Jesus (and Paul for that matter) didn't require attendance at any place the went. They didn't require classes and they didn't charge people for learning from them. God didn't write a bunch of "collateral" material to help people read His word.
Another good topic, Belle. Well, I would add to what you said, Paul worked for a living. Honest, hard labor- and he often supported other believers around him. Then, after that, he shared "the bible" without thinking the world owed him a favor.
Uh-huh. Yes it is, and remember -- just about everything twi teaches has always been *out there* and offered by others. After all, it is from *out there* that docvic got all his materials from in the first place. -->
Outandabout -- I was in Italy in 1974, doing missionary work with an outfit called Operation Mobilization. It was our job to pass out tracts, books, etc. ad infinitum -- and if the person we were talking to couldn't afford them, we gave them out for free -- but we were told that if someone *paid* something for what we gave out, they would not ignore it, since they had an investment in the deal.
Now -- Am thinking twi had sort of the same thinking about this, but given the *avarice mentality* evinced by twi over the many years -- I doubt it. They were looking for money, and nothing else.
The requested *donation* was a flat out fee, that was couched in legal *speakese* that got them off the hook for charging a price for the class. When I was in OM -- we did request a donation, but it was NEVER EVER mandatory, the way it was in twi.
Operation Mobilization was interested in seeing folks learn *the Gospel*, regardless of the cost to themselves. Unlike those folks on the farm down there in Ohio, who mandated fees (by whatever name), in order to fill their pocketbooks with our cash.
Sharon, I can see your point to some degree. If these classes were extracurricular then sure. But at least pfal, to them, was basic bible. It was what they were all about.
It never set right with me about being charged nor that the amount would change periodically as the wind blew. When I took the class and questioned being charged for learning to understand the bible I was told something similar to what was said by dmiller "but we were told that if someone *paid* something for what we gave out, they would not ignore it, since they had an investment in the deal." And I was reminded that if I took a class like this at a local college then I would have to pay for it. So I forked up the money.
I know what I'm going to say may upset some, but imo, it is not unreasonable to charge for classes offered by religious orginazations. There are many expenses that go into classes other than the producing them. Of course I also think that exceptions should be made for people who truely can't afford them, and that passing the basket during class is offensive.
Sharon, I understand what your saying but with twi they had no overhead. Most classes were in someones home, the person running the class did not get paid and the refreshments were from grads of the class.
And when they taped the class, wasn't it in the late sixties? Look at how many people took the class and how much they paid with no overhead.
That is a heck of a lot of money that someone got and it wasn't given back to the faithful that is for sure!!!!!!
Interesting enough, is that the early Christians didn't even have the new testament to study. Oh sure, Paul sent letters to certain cities, but were they all put together in book form and called "God's word"?
I believe that it was more about personal relationship with the lord than it was "working the word", as wierwille liked to call it. Twi was totally clueless...It's sorta like the early Christians were driving the car while twi only studied the owners manual. Of course with their "absent Christ" doctrine, they had no lord in which to have a relationship with...thus, instead of knowing him, they read about him...instead of functioning in the body of Christ, with Christ as the head...twi functioned in the "waytree" with wierwille/martinpuke as the head. It was all superficial, it was all wrong, it was all sick.
Why make it so difficult for people to acquire that knowledge?
Belle, I was talking about this topic with my wife yesterday. She's been going off an on to a local church on Sundays and really enjoying it. I started going recently and it has, literally, blessed me. Something I noticed immediately was how easy going and happy everyone that was doing things at the service was.
Example - they have a bookstore. They sell books and muisc CD's, bible, etc. After the service they've got a little side room off the bookstore where they have a CD dupilcator where they can burn 5 CD's at a time. They record the service at their sound board, pop the CD original in and if you wait a few minutes, they sell them - for 3 bucks each. Nice printed labels. Pretty cool.
Everything's pretty cheap but get this - they don't have a register to ring up your purchases. They have a box someone made labelled "The Honesty Box". :)--> There's someone from the church there to help people find stuff but they don't have to mess around with the money. You just put it in the box. I heard a woman Sunday saying "I wanted to get this today, and don't have enough. Can I pay for it next Sunday?" Sure.
This church does quite a bit with 3 weekend services, 1 on Saturday and 2 on Sunday. They have a pretty advanced production set up. Stage, lights hung in the top of the church. 3 large screens for projection. A pretty cool sound system. A sound board and battery of wireless mic's, and other gear. There's a set on the altar/stage for the theme that's being taught on and they have little skit/vignettes each week that members do themselves.
They've got a really good 'band' and singer. Saturday night they do a casual hour or so of music of all kinds before the service. People go and hang out. It's like a night out kind of thing, I guess. The band does the praise and worship part of each service too. Lyrics projected on those screens, all of that.
They serve coffee and donuts before each service. I don't drink coffee and don't need more doughnuts :D--> but it smells so good I had to have a cup. It's cool. The seats in the church have-coffee holders. Little drink holder thingies. You can grab a cup, sit down, sing, pray, hear a great service teaching. And I mean great. This guy who's the pastor takes about 20 minutes and really gets to it. The whole thing lasts an hour, almost to the minute.
Having done set up and music and whatever else for so many years in the Way, I've seen how difficult it can be for people if it's not planned well and if they're pressured to do more than they can really do. But at this church, they've got lots of different people doing all kinds of stuff and-
there's
no
pressure
to be seen or felt.
At all.
It almost made me cry. I'm serious. And these guys have had some hard times along the way. My wife told me last year the church got broken into. Twice. They had all kinds of equipment stolen. Had to start over. Along the way they got a very good security system. ;)--> The pastor's been there for a few years and has built from the ground up. They've got about 800? members I think. They have a lot of things they do for their youth too, the whole range of ages.
My point and what we were talking here about is - you can see the intent and purpose of the pastor in how the whole thing's run. He's not sucking these people dry to "do something". He's got their interests at heart. They all do a very good job, but no one's yelling, no one's sweating it.
He's got it so that the people that support the church can share and contribute, and with some dignity to it. Joy. No big deal, no pretense. No "look at us, our God must be really great" kind of attitude.
I saw trust, respect. Energy, work. Honor, dignity. And some people wear shorts and t-shirts to the services. You gotta love that. I mean, if someone was tight on cash, this church's activities would truly represent a way to connect and enjoy life a little once or twice a week. And if you had some cash, you could share it without wondering or maybe even caring how it was used because you can see the use right in front of you, and you'd want to particpate and enjoy because there's something to actually enjoy.
Socks...Sounds like a really good bunch...I had a similar experience when I attended a small church for awhile. Very honest and caring people...no pretense, no pressure, just good Christian folks.
Being a part of a "truly Christian" church, for me, was very humbling. I realized how very arrogant I had been in my twi days...and yes, I felt ashamed. I was also thankful for a new outlook on Christianity...an outlook that genuinely cares about people and not what I can "get out of them"...
Socks that sounds EXACTLY like the church I've been going to!! After the service they have a "coffee house" and we sit around a round table and have coffee, smoothies and any donuts leftover from before the service. We talk about the sermon, the music or anything else that's on our hearts to share. They've had a lot of questions about my experiences with TWI, so some mornings that's what we talk about and they've helped me overcome much of my egotism, cynicism, distrust and waybrain.
It's so refreshing, healing and comforting to be in a church that operates like that. We did the "40 Days of Purpose" study groups in my church and they provided ALL the materials and t-shirts for free to anyone who signed up. They wanted the whole congregation to participate. There was a very small note in the bulletins saying that if you wanted to contribute to the cost of the program who to give your donations to, but it was not mentioned other than that.
Just about the same intrest here Belle as far as people wanting to know about twi and what it was like. People are intrested in what happens in a cult. I don't think people look at exway people as strange. They more or less want to know how we got suckered in and what it was like inside twi.
As far as the church classes and money go. I would not mind if I had to pay for material if the price is not inflated. If a church is doing well and can afford to pay for material, fantastic. I hope you all have a ton of classes. :)-->
Twi's classes were making twi money. twi said it was for commitment. My butt. It was for the ministry to get rich. No other reason. twi said they were not into "numbers". My butt again. That is one of the big reasons I left. The more and more I learn from you people I can see twi is everything and was everything they said they (twi) were not.
Hey Belle, maybe it is. --> If not, that's great to hear. It's not a rarity! :D-->
Luke 12:13 And one of the company said unto him, Master, speak to my brother, that he divide the inheritance with me. 14 And he said unto him, Man, who made me a judge or a divider over you?
Jesus taught give to Caesar what's his, give to God what's His.
A church - you'd think that would be a great place to learn how to bring balance to life. But it's the hardest place to do it sometimes. When the balance tips toward business, it's a challenge.
Don't mix God and mammon, trust in God and work as best we can at what we do. It's not that hard to at least try to do if a person had the mind to.
If TWI really and truly does want people to learn "the word" and to have the knowledge that God would have them have, then why be so secretive? Why charge so much? Why make it so difficult for people to acquire that knowledge? Why limit their research materials, discussions and questions?
I can't speak for the twi of today, but back in those oldies but goodies days, PFAL was a bargain. Just do the math.
Let's see: you spend $75.00 on PFAL. Take PFAL 10 times (the next 9 times were free.) That's $7.50 per class...
I was told that PFAL was once free but because folks were getting it for free, more than too many didn't show. That got VP outraged, which was why he started charging. Makes sense to me. I'd be ****** too if folks say they'd be there and then they don't show. Wouldn't you? Anyway, I think it was a good thing to charge something for PFAL. ( I disagree with $200 though!)
Cost of "putting the class together" (getting the proper number of marks to make a substantial-enough check for the grifter)
making any signs, paying for the heat and light, providing the chairs, tables, restroom facilities,ANY sundry costs- donated
So for the "bargain" price of $75.00 (I think I paid $85.) or $100. or $200. you get:
A looseleaf binder with some dividers and some pages of the class material
A couple of pamphlets
5 cheaply made, paperback books
The "privilege" of sitting through 33 of the longest hours of your life listening to a tape recorder (and standing and applauding at all appropriate cues)
So WayWorld provided a tape recorder and the tape for use and probably about $5.00 worth of materials (their cost) and everything else went in their pockets.
7 new students X $75. = $525.
- materials and use of tape recorder ( 7 X $5. + $10. for recorder) = $45.
$525 - $45. = $480
Gee, not too bad. Of course there were taxes to pay... oh wait a minute, they didn't do that either.
Gosh, kinda makes me wanna go into the cult business...
Kind of sounds like putting together a classroom for grammar schooling at a hometown church. Donte the classroom, donate the 'teacher', spend $150 per grade level for the curriculum, another $50 for supplies.
Pretty soon you have spent as much as $200 per child [less if the curriculum is used the following year]. Compare that to our local Public Schooling which charges $8500 per child per year. A big difference.
In both cases [TWI and Public schooling] we know where the money is going.
I was told that PFAL was once free but because folks were getting it for free, more than too many didn't show. That got VP outraged, which was why he started charging.
Maybe VP didn't have the right people in those PFAL classes.
If you wanted it, liked it, got something out of it - you'd complete it.
If you absolutely didn't want anymore after a certain point, you could just walk out regardless. "Well, THAT was the biggest waste of time and money". People did that. If you're being held hostage by the money, that just seems like the wrong thing to be setting up, IMO.
If you're mainly being brought back by the fact you paid for it but would rather not be there, you should say so and get your money back. If it's "Geez! I'd rather be home watching the game but I paid for this class so I guess I gotta go tonight...
Whare's that at? Hey, go watch the game. Root for the home team! Yaaaae! Giants!!!
It's good business to get full payment or at least a good down payment on something you're selling if a person says they want to buy it. If what you're selling is bible teaching, that is absolutely the wrong business to be in IMO. Bible no = commodity. Bible = God's Word.
Make no mistake about it, pfal was a huge money maker for the cornfield grifter. I recall when the "books were opened" and the figures became public record...Twi made millions and millions of dollars from running classes...not only pfal, but all the other little ditties that they threw at us...Think of all the other classes that we were required to take (if we wanted to grow spiritually, that is)...Listening to Walter teach "The renewed mind" class, was akin to Chinese water toture...and who could ever forget little Johnny T., explaining to us all, how the hierarchy of twi was the same thing as the body of Christ...and I would be remiss if I didn't give an honorable mention to "Keys to biblical research" by who was it? Rhonda or somebody? My Gawd, that would have been considered a violation of the Geneva Conventions, had we been subjected to it as prisoners of war...and we PAID for every one of these lemons!
Between the ABS money, the classes and the "Advances" that ran in every state...twi amassed a fortune. Even with having to liquidate their campuses and sell off a lot of their assets...even with the huge drop in revenue...the shisters in charge now, can live comfortably for the rest of their miserable lives, off of whats left.
Twi was a "Christian" organization by reference only. In practice, they were a combination of Amway and Ron Pompeil selling vegamatics, with a thin veneer of "Christianity". They scammed and conned...and made a ton of money. Hardly the example we see in the bible, as to how Christian leaders are to conduct themselves.
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WordWolf
"Love of money is the root of all evil."
I read that somewhere.
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Ham
Another good topic, Belle. Well, I would add to what you said, Paul worked for a living. Honest, hard labor- and he often supported other believers around him. Then, after that, he shared "the bible" without thinking the world owed him a favor.
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dmiller
Uh-huh. Yes it is, and remember -- just about everything twi teaches has always been *out there* and offered by others. After all, it is from *out there* that docvic got all his materials from in the first place.
-->
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outandabout
I never understood how the class was "Free" but REQUIRED a "donation" of however much $$$ it cost at the time...
One time a new prospective student questioned that and I had no answer.
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Kevlar2000
For tax purposes, perhaps? So as to retain their non-profit tax status?
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outandabout
Yeah, could be, but it put us in the position of having to defend something that didn't really make sense.
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dmiller
Outandabout -- I was in Italy in 1974, doing missionary work with an outfit called Operation Mobilization. It was our job to pass out tracts, books, etc. ad infinitum -- and if the person we were talking to couldn't afford them, we gave them out for free -- but we were told that if someone *paid* something for what we gave out, they would not ignore it, since they had an investment in the deal.
Now -- Am thinking twi had sort of the same thinking about this, but given the *avarice mentality* evinced by twi over the many years -- I doubt it. They were looking for money, and nothing else.
The requested *donation* was a flat out fee, that was couched in legal *speakese* that got them off the hook for charging a price for the class. When I was in OM -- we did request a donation, but it was NEVER EVER mandatory, the way it was in twi.
Operation Mobilization was interested in seeing folks learn *the Gospel*, regardless of the cost to themselves. Unlike those folks on the farm down there in Ohio, who mandated fees (by whatever name), in order to fill their pocketbooks with our cash.
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gc
Sharon, I can see your point to some degree. If these classes were extracurricular then sure. But at least pfal, to them, was basic bible. It was what they were all about.
It never set right with me about being charged nor that the amount would change periodically as the wind blew. When I took the class and questioned being charged for learning to understand the bible I was told something similar to what was said by dmiller "but we were told that if someone *paid* something for what we gave out, they would not ignore it, since they had an investment in the deal." And I was reminded that if I took a class like this at a local college then I would have to pay for it. So I forked up the money.
gc
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vickles
Sharon, I understand what your saying but with twi they had no overhead. Most classes were in someones home, the person running the class did not get paid and the refreshments were from grads of the class.
And when they taped the class, wasn't it in the late sixties? Look at how many people took the class and how much they paid with no overhead.
That is a heck of a lot of money that someone got and it wasn't given back to the faithful that is for sure!!!!!!
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socks
Jesus actually did pass the basket once Himself - to feed the people He taught.
:)-->
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GrouchoMarxJr
Interesting enough, is that the early Christians didn't even have the new testament to study. Oh sure, Paul sent letters to certain cities, but were they all put together in book form and called "God's word"?
I believe that it was more about personal relationship with the lord than it was "working the word", as wierwille liked to call it. Twi was totally clueless...It's sorta like the early Christians were driving the car while twi only studied the owners manual. Of course with their "absent Christ" doctrine, they had no lord in which to have a relationship with...thus, instead of knowing him, they read about him...instead of functioning in the body of Christ, with Christ as the head...twi functioned in the "waytree" with wierwille/martinpuke as the head. It was all superficial, it was all wrong, it was all sick.
Truly Christian?...I would say not.
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socks
Belle, I was talking about this topic with my wife yesterday. She's been going off an on to a local church on Sundays and really enjoying it. I started going recently and it has, literally, blessed me. Something I noticed immediately was how easy going and happy everyone that was doing things at the service was.
Example - they have a bookstore. They sell books and muisc CD's, bible, etc. After the service they've got a little side room off the bookstore where they have a CD dupilcator where they can burn 5 CD's at a time. They record the service at their sound board, pop the CD original in and if you wait a few minutes, they sell them - for 3 bucks each. Nice printed labels. Pretty cool.
Everything's pretty cheap but get this - they don't have a register to ring up your purchases. They have a box someone made labelled "The Honesty Box".
:)--> There's someone from the church there to help people find stuff but they don't have to mess around with the money. You just put it in the box. I heard a woman Sunday saying "I wanted to get this today, and don't have enough. Can I pay for it next Sunday?" Sure.
This church does quite a bit with 3 weekend services, 1 on Saturday and 2 on Sunday. They have a pretty advanced production set up. Stage, lights hung in the top of the church. 3 large screens for projection. A pretty cool sound system. A sound board and battery of wireless mic's, and other gear. There's a set on the altar/stage for the theme that's being taught on and they have little skit/vignettes each week that members do themselves.
They've got a really good 'band' and singer. Saturday night they do a casual hour or so of music of all kinds before the service. People go and hang out. It's like a night out kind of thing, I guess. The band does the praise and worship part of each service too. Lyrics projected on those screens, all of that.
They serve coffee and donuts before each service. I don't drink coffee and don't need more doughnuts
:D--> but it smells so good I had to have a cup. It's cool. The seats in the church have-coffee holders. Little drink holder thingies. You can grab a cup, sit down, sing, pray, hear a great service teaching. And I mean great. This guy who's the pastor takes about 20 minutes and really gets to it. The whole thing lasts an hour, almost to the minute.
Having done set up and music and whatever else for so many years in the Way, I've seen how difficult it can be for people if it's not planned well and if they're pressured to do more than they can really do. But at this church, they've got lots of different people doing all kinds of stuff and-
there's
no
pressure
to be seen or felt.
At all.
It almost made me cry. I'm serious. And these guys have had some hard times along the way. My wife told me last year the church got broken into. Twice. They had all kinds of equipment stolen. Had to start over. Along the way they got a very good security system.
;)--> The pastor's been there for a few years and has built from the ground up. They've got about 800? members I think. They have a lot of things they do for their youth too, the whole range of ages.
My point and what we were talking here about is - you can see the intent and purpose of the pastor in how the whole thing's run. He's not sucking these people dry to "do something". He's got their interests at heart. They all do a very good job, but no one's yelling, no one's sweating it.
He's got it so that the people that support the church can share and contribute, and with some dignity to it. Joy. No big deal, no pretense. No "look at us, our God must be really great" kind of attitude.
I saw trust, respect. Energy, work. Honor, dignity. And some people wear shorts and t-shirts to the services. You gotta love that.
I mean, if someone was tight on cash, this church's activities would truly represent a way to connect and enjoy life a little once or twice a week. And if you had some cash, you could share it without wondering or maybe even caring how it was used because you can see the use right in front of you, and you'd want to particpate and enjoy because there's something to actually enjoy.
Why, it's downright Christian there .
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GrouchoMarxJr
Socks...Sounds like a really good bunch...I had a similar experience when I attended a small church for awhile. Very honest and caring people...no pretense, no pressure, just good Christian folks.
Being a part of a "truly Christian" church, for me, was very humbling. I realized how very arrogant I had been in my twi days...and yes, I felt ashamed. I was also thankful for a new outlook on Christianity...an outlook that genuinely cares about people and not what I can "get out of them"...
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socks
Likewise, Jr. I know what you mean. It really makes a person stop and think about what's really important in life.
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Belle
Socks that sounds EXACTLY like the church I've been going to!! After the service they have a "coffee house" and we sit around a round table and have coffee, smoothies and any donuts leftover from before the service. We talk about the sermon, the music or anything else that's on our hearts to share. They've had a lot of questions about my experiences with TWI, so some mornings that's what we talk about and they've helped me overcome much of my egotism, cynicism, distrust and waybrain.
It's so refreshing, healing and comforting to be in a church that operates like that. We did the "40 Days of Purpose" study groups in my church and they provided ALL the materials and t-shirts for free to anyone who signed up. They wanted the whole congregation to participate. There was a very small note in the bulletins saying that if you wanted to contribute to the cost of the program who to give your donations to, but it was not mentioned other than that.
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justloafing
Just about the same intrest here Belle as far as people wanting to know about twi and what it was like. People are intrested in what happens in a cult. I don't think people look at exway people as strange. They more or less want to know how we got suckered in and what it was like inside twi.
As far as the church classes and money go. I would not mind if I had to pay for material if the price is not inflated. If a church is doing well and can afford to pay for material, fantastic. I hope you all have a ton of classes.
:)-->
Twi's classes were making twi money. twi said it was for commitment. My butt. It was for the ministry to get rich. No other reason. twi said they were not into "numbers". My butt again. That is one of the big reasons I left. The more and more I learn from you people I can see twi is everything and was everything they said they (twi) were not.
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socks
Hey Belle, maybe it is.
--> If not, that's great to hear. It's not a rarity! 
:D-->
Luke 12:13 And one of the company said unto him, Master, speak to my brother, that he divide the inheritance with me. 14 And he said unto him, Man, who made me a judge or a divider over you?
Jesus taught give to Caesar what's his, give to God what's His.
A church - you'd think that would be a great place to learn how to bring balance to life. But it's the hardest place to do it sometimes. When the balance tips toward business, it's a challenge.
Don't mix God and mammon, trust in God and work as best we can at what we do. It's not that hard to at least try to do if a person had the mind to.
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Trefor Heywood
TWI doesn't want to give in order to receive it just wants to receive!
:D-->
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oldiesman
I can't speak for the twi of today, but back in those oldies but goodies days, PFAL was a bargain. Just do the math.
Let's see: you spend $75.00 on PFAL. Take PFAL 10 times (the next 9 times were free.) That's $7.50 per class...
I was told that PFAL was once free but because folks were getting it for free, more than too many didn't show. That got VP outraged, which was why he started charging. Makes sense to me. I'd be ****** too if folks say they'd be there and then they don't show. Wouldn't you? Anyway, I think it was a good thing to charge something for PFAL. ( I disagree with $200 though!)
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George Aar
O.K.
Let's do the math!
Cost of the "classroom" - donated
Cost of the "staff" - donated
Cost of the "refreshments"- donated
Cost of "putting the class together" (getting the proper number of marks to make a substantial-enough check for the grifter)
making any signs, paying for the heat and light, providing the chairs, tables, restroom facilities,ANY sundry costs- donated
So for the "bargain" price of $75.00 (I think I paid $85.) or $100. or $200. you get:
A looseleaf binder with some dividers and some pages of the class material
A couple of pamphlets
5 cheaply made, paperback books
The "privilege" of sitting through 33 of the longest hours of your life listening to a tape recorder (and standing and applauding at all appropriate cues)
So WayWorld provided a tape recorder and the tape for use and probably about $5.00 worth of materials (their cost) and everything else went in their pockets.
7 new students X $75. = $525.
- materials and use of tape recorder ( 7 X $5. + $10. for recorder) = $45.
$525 - $45. = $480
Gee, not too bad. Of course there were taxes to pay... oh wait a minute, they didn't do that either.
Gosh, kinda makes me wanna go into the cult business...
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Steve!
I can see om's point about how the money helped you be committed.
If you hadn't had to fork over any cash, would you have stuck around through all 12 sessions?
See, cuz the REAL money wasn't in the piffle class - it was in the weekly "abundant" "sharing" and "love offerings".
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Galen
George Aar:
"Let's do the math!
Cost of the "classroom" - donated
Cost of the "staff" - donated
Cost of the "refreshments"- donated"
Kind of sounds like putting together a classroom for grammar schooling at a hometown church. Donte the classroom, donate the 'teacher', spend $150 per grade level for the curriculum, another $50 for supplies.
Pretty soon you have spent as much as $200 per child [less if the curriculum is used the following year]. Compare that to our local Public Schooling which charges $8500 per child per year. A big difference.
In both cases [TWI and Public schooling] we know where the money is going.
:-)
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socks
Maybe VP didn't have the right people in those PFAL classes.
If you wanted it, liked it, got something out of it - you'd complete it.
If you absolutely didn't want anymore after a certain point, you could just walk out regardless. "Well, THAT was the biggest waste of time and money". People did that. If you're being held hostage by the money, that just seems like the wrong thing to be setting up, IMO.
If you're mainly being brought back by the fact you paid for it but would rather not be there, you should say so and get your money back. If it's "Geez! I'd rather be home watching the game but I paid for this class so I guess I gotta go tonight...
Whare's that at? Hey, go watch the game. Root for the home team! Yaaaae! Giants!!!
It's good business to get full payment or at least a good down payment on something you're selling if a person says they want to buy it. If what you're selling is bible teaching, that is absolutely the wrong business to be in IMO. Bible no = commodity. Bible = God's Word.
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GrouchoMarxJr
Make no mistake about it, pfal was a huge money maker for the cornfield grifter. I recall when the "books were opened" and the figures became public record...Twi made millions and millions of dollars from running classes...not only pfal, but all the other little ditties that they threw at us...Think of all the other classes that we were required to take (if we wanted to grow spiritually, that is)...Listening to Walter teach "The renewed mind" class, was akin to Chinese water toture...and who could ever forget little Johnny T., explaining to us all, how the hierarchy of twi was the same thing as the body of Christ...and I would be remiss if I didn't give an honorable mention to "Keys to biblical research" by who was it? Rhonda or somebody? My Gawd, that would have been considered a violation of the Geneva Conventions, had we been subjected to it as prisoners of war...and we PAID for every one of these lemons!
Between the ABS money, the classes and the "Advances" that ran in every state...twi amassed a fortune. Even with having to liquidate their campuses and sell off a lot of their assets...even with the huge drop in revenue...the shisters in charge now, can live comfortably for the rest of their miserable lives, off of whats left.
Twi was a "Christian" organization by reference only. In practice, they were a combination of Amway and Ron Pompeil selling vegamatics, with a thin veneer of "Christianity". They scammed and conned...and made a ton of money. Hardly the example we see in the bible, as to how Christian leaders are to conduct themselves.
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