I never heard VPW or LCM publicly claim to be "The Man Of God," but they both allowed it to be done in their presence without batting an eye. I did hear LCM refer to VPW as such. And he knew when he took the presidential position, that he would then assume the role.
LCM did scream to no end one time (at least) about people calling or writing to him giving him their research or ideas of what love (or pick any topic) was. He would say, "I defy anyone that thinks they know more about love (or insert any other topic) means!" Also things like, "I have more love in my pinky than they'll ever have." I'm sure that was a working pick-up line for him as well.
You cold say that was a warning and a declaration to all waybots, "Don't disagree with me" because "I know more about God and the Bible than anyone". Why? because he was the Mayo-God. lol
Hell, I remember being an oh so cocky 21 year old thinking that I knew more "rightly devided word of God" than any minister, preacher, or priest. I can only imagine what LCM and VP thought of themselves.
When I was in residence at H.Q., I was sweeping up on the patio area in front of VP's home.
He had a thick ID bracelet he always wore that was inscribed. He was talking with someone so I decided to get close to take a look and see what the inscription said.
It said "The Man of God."
So, maybe he was smart not to call himself the MOG for our day and time publically, but he had no problem wearing it. I think he believed he was in his own mind.
there was a waymag from 75 or 76 that had photos of vp front cover and inside front, or back, cover...one is captioned, VP-the man and the other , VPW-THE MAN 'O GAWWWWDD. look it up, keeeeedz....it's all there in the originals, doncha know????
So, maybe he was smart not to call himself the MOG for our day and time publically, but he had no problem wearing it. I think he believed he was in his own mind.
Oh no doubt about it. See my post today under "VPW, Cancer and Gartmore" where he talked to us about his eye. He definitely believed it.
VP simply wishing he were *the man he Knew to be* makes him nothing more than a mog wannabe .... the genuine article wouldn`t have done the things that he did without compunction.
Foundational class.......vp went through all the men of god and how there always was one. God also showed him the word by revalation and vp was going to teach it like it had not been known since the first century.
What do you think he (vp) was saying?
I don't know if I ever heard him come right out and say it but he said it all the way around without using those exact words. He may have said it I just don't remember.
I can't recall, but I seriously do think that craiggers, at least, referred to himself as the man of God. I will go through some of my stuff and see if/what I can find.
If he didn't, he sure did draw enough parallels and insinuations to be just short of calling himself that. All the references to him being Joshua, Paul, Elisha (or was it Elijah?) .... whichever was #2. Remember all the teachings about the #2, the second "Man of God" and "establishing" what the first "Man of God" started.
HECK, EVEN MONEYHANDS REFERRED TO HIMSELF AS A MAN OF GOD. One of the guys in our branch wrote a song about "The Man of God" and lyrics include "of his ministry he's making full proof" and about the fruit in his life. Bob stood proudly while this guy sang this song to/for him on a few occasions. (The song was beautiful, by the way.....just inaccurate as there's nothing "Godly" about Bob Moneyhands.
The 'Man of God stuff' filtered down into the fellowships, too. I remember a reproof session with our Martindalized HFC, who emphasised that he was 'our spiritual overseer' and we had to take that seriously, blah de blah de blah. Basically, he was the minimog.
Perhaps LCM had people say it for him. I remember a 17 corps friend telling me how this was Craig's ministry now,etc. In an awestruck voice, too.
I was at the HQ Advanced Class in '98. Sheesh, LCM was treated like God among us. Every word was a jewel. When he went through the lost and found box during breakfast before we left, people adored him, like we were sitting in a slice of heaven. Scary.
Yes~ Husband and I were at that Advanced Class. Craig went on, for hours it seemed, about the happenings in New Knoxville, and how the grass being cut there was just as much The Word of God as the Bible itself! I guess we all needed to be taught how to drive and be aware of the unfamiliar surroundings.
That particular class had a very LONG research conveyed to us from a book... Death in the tall grass, or something like that...
Someone tried to steal our car in the hotel parking lot during that class... it seemed down right wierd that my husband and I would put so much into being there, leaving our three children behind at the time... So much effort for what? To hear some guy yell... I think he was fooling around at the time... he looked awefully guilty walking around... hardly any eye contact... spoke mostly to the pretty girls & they were so happy to hug him... yuck!
Safari Vista--one of the weird things I remember of that Advanced class was the reception line where we got to shake LCM and Donna's hands. I remember she had on really heavy foundation makeup and powder--like people wear at a a theater performance.?? Looked like panstick.
And LCM was barely even polite--he was looking over the heads of the people near us in line. I guess there was someone important somewhere behind us.
I remember the book, about the lion stalking people etc. That it was just like how the Adversary's after us.Looking back, the closest thing we had to a stalking lion in our life was our TWI leadership.
The hotel we stayed in was expensive. I remember getting back to it and just collapsing. We were exhausted--must have been the atmosphere.
I recall our fellowship being reproved by the LIMB coordinator of our state for using the phrase "the man of God" in reference to him at some function. We were adamantly instructed that we could call him "A man of God", but the term "THE man of God" was ONLY to be uttered in reference (reverence?) to LCM . He reiterated that he was "a man of God", but LCM was "the man of God for the world in our time".
Another time I questioned something LCM taught about acupuncture being devilish --> (I think he said that there was no way you could have needles inserted in your body with no pain unless "debbil spurts" were involved). Our fearless LIMB coordinator agreed that it did not make sense and he didn't understand it, but if LCM the MOGFOT said it, then that was good enough for him (and therefore not to be questioned by me either).
But as a diabetic I can confirm that pain with needles is not always an issue. This is everything to do with knowledge of the physiology of the body and nothing whatsoever to do with demonology.
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Catcup
I never heard VPW or LCM publicly claim to be "The Man Of God," but they both allowed it to be done in their presence without batting an eye. I did hear LCM refer to VPW as such. And he knew when he took the presidential position, that he would then assume the role.
It was accepted, and submission was expected.
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lindyhopper
LCM did scream to no end one time (at least) about people calling or writing to him giving him their research or ideas of what love (or pick any topic) was. He would say, "I defy anyone that thinks they know more about love (or insert any other topic) means!" Also things like, "I have more love in my pinky than they'll ever have." I'm sure that was a working pick-up line for him as well.
You cold say that was a warning and a declaration to all waybots, "Don't disagree with me" because "I know more about God and the Bible than anyone". Why? because he was the Mayo-God. lol
Hell, I remember being an oh so cocky 21 year old thinking that I knew more "rightly devided word of God" than any minister, preacher, or priest. I can only imagine what LCM and VP thought of themselves.
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WordWolf
I know at ROA '89, right after lcm drew his line in the sand,
that donna kept calling him "Our Spiritual Leader" and
"Our Spiritual Head" at one of the keynotes, which is on tape.
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Trefor Heywood
I remember hearing a tape (ROA I think) where VPW was teaching and said:
"Finally my brethren, be strong in Victor Paul Wierwille."
A voice in the crowd shouts out "No".
VP asked "who then?"
"Jesus Christ!" the voice replies.
"Right on baby!" said VP.
Yet we were expected to be strong in the Lord only through TWI leadership in practice.
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WordWolf
That was from ROA '76, Trefor.
Here's an exact quote, because I thought that was one of the best teachings
I'd ever heard him teach.
===
He was covering Ephesians 6 and starting in Eph 6:10.
As he sometimes did, he deliberately misread the verse aloud so that the
audience could catch the difference.
vpw: "Finally, my brethren, be strong in VP Wierwille."
audience: "No."
vpw: "Say it LOUDER!"
audience: "NO!"
vpw: "That's right. You're not strong in VP Wierwille.
Many of you have heard The Word from my ministry, but I didn't die for you."
man from offsides: "It was Jesus Christ!"
vpw: "You said it man!"
=========
Mind you,
this should be taken in context of everything else.
Personally, I think he alternated between publicly teaching stuff that
was right on the money and privately or publicly doing or saying things
that were completely off. Humans can be contradictory and hypocritical when
they want to be.
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Sunesis
When I was in residence at H.Q., I was sweeping up on the patio area in front of VP's home.
He had a thick ID bracelet he always wore that was inscribed. He was talking with someone so I decided to get close to take a look and see what the inscription said.
It said "The Man of God."
So, maybe he was smart not to call himself the MOG for our day and time publically, but he had no problem wearing it. I think he believed he was in his own mind.
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alfakat
there was a waymag from 75 or 76 that had photos of vp front cover and inside front, or back, cover...one is captioned, VP-the man and the other , VPW-THE MAN 'O GAWWWWDD. look it up, keeeeedz....it's all there in the originals, doncha know????
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oldiesman
Well this keed always thought VP WAS the man of God.
I think when he was teaching and preaching, he was living up to that calling.
When he was sinning, he wasn't.
I know that's too simple an explanation for some.
Just my two cents worth.
Have a nice day keeedzs.
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Catcup
I wish he'd been the man he knew to be.
The man knew better than to do what he did.
Maya Angelou: "When you know better, then you do better."
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jardinero
Sunesis posted:
Oh no doubt about it. See my post today under "VPW, Cancer and Gartmore" where he talked to us about his eye. He definitely believed it.
J.
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rascal
VP simply wishing he were *the man he Knew to be* makes him nothing more than a mog wannabe .... the genuine article wouldn`t have done the things that he did without compunction.
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dmiller
I think the Way Magazine said it best, and pegged him in a more (cough) correct light - when the following ad was run for ----
(quoted from The Way Magazine - November/December 1976, page 27.)
David
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justloafing
Foundational class.......vp went through all the men of god and how there always was one. God also showed him the word by revalation and vp was going to teach it like it had not been known since the first century.
What do you think he (vp) was saying?
I don't know if I ever heard him come right out and say it but he said it all the way around without using those exact words. He may have said it I just don't remember.
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Belle
I can't recall, but I seriously do think that craiggers, at least, referred to himself as the man of God. I will go through some of my stuff and see if/what I can find.
If he didn't, he sure did draw enough parallels and insinuations to be just short of calling himself that. All the references to him being Joshua, Paul, Elisha (or was it Elijah?) .... whichever was #2. Remember all the teachings about the #2, the second "Man of God" and "establishing" what the first "Man of God" started.
HECK, EVEN MONEYHANDS REFERRED TO HIMSELF AS A MAN OF GOD. One of the guys in our branch wrote a song about "The Man of God" and lyrics include "of his ministry he's making full proof" and about the fruit in his life. Bob stood proudly while this guy sang this song to/for him on a few occasions. (The song was beautiful, by the way.....just inaccurate as there's nothing "Godly" about Bob Moneyhands.
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Bramble
The 'Man of God stuff' filtered down into the fellowships, too. I remember a reproof session with our Martindalized HFC, who emphasised that he was 'our spiritual overseer' and we had to take that seriously, blah de blah de blah. Basically, he was the minimog.
Perhaps LCM had people say it for him. I remember a 17 corps friend telling me how this was Craig's ministry now,etc. In an awestruck voice, too.
I was at the HQ Advanced Class in '98. Sheesh, LCM was treated like God among us. Every word was a jewel. When he went through the lost and found box during breakfast before we left, people adored him, like we were sitting in a slice of heaven. Scary.
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SafariVista
Yes~ Husband and I were at that Advanced Class. Craig went on, for hours it seemed, about the happenings in New Knoxville, and how the grass being cut there was just as much The Word of God as the Bible itself! I guess we all needed to be taught how to drive and be aware of the unfamiliar surroundings.
That particular class had a very LONG research conveyed to us from a book... Death in the tall grass, or something like that...
Someone tried to steal our car in the hotel parking lot during that class... it seemed down right wierd that my husband and I would put so much into being there, leaving our three children behind at the time... So much effort for what? To hear some guy yell... I think he was fooling around at the time... he looked awefully guilty walking around... hardly any eye contact... spoke mostly to the pretty girls & they were so happy to hug him... yuck!
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Bramble
Safari Vista--one of the weird things I remember of that Advanced class was the reception line where we got to shake LCM and Donna's hands. I remember she had on really heavy foundation makeup and powder--like people wear at a a theater performance.?? Looked like panstick.
And LCM was barely even polite--he was looking over the heads of the people near us in line. I guess there was someone important somewhere behind us.
I remember the book, about the lion stalking people etc. That it was just like how the Adversary's after us.Looking back, the closest thing we had to a stalking lion in our life was our TWI leadership.
The hotel we stayed in was expensive. I remember getting back to it and just collapsing. We were exhausted--must have been the atmosphere.
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justloafing
He was looking at his next victim
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Catcup
Simply the "King" surveying his "kingdom."
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skyrider
That book Death in the Tall Grass was suggested to lcm by jxckie hornxy........how appropriate!!!
Martindale was grasping for anything to make it look like he was on the cutting edge of insight and spiritual revy.
And the mini-mog scenario -- moneyhands, ruppy, spaghetti, lindy, platig, and others -- is lurking near the surface of their smugness.
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2fortheroad
I recall our fellowship being reproved by the LIMB coordinator of our state for using the phrase "the man of God" in reference to him at some function. We were adamantly instructed that we could call him "A man of God", but the term "THE man of God" was ONLY to be uttered in reference (reverence?) to LCM
. He reiterated that he was "a man of God", but LCM was "the man of God for the world in our time".
Another time I questioned something LCM taught about acupuncture being devilish
--> (I think he said that there was no way you could have needles inserted in your body with no pain unless "debbil spurts" 
were involved). Our fearless LIMB coordinator agreed that it did not make sense and he didn't understand it, but if LCM the MOGFOT said it, then that was good enough for him (and therefore not to be questioned by me either).
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Trefor Heywood
Clearly LCM was needlephobic.
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GarthP2000
Trefor, how can you say that LCM is neddlephobic when he was such a pr*ck?
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Trefor Heywood
Very good Garth!
-->
But as a diabetic I can confirm that pain with needles is not always an issue. This is everything to do with knowledge of the physiology of the body and nothing whatsoever to do with demonology.
So he was certainly an ignorant pr*ck.
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