"never ever has God hurt or even slighted ANYONE!!
He so loved the world that He GAVE HIs ONLY BEGOTTEN Son. "
I know this is a complete derail and belongs in the doctrinal thread, and I honestly mean no disrespect, but this is something I struggled with even while in TWI.
It makes no sense to me to say that God never hurt anyone, and in the next breath say he gave his son, when the giving of his son required a tremendous amount of pain and suffering.
Sorry, I would like to understand it, honestly, but I just don't.
I respond to you with what the Bible says and you respond with your emotions.
Jesus Christ himself said in Luke 11:13 that even evil men could give good gifts to their children.
Romans goes one step further, it says there is none that doeth good, no not one.
__________________
Romans 3:10 – 12
As it is written, there is none righteous, no not one.
There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
______________________________
Should I not be quoting Paul because he was probably a murderer? If so then we will have a short conversation.
What is your resistance to this? We were all in the same boat and it was going nowhere without God. If God throws a person a life raft and they choose not to get into it that's their fault, not God's. He doesn't save beyond what we will allow him to. I knew some inmates including a couple of muderers, who accepted Christ after they were convicted, wonderful believers. Just because we choose to accept God’s invitation to grace doesn’t mean everyone in the world will. Jesus Christ made it clear in John 13-17 that the world will not accept what God offers and will even hate Gods people for accepting Christ. God didn't create mankind as it is in its current unrenewed state.
To hold God responsible for whatever goodness may dwell in a murderers heart is disrespectful to God and the sacrifice he offered in his son. Doing so means that God is somehow responsible for all that the murderer does. Unless that individual accepts Christ he is evil, just as we all were. Not Gods fault, man's. God did more than he had to to save us from the evil who we were.
The bible says we were without God and without hope, children of wrath, enemies to God and dead in our sins. We were called enemies of God before the new birth. If God is good and we were his enemies than what does that make us if not evil?
You’re proving my point; if we are unwilling to confront the destructiveness of these people then their behavior is going to make our communities more dangerous than ever. You commented on my bitterness. Without knowing me you’ve directed more anger, judgment and disregard toward me than you have toward the murderers who you think have so much good in them. It’s unfortunate that I don’t deserve the same benefit of a doubt that you so willing give to a woman who would kill her own children.
Matthew 12:35
A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.
This makes it pretty clear where these things come from. Based on what we know from the epistles Jesus Christ was the only good man. The rest of us fell into the second category.
The behavior of a murderer is evil, whether you like it or not. Yes salvation is available to all men, murderer or not. But we're not talking about salvation we're talking about what it will take to protect our communities and children. We have to be willing to recognize what causes this behavior and people like you will never acknowledge the real problem.
God created mankind and He said it was good all of his creation.
God does not think his people are evil. People have sins they are involved in. some are more spectacular than others. but sin is sin , Jesus died for all of them for all of us.
Why people commint murder well why did paul? because they are fooled and tricked and desperate and all the other reasons God speaks of at length on why His children disobey.
that doesnt change how much God loves them or what length He will go to forgive them . why is that? BECAUSE they are not evil and worthless in His eyes, no one is.
You can ask why forever, people are involved in many behaviours that hurt one another, God is not. God is a spirit and deals with us on a spiritual level. not a cause and concern level we all know why evil is here on earth if we took bible 101 and hello recognize an enemy is still trying to rack and ruin mankind that God loves. it is between them people just play the pawns if they do not listen to the right one.
Recognizing the depths of sin that man is in doesn't reflect negatively on God's goodness. In fact it shows the lengths that God went to to provide a way out for man.
The devil made me do it wasn't a legitimate excuse for Adam & Eve and it isn't today. I'm well aware of the darker forces in this world but most of mankind has been in collusion with those forces since he was cast out of eden. All men have a choice, they are not simply pawns being pushed around by the devil. If so they would never be able to turn to God for help; the devil just wouldn't allow it. They have to choose to allow God's grace in their lives.
If you don't want to see things this way that's your choice but you're ignoring overwhelming scripture to the contrary.
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Abigail
"never ever has God hurt or even slighted ANYONE!!
He so loved the world that He GAVE HIs ONLY BEGOTTEN Son. "
I know this is a complete derail and belongs in the doctrinal thread, and I honestly mean no disrespect, but this is something I struggled with even while in TWI.
It makes no sense to me to say that God never hurt anyone, and in the next breath say he gave his son, when the giving of his son required a tremendous amount of pain and suffering.
Sorry, I would like to understand it, honestly, but I just don't.
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dizzydog
MJ,
I respond to you with what the Bible says and you respond with your emotions.
Jesus Christ himself said in Luke 11:13 that even evil men could give good gifts to their children.
Romans goes one step further, it says there is none that doeth good, no not one.
__________________
Romans 3:10 – 12
As it is written, there is none righteous, no not one.
There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
______________________________
Should I not be quoting Paul because he was probably a murderer? If so then we will have a short conversation.
What is your resistance to this? We were all in the same boat and it was going nowhere without God. If God throws a person a life raft and they choose not to get into it that's their fault, not God's. He doesn't save beyond what we will allow him to. I knew some inmates including a couple of muderers, who accepted Christ after they were convicted, wonderful believers. Just because we choose to accept God’s invitation to grace doesn’t mean everyone in the world will. Jesus Christ made it clear in John 13-17 that the world will not accept what God offers and will even hate Gods people for accepting Christ. God didn't create mankind as it is in its current unrenewed state.
To hold God responsible for whatever goodness may dwell in a murderers heart is disrespectful to God and the sacrifice he offered in his son. Doing so means that God is somehow responsible for all that the murderer does. Unless that individual accepts Christ he is evil, just as we all were. Not Gods fault, man's. God did more than he had to to save us from the evil who we were.
The bible says we were without God and without hope, children of wrath, enemies to God and dead in our sins. We were called enemies of God before the new birth. If God is good and we were his enemies than what does that make us if not evil?
You’re proving my point; if we are unwilling to confront the destructiveness of these people then their behavior is going to make our communities more dangerous than ever. You commented on my bitterness. Without knowing me you’ve directed more anger, judgment and disregard toward me than you have toward the murderers who you think have so much good in them. It’s unfortunate that I don’t deserve the same benefit of a doubt that you so willing give to a woman who would kill her own children.
Matthew 12:35
A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.
This makes it pretty clear where these things come from. Based on what we know from the epistles Jesus Christ was the only good man. The rest of us fell into the second category.
The behavior of a murderer is evil, whether you like it or not. Yes salvation is available to all men, murderer or not. But we're not talking about salvation we're talking about what it will take to protect our communities and children. We have to be willing to recognize what causes this behavior and people like you will never acknowledge the real problem.
Yes this is becoming a doctrinal debate.
Edited by dizzydogLink to comment
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mj412
God created mankind and He said it was good all of his creation.
God does not think his people are evil. People have sins they are involved in. some are more spectacular than others. but sin is sin , Jesus died for all of them for all of us.
Why people commint murder well why did paul? because they are fooled and tricked and desperate and all the other reasons God speaks of at length on why His children disobey.
that doesnt change how much God loves them or what length He will go to forgive them . why is that? BECAUSE they are not evil and worthless in His eyes, no one is.
You can ask why forever, people are involved in many behaviours that hurt one another, God is not. God is a spirit and deals with us on a spiritual level. not a cause and concern level we all know why evil is here on earth if we took bible 101 and hello recognize an enemy is still trying to rack and ruin mankind that God loves. it is between them people just play the pawns if they do not listen to the right one.
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Share on other sites
dizzydog
MJ,
Recognizing the depths of sin that man is in doesn't reflect negatively on God's goodness. In fact it shows the lengths that God went to to provide a way out for man.
The devil made me do it wasn't a legitimate excuse for Adam & Eve and it isn't today. I'm well aware of the darker forces in this world but most of mankind has been in collusion with those forces since he was cast out of eden. All men have a choice, they are not simply pawns being pushed around by the devil. If so they would never be able to turn to God for help; the devil just wouldn't allow it. They have to choose to allow God's grace in their lives.
If you don't want to see things this way that's your choice but you're ignoring overwhelming scripture to the contrary.
Edited by dizzydogLink to comment
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