Just my own thoughts here, guys, but TWI was nothing less than a corporation in the business to make money
TWI was a lot less than shake the money maker into their pockets and a lot more into the ignorance of those they professed was from a lack of knowledge God's Word they seemed to think they knew and convinced others who really wanted to know in that they were so fkn CONfused in their own hearts their humble begginnings and WOW man over the world and a throne in oHIHO cornfields which still ignorantly persists today and also in the form of Tipp too eh it will never go away cause that's the way it is with those who claim a special knowledge and others must heed to them for special blessings and laying on of hands to pass that special knowledge in forms that seem simple to understand but yet somewhat a secret as if unspoken but you know but yet don't and go along with the flow of that type of thing and blind thinking untill ya so caught up in it and your eye fails out and the glass passed around the table like a special marble and others told to hold the damn sphere as if something special to behold and say oh my this man gave his eye
or here look at my dentures in a glass filled with polident
I took CFS 3 times. The segment with the slang words was #11 but I never saw the bestiality scene.
That is odd.
In the version that we have:
segment #8 is about following after society verses biblical cutures, the heart of ministering to others, renewed mind, slang terms, language barriers, and likemindedness.
segment #11 is finishing male anatomy, Female anatomy, 'fleshly pillow', a lot of detail about ovarys, eggs, sperm, and fertilization.
My My~~~ like old favorite videos~~~ groups of people still set up and view this stuff? Surely not like watching a good ole swashbuckling movie Erol Flynn style on a Satuday night with friends~~~~
But people actually gather around and sit down and watch CFS~~~
Like a group of friends who really enjoy that type of thing?
Remarkable~~~~
Well, I suppose Star Trek Conventions and Rocky Horror would kinda fit that genre~~~
I don't get it?!?!?! CFS ~~~ nope don't get it it at all!!!
As far as Jesus Christ appointing Dr as one of his spokesmen, you got it wrong in what I have reported. I have not claimed to have heard Jesus say that.
Mike, February 3, 2004, 5:22am.
quote:
Jesus Christ appointed Dr his spokesman.
Jesus Christ is VERY interested in PFAL.
He told me so.
Back to the 5/27 post...
quote:
I have been told here that my message differs from what Dr said and wrote. I have been told often that Dr never claimed to be writing God-breathed doctrine to us.
He claimed otherwise in the books. He claimed otherwise to the staff.
More than one member of staff told you this, and you ignored the books when we
cited them.
quote:
I say that the lack of diligence in our studying the written record Dr left us is where things went wrong for us.
Or it was less-than-perfect, just as vpw was less-than-perfect. Take both for
what they were, both good and bad.
quote:
You and others say you were diligent students. I say you were not (and I include my own guilty soul here too), but that many crucial things slipped passed you, me, and others, or were forgotten.
Your opinion, and you've told us many times. We all disagree.
quote:
Many crucial things slipped passed us all. These things would have given us a wonderful time, but instead we wasted a lot of time.
All the bad things were not vpw's fault, not the class' fault, yadda yadda yadda.
We've heard it, we're not buying.
quote:
One of the crucial things that was forgotten or that slipped passed us was that Dr MANY times claimed that he was speaking for God, and with greater authority than all the academic attempts to re-construct and translate the original scriptures.
It didn't slip by us because you've dreamed it up. You've taken sentences out of
their context, thus allowing you to use "private interpretation."
quote:
This item of Jesus Christ appointing Dr as a spokesman is one such item that you either forgot, or that slipped passed you unnoticed. It was Dr who claimed Jesus Christ appointed him as a spokesman, and it is in print near the end of the Introduction to JCNG, in the middle of page 9 in the 2nd edition, in italic type.
And yet, you don't CITE the exact statement, thinking either
A) We take your word for it
or
B) You're assigning us homework.
quote:
Many, many places where Dr claimed "Thus saith the Lord" were missed or forgotten by us all.
No, they were when he was quoting the BIBLE, the thing you've scorned.
quote:
Many, many places in the written formns PFAL where God taught us the spiritually abundant life were missed or forgotten by us all.
Like how giving money was a requirement, which was an entire book, and required
reading, yet it was wrong.
Here comes the sales pitch!
quote:
It's no too late to abandon the bitterness and all the soap operas and all the rumors, and to come back to the written record we were given to see the greatness of God.
I never forsook my Bible. Some people have, and that's their decision. I'm not
I took CFS 3 times. The segment with the slang words was #11 but I never saw the bestiality scene.
That is odd.
In the version that we have:
segment #8 is about following after society verses biblical cutures, the heart of ministering to others, renewed mind, slang terms, language barriers, and likemindedness.
segment #11 is finishing male anatomy, Female anatomy, 'fleshly pillow', a lot of detail about ovarys, eggs, sperm, and fertilization.
:-)
As you know, and as we've discussed here in detail previously....
there were several iterations of the CFS class.
One of the early versions, often taught live, was the one with the
"2-women-and-the-dog" movie.
In mine he described it, which was more than I needed, really.
Furthermore,
sometimes the sessions were run in different orders.
Unlike, say, the foundational class, this was manageable with a class where the
sessions didnt build on each other.
For that matter, I didn't really learn anything of use except the one segment
from Proverbs.
On another note, I found out where he got one comment.
VH1 was doing "I Love the 70's", and someone read a sentence from the book
"the Joy of Sex". It was word-for-word a sentence I'd commented on from the
The times I took it were 1980 (weekend at a Holiday Inn, Donnie Fugit class coordinator, next section over was a Baptist convention of some kind...nice), 1982 (another weekend event at a camp), and 1992 (in someone's house evenings stretched over several days). I know the original was filmed in 1975 so maybe they canned the bestiality scene like they did the wrong seed segment of PFAL.
If you don't feed the monster he will go elsewhere (hopefully). Just ignore him. Eventually it will get old talking to only him.
HCW, thank you, though, for setting straight any mis-interpretation people might have had about where you and the monster agree. :)-->
Jardinaro, thank you for taking the time to post all that information! When people share their experiences and what they know and observed it really helps, especially for those of us who weren't there.
I never had the class, but, Galen, I'm wondering what value you find in the class given what I've learned about it from on here. Do you think TWI quit showing it just because veepee was in it or do you think that it was too blatant in their position on sex, marriage and what's "normal"?
nobody "gave" vic the flick, he and HA went lookin' for it in an "adult shop" in Berzerkely, CA in the 69-70-71 time period. It was NOT in the video classes on the field but vic used it early on in the live classes(ask HopeRich) and later in the cfs classes done w/ the corps, though not every time.
"I never had the class, but, Galen, I'm wondering what value you find in the class given what I've learned about it from on here. Do you think TWI quit showing it just because veepee was in it or do you think that it was too blatant in their position on sex, marriage and what's "normal"?"
As has been stated previously many times, we run PFAL classes for our home-fellowships.
So we have no issues with running any of the old Way MInistry classes in our home fellowships, just as we did when we were still 'in'. We ran fellowships, for years, at each location that we were stationed. the Way Ministry flaking out, should have no substantial influence on me and my stnd with my Heavenly Father.
On GS there has been a great deal of discussion about what was, or what was not IN CF&S. Truly it had been so long since I had taken it that i did not really recall what was in it. But GS saw many debates and arguements over the class' content. I mentioned that our fellowship would likely be willing to view the class again to see exactly what is in the class. Since people here on GS seem to not be in argeement on it's content.
A copy of CF&S showed up in my mail-box, and thought about it for a long time, then finally we began.
Yes, I agree, that since you have never sat through the class, yet you have heard a great deal about it from GS, and you have likely formed a strong opinion about it. All from disagreeing memorys from so many who really dont remember exactly what was on it. And favoured very highly from everyone's other opinions of the man who teaches CF&S.
I know that this sounds insulting. I do not intend to insult anyone, but this is what has happened. Our memorys are old, and foggy. After much discussion on the topic, it is hard not to be influenced by our collective reasonings of how horrible everyone insists that VPW was.
I truly don't have any opinions about what was taught in the class as I have never taken it. Granted, I think the porno stuff and some of the comments I've heard said in the class were atrocious and completely inappropriate, but as far as the class having any merit or any good in it, I honestly don't know. That's why I asked.
Just like the other classes in TWI, there was good and bad in the classes because otherwise there would be no controversy and the counterfiet would have no value. ;)--> I don't doubt that this class is any different.
I wish you and I were closer. I'd be interested in seeing the class with my own two eyes, if for no other reason than morbid curiosity. :D-->
invite still open, Galen...come anytime we are having one, schedule very open to cancellation due to the folks around here and what is happening in their lives at the moment.
I am truly sorry you never met one person who partook in the corps program you could see anything good in... makes me wonder why you still have so much respect fer vic and piffle cuz the kork was vic's baby, ALL THE WAY...
"invite still open, Galen...come anytime we are having one, schedule very open to cancellation due to the folks around here and what is happening in their lives at the moment."
Thanks, next time I travel your way, I may give you a call.
"I am truly sorry you never met one person who partook in the corps program you could see anything good in... makes me wonder why you still have so much respect fer vic and piffle cuz the kork was vic's baby, ALL THE WAY..."
In perspective. So were the over-whelming majority of fellowships. With the possible exceptin of sometime later when things had changed to the point where most fellowships did envolve WC. In my travels, I never saw that. It certainly remains a possibility that at some point the WC had managed to take over an actual majority of fellowships. I would only be glad that I did not witness such.
In my ever so limited time 'in' The Way Ministry, in those oh so few fellowships, I would have to say that most were very loving and kind and minstered to everyone's needs. Anything could be prayed for, Any PFAL grad who had been doing some study on his own, was welcome to share his study. And things were generally great. I dont see why you need to be reminded of this, others have stated this as well.
No doubt to someone 'on assignment', going into an area, they likely drove right on past many sucessful fellowships, on their way to the limb office. Drove right by them, not knowing about them, not caring, and not disturbing them. Which was fine with us.
So there is room for differing opinions and differing observations. I would go into an area, call HQ for the limb's number, call that Limb and ask for the closest fellowship, call the Twig, and go to that local Twig. So my exposure to WC, often times would only be limited to those short phone calls. The rest of the time in an area, would be with beleivers. And often such times were great.
Every Joe Blow Beleiver Twig Coordinator was just also a product of VPW, PFAL and TWI's teachings. Did they all become nazi's? Certainly not. Well, or not immediately, not on their own. If they did become micro-managing sex-fiends [and I am sure that many did, as the years went by], it seems that such happened from their exposure to WC.
Do I say this from personal experience? NO.
Rather from reading GS Cafe. It would certainly appear that from the experiences of everyone here on GS, a person's first exposure to TWI was the best, and as the years went by it got dragged down. Whether you joined in 1970, or in 1975, or in 1980, or in 1985, or in 1990, etc.
As more and more local positions around the country were filled with the ever growing WC personnel [booting into M&A those who had previously held those positions] many fellowships got worse.
did see great horrible and un-christian deeds carried out while I was a follower of 'The Way'. But I never met VPW, my exposure to such deeds was from WC-grads. Which was why even to this day, the most loving fellowships that I ever saw, the most healing and prosperous Twigs were those entirely without WC in their branches
yeah so what ?
don't ever come visit me if you want a twig
but if you want to hang out and be friends, i'm all for it
as far as your never meeting that sunuvabitch wierwille, count yourself lucky
love, a way corps grad ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
It would certainly appear that from the experiences of everyone here on GS, a person's first exposure to TWI was the best, and as the years went by it got dragged down. Whether you joined in 1970, or in 1975, or in 1980, or in 1985, or in 1990, etc.
i think i say bullsheet on this one
they "honed in" (sp?) on my weaknesses and there you have it
It would certainly appear that from the experiences of everyone here on GS, a person's first exposure to TWI was the best, and as the years went by it got dragged down. Whether you joined in 1970, or in 1975, or in 1980, or in 1985, or in 1990, etc.
i think i say bullsheet on this one
they "honed in" (sp?) on my weaknesses and there you have it
plus i met that basturd almost immediately
>>>
Depends on the exact moment of hello or what happened very shortly afterward.
I was involved in Kryia Yoga and Dr. Bragg and lived a life style of health and inner peace.
Met the WOWs and one of the most advanced of the WOWs became my spiritual undershepherder.
He told me the stuff I know is advanced class material and wondered where i got all my info.
I told him and the look on his eyes was one of great concern and he told me if I continue that path I would eventually become
Every Joe Blow Beleiver Twig Coordinator was just also a product of VPW, PFAL and TWI's teachings. Did they all become nazi's? Certainly not. Well, or not immediately, not on their own. If they did become micro-managing sex-fiends [and I am sure that many did, as the years went by], it seems that such happened from their exposure to WC.
Yepper Galen, sure seemed that way.
I was a tco or asstco for most my TWInty years and uh yeah a product for sure of my past stemming back to the when of my memory of religous indoctrination of let's say FIVE years of age
Don't know if I'm giving the impression like I forgive or am trying to defend VP, because I'm not. But some information needs to be separated from speculation. VP was THEfalse prophet. No doubt in my mind. That's why if he lied once, it was all a lie, regardless how holy he is portrayed.
When I and others took the sex class, we pretty much got the impression that anything goes except anal! If you think any of them were against pre-marital sex, you are only fooling yourself. Consider this: While I was a WOW, at one of our meetings with Mrs. Limb/Region Leader asked that we refrain from pre-marital sex for just that year. Giving the impression that after WOW, you could have orgies for all we care. She made a reference to a movie where a soldier would excercise to take his mind off of the opposite sex. Someone burst out laughing and announced that his WOW brother does over 500 push ups a day and now he knows why!
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
TWI was a lot less than shake the money maker into their pockets and a lot more into the ignorance of those they professed was from a lack of knowledge God's Word they seemed to think they knew and convinced others who really wanted to know in that they were so fkn CONfused in their own hearts their humble begginnings and WOW man over the world and a throne in oHIHO cornfields which still ignorantly persists today and also in the form of Tipp too eh it will never go away cause that's the way it is with those who claim a special knowledge and others must heed to them for special blessings and laying on of hands to pass that special knowledge in forms that seem simple to understand but yet somewhat a secret as if unspoken but you know but yet don't and go along with the flow of that type of thing and blind thinking untill ya so caught up in it and your eye fails out and the glass passed around the table like a special marble and others told to hold the damn sphere as if something special to behold and say oh my this man gave his eye
or here look at my dentures in a glass filled with polident
or something like that
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Galen
That is odd.
In the version that we have:
segment #8 is about following after society verses biblical cutures, the heart of ministering to others, renewed mind, slang terms, language barriers, and likemindedness.
segment #11 is finishing male anatomy, Female anatomy, 'fleshly pillow', a lot of detail about ovarys, eggs, sperm, and fertilization.
:-)
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
My My~~~ like old favorite videos~~~ groups of people still set up and view this stuff? Surely not like watching a good ole swashbuckling movie Erol Flynn style on a Satuday night with friends~~~~
But people actually gather around and sit down and watch CFS~~~
Like a group of friends who really enjoy that type of thing?
Remarkable~~~~
Well, I suppose Star Trek Conventions and Rocky Horror would kinda fit that genre~~~
I don't get it?!?!?! CFS ~~~ nope don't get it it at all!!!
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WordWolf
Mike, May 27, 2005, 1:55pm, eastern.
Mike, February 3, 2004, 5:22am.
Back to the 5/27 post...
He claimed otherwise in the books. He claimed otherwise to the staff.
More than one member of staff told you this, and you ignored the books when we
cited them.
Or it was less-than-perfect, just as vpw was less-than-perfect. Take both for
what they were, both good and bad.
Your opinion, and you've told us many times. We all disagree.
All the bad things were not vpw's fault, not the class' fault, yadda yadda yadda.
We've heard it, we're not buying.
It didn't slip by us because you've dreamed it up. You've taken sentences out of
their context, thus allowing you to use "private interpretation."
And yet, you don't CITE the exact statement, thinking either
A) We take your word for it
or
B) You're assigning us homework.
No, they were when he was quoting the BIBLE, the thing you've scorned.
Like how giving money was a requirement, which was an entire book, and required
reading, yet it was wrong.
Here comes the sales pitch!
I never forsook my Bible. Some people have, and that's their decision. I'm not
gonna lord it over them.
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WordWolf
As you know, and as we've discussed here in detail previously....
there were several iterations of the CFS class.
One of the early versions, often taught live, was the one with the
"2-women-and-the-dog" movie.
In mine he described it, which was more than I needed, really.
Furthermore,
sometimes the sessions were run in different orders.
Unlike, say, the foundational class, this was manageable with a class where the
sessions didnt build on each other.
For that matter, I didn't really learn anything of use except the one segment
from Proverbs.
On another note, I found out where he got one comment.
VH1 was doing "I Love the 70's", and someone read a sentence from the book
"the Joy of Sex". It was word-for-word a sentence I'd commented on from the
CFS class, which I question the truth of.
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johniam
The times I took it were 1980 (weekend at a Holiday Inn, Donnie Fugit class coordinator, next section over was a Baptist convention of some kind...nice), 1982 (another weekend event at a camp), and 1992 (in someone's house evenings stretched over several days). I know the original was filmed in 1975 so maybe they canned the bestiality scene like they did the wrong seed segment of PFAL.
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Belle
If you don't feed the monster he will go elsewhere (hopefully). Just ignore him. Eventually it will get old talking to only him.
HCW, thank you, though, for setting straight any mis-interpretation people might have had about where you and the monster agree.
:)-->
Jardinaro, thank you for taking the time to post all that information! When people share their experiences and what they know and observed it really helps, especially for those of us who weren't there.
I never had the class, but, Galen, I'm wondering what value you find in the class given what I've learned about it from on here. Do you think TWI quit showing it just because veepee was in it or do you think that it was too blatant in their position on sex, marriage and what's "normal"?
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alfakat
nobody "gave" vic the flick, he and HA went lookin' for it in an "adult shop" in Berzerkely, CA in the 69-70-71 time period. It was NOT in the video classes on the field but vic used it early on in the live classes(ask HopeRich) and later in the cfs classes done w/ the corps, though not every time.
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Galen
Belle:
"I never had the class, but, Galen, I'm wondering what value you find in the class given what I've learned about it from on here. Do you think TWI quit showing it just because veepee was in it or do you think that it was too blatant in their position on sex, marriage and what's "normal"?"
As has been stated previously many times, we run PFAL classes for our home-fellowships.
So we have no issues with running any of the old Way MInistry classes in our home fellowships, just as we did when we were still 'in'. We ran fellowships, for years, at each location that we were stationed. the Way Ministry flaking out, should have no substantial influence on me and my stnd with my Heavenly Father.
On GS there has been a great deal of discussion about what was, or what was not IN CF&S. Truly it had been so long since I had taken it that i did not really recall what was in it. But GS saw many debates and arguements over the class' content. I mentioned that our fellowship would likely be willing to view the class again to see exactly what is in the class. Since people here on GS seem to not be in argeement on it's content.
A copy of CF&S showed up in my mail-box, and thought about it for a long time, then finally we began.
Yes, I agree, that since you have never sat through the class, yet you have heard a great deal about it from GS, and you have likely formed a strong opinion about it. All from disagreeing memorys from so many who really dont remember exactly what was on it. And favoured very highly from everyone's other opinions of the man who teaches CF&S.
I know that this sounds insulting. I do not intend to insult anyone, but this is what has happened. Our memorys are old, and foggy. After much discussion on the topic, it is hard not to be influenced by our collective reasonings of how horrible everyone insists that VPW was.
:-)
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Belle
I'm not insulted, Galen.
:)-->
I truly don't have any opinions about what was taught in the class as I have never taken it. Granted, I think the porno stuff and some of the comments I've heard said in the class were atrocious and completely inappropriate, but as far as the class having any merit or any good in it, I honestly don't know. That's why I asked.
Just like the other classes in TWI, there was good and bad in the classes because otherwise there would be no controversy and the counterfiet would have no value.
;)--> I don't doubt that this class is any different.
I wish you and I were closer. I'd be interested in seeing the class with my own two eyes, if for no other reason than morbid curiosity.
:D-->
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alfakat
invite still open, Galen...come anytime we are having one, schedule very open to cancellation due to the folks around here and what is happening in their lives at the moment.
I am truly sorry you never met one person who partook in the corps program you could see anything good in... makes me wonder why you still have so much respect fer vic and piffle cuz the kork was vic's baby, ALL THE WAY...
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Galen
alfakat:
"invite still open, Galen...come anytime we are having one, schedule very open to cancellation due to the folks around here and what is happening in their lives at the moment."
Thanks, next time I travel your way, I may give you a call.
"I am truly sorry you never met one person who partook in the corps program you could see anything good in... makes me wonder why you still have so much respect fer vic and piffle cuz the kork was vic's baby, ALL THE WAY..."
In perspective. So were the over-whelming majority of fellowships. With the possible exceptin of sometime later when things had changed to the point where most fellowships did envolve WC. In my travels, I never saw that. It certainly remains a possibility that at some point the WC had managed to take over an actual majority of fellowships. I would only be glad that I did not witness such.
In my ever so limited time 'in' The Way Ministry, in those oh so few fellowships, I would have to say that most were very loving and kind and minstered to everyone's needs. Anything could be prayed for, Any PFAL grad who had been doing some study on his own, was welcome to share his study. And things were generally great. I dont see why you need to be reminded of this, others have stated this as well.
No doubt to someone 'on assignment', going into an area, they likely drove right on past many sucessful fellowships, on their way to the limb office. Drove right by them, not knowing about them, not caring, and not disturbing them. Which was fine with us.
So there is room for differing opinions and differing observations. I would go into an area, call HQ for the limb's number, call that Limb and ask for the closest fellowship, call the Twig, and go to that local Twig. So my exposure to WC, often times would only be limited to those short phone calls. The rest of the time in an area, would be with beleivers. And often such times were great.
Every Joe Blow Beleiver Twig Coordinator was just also a product of VPW, PFAL and TWI's teachings. Did they all become nazi's? Certainly not. Well, or not immediately, not on their own. If they did become micro-managing sex-fiends [and I am sure that many did, as the years went by], it seems that such happened from their exposure to WC.
Do I say this from personal experience? NO.
Rather from reading GS Cafe. It would certainly appear that from the experiences of everyone here on GS, a person's first exposure to TWI was the best, and as the years went by it got dragged down. Whether you joined in 1970, or in 1975, or in 1980, or in 1985, or in 1990, etc.
As more and more local positions around the country were filled with the ever growing WC personnel [booting into M&A those who had previously held those positions] many fellowships got worse.
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excathedra
don't ever come visit me if you want a twig
but if you want to hang out and be friends, i'm all for it
as far as your never meeting that sunuvabitch wierwille, count yourself lucky
love, a way corps grad ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
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excathedra
they "honed in" (sp?) on my weaknesses and there you have it
plus i met that basturd almost immediately
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
>>>
Depends on the exact moment of hello or what happened very shortly afterward.
I was involved in Kryia Yoga and Dr. Bragg and lived a life style of health and inner peace.
Met the WOWs and one of the most advanced of the WOWs became my spiritual undershepherder.
He told me the stuff I know is advanced class material and wondered where i got all my info.
I told him and the look on his eyes was one of great concern and he told me if I continue that path I would eventually become
devil possessed.
never mind
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
Yepper Galen, sure seemed that way.
I was a tco or asstco for most my TWInty years and uh yeah a product for sure of my past stemming back to the when of my memory of religous indoctrination of let's say FIVE years of age
i'm 5ty now
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signals
Don't know if I'm giving the impression like I forgive or am trying to defend VP, because I'm not. But some information needs to be separated from speculation. VP was THEfalse prophet. No doubt in my mind. That's why if he lied once, it was all a lie, regardless how holy he is portrayed.
When I and others took the sex class, we pretty much got the impression that anything goes except anal! If you think any of them were against pre-marital sex, you are only fooling yourself. Consider this: While I was a WOW, at one of our meetings with Mrs. Limb/Region Leader asked that we refrain from pre-marital sex for just that year. Giving the impression that after WOW, you could have orgies for all we care. She made a reference to a movie where a soldier would excercise to take his mind off of the opposite sex. Someone burst out laughing and announced that his WOW brother does over 500 push ups a day and now he knows why!
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
Don't forget the other THE false four gift ministry's
ya know signal, when one does something to take ones mind off something it only intensifies the connection between the two.
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signals
I think your suffering from self-delusions, but analize away. After all, I'm who ever you want me to be. Perhaps I'm the man in the mirror.
Don't forget, Song, it is you who talks in circles, reads into, and analyses everything. Best thing is to let a fool stew in their own juices.
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
Damn I missed this one ~~~
jeeesh I almost feel like a Joe Walsh song coming on
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