire (thank Something)
Without dissection, or explanation, I'd like to see some "commentary" on this by the author.
Thanks
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sirguessalot
I agree that the delay allowed and discipline fostered by thread posting is valuable in many many ways, but i wouldn't go as far as to say that the live "real time" interactions are in any way less valuable for re-framing beliefs and such. just a different set of "prescriptions," if you will.
whether or not people getting "windy" on abstract or higher concepts is useful or essential for finding core meanings, is a matter of opinion. and perhaps even more so...a matter of contexts, and the degrees of openness in the group.
doh. i gotta run, but i'll try and finish up later
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sirguessalot
and whether or not the KJV language has little use in a discussion might also depend on who wants to control the discussion and why. sure, one can say "in this discussion, we will only use the lingo that I/we are most comfortable with," but this is just a single arbitrary recipe for a single line of discourse. an exclusivity of style and form that serves an exclusive purpose (which, as you applied to "KJV-language," can also be useful for students and worshippers of "discussions like this one.").
another question is, perhaps: can we find a way to engage in a dialogue form that does not exclude any "language style?" (as long as its english among english speakers, of course, for example)
can not the "poetic" voice speak and be heard by the "rational" mind?
cannot the "rational" voice speak and be heard by the "poetic" mind?
Here is the thread
i mentioned. With a professional background in facilitation, i think you might really appreciate the links in the second post.
hmmm. with at least a little dissection and explanation, will you please give me some "commentary" on what you mean by this request?
:)-->
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sirguessalot
a bit more of what i'm getting at...is finding as many ways as we can to bridge the many language styles we all use, rather than further disconnect and isolate any one of them simply for their age or our utility. then from there, we can begin to see all the specializations of dialogue for what they are (and there are many of them). And by this recognizing and honoring of all the forms currently in use in a more neutral all-encompassing framework, the versatility of application deepens and widens (as on a spread sheet or something). cuz in the end, it seems, there is no absolute dialogue form when it comes to "reframing beliefs" or "getting to core-meaning" (which even contradicts what i just said).
ok. now, apply this to "whose fault is it?," and maybe this might make more sense:
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laleo
Together, what do they accomplish?
Looking back now, I don't know what to make of those moments of healing; those moments when I thought I knew something or understood something beyond what I could have known or understood -- what was real and what was imagined.
Also, I wonder how you're defining "power." Miracles? Or something more human?
If you feel like explaining, I'd like to hear about the experience you once had (or had many times, for all I know) that has you now putting it into a spiritual context.
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satori001
Originally posted by laleo:
Together, what do they accomplish?
They should accomplish something generally "Christ-like" in each individual, supplying the agency and energy of the Creator to re-mold creation into its original image, one "miracle" at a time.
Looking back now, I don't know what to make of those moments of healing; those moments when I thought I knew something or understood something beyond what I could have known or understood -- what was real and what was imagined.
Same here. I feel the plausibility of something real (and "spiritual") behind the terrestrial fabric of our sense-perceptions and the cause-effect conclusions we draw from them. It's enough to go on, but nothing more.
Also, I wonder how you're defining "power." Miracles? Or something more human?
Miracles, the suspension of natural laws.
If you feel like explaining, I'd like to hear about the experience you once had (or had many times, for all I know) that has you now putting it into a spiritual context.
It was a single event, and a long time ago, probably the summer of '76 or '77. It gave me the clear and distinct sense that infinity and eternity were immediate and present, that I could (for example) reach to the horizon, and I could touch the sunset, as if it were a part of me. I never lost awareness of my surroundings. I only saw them in this new context, momentarily, a context in which my sense of "self" expanded to include our world, and the world(s) in which ours is suspended.
It might have been a moment of "satori," as described by Clare Solloway, someone I've never heard of until her link came up in a search just now. The descriptions all seem fairly consistent, from one person to the next. She apparently has a "method." I don't know anything about that either.
I can't really say that this was THE defining moment for anything, but certainly one of them.
For a time in TWI I believed it might have been "possession." I probably put it out of my mind for a long time as a result.
--
I may have misunderstood your question. I've had countless incidents, or co-incidents/coincidences, "teasers," which seem to reveal patterns of sympathy between inner thoughts and the outer world.
Here's a recent example. Driving home from a "gig" (my latest bar band is a retro-rock/R&B thing, fun but otherwise unimpressive) a few weeks ago, I was thinking about the etymology of the word "gig." I couldn't guess what it might be, unless short for "engagement."
A few days later, a radio talk show had on a well-known etymology expert/writer, and someone called in to inquire about the etymology of the word, "gig."
Okay, it's a more popular word these days. In itself, it proves nothing. Many, many similar coincidental events prove nothing. But they do incline my imagination toward small "miracles."
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laleo
Yes, you understood (and answered) the question.
Which, to me, sounds similar to Aristotle's (or is it Plato's?) theory about goodness drawing people to itself. I think all sorts of doctrines, systems, theories have arisen to explain what many know but don't know about the experience of grace. Aristotle spent a lot of time coming up with an explanation for why some people flourish and others don't, why the "magic" follows some and not others. I think I like his conclusion, as far as these things go. Do good, and (hopefully) you'll find goodness.
Unfortunately, where things seem to fall apart is in replicating the experience of grace, which I guess is the best answer I have to your original question: Whose fault is if you don't flourish, don't prosper, don't find those moments of grace? I don't know the answer. Do you? Also, I wonder where those occasional moments of sadness come from when they don't follow a specific event or loss. Like, is despair also spiritual? Is it part of some universal experience?
More importantly, now that you brought it up, where did "gig" come from?
Glad you enjoying your gig, whatever its source, and whatever it means.
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satori001
Originally posted by laleo:
More importantly, now that you brought it up, where did "gig" come from?
The etymologist was stymied.
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jardinero
O.K. You got this jazz enthusiast's curiousity up, so I checked and found the following:
From: “Etymology of Jazzâ€
http://www.apassion4jazz.net/etymology.html
'gig' the musician's engagement, probably derives immediately from the 'gig' that is a dance or party, but 'gig' and 'gigi' (or 'giggy') also are old slang terms for the vulva; the first has been dated to the seventeenth century.
Also:
From: Word Origins: “Gâ€http://www.wordorigins.org/wordorg.htm
This brings us to the most common sense, that of a musician's engagement or job. The musical sense dates to 1926 and first arose as jazz slang in the US. But the origin is not in music. The use of gig to mean a non-musical job or occupation dates to 1908, and the sense of a business affair or event is a year older than that. The origin is unknown, but it may come from the slang term gag. This dates to 1890 and means business method, practice, or behavior. All these sense are American slang usages.
And, lastly:
Word Origins. by Stephen Neville
http://www.stc-soc.org/quill/2003-10/word_origins.html
GIG
Noun. Gig first appeared as a slang term among jazz musicians in the mid-1920's. Although mostly used as a noun, gig also has a verb form used in the uncommon word "gigging." The word itself connotes a short-term "one-night stand." Appearing in English in the 15th century, "gig" meant something spinning, like a "whirligig." Derived from that is a meaning of dancing, and since playing at parties and dances is every musician's meal ticket early in their career, it's easy to see how "gig" became generalized to mean any paying job.
Interesting discussion also.
J.
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