I don't remember hearing anything about Wierwille's illness, and was rather shocked and surprised when he died. And, of course, we were not told he had cancer. I didn't even know he had lost an eye to it.
But The Way had a habit of "not preaching negatives" - even when it was the truth.
vp's illness was never told to us. It was only through Waydale did I find out the truth about the matter.
What I am saying in my post that ChasUFarley linked. No I did not know he had cancer I just noticed the quick decline. There was no mistaking it. He was pretty well shot before he went to Gartmore.
As far as his eye. vp announced on a sns that he had it removed. I don't recall the year off of top of my head
I am not an expert on cancer but that steep and quick decline can be and often is the nature of the beast. lcm is such a freakin moron to blame the quick decline on Ge@rs head. Not that I am fond of Ge@r either. It was lie after lie and it still is lie after lie.
Vp told everyone at some teaching (musta been roa) that his eye was burned up from the lights on the set when he did the pfal class on film.
He talked about how they were on a time constaint so he couldn`t stop to rest, just put cold wet cloths on em so he could continue....
He said that the pain was so bad in later years that he had it removed.
He claimed that he had *given his eye for God* (sounds a lot more dramatic than cancer no?) closely followed with demands of what *were WE were willing to give up for God*?
Just loafing, I agree, I had a pony, that had a cancerous eye removed. She was fine for almost two years and then suddenly, her symptoms reapeared. She started dropping weight and died in about 4 weeks.
The dramatic decline is not unusual...too right, lcm is such a freaking moron.
He had also had a mild stroke around the time his eye was removed. If you've seen a stroke victim, you know - one side of his mouth was paralyzed. I mentioned it to someone and they got all upset - don't say that, that's not true, etc. So since most of the HQ young people had never seen a mild stroke victim, I shut up. He had been away for awhile getting his eye out, I think he was also being nursed back after the mild stroke. I think the stroke definitely helped his rapid decline.
And docvic(praise be his name) mentioned that very shortly after the filming of piffle, a new kind of light was invented that would have mitigated damage to his eyes.
So the question is: did the damage to his eyes from the light help to hasten the ocular cancer? Or did it make no difference either way?
Good question Steve. I know that UV rays from sunlight can cause skin cancer. I don't know that artifial light produces UV ray's, but maybe someone with more knowledge in that area can "enlighten"(pun intended :)-->) us.
Vp told everyone at some teaching (musta been roa) that his eye was burned up from the lights on the set when he did the pfal class on film.
He talked about how they were on a time constaint so he couldn`t stop to rest, just put cold wet cloths on em so he could continue....
He said that the pain was so bad in later years that he had it removed.
He claimed that he had *given his eye for God* (sounds a lot more dramatic than cancer no?) closely followed with demands of what *were WE were willing to give up for God*?
I've never heard that ANY kind of light can cause eye cancer.
(Except excessive sunlight, now that we have a thinner ozone layer.)
vpw used to claim the lights filming pfal in the EARLY 70s cause PERMANENT DAMAGE
to his eyes.
What kind of lights were these-industrial lasers??
This was less than a month of filming.
Does anyone remember the film being washed out due to blindingly white light?
Me neither.
Was film of such low quality that they needed floodlights just to get the normal
room-light on the resultant film?
Not since movies added SOUND was it THAT severe.
vpw WAS exposed to a carcinogen (cancer-causing agent) all the time.
He chain-smoked all the time. He also DRANK all the time, which did not ensure a
healthy immune system to filter out the cancerous substances.
====
Is it possible that eyes that are cancer-infected due to exposure to carcinogens
can be more sensitive to bright-but not harmful- light levels?
Now, THAT I can believe. I'd guess that he got his cancer, and MAY have felt pain
with the bright lights because he had damaged eyes.
It's also possible (since I dont have firsthand accounts from witnesses)
that the lights never hurt him,
and that story was completely added like his "miraculous snowstorms."
Improbable?
No, just the type of spin control he regularly engaged in.
"Yes, my eye was destroyed. It wasnt my fault-it was the price I paid to bring you
pfal, the greatest revelation of God to his people since Paul dictated from his
prison cell, and I would gladly do it again for you all and lose my OTHER eye
because that's how much I looooove you, keeeds.....
So, even in telling people publicly this most likely fabricated story about giving his eye for God, he still never admitted publicly that it was cancer?
So the question is: did the damage to his eyes from the light help to hasten the ocular cancer? Or did it make no difference either way?
Probably true. I worked in the pro video field in the 80's and this was a big deal with quartz halogen lamps. Some actors came down with skin cancer and everyone was required to buy UV filters (just a piece of thick window glass) to put over the quartz lamps.
No there was never a public announcement by vp or the bod that I am aware of. The only thing I ever heard is "he fell asleep because was tired". After all was said and done after his death there was very little talk of vp until POP. There were teachings where it was said vp said this or that but never about the man vpw or his sickness.
It really makes me wonder what stupid f'tard idiots these people were that no one was going to ever find out. I can't believe I followed twi (that's another thread all in its' own).
About the lighs and his eyes. Know doubt that is what he told us all "It was the lights" Never "the damage from the lights caused cancer". It is amazing to me how the bod kept it (cancer) under wraps as long as they did even though it was a public record. It goes to show you how good these people were at deceiving.
There was a study done in 92 or so that exposed hairless mice to quarts halogen lights for 12 hours a day for a year. 100% of them developed skin tumors, mostly benign but some were cancerous. I don't know how many, but there were only a dozen or so mice so it was deemed a pilot study.
Later in 94ish a follow-up study (you've got to love that about science) studied 243 rodents. It was found that three strains of hairless mice developed skin tumors. All of those exposed to the brightest light (10,000 lux)for 12 hrs a day, developed very deformed lessions within 8 months. However benign and cancerous tumors formed from just a 50 watt spot light from the distance of 2 meters.
After the first study they required a simple glass filter to be put in front of the light for protection. The second study confirmed that the glass filter protected 100% of the mice exposed to it.
So there you go. Now we know VP was a hairless rodent. :D--> I knew it!
"R.O.U.S.'s? I don't believing them."
Now lets see all the studies on cigarettes and cancer. Do you have that kind of time? No? me neither. My guess, neither were that good for him but the class was filmed in a couple of months and he had a lifetime of smoking. I think the smoking was more likely. I believe that people that smoke can form cateracs and eye tumors from the smoke that they constantly blow up into them. Eye tumors were never found in the studies either.
Part of the reason for that last bit I said is because your eye is a "privileged site", meaning it has no imunity. It is the same for the womb. Other wise your body would attack that foreign entity (the baby with totally different DNA) as it does to transplant patients. Your eye is this way so that you are not constantly gooping up like you do with conjunctivitis or pink eye (which is not an infection of the eye but an infection of the conjunctiva, the protective membrane on your eyelids).
Damn, just a few years of being married to my wife and I sound like an expert.
So like I said, the eye tumor could be caused by smoking. Which could cause photophobia as could something going on in his brain. It happens to people with meningitis and other nervous system diseases. It could also happen if the cancer had spread to his brain.
Seeing as how he also had Metastatic Melanoma of the Liver in addition to the Ocular Melanoma. I seriously doubt any exposure to bright lights was the cause of all this cancer and the Ocular Melanoma was only one contributing cause to the demise of vee pee.
Here's his death certificate if anyone hasn't seen it:
Interocular Melanoma is a fancy name for 'eye cancer'.
Cancer is just a mutation of the DNA in a cell from any of a number of reasons, of which we don't know all of them. Once the damage is done your body can't fix it and it replicates uncontrolably. The differnt names of cancers don't have as much to do with what caused it but where in the body it is.
From the American Cancer Society "Documents" page..a document on Intraocular Melanoma":
quote:
Cancer cells develop because of damage to DNA. This substance is in every cell and directs all its activities. Most of the time when
DNA becomes damaged the body is able to repair it. In cancer cells, the damaged DNA is not repaired. People can inherit damaged
DNA, which accounts for inherited cancers. Many times though, a person's DNA becomes damaged from some environmental exposure,
like smoking. In many cases, scientists still do not understand why a person's DNA becomes damaged and leads to cancer.
Like WordWolf said it seems that it was his smoking and drinking that caused the cancer. As we all know drinking an lot alcohol can severely damage your liver. I wonder witch one started first. I would guess the eye and then later to is already damaged liver.
I had a sister in law who died of cancer; it started as breast cancer, but all treatment failed and it spread to her liver and she died not long after that. A friend who saw this said he saw her on Thanksgiving and her skin was as yellow as a lemon. She died Dec. 10. According to VPs death certificate he had ocular cancer for 18 months and liver cancer for 1 month. Going to Gartmore didn't cause his death; liver cancer hastened it.
I seriously question the doctrine of cancer itself being a devil spirit. Animals in the wild never get cancer; animals in captivity get it all the time. What? Devil spirits like zoos? It probably WAS a devil spirit(s) that originally caused it, but now you can get it from what you ingest.
Elisha died of a sickness (2 Kings 13:14). That didn't negate anything about HIS ministry.
This is a rare type of tumour and as for many other forms of cancer the exact cause is unknown. It is known that exposure to ultraviolet (UV) rays (either from the sun or sunbeds) increases the risk of developing melanoma of the skin. People whose skin burns easily are most at risk: typically, people with fair skin, fair or red hair and blue eyes. However, it is not yet known whether there is any link between UV ray exposure and the development of melanoma of the eye.
So the camera lights *may* have contributed to it.
So, even in telling people publicly this most likely fabricated story about giving his eye for God, he still never admitted publicly that it was cancer?
He never did. I remember in 1983 when I first got in twit that he had to cancel a meeting in our state because he wasn't well. That was about the time he had the eye removed. In 1985, months before he died, we had 24 hours of prayer for him because he was in bad shape. But we were never told what his ailment was. When he died, we were never told.
Even today, Howard Allen refers to Vic as a hero for enduring those hot lights from filming piffle. He said that they had to put cold compresses in between shootings. I remembered thinking "Why were those lights any different than other lights used in television shows?" We had soap operas and all kinds of actors under those lights for long period of time, why did VP have problems?
Even martinfart shared about how he was sitting next to vp's bed when he was in the hospital and how vp ripped him a new one about ministering healing to him. Still there was no mention of cancer.
When martinfart shared with the staff about don w having cancer, he didn't seem mad about it. He said that don could beat it. He seemed sorrowful for don. I was never aware of any riffs between them.
Even up to the day I left twit at the end of 2002, I never knew vp had cancer.
Also, martinfart said that geer had familiar spirits because he and his secretary saw a devil spirit in him which resembled vp. -->
Accusing geer of being possessed was martinfarts only way to get loyalty. It would separate people 50/50 at least. And it did, to his demise. He didn't win the popularity contest. Most arseholes don't.
My ex still refuses to believe that he died of cancer. I've told him I could show him the death certificate and he says it would doctored by those "cop out" websites and not reliable. -->
Maybe one day the Moneyhands will fess up to him about all the lies they've told, promulgated, covered and been paid for. It's going to be a rough day when he finds out if he finds out from someone else.
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Kevlar2000
I don't remember hearing anything about Wierwille's illness, and was rather shocked and surprised when he died. And, of course, we were not told he had cancer. I didn't even know he had lost an eye to it.
But The Way had a habit of "not preaching negatives" - even when it was the truth.
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justloafing
vp's illness was never told to us. It was only through Waydale did I find out the truth about the matter.
What I am saying in my post that ChasUFarley linked. No I did not know he had cancer I just noticed the quick decline. There was no mistaking it. He was pretty well shot before he went to Gartmore.
As far as his eye. vp announced on a sns that he had it removed. I don't recall the year off of top of my head
I am not an expert on cancer but that steep and quick decline can be and often is the nature of the beast. lcm is such a freakin moron to blame the quick decline on Ge@rs head. Not that I am fond of Ge@r either. It was lie after lie and it still is lie after lie.
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rascal
Vp told everyone at some teaching (musta been roa) that his eye was burned up from the lights on the set when he did the pfal class on film.
He talked about how they were on a time constaint so he couldn`t stop to rest, just put cold wet cloths on em so he could continue....
He said that the pain was so bad in later years that he had it removed.
He claimed that he had *given his eye for God* (sounds a lot more dramatic than cancer no?) closely followed with demands of what *were WE were willing to give up for God*?
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rascal
Just loafing, I agree, I had a pony, that had a cancerous eye removed. She was fine for almost two years and then suddenly, her symptoms reapeared. She started dropping weight and died in about 4 weeks.
The dramatic decline is not unusual...too right, lcm is such a freaking moron.
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Sunesis
He had also had a mild stroke around the time his eye was removed. If you've seen a stroke victim, you know - one side of his mouth was paralyzed. I mentioned it to someone and they got all upset - don't say that, that's not true, etc. So since most of the HQ young people had never seen a mild stroke victim, I shut up. He had been away for awhile getting his eye out, I think he was also being nursed back after the mild stroke. I think the stroke definitely helped his rapid decline.
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Steve!
And docvic(praise be his name) mentioned that very shortly after the filming of piffle, a new kind of light was invented that would have mitigated damage to his eyes.
So the question is: did the damage to his eyes from the light help to hasten the ocular cancer? Or did it make no difference either way?
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Bluzeman
Good question Steve. I know that UV rays from sunlight can cause skin cancer. I don't know that artifial light produces UV ray's, but maybe someone with more knowledge in that area can "enlighten"(pun intended
:)-->) us.
Rick
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WordWolf
I've never heard that ANY kind of light can cause eye cancer.
(Except excessive sunlight, now that we have a thinner ozone layer.)
vpw used to claim the lights filming pfal in the EARLY 70s cause PERMANENT DAMAGE
to his eyes.
What kind of lights were these-industrial lasers??
This was less than a month of filming.
Does anyone remember the film being washed out due to blindingly white light?
Me neither.
Was film of such low quality that they needed floodlights just to get the normal
room-light on the resultant film?
Not since movies added SOUND was it THAT severe.
vpw WAS exposed to a carcinogen (cancer-causing agent) all the time.
He chain-smoked all the time. He also DRANK all the time, which did not ensure a
healthy immune system to filter out the cancerous substances.
====
Is it possible that eyes that are cancer-infected due to exposure to carcinogens
can be more sensitive to bright-but not harmful- light levels?
Now, THAT I can believe. I'd guess that he got his cancer, and MAY have felt pain
with the bright lights because he had damaged eyes.
It's also possible (since I dont have firsthand accounts from witnesses)
that the lights never hurt him,
and that story was completely added like his "miraculous snowstorms."
Improbable?
No, just the type of spin control he regularly engaged in.
"Yes, my eye was destroyed. It wasnt my fault-it was the price I paid to bring you
pfal, the greatest revelation of God to his people since Paul dictated from his
prison cell, and I would gladly do it again for you all and lose my OTHER eye
because that's how much I looooove you, keeeds.....
*lights another cigarette* "
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WordWolf
What would a bright stage-light have to do with a devil, anyway?
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Belle
So, even in telling people publicly this most likely fabricated story about giving his eye for God, he still never admitted publicly that it was cancer?
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Jim
Probably true. I worked in the pro video field in the 80's and this was a big deal with quartz halogen lamps. Some actors came down with skin cancer and everyone was required to buy UV filters (just a piece of thick window glass) to put over the quartz lamps.
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justloafing
No there was never a public announcement by vp or the bod that I am aware of. The only thing I ever heard is "he fell asleep because was tired". After all was said and done after his death there was very little talk of vp until POP. There were teachings where it was said vp said this or that but never about the man vpw or his sickness.
It really makes me wonder what stupid f'tard idiots these people were that no one was going to ever find out. I can't believe I followed twi (that's another thread all in its' own).
About the lighs and his eyes. Know doubt that is what he told us all "It was the lights" Never "the damage from the lights caused cancer". It is amazing to me how the bod kept it (cancer) under wraps as long as they did even though it was a public record. It goes to show you how good these people were at deceiving.
Okay, back to work.
:)-->
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lindyhopper
There was a study done in 92 or so that exposed hairless mice to quarts halogen lights for 12 hours a day for a year. 100% of them developed skin tumors, mostly benign but some were cancerous. I don't know how many, but there were only a dozen or so mice so it was deemed a pilot study.
Later in 94ish a follow-up study (you've got to love that about science) studied 243 rodents. It was found that three strains of hairless mice developed skin tumors. All of those exposed to the brightest light (10,000 lux)for 12 hrs a day, developed very deformed lessions within 8 months. However benign and cancerous tumors formed from just a 50 watt spot light from the distance of 2 meters.
After the first study they required a simple glass filter to be put in front of the light for protection. The second study confirmed that the glass filter protected 100% of the mice exposed to it.
So there you go. Now we know VP was a hairless rodent.
:D--> I knew it!
"R.O.U.S.'s? I don't believing them."
Now lets see all the studies on cigarettes and cancer. Do you have that kind of time? No? me neither. My guess, neither were that good for him but the class was filmed in a couple of months and he had a lifetime of smoking. I think the smoking was more likely. I believe that people that smoke can form cateracs and eye tumors from the smoke that they constantly blow up into them. Eye tumors were never found in the studies either.
So there you go.
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lindyhopper
Part of the reason for that last bit I said is because your eye is a "privileged site", meaning it has no imunity. It is the same for the womb. Other wise your body would attack that foreign entity (the baby with totally different DNA) as it does to transplant patients. Your eye is this way so that you are not constantly gooping up like you do with conjunctivitis or pink eye (which is not an infection of the eye but an infection of the conjunctiva, the protective membrane on your eyelids).
Damn, just a few years of being married to my wife and I sound like an expert.
So like I said, the eye tumor could be caused by smoking. Which could cause photophobia as could something going on in his brain. It happens to people with meningitis and other nervous system diseases. It could also happen if the cancer had spread to his brain.
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signals
First let's find his eye cancer. Since I have no idea what it was, here is just one:
Intraocular Melanoma
There are others. Once you find the cancer we can see it's history and symptoms!
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Belle
Seeing as how he also had Metastatic Melanoma of the Liver in addition to the Ocular Melanoma. I seriously doubt any exposure to bright lights was the cause of all this cancer and the Ocular Melanoma was only one contributing cause to the demise of vee pee.
Here's his death certificate if anyone hasn't seen it:
GSpot Document - VP DC
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lindyhopper
Interocular Melanoma is a fancy name for 'eye cancer'.
Cancer is just a mutation of the DNA in a cell from any of a number of reasons, of which we don't know all of them. Once the damage is done your body can't fix it and it replicates uncontrolably. The differnt names of cancers don't have as much to do with what caused it but where in the body it is.
From the American Cancer Society "Documents" page..a document on Intraocular Melanoma":
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lindyhopper
Thanks Belle,
Like WordWolf said it seems that it was his smoking and drinking that caused the cancer. As we all know drinking an lot alcohol can severely damage your liver. I wonder witch one started first. I would guess the eye and then later to is already damaged liver.
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johniam
I had a sister in law who died of cancer; it started as breast cancer, but all treatment failed and it spread to her liver and she died not long after that. A friend who saw this said he saw her on Thanksgiving and her skin was as yellow as a lemon. She died Dec. 10. According to VPs death certificate he had ocular cancer for 18 months and liver cancer for 1 month. Going to Gartmore didn't cause his death; liver cancer hastened it.
I seriously question the doctrine of cancer itself being a devil spirit. Animals in the wild never get cancer; animals in captivity get it all the time. What? Devil spirits like zoos? It probably WAS a devil spirit(s) that originally caused it, but now you can get it from what you ingest.
Elisha died of a sickness (2 Kings 13:14). That didn't negate anything about HIS ministry.
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Steve!
From www.cancerbacup.org.uk/info/ocular-melanoma.htm:
What causes ocular melanoma?
This is a rare type of tumour and as for many other forms of cancer the exact cause is unknown. It is known that exposure to ultraviolet (UV) rays (either from the sun or sunbeds) increases the risk of developing melanoma of the skin. People whose skin burns easily are most at risk: typically, people with fair skin, fair or red hair and blue eyes. However, it is not yet known whether there is any link between UV ray exposure and the development of melanoma of the eye.
So the camera lights *may* have contributed to it.
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Oakspear
It wasn't the cancer that negated any ministry that Wierwille might have had, it was his behavior.
The cancer only gets brought up because he himself taught that cancer was a devil spirit. How ironic that he died of cancer.
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Nottawayfer
He never did. I remember in 1983 when I first got in twit that he had to cancel a meeting in our state because he wasn't well. That was about the time he had the eye removed. In 1985, months before he died, we had 24 hours of prayer for him because he was in bad shape. But we were never told what his ailment was. When he died, we were never told.
Even today, Howard Allen refers to Vic as a hero for enduring those hot lights from filming piffle. He said that they had to put cold compresses in between shootings. I remembered thinking "Why were those lights any different than other lights used in television shows?" We had soap operas and all kinds of actors under those lights for long period of time, why did VP have problems?
Even martinfart shared about how he was sitting next to vp's bed when he was in the hospital and how vp ripped him a new one about ministering healing to him. Still there was no mention of cancer.
When martinfart shared with the staff about don w having cancer, he didn't seem mad about it. He said that don could beat it. He seemed sorrowful for don. I was never aware of any riffs between them.
Even up to the day I left twit at the end of 2002, I never knew vp had cancer.
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Nottawayfer
Also, martinfart said that geer had familiar spirits because he and his secretary saw a devil spirit in him which resembled vp.
-->
Accusing geer of being possessed was martinfarts only way to get loyalty. It would separate people 50/50 at least. And it did, to his demise. He didn't win the popularity contest. Most arseholes don't.
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Belle
My ex still refuses to believe that he died of cancer. I've told him I could show him the death certificate and he says it would doctored by those "cop out" websites and not reliable.
-->
Maybe one day the Moneyhands will fess up to him about all the lies they've told, promulgated, covered and been paid for. It's going to be a rough day when he finds out if he finds out from someone else.
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