The Way's dirty inner secret in the early '80s! Did Martindale actually destroy it?

[Eagle]

This is not to say I think the classes were good. IMHO I believe most of the doctrine off, now. I am just stating that most others would have enjoyed it better having believed most of PFAL and stayed.

[signals]

quote:

Originally posted by Jim:

quote:

So little time and so much to catch up on. Martindale was given the legacy of TWI, huh? But did he bring it down, or was trouble bubbling on the horizon?

Lets assume that it's 1984 and VPW comes to his senses and sends Loy back to Kansas to be limb leader. Further assume that God grants VPW another 15 years of health. What would happen? I think that all this might buy another 10 years of modest to no growth. Meanwhile the Corps machine keeps stamping out brownshirts and sending them out to take over successful twigs, thus destroying the 'family' that drew many of us into TWI in the first place. On the other hand, if Loy were removed from corps leadership and VPW had done what he knew he ought to, the corps program would have been scaled back both in intensity and volume.

VPW, pretty much an early adapter of technology, would have used the internet as a tool instead of cursing it as LCM did. I think this also would prolong the life of TWI. Loy's cursing of the internet just infuriated those of us who used it daily and inspired the critical websites that sprang up.

VPW would have never canceled ROA. He realised a good tool when he had one and he also recognized the need to keep the rank-and-file generally happy. Remember the year of healing after the year of door-to-door?

So what would we have? I think we would have 25-30 thousand faithful going to twig and ROA, not much growth, but not much attrition either. It's interesting to speculate, but that's all it is.

I disagree about Weirwill and the technology factor. Perhaps he would use it himself but there is noway he'd want 'believers' to use an instrument of the devil otherwise known as information highway. Some were against watching the news, but it wasn't adhered to. But basically if you still adhere to the way weirwill managed things, perhaps some of us were 'test markets' or guinea pigs for the bigger picture.

I think Craig(from your description) used the 'shaking the tree to drop the dead leaves' kinda concept.

[Jim]

I can't agree with you. VPW loved technology. Going all the way back to shortwave broadcasts, old Wollensack tape recorders and black and white video, VPW always wanted the technological edge. Unlike LCM, he was not stupid and would use whatever tool that presented itself. Likewise, he did not hesitate to recruit the best and brightest to run his technology and he, in turn treated them well.

I think that VPW would have organized some sort of official website structure along the lines of the way tree. Local *moderated* forums at the branch level linked to limb and trunk sites. Mind you, no substantial critism of TWI would be allowed, just a "bless you" sort of presence to "share your heart* with others and be a positive witness on the net. This would be enough to give the followers a place to surf and to feel connected. VPW would have loved it and it would have served his purpose well.

[signals]

I couldn't care less if you agree with me or not, Jim. People who spend hours programming others, don't like them to get outside info that might lighten their wallets.

As I said, the doc would have had the best computers and programmers around. He would have used it, but no way would the common believer use it if he had a say, that's why if Craig did it he was following the leaders command.

Again, perhaps my area was a test market, but they would discourage watching the news, and would say to read the bible instead of the paper. Also the internet although not as popular was still around in those days.

All I've got to say is that I thank my God everyday that I got out of that cult and came to true grips with reality. In conclusion, I don't care either way!

[Oakspear]

quote:

Originally posted by signals:

I couldn't care less if you agree with me or not, Jim.

And I couldn't care less that you couldn't care less if Jim agrees with you. :P-->

[oldiesman]

[Jim]

quote:

I couldn't care less if you agree with me or not, Jim.

Really? I'm glad you told me.

[TheInvisibleDan]

Would you guys bet your Betamax machines on this?

[Oakspear]

quote:

Originally posted by oldiesman:

Oldies, are you saying that you don't care that I couldn't care less that signals couldn't care less that Jim doesn't agree with him? Or do you not care that...oh forget it ;)-->

[Out There]

Just for the record,

I absolutely, positively don't care either

[Belle]

Where's nervecurve? I wonder if he cares. He must not since he's just been a hit and run poster. Guess we'll see him again in another 6 months for a couple of days......

[Tom Strange]

what!?!?!? there's no ROA this year???

[alfakat]

damn, I was just ready to give the WOWmobile a tune-up and oil change and I'd be hittin the road at the end of July headin out towards wirewillie road and...hiway 29!

[Steve!]

nerdbucket is a seagull poster - he swoops in screaming, ....s all over everything, then quickly flies away.

[Oakspear]

Alfakat:

You don't give WOWmobiles tune ups...ya just buhlieve Gawd!

[Belle]

:D--> LOL!

[signals]

I dunno about nervie. I hope they didn't think he was annoying me or anything. He put his head into the mouth of the hungry lion...the bitter lion! The green goblin avatar guy summoned him and that was it!

To nervie: you are sorely missed. I've missed your entertaining antics of "I am not associated with TWI, but god bless!' I for one would welcome his return because stupid is what stupid does! Run nervie run! Because no one told you when to run and you missed your starry sky!

[dmiller]

quote:

Originally posted by Oakspear:

Alfakat:

You don't give WOWmobiles tune ups...ya just buhlieve Gawd!

That's right! And if your gas tank is on *empty*, just keep on driving -- you'll make it.

:D-->

[TheSongRemainsTheSame]

quote:

Craig must have really ruled with an iron fist, huh? It's funny how suddenly ex-members and brass are bringing accusations of the going ons at TWI. They never came forward when Weirwille was partaking of their glorious bounty. Werewolf was the one out of control that should have been exposed for the devil he was. His death was fitting for his judgement. About that, He and only He has to answer to the Almighty, and being maggot food brings him closer to the reality he tried to hide.

Signal,

In light of the aforementioned words I quoted from you kinda makes me wonder about a certain Tipp Ohio ex WAYREV

~~~

Just a song of thot

[signals]

-->You lost me.???

[Oakspear]

CFF is headquartered in Tipp City, Ohio.

The leaders are ex-Way reverends.

[shazdancer]

HI signals,

The trouble was, a lot of people did try to stand up against Wierwille, when they found out about the injustices or were propositioned for sexual favors. Many of them were simply kicked out, and the innies were told that those people were to be "left alone," as they were copped out or possessed.

I think of how many people now belong in offshoot groups that want to preserve the "good old days" of Wierwille. So yes, I think that if Wierwille had not died, the organization would have remained a lot stronger. Wierwille was just better at hiding his perversions and placating the people than Martindale was.

That said, I still think TWI would have shrunk, though not as much as it has. The two contributing factors to this would be the Internet, allowing "cop outs" from all over the world to tell their stories without censure; plus the mere fact that we all grew up, and have become less gullible.

And I agree with Jim (not that he cares ;)--> ) that Wierwille would have loved the Internet, his thing was technology: radio, then film, then videotape and television programs, finally a "world class" theatre. He loved this stuff. The betamax v VHS thing was discussed for a long time, as TWI tried to guess which medium would come out on top. Oopsie, no hevvy revvy!

Regards,

Shaz

[ChasUFarley]

LCM brought the ministry down, as far as the outreach aspect goes, in many, many ways, but I think it was VPW's bad judgement of WHO he picked for the next president that was the "trouble brewing".

Although I never heard it myself, I did hear people tell about VPW confronting the clergy and leadership at the installment of LCM as president. I would think that the doubt people had about LCM's leadership ability for the highest level of TWI would have been a nice little "red flag" for VPW. I'm sure there was probably some resentment / jealousy for LCM having the white smoke nod as being the next president. Even to me, who came on the TWI-scene in 1988, LCM wasn't the best man for the job from a 5-senses point of view. Ironcially, the day that LCM was installed as president was probably the day of the highest number of members that TWI ever had. It declined from there - rather from "the Fog Years" or other reasons.

Those who didn't leave because of LCM being installed, were made to leave via other avenues.... Here's some examples that I can think of....

*"who do you stand with" letter in '89.

*mandiatory Galation or Leadership Tapes that everyone was supposed to listen to or be labeled "not standing"

*homo purge

*debit holders purge

*"your house is too messy" purge

*"your children are unruly" purge

*"your wife doesn't submit" purge

*end of the ROA

*end of the University of Life

*end of the WOW program

*"you're hanging on to old wineskins" purge

*you're not partaking in the present truth purge (the blanket reason for m&a'ing anyone for anything)

*you're not passing in your schedule purge (okay... that's not legit, but I bet someone was given the ax for that!)

Throw in making WC full time - making many more WC "Corps Alumni" status for whatever stupid reason that someone could come up with. Then, top it with a horrible re-make of a class by someone with the speaking skills of a blue-a$$ed baboon and the logic of a piece of granite, and volia! A perfect recipe for disaster.

I think what's kept TWI afloat financially was some very wise investments that were made during their hey-day. At least they didn't stuff their matresses with the money. I would have thought the investments were to take care of the families and wives of the trustees - yet, Mrs. W. is in a nursing home, certainly under the umbrella of Medicare, I'm sure. (She seems to be thriving, but I wonder if she's totally aware of it all... fodder for another thread, I suppose.) So, they're keeping their heads above water for now.... Wonder which property they will sell next?

[Belle]

quote:

The trouble was, a lot of people did try to stand up against Wierwille, when they found out about the injustices or were propositioned for sexual favors. Many of them were simply kicked out, and the innies were told that those people were to be "left alone," as they were copped out or possessed.

Shaz, I have also heard from people personally (and read on here) that people just didn't believe it when people said the truth about the horrible things going on. One girl in my area said she had talked to over ten girls who had told her the exact same scenario about how vee pee raped them. She just couldn't believe that he was capable of something like that.

Moneyhands said, at the meeting about lcm stepping down, that he had heard rumblings about it and that people had complained to him and he told them not to bring their murmurings to him but rather asked THEM what they were doing about it! No, Bob, don't try to stop it or "stand in the gap" for people since you're the almighty reverend who signed up to protect the flock! Heaven forbid you should actually pastor anyone. Let them fight the wolves on their own. I can just picture him with his hands to his ears yelling, "LA, LA LA LA - I CAN'T HEAR YOU!!"

Now we know that the Moneyhands, D0ttie, in particular, knew WAY MORE than they admitted and that they didn't do squat to protect the lives they are responsible for. I'd much rather have had to answer to the BOD or a judge instead of God for not protecting His people.

[signals]

Well I'm not an exwayrev, guaranteed. Hate to ask what CFF stands for.

In my final active year in the way, our branch leader was a Way Corp grad, single male, who came with a few hometown believers. His job, it was rumored, was to weed and seed sort of speak. He came with the notion that you either follow the word or there's the door. Of course following the word always revolved around the tithe. So I left, and Weirwill was still at the helm. But they were starting to clean house and removing 'deadbeats' back then.

shaz, I never doubted that VP would have the best technology our money could buy, but I question the fact that He would not want common believers to have it.

The person's name was actually Moneyhands? Who was his cousin Moneybelts?