All of the "healing" I saw, had, or did were in regards to pain, ie. making it go away. I had my wisdon teeth taken out at one time and boy did that smart afterwards. That night the big wig of the ENTIRE STATE echo echo echo(less people than a normal church)was at our fellowship. He asked if I wanted to be prayed for. I said sure. It went away right as he said amen. Later that night it returned. Go figure.
These days I think that many things are in our head, then again many are not. But I think pain inperticular is one we can suppress or increase just by using your mental muscles so to speak. You see it in martial arts. You see it in hypocondriacs. I knew a guy who could say to himself "OK this is the last hick-up" and it would be. I still can't do that one.
Now concerning big things like diabetes, cancer, AIDS, broken legs, lame from their mother's womb...never seen it. I've read a lot of things and heard a lot of things, but I never hear any folow up reports or see any proof.
But I do think the brain is a powerful tool. More people should use it. ;)-->
Interesting topic.The 'major' healings we have seen(or been involved in)have really happened AFTER leaving TWI.I posted before about Selinas 8 year old niece being 'raised' out of a coma a 1/2 hour after being prayed over.She had meningococal meningitis(inflamation of the brain.)
Her uncle, the country co-ord.'right hand man' was too 'busy'(scared)at the time to go up to the hospital the whole time.
It was a bit of a standing joke with some of us(while we were still 'in')how the country co-ord. and his wife would rush their kids off to the doctor if they even sniffled,even Selina was amazed how one time when we babysat for them while they were in the States, she had to take their toddler for her immunisation shot and the nurses started joking when Selina walked in with her!!
I believe that these 'turkeys' KNOW that they are so far out of fellowship with God they really have MANY fears.
Oh, and btw, we know of another man came visiting whilst in Auckland (from Fiji) for a brain tumour operation; prayed over, healed,went back to Fiji without the operation and now doing well and living in the good ol U.S.A.
Let me put it this way...They never healed me! Therefore if there ever were 'healings' I would have to believe that Ernest Angsley(or whatever his name was) had that market cornered.
I remember TWI, from weirwill on down, that you want to get so excited like the book of acts that you can't remember who the last guy you rose from the dead was. Stay tuned on this one because someone claimed they did it.
In my local paper from prweb.com, there was an article yesterday. A man will summon UFO's to earth beginning June 1. For only 45 days-6/1-7/15-Prophet Yahweh, Seer of Yahweh, will call down UFOs and spaceships for the newsmedia to film and photograph. This will occur in Las Vegas, of course. Prophet Yahweh claims to have summoned 1500 UFOs to earth since 1979, with only a few witnesses and close friends. Stay tuned!
Here is where I agree with VP. He's going to really count on that Devil Spirit. Of course it is Las Vegas. Did those other nutzoids ever show their clone baby?
doesn't it feel good to see others fall for a bunch of lies.
For the record, one would have to define healing or give a sense of it. For example, if you are diagnosed with a life threatening disease, curing it would be considered a healing. Let me throw this at you...My doctor gave me a complete physical. In the chest X-ray he found some scarred tissue that raised a red flag. He sent me for a CT Scan. My pastor and church prayed for me, and I tried to believe it wasn't the nasty lung C. I saw my dr. yesterday and he told me the lungs were fine and nothing to worry about at this time. Was it a healing?
I had an experience I remember from a Way Family Camp in 1974.
I had a pain in my abdomen and got ministered to for it.
I still had the pain so I got ministered to again.
I still didn't believe it so I got ministered to a third time. The third person said, "The cause has been removed and what are left are symptoms." In other words, "You're already healed, dummy, so stop getting ministered to."
In the early 70's we used to minister healing a lot and it would go on for several minutes and more often than not it was right on the money. We didn't tell people what the problem was, they just spoke it by word of knowledge or whatever it was.
This happened to me several times.
That was before things all got shot to hell.
I was in a manic/psychotic episode at Corps Week 1982 and no one ministered to me and it never occured to me to ask for it. Then they kicked me out and made me go home.
I've seen a few....even performed a few. There are stories around here about them.
One was the restoration of the function of a stroke victim's right arm. Then there was healing of shoulder ligaments...that was instantaneous...and also tc's throat at communion. He had had some necessary surgery there, however had trouble talking and lots of pain from incisions. Immediately the incision healeed and pain was gone. I never prayed out loud for him....it was communion, after all,..and I didn't want to embarrass him.
They were happening to those who would accept them and by way of those who continued to believe God wanted them done!
Let me see if I got this straight, and really, I mean no disrespect to you, just want to understand what you're saying.
The Driver: "Every bone in his face was crushed...parents came and hired the best plastic surgeon in the country to put his face back together from a picture. That is all they had to go by"
Driver's Wife: "a broken neck and ruptured spleen"
Driver & Wife: "both seriously injured and required extensive hospital care and rehab"
Other Guy: "died from his injuries a day later"
You: "I got some good pain pills from the hospital that night and the next couple days discovered bruises all over my body that I never even knew I had. Up one side and down the other. I had to soak in a hot tub for relief" and "The very first anxiety attack that I suffered was in a car. It was horrible. It grew to agorophobia...triggers my panic attacks...I am currently on medication for that and am still very fearful of driving. I hate the interstate or any highway that is fast. I will find the country route"
I'm sorry, I'm missing the miracle. Okay, I know that you are alive, and didn't sustain any major injuries, but one out of four people in the incident died, one had to have his entire face rebuilt, which was so bad that they needed photos to tell what he looked like; and you still have lingering effects of the accident.
And the guy who died wasn't even the one responsible for the wreck like the driver was, he was just a poor schmoe who wasn't the recipient of a "miracle". Too bad that those TWI b*st*rds claimed that he "wasn't believing, put the blame on the victim...it's always your fault that bad things happen...unless you're a MAN OF GAWD, then you are "tired of the fight", or whatever.
Hey, I'm sorry that that happened to you, sorry that TWI tried to make you all look bad in the aftermath, but where's the miracle?
By the way...yes, I do believe that the supernatural can and does occur (hey, I can get my skeptic's card taken away for that) and yes, I have been in a car wreck where I thought I was going to die and walked away unscathed.
God works, despite the outfit that is promoting Him. Can I get an *amen* here? -->
twi taught the reality -- then refused to stand up and *be counted* when the chips were down -- backing out of all responsibility -- cause they knew they couldn't deliver -- spouting *doctrine*, instead of real deliverance.
I have seen my share of healings also, and some have been done on me. The fact that twi taught that they could be done, doesn't negate the fact that God can accomplish them. I never thought of twi when my particular instances were happening -- I thought of the Father above, who can and does answer -- when asked.
I am walking today, when I should have been *laid low* many years ago, so my emphatic answer is *YES*. While I look in askance at the twi *view of things*, I realize that there is a God in heavan -- who takes time out of His day -- to pay attention to some one like me.
No -- I usually don't question miracles or healing, and yes I have seen some. But that never did stop me from questioning the outfits that claim to believe in such -- and then *skew* things to their advantage.
I can attest to one in my life. But I would not be surprised if no one believed it since I was alone at the time and "ministered" to myself.
I fell down a small flight of stairs behind myhouse and broke my left leg. I knew it was broken because I could see the bone sticking out through the skin. The pain had overloaded my nerves so the pain did not seem as great as it could have been. I commanded it healed and watched the bone slide back under the skin and the puncture heal.
I have also ministered to my wife for back pain and she has been immediately healed. She has also done the same for me. My son always come to me to healed of headachs, he says they leave as soon I finish.
On the other hand - I've never seen a healing of the common cold.
Sorry for the double post, but I thought I should mention that none of these healings happened while I was in TWI and most of what I learned about healing, I learned elsewhere.
Back in '85' my wife slipped on some ice. I brought her to the clinic, and xrays showed a broken ankle bone. Doctor put a splint on her, and told her to stay off her feet and come back in 1 week to have a cast put on. Two days later, when we had communion at fellowship, she felt her bone go back in place. She continue to stay off her feet per doctor's orders. When we went back to clinic, doctor had another xray taken. They then took a second, then a third set of xrays. Our doctor brought us in the office and showed us the 4 sets of xrays. The one taken the week before clearly showed a broken bone. The 3 new ones showed it being healed. Yes, God does heal. I personally seen other healings, but this one has medical evidence.
I can attest to one in my life. But I would not be surprised if no one believed it since I was alone at the time and "ministered" to myself
Doesn't matter if anyone believes it or not, does it? There was a definite problem (broken bone, attested to by the bone sticking out of your skin) and a definite solving of the problem (bone sliding back in, puncture closed).
Usually the "healings" consist of: I prayed and my cold went away...seven days later. :P--> Things like that are different from believing or disbelieving someone's account, it's more along the lines of "yeah, so what?"
Back in '85' my wife slipped on some ice. I brought her to the clinic, and xrays showed a broken ankle bone. Doctor put a splint on her, and told her to stay off her feet and come back in 1 week to have a cast put on. Two days later, when we had communion at fellowship, she felt her bone go back in place.
She continue to stay off her feet per doctor's orders. When we went back to clinic, doctor had another xray taken. They then took a second, then a third set of xrays. Our doctor brought us in the office and showed us the 4 sets of xrays.
The one taken the week before clearly showed a broken bone. The 3 new ones showed it being healed. Yes, God does heal. I personally seen other healings, but this one has medical evidence. (bold my emphasis)
Oak -- no I am not, but I wish you were around to follow (here in Minney-soda), cause I just got back from the household goods aisle in my local grocery store -- and the *heavy revvy* ain't workin' about which detergent to buy!
Oakspear, I see the one you responded to apparently decided to withdraw her post. Please go easy on her; apparently, she said she is still working things out from that time. It was horrendous. I'd like to thank her for speaking up and send her my love. Hi honey, I miss you.
I was the driver of the car, Oak. There are details about what happened after the car wreck to which you are not privy, and I'm not going to go into them here. All I'm saying is you don't know what happened. It is easy to slam TWI for blaming it on people's believing, but that still leaves you not knowing what happened.
I've been through this particular account of healing before on a thread about miracles - which might be more what we are asking about here rather than healing - or not. But anyway, I'm going to repost here what I did on that thread and then maybe add some things.
quote:
I'm sorry for repeating this to those who have heard it before.
The year was 1976. I was in The Way Marketing Dept.
I was in a car wreck. Later, after I was on outpatient care, I asked my doctor what damage I had. He showed me a book with all the possible head fractures, and told me I had all of them, that a patient from a motorcycle accident had just been admitted with 2/3 of the damage that I'd had, and they didn't expect him to make it.
I was alive - a miracle? No, although I think there were miracles involved in the process.
I don't remember this, but I was told later that I "died" many times in the first days while totally on life support, but they brought me back (I think the number is seven times, but I'm not sure if I'm confusing that with Howard Allen's healing - anybody?). Miracles? I don't know, but I was unconscious, so I'm not an eyewitness even though it happened to me. I don't care very much whether they were official miracles or not - go figure.
One of the first things I remember after that initial time was people (doctors, parents) hounding me to give them permission to operate. They said that my life depended on it, that they had been waiting for three days for the internal bleeding to stop before they operated, decided that they had to operate anyway even though the bleeding hadn't stopped and I would probably die during the operation because I would die if they didn’t operate, but now the bleeding HAD stopped, and they needed to operate immediately if I had any reasonable chance to live. A miracle? Wait, I'm not done.
I was a stupid Wayfer; I refused to give them permission, said I wouldn't let anyone operate on me except Dr. Wiengardner. My mother - get this, my MOTHER, I don't think I would have let anyone else in this far to my heart at the moment - asked me if there was any way I would give permission for someone to operate on me other than Dr. Wiengardner. I said - loyal Wayfer that I was - that the only way I would do that is if Dr. Wierwille said that I should, and I gave them the HQ phone number that I knew by heart. Quickly, my mom came back with a message from Dr. Wierwille that said that Dr. Wiengardner didn't perform the type of operation that I needed, that I was in the care of the most qualified doctors in the entire world to perform the surgery that I needed (which I found out later was the truth as they sent in specialists from Duke University), and that I should think of the grace of God holding me up more firmly than the bed I was lying on, let them operate, and soon I would awake from the operation - awake, get it? Alive! So I gave permission and awoke alive - a miracle? Dang, this is getting hard - I had a 1-3 % chance of making it, and if I did survive the operation, I was supposed to be a vegetable. You decide if I’m what the doctors referred to as a vegetable. A miracle? Ask a vegetable.
Okay, so we're looking for miracles. Believers ministry–wide were praying 24/7. Locally, there was a young woman - we were all so young – who hadn’t had the class yet, but had been led into tongues, who showed up at the prayer site. She asked the person she was relieving how this thing worked and what was she supposed to do. He told her to speak in tongues and get a picture of myself (and my then wife who was also in the wreck) in mind, and to picture us as whole. And if anything other than wholeness entered her mind to know that God was showing her something and to ask him to heal it.
Okay, okay, the miracle. This young woman stayed there all night, and at one point, she saw my head falling apart, realized I was dying, and asked God to put me back together and save my life, and saw my head come back together.
Meanwhile, I had taken, my percodans and another shot of morphine before supposedly sleeping, but when I realized that I wasn’t going to sleep, I decided that it would be better to speak in tongues and talk to God all night than just lie there in pain. God and I had an honest talk. I knew that my life was hanging in the balance. I didn’t know how everything got all messed up, and I didn’t want to survive just to have something like this happen again. I also didn’t think I had any chance of being anywhere near normal physically or mentally if I did survive, and I didn’t want to live out my days as a freak. But neither did I want to deny the power of God as my last conscious act on this earth only to then look Jesus in the face and be ashamed that my last act was to deny God’s power.
Sooo, I told God that if he would make me whole physically and mentally and teach me how things had gotten so screwed up and how to keep that from happening again, that I would go back and give it my best shot to walk with him again. That’s the deal we made.
Meanwhile, the heads of the marketing dept. showed at the prayer site where the young woman was still praying for us and told her they were going to the hospital to see me. She told them what she had seen, told them not to worry because God had saved my life and told them the words I would say to them when they saw me.
When these two walked into the room, I told them what she said I was going to – something about God’s love. The second in command said that it was the most profound truth he had ever heard me say. Then people were around me explaining that they had to operate right away, the bleeding had stopped…
Years later, I found this woman at the Rock to find out if things happened that night as I remembered them and remembered being told that they had. Our stories matched perfectly. She said that after that night, she had never doubted that perfect prayer was the power of God being released. She remembered telling the two heads of the department what I would tell them, but neither of us remembered specifically what it was.
I think that meets the criteria for a miracle. Someone said somewhere on this thread or the first one that it had to be undeniable or have no other possible explanation. That doesn’t exist. There is ALWAYS some other possible explanation. And your mind ALWAYS can come up with it. But after a while, when you see enough, or like this woman, it is impressive enough, you just stop doubting it.
Why didn’t God just heal me totally, immediately? I don’t know – different reasons. How come when Jesus ministered to the blind man, he saw men as trees and wasn’t totally healed the first time? I remember the limb coordinator coming to visit. I told God I wanted him to just walk in and heal me. When he walked in, he told that he knew I wanted him to just heal me, but that wasn’t the way it was going to happen. He said that every different kind of healing would be involved in my total healing, and that afterward I would be able to minister healing to others in all these ways.
There were many different healings involved in our recuperation. My wife was paralyzed. Her doctors had just finished testing her – you know, sticking needles into her to see if there was any reaction – when her mom & dad first arrived and came in to see her. Her mom went hysterical and said that was no way to live a life. I know that’s really a horrible thing to say, but you have to go easy on her mom – she was a real trip, Nazi concentration camp survivor. She got into a big fight with my folks when she said that we would both be better off dead. Anyway, my wife said right then that there was no way God was going to let her stay paralyzed her whole life and lifted up both her legs right there. Everybody started crying and the doctors tested her again right away – and she was fine. Coincidence? Happens? Sure it happens; it’s called healing. It’s all healing. I gather from the question at the start of this thread that we’re talking about God being in the healing. Well, I think God is in all healing, but I gather also that we’re talking more direct involvement than the body healing itself. She called it before it happened. What else can I say?
The doctors told me that I could expect more healing as time went on, but that at about seven years that would be about it. Nine years later, I was at the Rock of Ages and met a friend from the 70s in the early NY ministry who always had a strong ministry in healing. She told me my face was looking good. I told her that I was glad she liked it because that was as good as it was going to get & told her about what the doctors had said about the seven years. She said okay if that’s what I wanted to limit God to. I laughed nervously knowing that she was right. The next morning I had a bad sore throat and happened to meet this woman on the pathway and asked her to minister to me. It was short and sweet – I don’t remember if she said anything about my throat, but she thanked God for the bones in my face moving further into proper alignment, and I clearly and loudly heard and felt the bones in my face move – some good loud snap crackle and pop action. She simply said, “There, now you have seven more years of healing,” and left.
There were just many forms of healing involved in all this. I needed spiritual healing and got it. Also, at one point – I’ve shared this before in a lot more detail with a lot more passion, but it’s late – there were four people screwing screws into my head at the same time while I was wide awake screaming my heart out to heaven for help from the pain and feeling of helplessness and Jesus Christ appeared with the crown of thorns on and blood pouring down his face and told me that it was okay, that he had gone through everything of what I was going through and come out on the other side. I don’t know if the pain was still there, but the company was more impressive than the pain, and the despair, the loneliness, and the helplessness were replaced by thankfulness and peace.
Healing or psychosis? For those who believe, God bless. For those who don’t, I don’t care to argue about it. For years I didn’t tell anyone, and for more years I told only a few. Maybe it was necessary for those years, but now I’ve been healed of that one too. Now I don’t’ care anymore; the Lord deserves the credit.
Well, I'm happy for your healing. My wife being in the health field and me being just really interested in it I've heard a lot of crazy unexplainable things that have happened to people of different faiths, different persuasions both good and bad things. To children, parents, grandparents and those that have no family at all. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me sometimes. All I can say is I am happy when the good stuff happens. One thing I am sure of is that stuff happens. ;)-->
That was the first time I really had the nerve to post any of that at GS. It is something to hear any of the details about after the accident, because that is where I was pretty much cut out for all these years of knowing what was going on in the hospital. When D*** and I were transported to the hospital I waited and waited in the emergency for them to bring in J** and you and you guys never came. I learned later that they took you to a different hospital which was better equipped to handle your massive injuries. I thought for the longest time that J** had died. Did you know your mom and dad wanted me to go see you very badly. Your dad told me that if you saw me, that might help encourage you, that I was still alive, and they didn't want you to give up. I didn't want you to either, so I went. I have to tell you I was petrified to see you (you didn't have a face) but I went because you guys were my best friends and I love you so!! I doubt you remember, but just wanted you to know that I was there!!
I guess we could make a list of things that transpired that could be accounted as miracles all along the way. Thanks for sharing that and validating that for me.
There are details about what happened after the car wreck to which you are not privy, and I'm not going to go into them here. All I'm saying is you don't know what happened. It is easy to slam TWI for blaming it on people's believing, but that still leaves you not knowing what happened.
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lindyhopper
LMAO Chef.
All of the "healing" I saw, had, or did were in regards to pain, ie. making it go away. I had my wisdon teeth taken out at one time and boy did that smart afterwards. That night the big wig of the ENTIRE STATE echo echo echo(less people than a normal church)was at our fellowship. He asked if I wanted to be prayed for. I said sure. It went away right as he said amen. Later that night it returned. Go figure.
These days I think that many things are in our head, then again many are not. But I think pain inperticular is one we can suppress or increase just by using your mental muscles so to speak. You see it in martial arts. You see it in hypocondriacs. I knew a guy who could say to himself "OK this is the last hick-up" and it would be. I still can't do that one.
Now concerning big things like diabetes, cancer, AIDS, broken legs, lame from their mother's womb...never seen it. I've read a lot of things and heard a lot of things, but I never hear any folow up reports or see any proof.
But I do think the brain is a powerful tool. More people should use it.
;)-->
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Allan
Interesting topic.The 'major' healings we have seen(or been involved in)have really happened AFTER leaving TWI.I posted before about Selinas 8 year old niece being 'raised' out of a coma a 1/2 hour after being prayed over.She had meningococal meningitis(inflamation of the brain.)
Her uncle, the country co-ord.'right hand man' was too 'busy'(scared)at the time to go up to the hospital the whole time.
It was a bit of a standing joke with some of us(while we were still 'in')how the country co-ord. and his wife would rush their kids off to the doctor if they even sniffled,even Selina was amazed how one time when we babysat for them while they were in the States, she had to take their toddler for her immunisation shot and the nurses started joking when Selina walked in with her!!
I believe that these 'turkeys' KNOW that they are so far out of fellowship with God they really have MANY fears.
Oh, and btw, we know of another man came visiting whilst in Auckland (from Fiji) for a brain tumour operation; prayed over, healed,went back to Fiji without the operation and now doing well and living in the good ol U.S.A.
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pjroberge
I AM A LIVING EXAMPLE OF A MIRACLE. I WAS BROUGHT BACK FROM THE DEAD A FEW MONTHS AGO DESPITE TWI PRAYING FOR MY DEATH.
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signals
Let me put it this way...They never healed me! Therefore if there ever were 'healings' I would have to believe that Ernest Angsley(or whatever his name was) had that market cornered.
I remember TWI, from weirwill on down, that you want to get so excited like the book of acts that you can't remember who the last guy you rose from the dead was. Stay tuned on this one because someone claimed they did it.
In my local paper from prweb.com, there was an article yesterday. A man will summon UFO's to earth beginning June 1. For only 45 days-6/1-7/15-Prophet Yahweh, Seer of Yahweh, will call down UFOs and spaceships for the newsmedia to film and photograph. This will occur in Las Vegas, of course. Prophet Yahweh claims to have summoned 1500 UFOs to earth since 1979, with only a few witnesses and close friends. Stay tuned!
Here is where I agree with VP. He's going to really count on that Devil Spirit. Of course it is Las Vegas. Did those other nutzoids ever show their clone baby?
doesn't it feel good to see others fall for a bunch of lies.
For the record, one would have to define healing or give a sense of it. For example, if you are diagnosed with a life threatening disease, curing it would be considered a healing. Let me throw this at you...My doctor gave me a complete physical. In the chest X-ray he found some scarred tissue that raised a red flag. He sent me for a CT Scan. My pastor and church prayed for me, and I tried to believe it wasn't the nasty lung C. I saw my dr. yesterday and he told me the lungs were fine and nothing to worry about at this time. Was it a healing?
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outandabout
I had an experience I remember from a Way Family Camp in 1974.
I had a pain in my abdomen and got ministered to for it.
I still had the pain so I got ministered to again.
I still didn't believe it so I got ministered to a third time. The third person said, "The cause has been removed and what are left are symptoms." In other words, "You're already healed, dummy, so stop getting ministered to."
In the early 70's we used to minister healing a lot and it would go on for several minutes and more often than not it was right on the money. We didn't tell people what the problem was, they just spoke it by word of knowledge or whatever it was.
This happened to me several times.
That was before things all got shot to hell.
I was in a manic/psychotic episode at Corps Week 1982 and no one ministered to me and it never occured to me to ask for it. Then they kicked me out and made me go home.
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coolchef1248 @adelphia.net
wow outofthe fog what a story!thanks for sharing
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krys
I've seen a few....even performed a few. There are stories around here about them.
One was the restoration of the function of a stroke victim's right arm. Then there was healing of shoulder ligaments...that was instantaneous...and also tc's throat at communion. He had had some necessary surgery there, however had trouble talking and lots of pain from incisions. Immediately the incision healeed and pain was gone. I never prayed out loud for him....it was communion, after all,..and I didn't want to embarrass him.
They were happening to those who would accept them and by way of those who continued to believe God wanted them done!
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Oakspear
outofdafog:
Let me see if I got this straight, and really, I mean no disrespect to you, just want to understand what you're saying.
The Driver: "Every bone in his face was crushed...parents came and hired the best plastic surgeon in the country to put his face back together from a picture. That is all they had to go by"
Driver's Wife: "a broken neck and ruptured spleen"
Driver & Wife: "both seriously injured and required extensive hospital care and rehab"
Other Guy: "died from his injuries a day later"
You: "I got some good pain pills from the hospital that night and the next couple days discovered bruises all over my body that I never even knew I had. Up one side and down the other. I had to soak in a hot tub for relief" and "The very first anxiety attack that I suffered was in a car. It was horrible. It grew to agorophobia...triggers my panic attacks...I am currently on medication for that and am still very fearful of driving. I hate the interstate or any highway that is fast. I will find the country route"
I'm sorry, I'm missing the miracle. Okay, I know that you are alive, and didn't sustain any major injuries, but one out of four people in the incident died, one had to have his entire face rebuilt, which was so bad that they needed photos to tell what he looked like; and you still have lingering effects of the accident.
And the guy who died wasn't even the one responsible for the wreck like the driver was, he was just a poor schmoe who wasn't the recipient of a "miracle". Too bad that those TWI b*st*rds claimed that he "wasn't believing, put the blame on the victim...it's always your fault that bad things happen...unless you're a MAN OF GAWD, then you are "tired of the fight", or whatever.
Hey, I'm sorry that that happened to you, sorry that TWI tried to make you all look bad in the aftermath, but where's the miracle?
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Oakspear
By the way...yes, I do believe that the supernatural can and does occur (hey, I can get my skeptic's card taken away for that) and yes, I have been in a car wreck where I thought I was going to die and walked away unscathed.
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dmiller
I NEVER -
I NEVER EVER - - -
I NEVER EVER,EVER - - -
QUESTION HEALING.
God works, despite the outfit that is promoting Him. Can I get an *amen* here?
-->
twi taught the reality -- then refused to stand up and *be counted* when the chips were down -- backing out of all responsibility -- cause they knew they couldn't deliver -- spouting *doctrine*, instead of real deliverance.
I have seen my share of healings also, and some have been done on me. The fact that twi taught that they could be done, doesn't negate the fact that God can accomplish them. I never thought of twi when my particular instances were happening -- I thought of the Father above, who can and does answer -- when asked.
I am walking today, when I should have been *laid low* many years ago, so my emphatic answer is *YES*. While I look in askance at the twi *view of things*, I realize that there is a God in heavan -- who takes time out of His day -- to pay attention to some one like me.
No -- I usually don't question miracles or healing, and yes I have seen some. But that never did stop me from questioning the outfits that claim to believe in such -- and then *skew* things to their advantage.
David
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Keith
I can attest to one in my life. But I would not be surprised if no one believed it since I was alone at the time and "ministered" to myself.
I fell down a small flight of stairs behind myhouse and broke my left leg. I knew it was broken because I could see the bone sticking out through the skin. The pain had overloaded my nerves so the pain did not seem as great as it could have been. I commanded it healed and watched the bone slide back under the skin and the puncture heal.
I have also ministered to my wife for back pain and she has been immediately healed. She has also done the same for me. My son always come to me to healed of headachs, he says they leave as soon I finish.
On the other hand - I've never seen a healing of the common cold.
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Keith
Sorry for the double post, but I thought I should mention that none of these healings happened while I was in TWI and most of what I learned about healing, I learned elsewhere.
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Huebee
Back in '85' my wife slipped on some ice. I brought her to the clinic, and xrays showed a broken ankle bone. Doctor put a splint on her, and told her to stay off her feet and come back in 1 week to have a cast put on. Two days later, when we had communion at fellowship, she felt her bone go back in place. She continue to stay off her feet per doctor's orders. When we went back to clinic, doctor had another xray taken. They then took a second, then a third set of xrays. Our doctor brought us in the office and showed us the 4 sets of xrays. The one taken the week before clearly showed a broken bone. The 3 new ones showed it being healed. Yes, God does heal. I personally seen other healings, but this one has medical evidence.
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Oakspear
Usually the "healings" consist of: I prayed and my cold went away...seven days later.
:P--> Things like that are different from believing or disbelieving someone's account, it's more along the lines of "yeah, so what?"
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dmiller
Huebee - - -
And btw -- Welcome to Greasespot.
:)-->
David
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Oakspear
David, are you following me?
:D-->
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dmiller
And a quick ps here -- Isn't that what communion is for? Remembering that "by his stripes we were healed".
:)-->
David
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Oakspear
well...?
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dmiller
Oak -- no I am not, but I wish you were around to follow (here in Minney-soda), cause I just got back from the household goods aisle in my local grocery store -- and the *heavy revvy* ain't workin' about which detergent to buy!
David
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Tom
Oakspear, I see the one you responded to apparently decided to withdraw her post. Please go easy on her; apparently, she said she is still working things out from that time. It was horrendous. I'd like to thank her for speaking up and send her my love. Hi honey, I miss you.
I was the driver of the car, Oak. There are details about what happened after the car wreck to which you are not privy, and I'm not going to go into them here. All I'm saying is you don't know what happened. It is easy to slam TWI for blaming it on people's believing, but that still leaves you not knowing what happened.
I've been through this particular account of healing before on a thread about miracles - which might be more what we are asking about here rather than healing - or not. But anyway, I'm going to repost here what I did on that thread and then maybe add some things.
There were many different healings involved in our recuperation. My wife was paralyzed. Her doctors had just finished testing her – you know, sticking needles into her to see if there was any reaction – when her mom & dad first arrived and came in to see her. Her mom went hysterical and said that was no way to live a life. I know that’s really a horrible thing to say, but you have to go easy on her mom – she was a real trip, Nazi concentration camp survivor. She got into a big fight with my folks when she said that we would both be better off dead. Anyway, my wife said right then that there was no way God was going to let her stay paralyzed her whole life and lifted up both her legs right there. Everybody started crying and the doctors tested her again right away – and she was fine. Coincidence? Happens? Sure it happens; it’s called healing. It’s all healing. I gather from the question at the start of this thread that we’re talking about God being in the healing. Well, I think God is in all healing, but I gather also that we’re talking more direct involvement than the body healing itself. She called it before it happened. What else can I say?
The doctors told me that I could expect more healing as time went on, but that at about seven years that would be about it. Nine years later, I was at the Rock of Ages and met a friend from the 70s in the early NY ministry who always had a strong ministry in healing. She told me my face was looking good. I told her that I was glad she liked it because that was as good as it was going to get & told her about what the doctors had said about the seven years. She said okay if that’s what I wanted to limit God to. I laughed nervously knowing that she was right. The next morning I had a bad sore throat and happened to meet this woman on the pathway and asked her to minister to me. It was short and sweet – I don’t remember if she said anything about my throat, but she thanked God for the bones in my face moving further into proper alignment, and I clearly and loudly heard and felt the bones in my face move – some good loud snap crackle and pop action. She simply said, “There, now you have seven more years of healing,” and left.
There were just many forms of healing involved in all this. I needed spiritual healing and got it. Also, at one point – I’ve shared this before in a lot more detail with a lot more passion, but it’s late – there were four people screwing screws into my head at the same time while I was wide awake screaming my heart out to heaven for help from the pain and feeling of helplessness and Jesus Christ appeared with the crown of thorns on and blood pouring down his face and told me that it was okay, that he had gone through everything of what I was going through and come out on the other side. I don’t know if the pain was still there, but the company was more impressive than the pain, and the despair, the loneliness, and the helplessness were replaced by thankfulness and peace.
Healing or psychosis? For those who believe, God bless. For those who don’t, I don’t care to argue about it. For years I didn’t tell anyone, and for more years I told only a few. Maybe it was necessary for those years, but now I’ve been healed of that one too. Now I don’t’ care anymore; the Lord deserves the credit.
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lindyhopper
Oak, I am personally kicking you out of the Club! Consider yourself declubbed or unclubbed or something.
:D-->
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lindyhopper
Sorry Tomas didn't see your post there.
Well, I'm happy for your healing. My wife being in the health field and me being just really interested in it I've heard a lot of crazy unexplainable things that have happened to people of different faiths, different persuasions both good and bad things. To children, parents, grandparents and those that have no family at all. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me sometimes. All I can say is I am happy when the good stuff happens. One thing I am sure of is that stuff happens.
;)-->
Cheers.
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outofdafog
Hi Tom
--> I love you too!!
That was the first time I really had the nerve to post any of that at GS. It is something to hear any of the details about after the accident, because that is where I was pretty much cut out for all these years of knowing what was going on in the hospital. When D*** and I were transported to the hospital I waited and waited in the emergency for them to bring in J** and you and you guys never came. I learned later that they took you to a different hospital which was better equipped to handle your massive injuries. I thought for the longest time that J** had died. Did you know your mom and dad wanted me to go see you very badly. Your dad told me that if you saw me, that might help encourage you, that I was still alive, and they didn't want you to give up. I didn't want you to either, so I went. I have to tell you I was petrified to see you (you didn't have a face) but I went because you guys were my best friends and I love you so!! I doubt you remember, but just wanted you to know that I was there!!
I guess we could make a list of things that transpired that could be accounted as miracles all along the way. Thanks for sharing that and validating that for me.
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Oakspear
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