Belle, I never brought anyone to twig, not even the man I was married to at the time. I very rarely witnessed to people, if ever. Once I remember a group of us witnessing, or at least we were supposed to, I don't remember actually doing the deed though (could be I played hookie that night). The only time I ever remember going out to witness was when I was 18, belonged to a different organization, I was on Bourbon Street and I was hit on a zillion times. It did no good :shrug:
I never signed anyone up for class either.
Its not that I didn't and don't talk about God, because I do. I just don't set out to talk about God in a witnessing fashion, it just comes up naturally (I think) Of course, when I talked to my family about things, it wasn't so natural since at the time I believed most of them to be heathen since all were Catholics with few beliefs.
I felt badly that I didn't and wouldn't witness, but I would have felt worse if had.
I have come to realize that I think the best way to witness is with our lives.
"How many people did you witness to, bring to fellowship and sign up for the class? How many stuck around?"
Over the years, I have no idea of how many I got into TWI. We ran some classes though.
We generaly had a bordering house type of setup. Most people who lived in our house or in one of our apartments usually attended fellowhsip with us, usually. Most of them took PFAL, most finished PFAL. Of those some we are still in contact with, some 'locate' us and give us a call every few years.
Last week I got a call from a guy [Dan] who rented an apartment from us 1987-1990 in Scotland [actually he rented an old abandoned single-wide mobilehome or travel-trailer from us. When we bought the apartment building it was parked behind the building hidden in a huge bush. I found it when we were cleaning out the fresh-water spring that fed the building, soon afterward we rented it out to Dan.
By 'sticking around' do you mean they stayed 'in' TWI? None. In about every case we hear of, as soon as we left an area, or the people were stationed at a new area most of them 'left' TWI very soon afterwards. Pretty much as soon as they had their first experience with WC, they were gone.
I can think of one couple Dave and Gail who did stay 'in' for another 5 - 6 years afterwards, and they did successfully deal with WC for a while, but even they finally left.
"How many people did you see the wc bringing in and signing up?"
Never saw any such thing.
It was always the WC who chased folks away. No I take that back, we did know one WC couple John and Margi in Mystic who flourished with a fellowship of their own. We still are in contact with them, he preaches in chruches now days, alternates between two different churches, I have even attended with him.
"I brought close to 30 people to fellowship and signed up 2 people for the class."
Well at last you gave it a shot.
"None of the people I brought stuck around and many never came back after the first fellowship and exposure to TWI."
Maybe they just were not called at that time.
"WC in my area? I *think* one was supposed to have a co-worker come one night but I can't remember if they ever showed up. If they did show up they never came back."
Sounds about right.
But I really would not know. We seldom were ever close enough to an actual WC's home or Twig, to have attended one. So I really could not say what happened in their own fellowships. I would have to assume that somehow they got a few new bodys into their fellowships. Otherwise when they moved around, they would never have any ...
Our exposure to the concept was more from them wanting to come and do an annual visit, to get out and 'meet the beleivers'. Get directions and find each fellowship in their branch before they went back to the ROCK and were relocated. I think that there may have been some kind of written reports or something that made WC branch Coordinators to go out and actualy find their twigs right before they went back to the ROCK and were relocated. Otherwise we would not have lost nearly as many beleivers as we did over the years.
It was bad enough during those annual 'limb-meeting / WC recruitment meetings', I hated those things. Always knew I was going to be 'confronted' by some jerk who did not know my name. But looking back I really dont think that we 'lost' people due to Limb Meetings per say, it was just that I hated them.
I said it before and I'll say it again...none, zip, nada, zero! Even when I was a WOW. Interesting story, when they use to have a witness sunday in the park or wherever, I would ask to go with the corps leader. Interesting thing is he was smooth, but we didn't catch any fish. Unlike the women who brought truckloads of guys, that never showed up again.
Sure, I felt a little guilty back then, but looking back fate was with me, because It would have felt worse had I lead someone in.
It seems there was usually some sort of romantic involvement before twig involvement. I never pressured people the way my mom was pressured to go. I also rarely witnessed to just random people unless we were forced to during an outreach event.
It turns out that most of the friends that I had spoken to that I still keep in touch with thought I was a little wacked out. And they STILL hung out with me and were friends with me. WOW!
I guess after leaving twi I found out who my friends really were. They are like family.
Belle, in answer to your queston, much. We didn't quite folow twi doctrine but overall much strength was built. We put together two twig pfal classes in a state that seemed incapable of putting one together of itself, dunno how much I contributed to that but some familial directions were changed and so far nobodies complained.
I always hated the pfal promo stuff we were expected to give, it reminded me of shaklee and amway :)-->
I remember attending a public Exhibition of PFAL in 1979, when I signed up and paid for the class; though I do not recall what it was that they were showing.
In the late 1980's I was given a copy of 'changed'. I dont think it ever occured to us to show 'changed' as a public Exhibition for PFAL.
I do recall hearing of people who ran the first session of PFAL, as a public exhibition for putting together a class. I think that doing such would have been terribly difficult to do, since Limb offices routinely wanted to see proof that you already had 7 students signed-up and paid for, and a quart of blood before they would give you the first session of PFAL.
I do seem to think that the Twig Leader's handbook did list showing stuff for a public-ex, but I would rather have spent the day jabbing my face with a fork rather than going to limb and bleeding before them begging to get anything form of support for our twig.
Mind you I am only speaking from our terribly short and limited exposure to TWI over 18 years: in California, Washington, Connecticut, and Scotland.
gee as much as i hate to remember it we used to go in pairs at least twice a month.. door to door witnessing!! i hated it but thought i had to do it. fruit from these efforts zero! i did bring a number of folk into pfal from just talking to them as my normal self. nobody stayed though,but i will say that learning about the bible lot's of us are better for it.
Galen, the promo stuff was mostly way mag stuff and the state grapevine with a few kids way mag's thrown in. Out of four classes, derway provided zero students and minimal support.
My first year in twi, I got 8 people to take the class...which is more than the other 12 years put together.
Going out "witnessing" was pure torture for me...I hated every second of it. So did everyone else...We would usually end up in some bar polishing off several beers.
I'm happy to say that each of the 8 folks that I got into the class, quit twi before I did.
One guy in 1978 who was a childhood friend. He came up to me in a bar and asked about my green bumper sticker. Took the class, went WOW in Nebraska the year before I did, went into the Corps.
One guy on my WOW year. Struck up a conversation with him on the street. Everything other than his name was a lie! He crashed on our couch for a while, followed us when we got reassigned to another city, took PFAL. The last time I remember seeing him was when my WOW brother and I were trying to collect money that he owed some other wayfers, he marched into a police station and told the cops that we were cult members and that he wanted protection.
Another guy, in 1993 maybe. Met him in a bar, invited him to twig. He stuck around for a year before a class came together, went to the ROA, went as far as the intermediate class and left because he couldn't stand all the demands on his time.
I could easily get together a class on my own. My favorite part. I think of all the years I was in I had four people finish the class but no one stuck around.
I thought I was the only one. I thought there was something wrong with me all those years that I wasn't producing more fruit in my life. Now I know the real truth!!!!!
I had none (by twi standards), but my life since, has had a lot. Giving to those that need it, and seeing them respond in a positive manner -- yea - that is fruit, but I didn't sign them up for the *class*.
Money (from my pocket to theirs), and a few kind words on my part -- got fruit (but no *class involvement*).
I once saw a blind man, tapping his cane in the middle of a busy street, looking for the street corner, and though all other drivers passed him by, honking, none got out to help him find his familiar landmarks. I did, and I consider that fruit.
*Fruit* is something that is a result of our actions, and twi has no final definative definition on the subject -- since it is avarice that fuels their definition of *fruit*, which should be translated as "what is good for us".
TWI's definition of fruit changed constantly but mostly meant how many people and/or how much money were you bringing into TWI. What's funny to me is that they always said you could tell a minister by his "fruit" but none of the corps (that I'm aware of) actually brought anyone to fellowship, much less put someone through any classes.
The Bible says that the fruit of the spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness and temperance. It also says that the fruit of the spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth. (Gal 5:22-23, Eph 5:9)
So TWI is teaching wrongly because I don't see anything in those verses about witnessing, abundant sharing or signing people up for classes. What I DO see is that your goodness and kind, gentle and loving manner overflows with fruit if the spirit! :)--> I see the truth being told and exposed here on GSpot. I see people on here saying how much more joy, peace and goodness they experience in their lives once leaving TWI.
I know personally, that I feel more freedom to help people and, not only that, I WANT to and I ENJOY it. I am much more patient, whereas in TWI I was pretty much so unhappy and miserable and/or arrogant that I actually SOUGHT reasons to get p1ssed off at people or act un-ladylike. My whole demeanor is not much more gentle, peaceful, patient and life is so much better without the pressures, stress and other ugly stuff that came with involvement in TWI.
I never got anyone signed up for PFAL but I got a few to twig though not just by myself. I was going to twig withs friends of mine so we might all mention it to people at different times so its hard to tell who was "the one" who got someone to come to twig. But I didn't care. I really didn't. If someone else got credit for it then so be it.
In my first twig there was a guy who never took PFAL yet got more people to come to twig than anyone who had taken PFAL ! He really liked hanging out at twig and thats all he really wanted. Of course once the corps types started trying to tell us how to run a twig they made it clear that people who weren't interested in PFAL should not be welcomed back.
I agree with the assessment that the women tended to bring alot more people to twig (almost always guys) most of whom showed up for a couple of twigs before they realized that the
women weren't interested in them for dating. OBviously people did come,stayed, and took the class but there was a prety high turnover rate in the early to mid 70s.
I visited one twig wherein the TC suggested to the guys that they invite more women to twig but it was so sqaure and uncool to chat up women about religion and church. I mean it was easy to talk to women at the mall but once you started talking about "fellowship" most of them started looking at their watches. Besides some of those women were pretty cute so I stopped mentioning the twig thing and would just ask them out on dates ! I figured if I liked them and they liked me I could always introduce them to that aspect of my life.
TWI's definition of fruit changed constantly but mostly meant how many people and/or how much money were you bringing into TWI.
Awwww Belle, I knew what ya meant. ;)--> The sad thing is -- 20 odd years ago, I believed the same thing. Fruit wasn't fruit if it wasn't in the twi *pantry*. Any other actions done weren't considered fruitful for the ministry, if it did not translate to members, or money.
And as I say -- sadly, I bought into that for Lord knows how many years, thinking I had nothing to show for my life if I wasn't signing folks up for the class, and was ignoring the fact that helping others was more beneficial than adding to the coffers of twi.
I define fruit with a much different mind-set now, and am thankful for it. :)-->
And yes you are right -- the biblical teaching of fruit denotes a giving to others, a giving of yourself, sharing of your abundance (be it money, time, ability, compassion, talent, knowledge, etc.) which will come back to YOU the believer as fruit, and to God who gave you and I the ability to give to others -- and NOT to the denomination you fellowship with.
Twi has set themselves up as god if they expect fruit for themselves from the things we have done.
In my first twig there was a guy who never took PFAL yet got more people to come to twig than anyone who had taken PFAL ! He really liked hanging out at twig and thats all he really wanted. Of course once the corps types started trying to tell us how to run a twig they made it clear that people who weren't interested in PFAL should not be welcomed back.
There was a lady in my first twig who came faithfully and always gave generously, but she either didn't take the class, didn't finish the class or just didn't speak in tongues, I can't remember. After Moneyhands came to town he had the HFC tell her that if she wasn't going to speak in tongues that she was no longer welcome at twig and that she was spiritually hitch-hiking off us.
Vickles, ain't it nice to forget about trying to get out of cleaning those toilets? :D-->
David, isn't it great to not have that mindset anymore and to realize that it was wrong? I mean, it was really a relief to me to learn that TWI was teaching b.s. in that category. TWI teaches performance based religion but they keep moving the hoops they want you to jump through. If you're going to have to follow some stupid illogical doctrine to get to any rewards in heaven, I'd just as soon buy indulgences.
During my tenure with TWI (1978-1997), I brought about 50 people to fellowship (one of whom may still be in) and signed up a dozen or so for PFAL, most of whom completed the class. (How much money they gave, I don't know.)
During the same years, I was under the leadership of about 10 Corps personnel. I don't know the numbers, but I'd say that they all brought people in periodically. Interestingly, the couple that were "full-time" probably had the lowest amount of "fruit," because they were spending all their time rooting around in everyone else's business.
I never looked at witnessing as "fruit-gathering." To me, NOT witnessing was akin to "I have a jack, but I won't help you!"
Well.. I probably introduced about fifty folks to da class. I can only think of five or six that really stuck with the "ministry". All that I followed up on are no longer in the cesspool, thank God..
... signed up a dozen or so for PFAL, most of whom completed the class...
... I never looked at witnessing as "fruit-gathering." To me, NOT witnessing was akin to "I have a jack, but I won't help you!"
LOL
I only recall one guy who we signed up and then did not complete PFAL.
I agree with you entirely about the "I have a jack, but I wont help you" part. That has been exactly our attitude with it.
We never really paid much attention to how many 'stuck' with the ministry. That was not the purpose of witnessing to folks and getting them through PFAL. As we moved around, we kept in touch with many of the guys that we got through PFAL, and we were interested in whether or nto they were 'in' only in the context of seeing if we were going to bump into them some ministry function somewhere.
I commonly did try to warn folks as they transfered away so that they would not walk blindly into what they had thought would be a loving fellowship, and suddenly find a group of Hitlers.
A couple times we did hear that some were still 'in' and we prayed with them, in some cases it went on for years. In other case, we would get a call that they had tried such and such a fellowship, but got spat on [figuratively], and we prayed with them.
One man we got through PFAL {Dan] called me a week ago. He is a Methodist minister in South Carolina now. It did not really phase us at all that he was not able to successfully meld in with the nazis. We were and still are thankful that he was able to come into his own ministry and help others.
Interestingly, the couple that were "full-time" probably had the lowest amount of "fruit," because they were spending all their time rooting around in everyone else's business.
That was true everwhere I lived when WC was FT - in TN, MA, and NH! I moved in with WC in MA - it was a single mother - I was her assistant. She could have knocked me over with a feather when she told me they hadn't had a new person to fellowship in 2 years! TWO YEARS! I brought several new people to that fellowship in the 6+ months that I lived with her - none of them stayed!
Why?
Because she either ****** them off, offended them or made them feel like an "exhibit" because they were new. She even knew how to make a night of bowling a pain in the a$$ because it wasn't about having "fun" - but about "confronting people with the Word" - even their first time meeting us! Scheesch!
Now that I look at it, maybe it was for the better!
Chas, you just reminded me of one of the communion services we had in our area. It was when they were being done in the fellowship and we got.....GASP.....permission to invite new people to it because it would be a great time for them to learn the truth and to see what a communion service should be.
I had three or four girls from work come with me to the service. My ex was leading the communion because our hfc was out of town. He started talking about how Jesus wasn't some pansy, limp wristed gay fellow like the traditional churches teach and then totally went off on how he confronted the Pharisees of the day and I don't remember what else. I sat there next to him wishing I could shrink into the fabric of the chair.
Their faces were astonished, shocked and scared. They politely left as quickly as they could after everything was over. One girl never spoke to me again. She went out of her way to avoid me at work and I can't say I blame her. One girl expressed that she was very concerned about me and asked if I was really happy and if I was really getting what I needed regarding my relationship with Christ. I very boldly told her I was and that all our fellowships weren't like that (yeah, right!). I thought about that a lot afterwards. I think then I was really starting to come to terms with how unhappy I really was in TWI and how embarrassed I was to be associated with them. I remember thinking that if this was "the more abundant life" and these were the right answers, I wish I didn't have them.
Another couple in our apartment WANTED to come to fellowship with us and the girl wanted to take the class. Had her money ready and everything!! P@ul Br00ks told us that because they were living together and not married that one of them would have to move out and they would have to live apart for SIX MONTHS and planning their wedding before they would be welcome at fellowship. (I'm glad now that they didn't get involved, but I feel terrible about the girl having so many questions and needing so much love and learning about God. I hope that God got someone kind loving and genuinely good to take care of her and her heart. I'm sure He did because, thankfully, there are people who aren't TWI's kind of christians)
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gc
Belle, I never brought anyone to twig, not even the man I was married to at the time. I very rarely witnessed to people, if ever. Once I remember a group of us witnessing, or at least we were supposed to, I don't remember actually doing the deed though (could be I played hookie that night). The only time I ever remember going out to witness was when I was 18, belonged to a different organization, I was on Bourbon Street and I was hit on a zillion times. It did no good :shrug:
I never signed anyone up for class either.
Its not that I didn't and don't talk about God, because I do. I just don't set out to talk about God in a witnessing fashion, it just comes up naturally (I think) Of course, when I talked to my family about things, it wasn't so natural since at the time I believed most of them to be heathen since all were Catholics with few beliefs.
I felt badly that I didn't and wouldn't witness, but I would have felt worse if had.
I have come to realize that I think the best way to witness is with our lives.
gc
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Galen
Belle:
"How many people did you witness to, bring to fellowship and sign up for the class? How many stuck around?"
Over the years, I have no idea of how many I got into TWI. We ran some classes though.
We generaly had a bordering house type of setup. Most people who lived in our house or in one of our apartments usually attended fellowhsip with us, usually. Most of them took PFAL, most finished PFAL. Of those some we are still in contact with, some 'locate' us and give us a call every few years.
Last week I got a call from a guy [Dan] who rented an apartment from us 1987-1990 in Scotland [actually he rented an old abandoned single-wide mobilehome or travel-trailer from us. When we bought the apartment building it was parked behind the building hidden in a huge bush. I found it when we were cleaning out the fresh-water spring that fed the building, soon afterward we rented it out to Dan.
By 'sticking around' do you mean they stayed 'in' TWI? None. In about every case we hear of, as soon as we left an area, or the people were stationed at a new area most of them 'left' TWI very soon afterwards. Pretty much as soon as they had their first experience with WC, they were gone.
I can think of one couple Dave and Gail who did stay 'in' for another 5 - 6 years afterwards, and they did successfully deal with WC for a while, but even they finally left.
"How many people did you see the wc bringing in and signing up?"
Never saw any such thing.
It was always the WC who chased folks away. No I take that back, we did know one WC couple John and Margi in Mystic who flourished with a fellowship of their own. We still are in contact with them, he preaches in chruches now days, alternates between two different churches, I have even attended with him.
"I brought close to 30 people to fellowship and signed up 2 people for the class."
Well at last you gave it a shot.
"None of the people I brought stuck around and many never came back after the first fellowship and exposure to TWI."
Maybe they just were not called at that time.
"WC in my area? I *think* one was supposed to have a co-worker come one night but I can't remember if they ever showed up. If they did show up they never came back."
Sounds about right.
But I really would not know. We seldom were ever close enough to an actual WC's home or Twig, to have attended one. So I really could not say what happened in their own fellowships. I would have to assume that somehow they got a few new bodys into their fellowships. Otherwise when they moved around, they would never have any ...
Our exposure to the concept was more from them wanting to come and do an annual visit, to get out and 'meet the beleivers'. Get directions and find each fellowship in their branch before they went back to the ROCK and were relocated. I think that there may have been some kind of written reports or something that made WC branch Coordinators to go out and actualy find their twigs right before they went back to the ROCK and were relocated. Otherwise we would not have lost nearly as many beleivers as we did over the years.
It was bad enough during those annual 'limb-meeting / WC recruitment meetings', I hated those things. Always knew I was going to be 'confronted' by some jerk who did not know my name. But looking back I really dont think that we 'lost' people due to Limb Meetings per say, it was just that I hated them.
:-)
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signals
I said it before and I'll say it again...none, zip, nada, zero! Even when I was a WOW. Interesting story, when they use to have a witness sunday in the park or wherever, I would ask to go with the corps leader. Interesting thing is he was smooth, but we didn't catch any fish. Unlike the women who brought truckloads of guys, that never showed up again.
Sure, I felt a little guilty back then, but looking back fate was with me, because It would have felt worse had I lead someone in.
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lindyhopper
I had quite of bit of fruit, at least in da corps. That "fruit soup" Ch!p R**va used to make was the worst.
;)-->
When playing basketball and someone missed the backboard, rim, and everything, instead of yelling "BRICK!" as many do, we yelled FRUIT SOUP! lol
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lindyhopper
Actually there were a couple of people that came.
It seems there was usually some sort of romantic involvement before twig involvement. I never pressured people the way my mom was pressured to go. I also rarely witnessed to just random people unless we were forced to during an outreach event.
It turns out that most of the friends that I had spoken to that I still keep in touch with thought I was a little wacked out. And they STILL hung out with me and were friends with me. WOW!
I guess after leaving twi I found out who my friends really were. They are like family.
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herbiejuan
Belle, in answer to your queston, much. We didn't quite folow twi doctrine but overall much strength was built. We put together two twig pfal classes in a state that seemed incapable of putting one together of itself, dunno how much I contributed to that but some familial directions were changed and so far nobodies complained.
I always hated the pfal promo stuff we were expected to give, it reminded me of shaklee and amway
:)-->
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Galen
Herbiejuan-
What promotional stuff were you given?
I remember attending a public Exhibition of PFAL in 1979, when I signed up and paid for the class; though I do not recall what it was that they were showing.
In the late 1980's I was given a copy of 'changed'. I dont think it ever occured to us to show 'changed' as a public Exhibition for PFAL.
I do recall hearing of people who ran the first session of PFAL, as a public exhibition for putting together a class. I think that doing such would have been terribly difficult to do, since Limb offices routinely wanted to see proof that you already had 7 students signed-up and paid for, and a quart of blood before they would give you the first session of PFAL.
I do seem to think that the Twig Leader's handbook did list showing stuff for a public-ex, but I would rather have spent the day jabbing my face with a fork rather than going to limb and bleeding before them begging to get anything form of support for our twig.
Mind you I am only speaking from our terribly short and limited exposure to TWI over 18 years: in California, Washington, Connecticut, and Scotland.
:-)
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coolchef1248 @adelphia.net
gee as much as i hate to remember it we used to go in pairs at least twice a month.. door to door witnessing!! i hated it but thought i had to do it. fruit from these efforts zero! i did bring a number of folk into pfal from just talking to them as my normal self. nobody stayed though,but i will say that learning about the bible lot's of us are better for it.
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herbiejuan
Galen, the promo stuff was mostly way mag stuff and the state grapevine with a few kids way mag's thrown in. Out of four classes, derway provided zero students and minimal support.
Did I mention NO students and minimal support?
Sure hope I did
:)-->
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GrouchoMarxJr
My first year in twi, I got 8 people to take the class...which is more than the other 12 years put together.
Going out "witnessing" was pure torture for me...I hated every second of it. So did everyone else...We would usually end up in some bar polishing off several beers.
I'm happy to say that each of the 8 folks that I got into the class, quit twi before I did.
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Oakspear
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Oakspear
Let's see...
One guy in 1978 who was a childhood friend. He came up to me in a bar and asked about my green bumper sticker. Took the class, went WOW in Nebraska the year before I did, went into the Corps.
One guy on my WOW year. Struck up a conversation with him on the street. Everything other than his name was a lie! He crashed on our couch for a while, followed us when we got reassigned to another city, took PFAL. The last time I remember seeing him was when my WOW brother and I were trying to collect money that he owed some other wayfers, he marched into a police station and told the cops that we were cult members and that he wanted protection.
Another guy, in 1993 maybe. Met him in a bar, invited him to twig. He stuck around for a year before a class came together, went to the ROA, went as far as the intermediate class and left because he couldn't stand all the demands on his time.
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vickles
I could easily get together a class on my own. My favorite part. I think of all the years I was in I had four people finish the class but no one stuck around.
I thought I was the only one. I thought there was something wrong with me all those years that I wasn't producing more fruit in my life. Now I know the real truth!!!!!
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dmiller
Belle -- please define *fruit*.
:)-->
I had none (by twi standards), but my life since, has had a lot. Giving to those that need it, and seeing them respond in a positive manner -- yea - that is fruit, but I didn't sign them up for the *class*.
Money (from my pocket to theirs), and a few kind words on my part -- got fruit (but no *class involvement*).
I once saw a blind man, tapping his cane in the middle of a busy street, looking for the street corner, and though all other drivers passed him by, honking, none got out to help him find his familiar landmarks. I did, and I consider that fruit.
*Fruit* is something that is a result of our actions, and twi has no final definative definition on the subject -- since it is avarice that fuels their definition of *fruit*, which should be translated as "what is good for us".
David
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Belle
Touche`, my friend David, touche`!
:)-->
TWI's definition of fruit changed constantly but mostly meant how many people and/or how much money were you bringing into TWI. What's funny to me is that they always said you could tell a minister by his "fruit" but none of the corps (that I'm aware of) actually brought anyone to fellowship, much less put someone through any classes.
The Bible says that the fruit of the spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness and temperance. It also says that the fruit of the spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth. (Gal 5:22-23, Eph 5:9)
So TWI is teaching wrongly because I don't see anything in those verses about witnessing, abundant sharing or signing people up for classes. What I DO see is that your goodness and kind, gentle and loving manner overflows with fruit if the spirit!
:)--> I see the truth being told and exposed here on GSpot. I see people on here saying how much more joy, peace and goodness they experience in their lives once leaving TWI.
I know personally, that I feel more freedom to help people and, not only that, I WANT to and I ENJOY it. I am much more patient, whereas in TWI I was pretty much so unhappy and miserable and/or arrogant that I actually SOUGHT reasons to get p1ssed off at people or act un-ladylike. My whole demeanor is not much more gentle, peaceful, patient and life is so much better without the pressures, stress and other ugly stuff that came with involvement in TWI.
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vickles
Yes, and I don't have to worry about doing it so I don't have to clean toilets in the after life...
I can give of myself just because I have real joy and peace inside of me to give and I offer it because I choose to.
Thankgoodness I'm out!!!!!
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diazbro
I never got anyone signed up for PFAL but I got a few to twig though not just by myself. I was going to twig withs friends of mine so we might all mention it to people at different times so its hard to tell who was "the one" who got someone to come to twig. But I didn't care. I really didn't. If someone else got credit for it then so be it.
In my first twig there was a guy who never took PFAL yet got more people to come to twig than anyone who had taken PFAL ! He really liked hanging out at twig and thats all he really wanted. Of course once the corps types started trying to tell us how to run a twig they made it clear that people who weren't interested in PFAL should not be welcomed back.
I agree with the assessment that the women tended to bring alot more people to twig (almost always guys) most of whom showed up for a couple of twigs before they realized that the
women weren't interested in them for dating. OBviously people did come,stayed, and took the class but there was a prety high turnover rate in the early to mid 70s.
I visited one twig wherein the TC suggested to the guys that they invite more women to twig but it was so sqaure and uncool to chat up women about religion and church. I mean it was easy to talk to women at the mall but once you started talking about "fellowship" most of them started looking at their watches. Besides some of those women were pretty cute so I stopped mentioning the twig thing and would just ask them out on dates ! I figured if I liked them and they liked me I could always introduce them to that aspect of my life.
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dmiller
Awwww Belle, I knew what ya meant.
;)--> The sad thing is -- 20 odd years ago, I believed the same thing. Fruit wasn't fruit if it wasn't in the twi *pantry*. Any other actions done weren't considered fruitful for the ministry, if it did not translate to members, or money.
And as I say -- sadly, I bought into that for Lord knows how many years, thinking I had nothing to show for my life if I wasn't signing folks up for the class, and was ignoring the fact that helping others was more beneficial than adding to the coffers of twi.
I define fruit with a much different mind-set now, and am thankful for it.
:)-->
And yes you are right -- the biblical teaching of fruit denotes a giving to others, a giving of yourself, sharing of your abundance (be it money, time, ability, compassion, talent, knowledge, etc.) which will come back to YOU the believer as fruit, and to God who gave you and I the ability to give to others -- and NOT to the denomination you fellowship with.
Twi has set themselves up as god if they expect fruit for themselves from the things we have done.
David
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Belle
There was a lady in my first twig who came faithfully and always gave generously, but she either didn't take the class, didn't finish the class or just didn't speak in tongues, I can't remember. After Moneyhands came to town he had the HFC tell her that if she wasn't going to speak in tongues that she was no longer welcome at twig and that she was spiritually hitch-hiking off us.
Vickles, ain't it nice to forget about trying to get out of cleaning those toilets?
:D-->
David, isn't it great to not have that mindset anymore and to realize that it was wrong? I mean, it was really a relief to me to learn that TWI was teaching b.s. in that category. TWI teaches performance based religion but they keep moving the hoops they want you to jump through. If you're going to have to follow some stupid illogical doctrine to get to any rewards in heaven, I'd just as soon buy indulgences.
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GeorgeStGeorge
During my tenure with TWI (1978-1997), I brought about 50 people to fellowship (one of whom may still be in) and signed up a dozen or so for PFAL, most of whom completed the class. (How much money they gave, I don't know.)
During the same years, I was under the leadership of about 10 Corps personnel. I don't know the numbers, but I'd say that they all brought people in periodically. Interestingly, the couple that were "full-time" probably had the lowest amount of "fruit," because they were spending all their time rooting around in everyone else's business.
I never looked at witnessing as "fruit-gathering." To me, NOT witnessing was akin to "I have a jack, but I won't help you!"
George
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Ham
Well.. I probably introduced about fifty folks to da class. I can only think of five or six that really stuck with the "ministry". All that I followed up on are no longer in the cesspool, thank God..
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Galen
LOL
I only recall one guy who we signed up and then did not complete PFAL.
I agree with you entirely about the "I have a jack, but I wont help you" part. That has been exactly our attitude with it.
We never really paid much attention to how many 'stuck' with the ministry. That was not the purpose of witnessing to folks and getting them through PFAL. As we moved around, we kept in touch with many of the guys that we got through PFAL, and we were interested in whether or nto they were 'in' only in the context of seeing if we were going to bump into them some ministry function somewhere.
I commonly did try to warn folks as they transfered away so that they would not walk blindly into what they had thought would be a loving fellowship, and suddenly find a group of Hitlers.
A couple times we did hear that some were still 'in' and we prayed with them, in some cases it went on for years. In other case, we would get a call that they had tried such and such a fellowship, but got spat on [figuratively], and we prayed with them.
One man we got through PFAL {Dan] called me a week ago. He is a Methodist minister in South Carolina now. It did not really phase us at all that he was not able to successfully meld in with the nazis. We were and still are thankful that he was able to come into his own ministry and help others.
:-)
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ChasUFarley
That was true everwhere I lived when WC was FT - in TN, MA, and NH! I moved in with WC in MA - it was a single mother - I was her assistant. She could have knocked me over with a feather when she told me they hadn't had a new person to fellowship in 2 years! TWO YEARS! I brought several new people to that fellowship in the 6+ months that I lived with her - none of them stayed!
Why?
Because she either ****** them off, offended them or made them feel like an "exhibit" because they were new. She even knew how to make a night of bowling a pain in the a$$ because it wasn't about having "fun" - but about "confronting people with the Word" - even their first time meeting us! Scheesch!
Now that I look at it, maybe it was for the better!
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Belle
Chas, you just reminded me of one of the communion services we had in our area. It was when they were being done in the fellowship and we got.....GASP.....permission to invite new people to it because it would be a great time for them to learn the truth and to see what a communion service should be.
I had three or four girls from work come with me to the service. My ex was leading the communion because our hfc was out of town. He started talking about how Jesus wasn't some pansy, limp wristed gay fellow like the traditional churches teach and then totally went off on how he confronted the Pharisees of the day and I don't remember what else. I sat there next to him wishing I could shrink into the fabric of the chair.
Their faces were astonished, shocked and scared. They politely left as quickly as they could after everything was over. One girl never spoke to me again. She went out of her way to avoid me at work and I can't say I blame her. One girl expressed that she was very concerned about me and asked if I was really happy and if I was really getting what I needed regarding my relationship with Christ. I very boldly told her I was and that all our fellowships weren't like that (yeah, right!). I thought about that a lot afterwards. I think then I was really starting to come to terms with how unhappy I really was in TWI and how embarrassed I was to be associated with them. I remember thinking that if this was "the more abundant life" and these were the right answers, I wish I didn't have them.
Another couple in our apartment WANTED to come to fellowship with us and the girl wanted to take the class. Had her money ready and everything!! P@ul Br00ks told us that because they were living together and not married that one of them would have to move out and they would have to live apart for SIX MONTHS and planning their wedding before they would be welcome at fellowship. (I'm glad now that they didn't get involved, but I feel terrible about the girl having so many questions and needing so much love and learning about God. I hope that God got someone kind loving and genuinely good to take care of her and her heart. I'm sure He did because, thankfully, there are people who aren't TWI's kind of christians)
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