It has someone named Sue Martin asking "Did you know that when a person makes a contribution to the Nazi Party that they are sent a pamphlet written by Dr. Wierwille?"
"No I did not know that until right now Where did you find out your information from
Sue?"
The question is never answered.
I'm looking into it. I'll let you know if anything pans out.
I never heard anything about it...and I dont know if it means anything but FWIW- he sat out WWII, when just about everyone that i have ever met from his generation went
and his 'theology' ( *gag*) was to form some sort of 'Master Group' of humans that were far superior to everyone else, sort of like a Master Race.
if it came out that its true it wouldn't surprise me
discussing M@ch@@l R**d, lim co-rdintator of our nations capitol-
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Reading various articles about The Way reveals charges of anti-Semitism because Way followers were told to read, "The Myth of the Six Million" and "The Hoax of the Twentieth Century", which at the very least casts doubt on the Holocaust. Some ex-Wayers have stated that Wierwille and other Way leaders taught that the Holocaust was a myth concocted by the Jews. 12 Wierwille also taught that "Jews are actually an impostor tribe from Siberia, not the Bible's chosen people." 13
According to Karl Kahler, ex-way member,
"....[Wierwille] sided with neo-Nazis in claiming that the Holocaust either never happened or was grossly exaggerated by pity-seeking Jews. The Jews probably topped the list of people he hated most, although there was plenty of room for the Catholics and mainstream Protestants. He also hated and feared the IRS and the FBI, but his most paranoid fantasies were reserved for the communists." 14
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
12. Washington Post, Sandra G. Boodman, Washington Post Staff Writer October 13, 1981; Page A1, The Way of Many
These are the most prominate articles and discussions on ole Vic and Jews.
Karl Kahler is a "member" of GSC but I don't know if he still hangs out, so to speak, but there are many people here who I am sure will share their own experiences.
i don't know how to verify this. given the myth of the 6 million and other views, german ancestry, it seems possible.
Does anyone know if there was a connection between vpw and the nazi party? and if so was that support ever mentioned like his support for the republican party was?
Mell, I've never seen any evidence of same.
Some folks like to say he was a nazi but he loved the freedom we enjoyed in this country and wasn't into military dictatorship.
From what I know he didn't believe in the holocaust and thought that issue was (and still is) being used for billions of American money earmarked for Israel. But last time I checked, believing all that does not make someone a nazi. It takes a bit more I would say.
Nazi's murdered Jews and others. Some of VP's ways were repugnant but he shouldn't be accused of being a murderer.
Seems that folks who don't believe in the holocaust are automatically labelled anti-semitic and that's a tactic being used for decades. One step further and they are nazis. To me, it's all namecalling propaganda.
One more thought, I wouldn't suggest him a nazi because he's German. That's a no no.
It has been my understanding that VPW's family were German Immigrants. They spoke German in their homes, and thus taught it to their children. It was fairly obvious to me, that VPW highly respected the Germans, and he spoke of making trips to Germany to review manuscripts held there in various museums.
It is also my understanding that among Germans living in Germany during WWII, as well as among Germans living abroad; that a general 'disbelief' has been held by a majority of them regarding the claims of the 'holocaust'. Germans living in Germany simply did not believe that they own countrymen had done such horrible deeds. Germans living abroad knew their cousins, their friends, their grandparents still living in Germany and as such refused to believe that their relatives and friends had fell to such depravities.
As time goes on, and more proofs and first-hand testimonies and the pictures and documents of both; the 'medical' experimentations and the mass killings have been published: it seems obvious that ALL Germans everywhere must eventually come to terms with what their own countrymen did during WWII. Even if that coming to terms, is only to blame it all upon the 'Nazi' party and what the party-leadership told them to do.
To me, looking at VPW teaching in the 60's and 70's; I don’t have a difficult time understanding and even empathizing with his point of view. He had been there, his parents and grandparents no doubt often spoke of relatives and friends in Germany. He was raised to highly respect his country of origin. To attempt to explain it all away, or blame it all on a hoax; to me would only be 'natural', until the point eventually where he and his relatives could all finally settle in their minds that yes he own relatives could have done such. Make a trip there even today and you kind of wonder; "Gee, there walks an old man with a limp, I wonder what injuries he sustained during the war, I wonder what his role was in it all".
I don't know about VP, but I distinctly remember Craiggers saying at his PFAL (not WAP) AC (for grads of VP's class) in Rome City that he thought we were on the wrong side in WWII! It's amazing how silent a room can get when someone says something so blatantly moronic!
Years ago in a public meeting in New York, I heard V*n*e F*nn*g*n say "maybe Hitler wasn't wrong after all."
Typical. Just parroting his "daddy" in da verd..
I have heard similar statements out of the mouth of several "leaders"- almost all limb guys here with the exception of Ralph D. I heard similar statements out of the mouth of branch leadership. One thing you can say, "that kind" of belief was PERVASIVE.
Most of my observations were before Loy came to power. Who was in charge of that show?
You may merely accuse them of being over-zealous or something, but to me it is obvious that they learned it somewhere.
If it looks like Nazi, smells like Nazi, I would venture to say that it IS Nazi. Maybe not in membership, but as Catcup said, definitely in ideology.
Just got thinking of another little principle- out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. They were so filled with that junk, they couldn't help themselves.
I think what the bast**ds blurted out was just the tip of the iceberg.
I do recall GREAT distaste being conveyed about those rejecting Jesus Christ as God's son...
This included those that weren't interested in PFAL, WOAP & TWI ~ if someone wasn't interested in what we had to say, they were REJECTING GOD and his Word~
What got me was that despite the fact he was not teaching this theory out of his "biblical research" at all so many of us assumed that if he espoused something it must be right.
I read Koestler and found it interesting but not convincing and still could not link this with the holocaust denial stance that VP espoused.
And there were occasions when he questioned if we had been fighting the wrong foe.
One thing is certain, VP hated Communism far more than he did Nazism
Some other religious people hated communism far worse than Nazism, and for that reason, helped hide Nazis in the vatican and spirit them away to Argentina: Pope Pius XII along with the vatican college, and a host of cardinals and bishops.
Stanley Reahard posted on waydale that she and Bo were at a night owl at HQ in 1981 in which VP said the US fought on the wrong side in WW2. Later she was telling Bo they ought to leave right then, but they stayed around for a few more years.
Some other religious people hated communism far worse than Nazism, and for that reason, helped hide Nazis in the vatican and spirit them away to Argentina: Pope Pius XII along with the vatican college, and a host of cardinals and bishops.
...and in doing so they were complicit in the murders of all those people.
And anyone, and I do mean ANYONE who embraces Nazi ideology, whether they carry the party's card or not, is not far from bloodstained. I don't care how many years have passed since the holocaust.
Embracing the ideology perpetuates the hate and inspires monsters in waiting.
Yes...I heard that stuff with my own ears. Veepee down playing the holocost, embracing nazi ideologies, and yes, stating that we were on the wrong side in WW11.
When you think about it, the lofty position of power and influence that Wierwille had was not far from being a nazi tyrant...He took great pride in his German ancestory...
Just because he was a deceiving, cheating, lying, plagerising, egomaniac, delusional, pompous, idiotic, worthless bag of .... . . . that doesn't make him a nazi.
The last full day he was in California, Wierwille got up in the morning saying he would like to go get a massage and could we recommend a professional establishment. We found one the in the yellow pages for him. Del Duncan driving, V.P. in the front seat and Steve and I in the backseat. As were were driving in the car I asked V.P. who Hitler was spiritually. I took the opportunity to ask him a question that had been burning in me all my life. Knowing he had made statements to me in the past that Hitler knew showmanship, he knew how to get a crowd worked up. V.P. learned to enter from the back of an auditorium with the lights out and spotlights following him as he entered with a lot of fanfare. He said to me, "Hitler was right. He just became devil possessed in the end. You should read Mein Kopf sometime."
"Yes...I heard that stuff with my own ears. Veepee down playing the holocost, embracing nazi ideologies, and yes, stating that we were on the wrong side in WW11."
As I stated previously I do see that so totally out of place, considering his ancestry.
"When you think about it, the lofty position of power and influence that Wierwille had was not far from being a nazi tyrant...He took great pride in his German ancestory...
I have seen many people who are proud of their ancestry. Is that a bad thing?
Immediately after this last return stateside, I was surprized each time I heard someone saying that they were proud of being an Italian. I was commonly asking people what part of it they were 'proud' of. I even offended a few here on GS. Having lived in that culture, I was very much amazed at their 'distasteful' habits. The Police brutality; the levels of urine in their city drinking water; the complete lack of women's Rights; their insistance on blood-retributions; and the fact that anyone of them will sale their wife, mother, sister or daughter to you for a pack of Marlboros.
No, I was wrong. Everyone should be able to be proud of their heritage.
The more so for those who grew up in America, and only heard storys about their native country from their relatives.
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lindyhopper
Perhaps the article you are refering to is thisGoing My Way from the early 80's
It has someone named Sue Martin asking "Did you know that when a person makes a contribution to the Nazi Party that they are sent a pamphlet written by Dr. Wierwille?"
"No I did not know that until right now Where did you find out your information from
Sue?"
The question is never answered.
I'm looking into it. I'll let you know if anything pans out.
Sue, If you visit here, Come Forth!
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mstar1
I never heard anything about it...and I dont know if it means anything but FWIW- he sat out WWII, when just about everyone that i have ever met from his generation went
and his 'theology' ( *gag*) was to form some sort of 'Master Group' of humans that were far superior to everyone else, sort of like a Master Race.
if it came out that its true it wouldn't surprise me
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sharon
quoted from http://www.seekgod.ca
discussing M@ch@@l R**d, lim co-rdintator of our nations capitol-
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Reading various articles about The Way reveals charges of anti-Semitism because Way followers were told to read, "The Myth of the Six Million" and "The Hoax of the Twentieth Century", which at the very least casts doubt on the Holocaust. Some ex-Wayers have stated that Wierwille and other Way leaders taught that the Holocaust was a myth concocted by the Jews. 12 Wierwille also taught that "Jews are actually an impostor tribe from Siberia, not the Bible's chosen people." 13
According to Karl Kahler, ex-way member,
"....[Wierwille] sided with neo-Nazis in claiming that the Holocaust either never happened or was grossly exaggerated by pity-seeking Jews. The Jews probably topped the list of people he hated most, although there was plenty of room for the Catholics and mainstream Protestants. He also hated and feared the IRS and the FBI, but his most paranoid fantasies were reserved for the communists." 14
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
12. Washington Post, Sandra G. Boodman, Washington Post Staff Writer October 13, 1981; Page A1, The Way of Many
13. Core Beliefs, http://www.trancenet.org/noway/secrets/core.shtml
14. op cit., Kahler, p. 17
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
a letter to-Dr. Juedes
from- T.J.Johnson a member of twi, for 20 years and who was part of the faculty at the Way College of Emporia-
http://www.empirenet.com/~messiah7/ltr_johnson.htm
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`~~~~~~~~~
Report Published by the Anti-Defamation League of B’Nai B’Rith
http://www.excultworld.com/misc%20stuff/adl.htm
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
thread on 13th tribe
http://gscafe.com/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/1...552/m/327108214
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
These are the most prominate articles and discussions on ole Vic and Jews.
Karl Kahler is a "member" of GSC but I don't know if he still hangs out, so to speak, but there are many people here who I am sure will share their own experiences.
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oldiesman
Mell, I've never seen any evidence of same.
Some folks like to say he was a nazi but he loved the freedom we enjoyed in this country and wasn't into military dictatorship.
From what I know he didn't believe in the holocaust and thought that issue was (and still is) being used for billions of American money earmarked for Israel. But last time I checked, believing all that does not make someone a nazi. It takes a bit more I would say.
Nazi's murdered Jews and others. Some of VP's ways were repugnant but he shouldn't be accused of being a murderer.
Seems that folks who don't believe in the holocaust are automatically labelled anti-semitic and that's a tactic being used for decades. One step further and they are nazis. To me, it's all namecalling propaganda.
One more thought, I wouldn't suggest him a nazi because he's German. That's a no no.
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WordWolf
Let's see....
He pushed books that said that the Holocaust was manufactured or wildly
exaggerated.
I believe this has been disproven beyond a reasonable doubt.
(I believed that before I met a non-Jewish holocaust camp survivor,
complete with number.)
He pushed books that said that "Jews" weren't really the Jews of the
Old Testament.
This has been disproven with DNA evidence.
He was against money going to Israel.
He supported various conspiracy theories saying this country was going to
face some uprising, and supported everyone having firearms experience and
a firearm.
===========
He may or may not have made comments that are clearly pro-Nazi, blatantly
racist, and so on. However, I was not privy to those discussions.
I do not know he did NOT make such comments.
Some people will assume that if they didn't see it, vpw didn't do it.
I'm not ready to make such a leap.
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Galen
It has been my understanding that VPW's family were German Immigrants. They spoke German in their homes, and thus taught it to their children. It was fairly obvious to me, that VPW highly respected the Germans, and he spoke of making trips to Germany to review manuscripts held there in various museums.
It is also my understanding that among Germans living in Germany during WWII, as well as among Germans living abroad; that a general 'disbelief' has been held by a majority of them regarding the claims of the 'holocaust'. Germans living in Germany simply did not believe that they own countrymen had done such horrible deeds. Germans living abroad knew their cousins, their friends, their grandparents still living in Germany and as such refused to believe that their relatives and friends had fell to such depravities.
As time goes on, and more proofs and first-hand testimonies and the pictures and documents of both; the 'medical' experimentations and the mass killings have been published: it seems obvious that ALL Germans everywhere must eventually come to terms with what their own countrymen did during WWII. Even if that coming to terms, is only to blame it all upon the 'Nazi' party and what the party-leadership told them to do.
To me, looking at VPW teaching in the 60's and 70's; I don’t have a difficult time understanding and even empathizing with his point of view. He had been there, his parents and grandparents no doubt often spoke of relatives and friends in Germany. He was raised to highly respect his country of origin. To attempt to explain it all away, or blame it all on a hoax; to me would only be 'natural', until the point eventually where he and his relatives could all finally settle in their minds that yes he own relatives could have done such. Make a trip there even today and you kind of wonder; "Gee, there walks an old man with a limp, I wonder what injuries he sustained during the war, I wonder what his role was in it all".
:-)
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GeorgeStGeorge
I don't know about VP, but I distinctly remember Craiggers saying at his PFAL (not WAP) AC (for grads of VP's class) in Rome City that he thought we were on the wrong side in WWII!
It's amazing how silent a room can get when someone says something so blatantly moronic!
George
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oldiesman
Years ago in a public meeting in New York, I heard V*n*e F*nn*g*n say "maybe Hitler wasn't wrong after all."
I thought the statement was repugnant and in very poor taste.
But it doesn't make him a nazi.
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Catcup
Maybe not a card-carrying member of the Nazi party, but the ideology is the same.
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Ham
Typical. Just parroting his "daddy" in da verd..
I have heard similar statements out of the mouth of several "leaders"- almost all limb guys here with the exception of Ralph D. I heard similar statements out of the mouth of branch leadership. One thing you can say, "that kind" of belief was PERVASIVE.
Most of my observations were before Loy came to power. Who was in charge of that show?
You may merely accuse them of being over-zealous or something, but to me it is obvious that they learned it somewhere.
If it looks like Nazi, smells like Nazi, I would venture to say that it IS Nazi. Maybe not in membership, but as Catcup said, definitely in ideology.
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Ham
Just got thinking of another little principle- out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. They were so filled with that junk, they couldn't help themselves.
I think what the bast**ds blurted out was just the tip of the iceberg.
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SafariVista
I do recall GREAT distaste being conveyed about those rejecting Jesus Christ as God's son...
This included those that weren't interested in PFAL, WOAP & TWI ~ if someone wasn't interested in what we had to say, they were REJECTING GOD and his Word~
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Trefor Heywood
What got me was that despite the fact he was not teaching this theory out of his "biblical research" at all so many of us assumed that if he espoused something it must be right.
I read Koestler and found it interesting but not convincing and still could not link this with the holocaust denial stance that VP espoused.
And there were occasions when he questioned if we had been fighting the wrong foe.
One thing is certain, VP hated Communism far more than he did Nazism
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oldiesman
Here's another certainty:
WEEKEND!
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Catcup
Some other religious people hated communism far worse than Nazism, and for that reason, helped hide Nazis in the vatican and spirit them away to Argentina: Pope Pius XII along with the vatican college, and a host of cardinals and bishops.
VP was more Catholic than he knew.
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johniam
Stanley Reahard posted on waydale that she and Bo were at a night owl at HQ in 1981 in which VP said the US fought on the wrong side in WW2. Later she was telling Bo they ought to leave right then, but they stayed around for a few more years.
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lindyhopper
...and in doing so they were complicit in the murders of all those people.
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Catcup
Exactly.
And anyone, and I do mean ANYONE who embraces Nazi ideology, whether they carry the party's card or not, is not far from bloodstained. I don't care how many years have passed since the holocaust.
Embracing the ideology perpetuates the hate and inspires monsters in waiting.
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GrouchoMarxJr
Yes...I heard that stuff with my own ears. Veepee down playing the holocost, embracing nazi ideologies, and yes, stating that we were on the wrong side in WW11.
When you think about it, the lofty position of power and influence that Wierwille had was not far from being a nazi tyrant...He took great pride in his German ancestory...
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WeWereScammed
Just because he was a deceiving, cheating, lying, plagerising, egomaniac, delusional, pompous, idiotic, worthless bag of .... . . . that doesn't make him a nazi.
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excathedra
from jim doop's (unpublished) book -
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Galen
GrouchoMarxJr:
"Yes...I heard that stuff with my own ears. Veepee down playing the holocost, embracing nazi ideologies, and yes, stating that we were on the wrong side in WW11."
As I stated previously I do see that so totally out of place, considering his ancestry.
"When you think about it, the lofty position of power and influence that Wierwille had was not far from being a nazi tyrant...He took great pride in his German ancestory...
I have seen many people who are proud of their ancestry. Is that a bad thing?
Immediately after this last return stateside, I was surprized each time I heard someone saying that they were proud of being an Italian. I was commonly asking people what part of it they were 'proud' of. I even offended a few here on GS. Having lived in that culture, I was very much amazed at their 'distasteful' habits. The Police brutality; the levels of urine in their city drinking water; the complete lack of women's Rights; their insistance on blood-retributions; and the fact that anyone of them will sale their wife, mother, sister or daughter to you for a pack of Marlboros.
No, I was wrong. Everyone should be able to be proud of their heritage.
The more so for those who grew up in America, and only heard storys about their native country from their relatives.
:-)
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coolchef1248 @adelphia.net
veep pee ---- hitler
both knew how to use people
both knew how to use smoke and mirrors
both knew how to hold multitudes rapt with thier babblings for hours
maybe they were related?
but seriously....hitler killed the good way. when you were dead you were dead.
vee pee killed the hearts and spirit of many and they still suffer.
shame on you veepee wish they would let me in to pee on you
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TheEvan
Dang, exc. Wow. I'm not surprised and I believe it...
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