BTW, revelation=spies. Know who your friends are and who you say anything to.
Also, Beware because sometimes they don't know but they hope you'll be dumb enough to admit it.
Of course sometimes they're on a witch(or devil spirit) hunt and they want someone to incriminate anyone.
Then there are those who may actually have permission and try to lure you in(it looks like I won't tell if you won't...unfortunately one is lying)so they can report you to the exorcist squad.
If you trust people too much, they might put a knife in your back.
This question reminds me of all the Wonderful People/Families that were affected by the insane revelation the leadership was supposably getting...
Many still in were affected by these sudden changes, and had no way of finding out the truth from their friends and family without 'doing something' or talking to someone they weren't suppose to.
Can you see the leadership, sitting around the big table during one of their planning meetings... being assured that God works in them... and as leaders, they have a responsiblity to keep 'the household' clean...Yes.. a clean-up meeting~ Special Request From Headquarters! (complete with paper work to let everyone know just EXACTLY HOW to have it done too)
They have guided prayer and manifestations... and then are told to keep thier eyes closed, instructed at that point to respond with a name when they hear the word or phrase spoken...
HOMO... d*ck in mouth... symphathizer... with-holding ABS... disobedient wife... homo children... questioning leadership... secrect debt... going to forbidden Web sites... not following through with Twig Coordinators orders... lying... refusing sex...
How else would leadership's strange behavior have come about?
Could THEIR first thoughts have been wrong... maybe they were thinking about some of those people in not so 'Christian' ways... and that's why they were 'on their minds & in their thoughts'....
Innies~ ask questions PLEASE.... isn't that what we tell our children... that it's okay to ask questions... It's the NOT asking and never finding out that is not GOOD!!!
When I first got involved, everybody got revelation. "Father, which way do I turn, right or left?" - "God, do I buy Tide or Surf to clean my clothes in?"; as ridiculous as it sometimes was, everybody was equal, and many of us were convinced that we were receiving revelation, why not the leaders?
Later, probably the 90's, it was the leaders who got revelation because...uh...they were leaders!
We were led by the hand (or the ring in our collective nose) to believe that of course leaders were getting revelation, that us "true believers" never gave it a second thought unless we were willing to chuck it all.
They have guided prayer and manifestations... and then are told to keep their eyes closed, instructed at that point to respond with a name when they hear the word or phrase spoken...
SV -- ya forgot the "led by the spirit" part.
Do they still serve Drambui at those meetings.? -->
Yes, I did think that they would get revelation that I had visited verbotten websites. Yes, I did think that they would get revelation that I was witholding from them. Yes, I did think that horrible things were going to befall me for not "living the word" according to their doctrines.
Yes, I was a walking ball of fear, paranoia and oppression.
But then, I realized that they had no clue what I was doing and thinking. Then I learned more about what frauds they were from the people who were posting. Then I started seeing it in the local leadership and recognizing the manipulation techniques that they were using. I began to question things and through their answers and how they dealt with me began to see how incompetent they are.
They don't scare me anymore. I laugh to think that I actually gave them any kind of power over me and that they really do think that they have a private line to God.
I think Moneyhands "revelation" that my ex's dad was possessed and needed to be excommunicated from us was a "convenient" revelation just because Moneyhands didn't like the guy. What a way to get revenge or pull a passive-aggressive attack on someone who annoys you....get "revelation" that they have a devil spirit party going on and should be avoided.
let's assume that they DO receive da big word of knowledge, word of wisdom, and discerning of internet spirits.
Obviously, it cannot be wrong in the sight of the almighty to view or post here, as many have, and the almighty won't tell them A SINGLE WORD about it.
I have been contacted by several innies in a few different states (one contacted me today actually) and they all agree that they do not think that their leader.... receives revelation.
One of the innies was around a lot of top leaders recently and had some concerns about getting caught lurking on here but not one person mentioned anything, acted differently or suspicious.....just SSDD.
BTW, the innies I am in contact with are still involved for the same reasons I stayed around for so long after wanting out.....family and marriage commitment being primary reasons.
I really feel bad for those who want to get out but feel there is no place to go. is there some sort of thing in place that can help those who leave?
Yes - It's called the Grease Spot Cafe.
I don't know of too many people who have left who instantly lost their homes, jobs, etc., - most had whatever they needed to survive (housing, food, employment, etc.). The biggest need people seem to have is SUPPORT, which is something they can certainly get here.
I will say this, not to derail the thread, but just a "food for thought".... the climate at GSC seems a bit less welcoming than that of Waydale. It has nothing to do with the webmaster, Sir Pawtucketer, or anyone else in particular, but as a whole this can be a critical bunch to new posters on the board. Yes, we've had our share of trolls, but I know of a couple of instances where newbies got piled up on (pick any Momentus thread for an example), and ended up leaving quicker than they found the place. Too bad, really. I believe this group, in all it's diversity, has a lot to offer and is really a good group of people - but perhaps, and for good reason, a bit calloused...
One thing that really made it seem like leadership was walking was when you'd be called on to pray for certain things at meetings....
"Johnny, please lift the Board of Trustees and the root locals."
"Jane, please lift the Way Corps on the field and in training."
The leaders were so "in control" of each meeting. Everything was so "decent and in order" that it was mark against the leadership if anything "unscripted" happened. I remember my husband getting reproved for praying for something that he wasn't told to pray for - whoop-dee-doo! Like, was God not going to honor his prayer because he didn't have "permission" to pray for whatever it was that was on his heart? Twits!
I think that maybe 1% of reproof that happened, that I was a part of (receiving end, that is) was from revelation. I'd say 69% of it was because someone either tattled or had a personal agenda. The other 30% was just me being wonderful me (in other words, I had it coming and knew it. Yeah... I'm a brat!)
I remember back on Waydale there was an excellent thread called the "Emperor's New Clothes" or something like that. Basically it was a good discussion of the lengths that TWI went to to make us think they were "really sompin' good!"
The leaders were so "in control" of each meeting. Everything was so "decent and in order" that it was mark against the leadership if anything "unscripted" happened.
This reminds me of a Corps Grad...she was our fellowship coordinator, and one of the believer's teenage son was interested in the Word. (the Mom was So excited that he 'finially wanted the Word) He was fairly modern w/ lots of earrings & 'in' clothes. Corps girl requested that he remove the earrings.
He was a bit put off by all of it, and didn't appreciate all of her ragging~... so we asked (in private) why he had to take the earrings off... she said she had to KNOW that he would OBEY HER!!! The guy ended up never coming back~
Leadership thought a bit too highly of themselves... control trips!
Don't recall seeing too many examples of leadership being the greatest servants
One thing that really made it seem like leadership was walking was when you'd be called on to pray for certain things at meetings .... The leaders were so "in control" of each meeting.
But that was the method of how almost all fellowships were done.
Was that supposed to be done by Revelation?
I have led many twigs, and coordinated the prayers as such. I went around the room, and tried to give everyone a chance to pray.
quote:
"I think that maybe 1% of reproof that happened, that I was a part of (receiving end, that is) was from revelation. I'd say 69% of it was because someone either tattled or had a personal agenda. The other 30% was just me being wonderful me (in other words, I had it coming and knew it. Yeah... I'm a brat!)"
I dont recall any of their getting in my face, that could have had anything to do with revelation. There were times where someone 'finked' on me. Or else it was because I was simply not complying with the corporate image.
Once I had a muzzle-laoding rifle [that I had built, and that I used weekly] hanging on the wall up over the front door in our living room. I was 'reproved' for it, as it might frighten people coming into my home.
Most of the time that someone tried to get in my face, it was always over their desire to force me to go WOW or WC. Recruitment!!!
"G-d told me that He wants you to go WOW, now why are you refusing to do God's Will in your life"?
Was a common phrase that I heard at annual limb meetings.
It never occured to me that revelation was involved, I always called them on it and I made a point of publicaly showing everyone within ear shot of how they were twisting things. Why would G-d tell you anything, if He has not told me first. Straight PFAL, shut them down everytime.
One thing that really made it seem like leadership was walking was when you'd be called on to pray for certain things at meetings .... The leaders were so "in control" of each meeting.
But that was the method of how almost all fellowships were done.
Was that supposed to be done by Revelation?
Galen -- I agree. That's the way it was done at our fellowships too, and I never thought that they asked "so-and-so" to pray for "such-and-such" because of revelation -- I just thought they were *covering all the bases*. Sometimes I did wonder if they were "mandated" to make sure the entirety of twi got prayed for -- but I was never curious enough to ask.
That being said -- I can also see how some fellowship leaders might've tried to give out that they were *the great one from God*, and that everything they did in twig was by *rev*. :D-->
Interesting... during a leaders meeting we were instructed to STAY in control of the meeting. (This would have been about 2000-2001)
People in the fellowship were not to pray for things they were not asked to.... this was a time when people were getting accused of things, and some were asking questions...
Questions were frowned upon... by a frown, I mean they were given unrelated answers, geared to shovel out guilt... Some of the answers were right out lies... like why some regulars quit coming... everyone was told not to believe them... lots of strange stuff~
Most people in our area wanted to know what TWI was going to DO about Martindales mess up's... and they had questions about those too... how many? how long has this been going on? were there others close to him that knew about this and didn't speak up?...
How MUCH did TWI pay out for all of these law suits...
To answer questions... we looked at the Greasespot Cafe... no one knew... except after knowing that so much junk was being covered... we could no longer have fellowships & be coordinators... we just resigned & didn't answer the phone for a couple of days :)-->
'People in the fellowship were not to pray for things they were not asked to....'
This was happening earlier than 2001 or so in our area. Maybe '97?
This is what I remember about prayer in fellowship. We once(80s, early 90s) got together and prayed for personal needs to be met, even ministered to each other, but that ended unless the HFC got 'rev' to have people pray for 'what was on their hearts.' If you wanted ministered to you talked to the HFC after fellowship.
People would have huge needs--health, finances, whatever, right in the fellowship, but those went unprayed for--we always prayed for LCM and HQ, though.
Of course, later in the nineties it was actually better if you had a huge need that didn't get prayed for--because having a huge need meant you were weak shi+ and that would bring nothing good.
I remember that we didn't pray or even tell our fellowship that one of our kids had pnuemonia. At the time, I as pretty upset and did NOT want to hear the reproof. I figured it would hurt my believing for the kid to get well.
Yes Bramble... this had been going on for years... Why? (I asked --> ) BECAUSE listening to people drone on about their problems... speaking negatives would bring negatives into the fellowship... What would NEW people think if they heard that kind of talk? this was the concern~
MORE control was demanded near 2000...
One young 6th or 7th grade girl, daughter of one of the coordinators, was being stalked by a man in a car on her way walking home from school. She had to walk home because the parents were both at work. She brought it up at fellowship, and her mother IMMEDIATELY cut her off and reproved her. How dare she speak negatives, or let anyone hear their business....
I thought that was particularly odd, since at that same time every day, I was JUST AROUND the corner, leaving work... I would have happily picked her up at school and dropped her off at her front door.
TWI has turned into something very ugly... full of fear!
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signals
Yeah! Inquiring minds want to know.
BTW, revelation=spies. Know who your friends are and who you say anything to.
Also, Beware because sometimes they don't know but they hope you'll be dumb enough to admit it.
Of course sometimes they're on a witch(or devil spirit) hunt and they want someone to incriminate anyone.
Then there are those who may actually have permission and try to lure you in(it looks like I won't tell if you won't...unfortunately one is lying)so they can report you to the exorcist squad.
If you trust people too much, they might put a knife in your back.
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SafariVista
TWI has some mighty long claws in people~
This question reminds me of all the Wonderful People/Families that were affected by the insane revelation the leadership was supposably getting...
Many still in were affected by these sudden changes, and had no way of finding out the truth from their friends and family without 'doing something' or talking to someone they weren't suppose to.
Can you see the leadership, sitting around the big table during one of their planning meetings... being assured that God works in them... and as leaders, they have a responsiblity to keep 'the household' clean...Yes.. a clean-up meeting~ Special Request From Headquarters! (complete with paper work to let everyone know just EXACTLY HOW to have it done too)
They have guided prayer and manifestations... and then are told to keep thier eyes closed, instructed at that point to respond with a name when they hear the word or phrase spoken...
HOMO... d*ck in mouth... symphathizer... with-holding ABS... disobedient wife... homo children... questioning leadership... secrect debt... going to forbidden Web sites... not following through with Twig Coordinators orders... lying... refusing sex...
How else would leadership's strange behavior have come about?
Could THEIR first thoughts have been wrong... maybe they were thinking about some of those people in not so 'Christian' ways... and that's why they were 'on their minds & in their thoughts'....
Innies~ ask questions PLEASE.... isn't that what we tell our children... that it's okay to ask questions... It's the NOT asking and never finding out that is not GOOD!!!
Love to you all
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Steve!
Why would anyone want to be a part of an organization like that? How Godly is that? And you think God has nothing better out there?
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GrouchoMarxJr
twi leaders receive revelation???
Oh my Gawd!...If God ever spoke to Rozilla the rug muncher, she would probably die on the spot and all her bodily fluids would run out on the floor.
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Zshot
Very good questions...
Why would anyone choose to be part of a group in which you are afraid to say what you think because of reprecutions from leader.... in that group?
Or, have a different point of view on things political or social of what the leader.... has?
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Oakspear
When I first got involved, everybody got revelation. "Father, which way do I turn, right or left?" - "God, do I buy Tide or Surf to clean my clothes in?"; as ridiculous as it sometimes was, everybody was equal, and many of us were convinced that we were receiving revelation, why not the leaders?
Later, probably the 90's, it was the leaders who got revelation because...uh...they were leaders!
We were led by the hand (or the ring in our collective nose) to believe that of course leaders were getting revelation, that us "true believers" never gave it a second thought unless we were willing to chuck it all.
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dmiller
SV -- ya forgot the "led by the spirit" part.
Do they still serve Drambui at those meetings.?
-->
That might account for the *closed eyes*.
David
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TheInvisibleDan
(Gasp) The singing fat ladies weren't "by revelation"?
That one must most surely be divine!
God has a wicked sense of humor.
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Belle
Yes, I did think that they would get revelation that I had visited verbotten websites. Yes, I did think that they would get revelation that I was witholding from them. Yes, I did think that horrible things were going to befall me for not "living the word" according to their doctrines.
Yes, I was a walking ball of fear, paranoia and oppression.
But then, I realized that they had no clue what I was doing and thinking. Then I learned more about what frauds they were from the people who were posting. Then I started seeing it in the local leadership and recognizing the manipulation techniques that they were using. I began to question things and through their answers and how they dealt with me began to see how incompetent they are.
They don't scare me anymore. I laugh to think that I actually gave them any kind of power over me and that they really do think that they have a private line to God.
I think Moneyhands "revelation" that my ex's dad was possessed and needed to be excommunicated from us was a "convenient" revelation just because Moneyhands didn't like the guy. What a way to get revenge or pull a passive-aggressive attack on someone who annoys you....get "revelation" that they have a devil spirit party going on and should be avoided.
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Ham
Perhaps just a small logical point..
let's assume that they DO receive da big word of knowledge, word of wisdom, and discerning of internet spirits.
Obviously, it cannot be wrong in the sight of the almighty to view or post here, as many have, and the almighty won't tell them A SINGLE WORD about it.
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signals
Steve! I'm on your side. But since you asked, this is TWI and the world in general!
;)-->
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outandabout
Excellent post, Belle!
I remember the same paranoia.
Where are the innies this question is addressed to?
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Steve!
Well, of course it's the world in general.
It's just that in a Christian organization, you should feel free to let your guard down. You shouldn't have to always be looking over your shoulder.
Someone once said that true Christianity is the way of a Father with His family. Is that the kind of family you would want to be a part of?
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Belle
Thanks, outandabout.
:)-->
I have been contacted by several innies in a few different states (one contacted me today actually) and they all agree that they do not think that their leader.... receives revelation.
One of the innies was around a lot of top leaders recently and had some concerns about getting caught lurking on here but not one person mentioned anything, acted differently or suspicious.....just SSDD.
BTW, the innies I am in contact with are still involved for the same reasons I stayed around for so long after wanting out.....family and marriage commitment being primary reasons.
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Out There
I really feel bad for those who want to get out but feel there is no place to go. is there some sort of thing in place that can help those who leave?
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signals
That's one reason I got out when I did. At first I would trust anyone, then someone gave me a reason to not trust anyone.
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ChasUFarley
Yes - It's called the Grease Spot Cafe.
I don't know of too many people who have left who instantly lost their homes, jobs, etc., - most had whatever they needed to survive (housing, food, employment, etc.). The biggest need people seem to have is SUPPORT, which is something they can certainly get here.
I will say this, not to derail the thread, but just a "food for thought".... the climate at GSC seems a bit less welcoming than that of Waydale. It has nothing to do with the webmaster, Sir Pawtucketer, or anyone else in particular, but as a whole this can be a critical bunch to new posters on the board. Yes, we've had our share of trolls, but I know of a couple of instances where newbies got piled up on (pick any Momentus thread for an example), and ended up leaving quicker than they found the place. Too bad, really. I believe this group, in all it's diversity, has a lot to offer and is really a good group of people - but perhaps, and for good reason, a bit calloused...
Peace.
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ChasUFarley
Back to the thread --
One thing that really made it seem like leadership was walking was when you'd be called on to pray for certain things at meetings....
"Johnny, please lift the Board of Trustees and the root locals."
"Jane, please lift the Way Corps on the field and in training."
The leaders were so "in control" of each meeting. Everything was so "decent and in order" that it was mark against the leadership if anything "unscripted" happened. I remember my husband getting reproved for praying for something that he wasn't told to pray for - whoop-dee-doo! Like, was God not going to honor his prayer because he didn't have "permission" to pray for whatever it was that was on his heart? Twits!
I think that maybe 1% of reproof that happened, that I was a part of (receiving end, that is) was from revelation. I'd say 69% of it was because someone either tattled or had a personal agenda. The other 30% was just me being wonderful me (in other words, I had it coming and knew it. Yeah... I'm a brat!)
I remember back on Waydale there was an excellent thread called the "Emperor's New Clothes" or something like that. Basically it was a good discussion of the lengths that TWI went to to make us think they were "really sompin' good!"
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SafariVista
Quote from ChasUFarley`
The leaders were so "in control" of each meeting. Everything was so "decent and in order" that it was mark against the leadership if anything "unscripted" happened.
This reminds me of a Corps Grad...she was our fellowship coordinator, and one of the believer's teenage son was interested in the Word. (the Mom was So excited that he 'finially wanted the Word) He was fairly modern w/ lots of earrings & 'in' clothes. Corps girl requested that he remove the earrings.
He was a bit put off by all of it, and didn't appreciate all of her ragging~... so we asked (in private) why he had to take the earrings off... she said she had to KNOW that he would OBEY HER!!!
The guy ended up never coming back~
Leadership thought a bit too highly of themselves... control trips!
Don't recall seeing too many examples of leadership being the greatest servants
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Galen
But that was the method of how almost all fellowships were done.
Was that supposed to be done by Revelation?
I have led many twigs, and coordinated the prayers as such. I went around the room, and tried to give everyone a chance to pray.
I dont recall any of their getting in my face, that could have had anything to do with revelation. There were times where someone 'finked' on me. Or else it was because I was simply not complying with the corporate image.
Once I had a muzzle-laoding rifle [that I had built, and that I used weekly] hanging on the wall up over the front door in our living room. I was 'reproved' for it, as it might frighten people coming into my home.
Most of the time that someone tried to get in my face, it was always over their desire to force me to go WOW or WC. Recruitment!!!
"G-d told me that He wants you to go WOW, now why are you refusing to do God's Will in your life"?
Was a common phrase that I heard at annual limb meetings.
It never occured to me that revelation was involved, I always called them on it and I made a point of publicaly showing everyone within ear shot of how they were twisting things. Why would G-d tell you anything, if He has not told me first. Straight PFAL, shut them down everytime.
:-)
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dmiller
Galen -- I agree. That's the way it was done at our fellowships too, and I never thought that they asked "so-and-so" to pray for "such-and-such" because of revelation -- I just thought they were *covering all the bases*. Sometimes I did wonder if they were "mandated" to make sure the entirety of twi got prayed for -- but I was never curious enough to ask.
That being said -- I can also see how some fellowship leaders might've tried to give out that they were *the great one from God*, and that everything they did in twig was by *rev*.
:D-->
David
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SafariVista
Interesting... during a leaders meeting we were instructed to STAY in control of the meeting. (This would have been about 2000-2001)
People in the fellowship were not to pray for things they were not asked to.... this was a time when people were getting accused of things, and some were asking questions...
Questions were frowned upon... by a frown, I mean they were given unrelated answers, geared to shovel out guilt... Some of the answers were right out lies... like why some regulars quit coming... everyone was told not to believe them... lots of strange stuff~
Most people in our area wanted to know what TWI was going to DO about Martindales mess up's... and they had questions about those too... how many? how long has this been going on? were there others close to him that knew about this and didn't speak up?...
How MUCH did TWI pay out for all of these law suits...
To answer questions... we looked at the Greasespot Cafe... no one knew... except after knowing that so much junk was being covered... we could no longer have fellowships & be coordinators... we just resigned & didn't answer the phone for a couple of days
:)-->
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Bramble
'People in the fellowship were not to pray for things they were not asked to....'
This was happening earlier than 2001 or so in our area. Maybe '97?
This is what I remember about prayer in fellowship. We once(80s, early 90s) got together and prayed for personal needs to be met, even ministered to each other, but that ended unless the HFC got 'rev' to have people pray for 'what was on their hearts.' If you wanted ministered to you talked to the HFC after fellowship.
People would have huge needs--health, finances, whatever, right in the fellowship, but those went unprayed for--we always prayed for LCM and HQ, though.
Of course, later in the nineties it was actually better if you had a huge need that didn't get prayed for--because having a huge need meant you were weak shi+ and that would bring nothing good.
I remember that we didn't pray or even tell our fellowship that one of our kids had pnuemonia. At the time, I as pretty upset and did NOT want to hear the reproof. I figured it would hurt my believing for the kid to get well.
How insane that all was!
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SafariVista
Yes Bramble... this had been going on for years... Why? (I asked
--> ) BECAUSE listening to people drone on about their problems... speaking negatives would bring negatives into the fellowship... What would NEW people think if they heard that kind of talk? this was the concern~
MORE control was demanded near 2000...
One young 6th or 7th grade girl, daughter of one of the coordinators, was being stalked by a man in a car on her way walking home from school. She had to walk home because the parents were both at work. She brought it up at fellowship, and her mother IMMEDIATELY cut her off and reproved her. How dare she speak negatives, or let anyone hear their business....
I thought that was particularly odd, since at that same time every day, I was JUST AROUND the corner, leaving work... I would have happily picked her up at school and dropped her off at her front door.
TWI has turned into something very ugly... full of fear!
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