Although many seem to think that TWI is "kinder and gentler" these days and therefore more benign, I believe that their "gentler" ways allow them to be ever more subtle in their control of people's minds and hearts, making them even more malignant.
WHY and HOW can any grown and mature human being BLINDLY allow this organization to
DO THEIR THINKING FOR THEM?!!!!!!!!!
They don't need to think unless and until the BOD tell them they need to, and THEN, they will only think what the BOD has allowed them to think!!!!!!!!!!!!!
They don't need to think unless and until the BOD tell them they need to, and THEN, they will only think what the BOD has allowed them to think!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And when you begin to think for yourself, ask questions and stir the pot you are promptly shown the door. At least that's been my experience. Thinking is not welcome in the way.
'90, '91, can't remember exactly, Word in Business was in Detroit, and they had a lightly attended business meeting 8 AM the second day. They were discussing the problems in dealing with the City of Emporia over the sale of that campus. Don W stated "It's not the money". When I hear that, It IS the money.
Not too long after that, I was being pressured to attend the Advanced class. They wanted a large sum of money for it, forget how much.
They wanted the money in Cash, No check or Money order, and, NO receipt would be given.
These two events pushed me over the edge and I walked out and into the clean air of Non-TWIdom
...I was being pressured to attend the Advanced class. They wanted a large sum of money for it, forget how much.
They wanted the money in Cash, No check or Money order, and, NO receipt would be given.
Wow. Sounds to me like a local leader was trying to skim. I was "in" at that time (early 90's) and never heard of a situation where checks or money orders were not accepted. As I recall, the Advanced class was $250. If you stayed "on campus" it was another $200. When they started requiring that you arrange your own lodging, there was an additional fee for meals.
If our government (any branch of it) is to check TWI's "books"
then who's gonna check the gov. books. Our gov. is just if not more of a crook than TWI. woo woo ha ha ha
I agree with dovey's premise, that graft and corruption do occur with in government just as it does in corporate America. However, in both of these cases the books are open to everyone to see. The books are a matter of public record. (Ofcourse, I must hasten to add that while figures do not lie, sometimes liars figure. i.e. Enron and Iran-Contra) There does exist a system of accountability in place to expose such excesses within these institutions. Unfortunately, no such system exists within twi.
I think that opening post is a classic example of the mindset of how the "flock" of way followers were kept at bay on money issues...As I recall,it wasn't until the **** hit the fan after POP,and everybody in the ministry was questioning everything about the ministry,that some specific questions were answered...I remember in the late eighties,when asked about the way losing $$$ in the stock market,Craig's response was "Well,we take in a lot of money..What do you want us to do,put it in a sock?"..
As far as books and such,the trustees and legal beagles would have to accomplish two things...Maintain the non-profit status of TWI,in which,I suppose,they would be accountable to the IRS...I do remember times when their non-profit status was challenged...The other would be in showing accountability to the followers,or "tithers"..Just because the IRS might be satisfied of the way's non-profit status,wouldn't mean the follower's would be pleased at how their abundant sharing dollar was being spent,hence,the intimidation...
I'm sure the Ambassador I airplane,the motorcoach,the Harleys,the chalets and maybe even Tick's dogfood were considered legitimate expenses as far as non-profit status were concerned...But the believer's may not have been very thrilled if they knew too much of their abs was spent on such things..
As a side note,most non-profit religious organizations give money to missionary programs,food banks,homeless shelters etc. ..The way long held the philosophy of "We don't give men fish,we teach them how to fish",which means,they didn't spend any of their extra cash on frivolous things like food,clothing and shelter for the needy..They had to spend their money internally,under the guise that it was "being "spent to move the Word over the world"...That part was probably difficult to explain to the IRS,but most of us followers bought into it,unless,of course,we didn't...then Jerry Corrodi would set us straight...
Just because the IRS might be satisfied of the way's non-profit status,wouldn't mean the follower's would be pleased at how their abundant sharing dollar was being spent,hence,the intimidation...
Just another example of how much "truth" they actually fed us....
I work in a lot of churches and almost all of them will have copies of the annual report on a table as you walk in, right next to the sunday bulletins and the other literature which are free for anyone to take. Is that another reason that they hated churches because they believed in being financially accountable?
There was a moment when VP said, gist, ~~~ the financial books are open for view, we have nothing to hide~~~
Any one remember???
it was during a deprogramming gig at a ROA where someone was 'rescued/escaped' and put on stage and the financial books were opened for view for that person and that person declared such a thing and TWI was protecting that person from the deprogrammers~~~???
ROA???? I don't remember that exact ROA~ BUT I do remember being told on SEVERAL occasions that TWI had NOTHING to hide, and their financial's were available to view at any time.
Even passed this information on to my parents, who were VERY concerned about my involvement. And here I actually believed what I was saying was true~
...I was being pressured to attend the Advanced class. They wanted a large sum of money for it, forget how much.
They wanted the money in Cash, No check or Money order, and, NO receipt would be given.
Then posted by Oakspear:Wow. Sounds to me like a local leader was trying to skim. I was "in" at that time (early 90's) and never heard of a situation where checks or money orders were not accepted. As I recall, the Advanced class was $250. If you stayed "on campus" it was another $200. When they started requiring that you arrange your own lodging, there was an additional fee for meals.
I remember at the ACS in 1996 which was held at HQ that we could not send in a check for payment of the registration. The reason given was that too many people bounced checks with twi. Makes you go hmmmmmm.......
“Now, I don’t have to defend what they do. All I have to do is hold forth the greatness of God’s Word. All you have to do is the same thing. And the only way I can be defeated is to be intimidated. And I refuse to be intimidated.”
As I read this, it's very difficult to keep my profanity in check.
I'm angry at the BOT, I'm angry at Corrodi playing the running lacky shill for the BOT and I'm angry at myself. Mostly at myself for buying into this bullshi_t "don't question us" attitude. They were wrong. They deceived us. And hopefully there will be justice.
Intimidated indeed. Corrodi didn't know the meaning of the word. It was just rhetoric to silence the honest questions of honest people trying to find out if their money was used honestly.
Jerry, if you're reading this, sorry about my hardass attitude. I admired you. I listened to you and Del at the YWCA in Oakland and was moved. We trusted you and you let us down.
**templelady appears from her alternate universe to say hi and add her several dollaRS Worth OF Cents"
NOt just finances BUt any question about how or why something was done or "not done" elicited the same response.
"lack of Believing"
Succumbing to the Wiles of the Adversary"
Negative Thinking"
"your just a babe not ready for the Maet of the Word"
I look back and find it amazing that I would not have rented an apartment from a landloard who refused to answer my questions,
I would not have bought a car/merchandise from a retailer who didn't answer my questions.
I would not have worked foran employer who routinely treated me in such a cavalier fashion.
But I was willing to entrust my marriage, my children, myself and our spritual and emotional welfare to people who regularly spouted this verbal diahrrea at every turn.
The pain, the anquish, we all paid for my stupidity still haunts me to this day.
The very first thing the church encourages new folks to do is attend a 4 hour get-together (catered and paid for by the church) called, "Welcome To Harmony" (the church's name is Harmony Vineyard).
My friend and I attended the get-together.
Fully one whole hour was devoted to explaining the finances of the church...and putting forth an open invitation to ANYBODY who wished to review the church's books.
Not only is my church far more honest in its business dealings than twi could ever even imagine...
My church helps people come into a closer relationship with Jesus.
TWI was just wrong, wrong, wrong on EVERY account of EVERYTHING they ever said, did, thought, taught, imagined, whatever.
(I'm gonna do a post someday with all the WRONG DIVISION and PRIVATE INTERPRETATION twi put on the scriptures. TWI didn't just practice a few doctrinal differences, folks...TWI lead people away from God and away from Jesus...right into hell itself.)
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Catcup
A "need to think basis" indeed!
Although many seem to think that TWI is "kinder and gentler" these days and therefore more benign, I believe that their "gentler" ways allow them to be ever more subtle in their control of people's minds and hearts, making them even more malignant.
WHY and HOW can any grown and mature human being BLINDLY allow this organization to
DO THEIR THINKING FOR THEM?!!!!!!!!!
They don't need to think unless and until the BOD tell them they need to, and THEN, they will only think what the BOD has allowed them to think!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Belle
And when you begin to think for yourself, ask questions and stir the pot you are promptly shown the door. At least that's been my experience. Thinking is not welcome in the way.
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Trefor Heywood
Thinking isn't welcome in quite a few religious organisations but few have taken it to such extremes with dissenters, at least in modern times.
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CM
are you thinking trefor?
modern times? pffft..
f modern times...
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Trefor Heywood
CM
And your point is?
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tFloat
'90, '91, can't remember exactly, Word in Business was in Detroit, and they had a lightly attended business meeting 8 AM the second day. They were discussing the problems in dealing with the City of Emporia over the sale of that campus. Don W stated "It's not the money". When I hear that, It IS the money.
Not too long after that, I was being pressured to attend the Advanced class. They wanted a large sum of money for it, forget how much.
They wanted the money in Cash, No check or Money order, and, NO receipt would be given.
These two events pushed me over the edge and I walked out and into the clean air of Non-TWIdom
Harvey Moore
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Oakspear
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oenophile
Wytedove wrote:
I agree with dovey's premise, that graft and corruption do occur with in government just as it does in corporate America. However, in both of these cases the books are open to everyone to see. The books are a matter of public record. (Ofcourse, I must hasten to add that while figures do not lie, sometimes liars figure. i.e. Enron and Iran-Contra) There does exist a system of accountability in place to expose such excesses within these institutions. Unfortunately, no such system exists within twi.
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Trefor Heywood
Not just TWI of course as several bodies, the LDS for example, do not publish detailed accounts.
But less of us have trustingly given large amounts of money to other such bodies.
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WaywardWayfer
We are still treated like mushrooms and Rosalie is a "prophetess" and a "pastor" and don't you even think about questioning decisions from the BOD.
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simonzelotes
I think that opening post is a classic example of the mindset of how the "flock" of way followers were kept at bay on money issues...As I recall,it wasn't until the **** hit the fan after POP,and everybody in the ministry was questioning everything about the ministry,that some specific questions were answered...I remember in the late eighties,when asked about the way losing $$$ in the stock market,Craig's response was "Well,we take in a lot of money..What do you want us to do,put it in a sock?"..
As far as books and such,the trustees and legal beagles would have to accomplish two things...Maintain the non-profit status of TWI,in which,I suppose,they would be accountable to the IRS...I do remember times when their non-profit status was challenged...The other would be in showing accountability to the followers,or "tithers"..Just because the IRS might be satisfied of the way's non-profit status,wouldn't mean the follower's would be pleased at how their abundant sharing dollar was being spent,hence,the intimidation...
I'm sure the Ambassador I airplane,the motorcoach,the Harleys,the chalets and maybe even Tick's dogfood were considered legitimate expenses as far as non-profit status were concerned...But the believer's may not have been very thrilled if they knew too much of their abs was spent on such things..
As a side note,most non-profit religious organizations give money to missionary programs,food banks,homeless shelters etc. ..The way long held the philosophy of "We don't give men fish,we teach them how to fish",which means,they didn't spend any of their extra cash on frivolous things like food,clothing and shelter for the needy..They had to spend their money internally,under the guise that it was "being "spent to move the Word over the world"...That part was probably difficult to explain to the IRS,but most of us followers bought into it,unless,of course,we didn't...then Jerry Corrodi would set us straight...
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mstar1
Just another example of how much "truth" they actually fed us....
I work in a lot of churches and almost all of them will have copies of the annual report on a table as you walk in, right next to the sunday bulletins and the other literature which are free for anyone to take. Is that another reason that they hated churches because they believed in being financially accountable?
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
There was a moment when VP said, gist, ~~~ the financial books are open for view, we have nothing to hide~~~
Any one remember???
it was during a deprogramming gig at a ROA where someone was 'rescued/escaped' and put on stage and the financial books were opened for view for that person and that person declared such a thing and TWI was protecting that person from the deprogrammers~~~???
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
ahhh s h i t what else is new
i suppose there would have been three sets of books
one for the record
one off the record
and their own record
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SafariVista
ROA???? I don't remember that exact ROA~ BUT I do remember being told on SEVERAL occasions that TWI had NOTHING to hide, and their financial's were available to view at any time.
Even passed this information on to my parents, who were VERY concerned about my involvement. And here I actually believed what I was saying was true~
Glad they aren't the 'I told you so' type
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Nottawayfer
I remember at the ACS in 1996 which was held at HQ that we could not send in a check for payment of the registration. The reason given was that too many people bounced checks with twi. Makes you go hmmmmmm.......
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
could not resist
fits right into this thread~~~
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
Catcup,
I can not understand for the honest of me your choice to
"I am putting up my TWI tape library for auction on eBay,"
Why would you do that?
Song
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Oakspear
My memory may be fuzzy about not accepting personal checks for the advanced class, but I'm sure that they were never asking for CASH!
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Jim
As I read this, it's very difficult to keep my profanity in check.
I'm angry at the BOT, I'm angry at Corrodi playing the running lacky shill for the BOT and I'm angry at myself. Mostly at myself for buying into this bullshi_t "don't question us" attitude. They were wrong. They deceived us. And hopefully there will be justice.
Intimidated indeed. Corrodi didn't know the meaning of the word. It was just rhetoric to silence the honest questions of honest people trying to find out if their money was used honestly.
Jerry, if you're reading this, sorry about my hardass attitude. I admired you. I listened to you and Del at the YWCA in Oakland and was moved. We trusted you and you let us down.
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templelady
**templelady appears from her alternate universe to say hi and add her several dollaRS Worth OF Cents"
NOt just finances BUt any question about how or why something was done or "not done" elicited the same response.
"lack of Believing"
Succumbing to the Wiles of the Adversary"
Negative Thinking"
"your just a babe not ready for the Maet of the Word"
I look back and find it amazing that I would not have rented an apartment from a landloard who refused to answer my questions,
I would not have bought a car/merchandise from a retailer who didn't answer my questions.
I would not have worked foran employer who routinely treated me in such a cavalier fashion.
But I was willing to entrust my marriage, my children, myself and our spritual and emotional welfare to people who regularly spouted this verbal diahrrea at every turn.
The pain, the anquish, we all paid for my stupidity still haunts me to this day.
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Catcup
I just hate throwing away something that somebody else can use
:D--> 
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rascal
Sorry ((((TL))) What was done was unconscionable.
We were so naieve, in our innocence, we never dreamed that twi didn`t have our best interest and that of our families at heart....sigh.
In vain is the snare set in the sight of the bird I think is how the old proverb says it.
They masqueraded as a spiritually wholesom group to quell our suspicions and lure us in close enough to ennsnare.
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CoolWaters
I started attending church again a few weeks ago.
The very first thing the church encourages new folks to do is attend a 4 hour get-together (catered and paid for by the church) called, "Welcome To Harmony" (the church's name is Harmony Vineyard).
My friend and I attended the get-together.
Fully one whole hour was devoted to explaining the finances of the church...and putting forth an open invitation to ANYBODY who wished to review the church's books.
Not only is my church far more honest in its business dealings than twi could ever even imagine...
My church helps people come into a closer relationship with Jesus.
TWI was just wrong, wrong, wrong on EVERY account of EVERYTHING they ever said, did, thought, taught, imagined, whatever.
(I'm gonna do a post someday with all the WRONG DIVISION and PRIVATE INTERPRETATION twi put on the scriptures. TWI didn't just practice a few doctrinal differences, folks...TWI lead people away from God and away from Jesus...right into hell itself.)
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