How did LCM come up with such a mouth. Even in my most pubescent state I couild never come up with ways of spouting off like he did. He had the harshest mouth I have ever heard. One of my boys likes Rap music and even the rappers would bow down to the mouthing of LCM.
Imagine how disgusting his mind has to be to even be able to think of saying something like that
Yes it is. That was just one of the many indications that Craig had disqualified himself as a minister. I remember one of the craziest statements he made around that time was encouraging people to act on "genuine spiritual suspicion." What the he!! is that?
If you're walking by the spirit you don't need "suspicion". You get revelation from God. If you receive revelation, you don't suspect something you KNOW it. But knowing someone has a spiritual problem doesn't mean you automatically publicize it and attack the person. You shouldn't even automatically cast out the spirit, because the person may not be ready to close his mind to that spirit and then they'll end up in a Matthew 12:45 situation. But I digress
Craig had already lost it when he went on these tirades. Although I don't condone homosexuality, I certainly don't condone this kind of hate-mongering and carnality.
And G-d saw all that He had made, and found it very good." (Bere**** 1:31).
What God made, was Adam and Eve. Hetersexuality, don't ya hnow. If God had put two guys in the garden and then said it was all very good, we would be having a very different discussion
what was that stuff about medication and the demons having nothing to work with ?
I was talking rebutting Garth's assertion that all mental or psychological disorders are entirely natural in origin. I said that, just because you can medicate a schizophrenic and moderate their behavior doesn't mean spirits are not involved. It's not an either-or situation. The connections and relationships between the physical and the spiritual are such that if you can alter the physical aspect of a mental illness, you can disrupt what the spirit is working on.
Bull.... G-d loves us all. Now I remember why I chose Judaism. It is that self-righteous smug attitude, that turns people away from G-d and his love. Congradulations...
(see good thing i told u to hold on to apology)
Sharon do us all a favor and learn to have a linear conversation. You keep repeating a statement that NO ONE is arguing. I never said God doesn't love homosexuals. God loves everyone because God is love. What I did is point out the illogic of your statement. You, who have been arguing that homosexuality is not sinful, quoted Genesis 1:31
quote:
And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
All I did was remind you that the context of that verse is God putting Adam and Eve in the garden. Basically, you quoted a verse that supports my point of view.
So, in a mature and well-thought out reply, you revert to your mindless chant about love--an argument you are having not with me, but with yourself--and then add a childish and obnoxious graphic. The logic and eloquence of your arguments are absolutely withering.
First, your right the graphic and language where not necessary, and disrespectful, I have edited accordingly.
you say-
"You, who have been arguing that homosexuality is not sinful, quoted Genesis 1:31"
I'm confused at what point did I quote Genesis? I quoted Bere**** 1:31, different book, I would never presume to change your source don't change mine. The Torah is not just the first 5 books of the bible. Please do not pressume to change it.
I am sorry that you felt my contribution to the conversation wasn't up to your standards.
you say-
Sharon do us all a favor and learn to have a linear conversation.
Simply because you phrase your words, politely you seriously cannot expect that to be percieved as anything but rude.
I have not once commented on my personal or my religious beliefs on the subject, I was just facinated by your hard nose attitude.
you say-
a LOT of things I would not "accept" from one of my children and announcing that he or she is in love with someone of the same gender is just one of them.
Remember I asked Galen the same question his response (he also disagrees wiith homosexuality)
Galen says:
Would I prefer that he get a good education, a solid career, and most of all a smart capable wife? Certainly.
But no matter what our children do in their lives, we will still love them.
If I was looking for parental guidance I sure would prfer Galen's to yours.
I was under the misconeption that the forums where for open discussion that would allow for sharing and learning, not a place to have someone attempt to shame them.
you say-
The logic and eloquence of your arguments are absolutely withering.
I was not arguing at any point I just wanted an answer to a question.
An argument as defined by Websters is:
a reason given in proof or rebuttal b : discourse intended to persuade
At what point did I do either of those things, the only thing that I did was to ask you a question, that if you did not want to answer you could have either, told me you weren't going to answer, or ignmore me.
Instead you feel the need to be self-righteous, I wonder why?
I bet is I'd brought cookies to your Pfal class you'd thrown me out as well.
Thanks guys, for the kind words and encouragement. :)-->
I must say, I've had a very stressful week at work. My boss, who happens to be gay, came to my rescue more than once, in just the past couple of days. He is a fabulous boss, a wise manager, an awesome designer, who is very generous with his time and talent. My feeling is that I'm a better human, and definitely a better designer for knowing and working with him.
I just can't buy into the judgmental, cut yourself off from those who make different choices than I would, mindset. People are complicated, and I can't justify prejudice because of someone's "sexual orientation." I don't want to raise my kids that way either.
According to my posts, if you read them, I don't think you'd have a big problem with how I have related to folks of the gay persuasion. Sounds like you and I are on close to the same page.
I just have a hard time with telling my kids that gay is completely "OK", because I have Biblical beliefs that are contrary to "gay is ok"...
So, I tell 'em to love 'em, even though they live a life contrary to God's clearly documented commandments...
You gotta make up your mind some time when it comes to doctrine...
Johnny my friend. I do have my mind made up when it comes to doctrine. And I also have my mind made up when it comes to practical living.
It's teaching my kids how to reconcile the two things that perplexes me, and them.
Yeah, we are on the same page, I think? I guess I just figure that there are some things I don't have totally figured out, and if I don't figure on having them figured out, then I stay humble. And in the end, things will figure themselves out. and if I've figured wrong, then the supreme figurer outer will figure it all out in the end. :D-->
Well then, it sounds as if we are on the same page. The fact is, it ain't easy I guess, when it comes to raising our kids. And hey, thanks for calling me your friend.
I have an eighteen year old who is way out of line on the "hetero-sexual" thing, in that he certainly loves the girls...Oy vey!
Hey, I think I'm bowing out about now....I have to go to a birthday party, booze and all!
"... Remember I asked Galen the same question his response (he also disagrees wiith homosexuality)"
True.
"Galen says:
Would I prefer that he get a good education, a solid career, and most of all a smart capable wife ..."
Isn't that what we all would prefer for our sons?
"But no matter what our children do in their lives, we will still love them."
I dont know, I have seen young folks do some really bad stuff, while I dont think Homosexuality is G-d's Will for our lives, I also just dont think that it compares to the really bad stuff that a kid could have gotten into either. And besides my sons are still my sons.
:-)
"If I was looking for parental guidance I sure would prfer Galen's to yours."
Thanks :-)
"... I bet is I'd brought cookies to your Pfal class you'd thrown me out as well."
You can come and enjoy PFAL in my home anytime that we are running a class, you would be welcome.
"I have an eighteen year old who is way out of line on the "hetero-sexual" thing, in that he certainly loves the girls...Oy vey!"
I hear you.
Both of our sons have had to 'endure' as girls drool all over them.
In Italy, Bonnie got upset when two of the girls that worked for me were hitting on our eldest son. The girls wanted to take him to a Beach resort for a weekend. I was all for it, but Bonnie was totally against it. The beaches along the Italian Riviera are really nice.
Now our second son is in high-school, and girls call him all afternoon and evening long.
the oldest being just 10, but the girls are already calling hime..scares the .... outa me,
I actually called one of the girls mothers and asked her to control her daughter (phone was ringing at 9:30 at night!! son has 8:30 bedtime)
the mother of this young lady, laughed off my concerns, wonder if she'll be laughing when her daughter comes home pregnant?
Sexuality is hard on all parents, teaching them self respect and discipline, is dificult at best, when faced with the daunting task of being so "diffferent" from the other parents makes it so much more daunting of a task.
Every day I have to remind my children, that I am not Tommy or Susies mother, I am their mother and I do my best to raise them with love and compassion, for ALL people. I do that, because it is my humble, non-linear and childess opion that, this is how G-d, would want me to be.
Trefor,
How about Adam and Shumel, (I actually called my rabbi, as my Hebrew is not the best, but there is NO translation for Steve in the Hebrew language).
If you walk in love on a daily a basis your children will learn love and then they will walk in love as well. Simplistic yes, childish perhaps, but G-dly absolutly.
truth and spirt has a great deal to say about the gay agenda in public schools , they are on the public school board and speak to teens on this issue.
if you go to the ces link above then truth or tradition web site, and put in SEX as a search topic you will find what Mark and Karens experience has been working with the youth on this topic.
the name of the article is "Sex and Scripture and the Gay agenda" John S has written a book as titled "sex and Scripture as well.
That looks like a pretty interesting sight mj...I also thought the article about the studies was interesting, I can't believe all the topics they have on there.
As far as the gay agenda I can understand how some people feel that it is being shoved in their faces and forced down their throat. I am going to take a guess that that is what makes alot of folks uncomfortable. Then there is the "religious right" who feel the need to make it their life's work to rid the world of homosexuals".........both sides are extreme to me. That is just my truth, I cannot tell anyone else what their's is......
As far as the vulgar tantrum by LCM......I don't want anyone to think I am comparing anyone on this board to that....I was just showing extremes that both sides can go to. I always heard that "the truth" was always somewhere in the middle.........
"I have 3 sons, and they are babies the oldest being just 10, but the girls are already calling hime..scares the .... outa me, I actually called one of the girls mothers and asked her to control her daughter (phone was ringing at 9:30 at night!! son has 8:30 bedtime)
the mother of this young lady, laughed off my concerns, wonder if she'll be laughing when her daughter comes home pregnant?"
We once had boys calling our foster-daughter [samantha was 11 at the time], one boy called while we were out and he left three messages on our phone.
I was totally set-back by what he had to say to her. This boy was also a 11year old. I transferred the messages onto a cassette and We called the boy's parents and played back the recordings for them. This is what got their attention. He was talking about how they had been having sex, and how she was not any good at it, and how he was dumping her for another girl because she gave better head.
At the time, we were ready to call the police and make a complaint against the boy, but his parents did not blow it off. They attempted to at first, but as they listened to their own 'little' boy's voice describe various sex acts, it got through to them that something was amiss.
We got written letters of apology, as did Samantha.
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excathedra
what was that stuff about medication and the demons having nothing to work with ?
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Out There
How did LCM come up with such a mouth. Even in my most pubescent state I couild never come up with ways of spouting off like he did. He had the harshest mouth I have ever heard. One of my boys likes Rap music and even the rappers would bow down to the mouthing of LCM.
Imagine how disgusting his mind has to be to even be able to think of saying something like that
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Jbarrax
Yes it is. That was just one of the many indications that Craig had disqualified himself as a minister. I remember one of the craziest statements he made around that time was encouraging people to act on "genuine spiritual suspicion." What the he!! is that?
If you're walking by the spirit you don't need "suspicion". You get revelation from God. If you receive revelation, you don't suspect something you KNOW it. But knowing someone has a spiritual problem doesn't mean you automatically publicize it and attack the person. You shouldn't even automatically cast out the spirit, because the person may not be ready to close his mind to that spirit and then they'll end up in a Matthew 12:45 situation. But I digress
Craig had already lost it when he went on these tirades. Although I don't condone homosexuality, I certainly don't condone this kind of hate-mongering and carnality.
Peace
JerryB
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Jbarrax
What God made, was Adam and Eve. Hetersexuality, don't ya hnow. If God had put two guys in the garden and then said it was all very good, we would be having a very different discussion
Peace
JerryB
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J0nny Ling0
Yeah Jerry, imagine that:
Hey all of you flaming hetero-sexuals! What the h*ll's a matter with you?! A Male and a female having sex?! How twisted! How disgusting! Gross!
God didn't create Adam and Eve, He created Adam and Steve!
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Jbarrax
I was talking rebutting Garth's assertion that all mental or psychological disorders are entirely natural in origin. I said that, just because you can medicate a schizophrenic and moderate their behavior doesn't mean spirits are not involved. It's not an either-or situation. The connections and relationships between the physical and the spiritual are such that if you can alter the physical aspect of a mental illness, you can disrupt what the spirit is working on.
Peace
JerryB
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J0nny Ling0
Nobody ever said that God does NOT love us all (except for LCM). He does love us all. He just knows what is best for us as His children...
I certainly love my children when they go astray, and I "rope 'em in" if I can, because I love 'em...
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Jbarrax
Sharon do us all a favor and learn to have a linear conversation. You keep repeating a statement that NO ONE is arguing. I never said God doesn't love homosexuals. God loves everyone because God is love. What I did is point out the illogic of your statement. You, who have been arguing that homosexuality is not sinful, quoted Genesis 1:31
All I did was remind you that the context of that verse is God putting Adam and Eve in the garden. Basically, you quoted a verse that supports my point of view.
So, in a mature and well-thought out reply, you revert to your mindless chant about love--an argument you are having not with me, but with yourself--and then add a childish and obnoxious graphic. The logic and eloquence of your arguments are absolutely withering.
JerryB
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sharon
Jerry,
First, your right the graphic and language where not necessary, and disrespectful, I have edited accordingly.
you say-
"You, who have been arguing that homosexuality is not sinful, quoted Genesis 1:31"
I'm confused at what point did I quote Genesis? I quoted Bere**** 1:31, different book, I would never presume to change your source don't change mine. The Torah is not just the first 5 books of the bible. Please do not pressume to change it.
I am sorry that you felt my contribution to the conversation wasn't up to your standards.
you say-
Sharon do us all a favor and learn to have a linear conversation.
Simply because you phrase your words, politely you seriously cannot expect that to be percieved as anything but rude.
I have not once commented on my personal or my religious beliefs on the subject, I was just facinated by your hard nose attitude.
you say-
a LOT of things I would not "accept" from one of my children and announcing that he or she is in love with someone of the same gender is just one of them.
Remember I asked Galen the same question his response (he also disagrees wiith homosexuality)
Galen says:
Would I prefer that he get a good education, a solid career, and most of all a smart capable wife? Certainly.
But no matter what our children do in their lives, we will still love them.
If I was looking for parental guidance I sure would prfer Galen's to yours.
I was under the misconeption that the forums where for open discussion that would allow for sharing and learning, not a place to have someone attempt to shame them.
you say-
The logic and eloquence of your arguments are absolutely withering.
I was not arguing at any point I just wanted an answer to a question.
An argument as defined by Websters is:
a reason given in proof or rebuttal b : discourse intended to persuade
At what point did I do either of those things, the only thing that I did was to ask you a question, that if you did not want to answer you could have either, told me you weren't going to answer, or ignmore me.
Instead you feel the need to be self-righteous, I wonder why?
I bet is I'd brought cookies to your Pfal class you'd thrown me out as well.
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sharon
For the record I am very happily married to a man, and enjoy a wonderful life with with him.
Did I once disagee with the statement G-d created Adam and Eve? Wait, did I ever once say that I approve or disapprove of homosexuality?
My question was never about my attitudes toward homosexuality, my question was about a parents love.
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ex10
Thanks guys, for the kind words and encouragement.
:)-->
I must say, I've had a very stressful week at work. My boss, who happens to be gay, came to my rescue more than once, in just the past couple of days. He is a fabulous boss, a wise manager, an awesome designer, who is very generous with his time and talent. My feeling is that I'm a better human, and definitely a better designer for knowing and working with him.
I just can't buy into the judgmental, cut yourself off from those who make different choices than I would, mindset. People are complicated, and I can't justify prejudice because of someone's "sexual orientation." I don't want to raise my kids that way either.
sigh......
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J0nny Ling0
Sharon, that last post was directed to JBarrax, not you...
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J0nny Ling0
EX10
According to my posts, if you read them, I don't think you'd have a big problem with how I have related to folks of the gay persuasion. Sounds like you and I are on close to the same page.
I just have a hard time with telling my kids that gay is completely "OK", because I have Biblical beliefs that are contrary to "gay is ok"...
So, I tell 'em to love 'em, even though they live a life contrary to God's clearly documented commandments...
You gotta make up your mind some time when it comes to doctrine...
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sharon
Thank you Jonny Lingo,
I needed that..
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ex10
Johnny my friend. I do have my mind made up when it comes to doctrine. And I also have my mind made up when it comes to practical living.
It's teaching my kids how to reconcile the two things that perplexes me, and them.
Yeah, we are on the same page, I think? I guess I just figure that there are some things I don't have totally figured out, and if I don't figure on having them figured out, then I stay humble. And in the end, things will figure themselves out. and if I've figured wrong, then the supreme figurer outer will figure it all out in the end.
:D-->
By the way, I do read your posts.
-->
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J0nny Ling0
Well then, it sounds as if we are on the same page. The fact is, it ain't easy I guess, when it comes to raising our kids. And hey, thanks for calling me your friend.
I have an eighteen year old who is way out of line on the "hetero-sexual" thing, in that he certainly loves the girls...Oy vey!
Hey, I think I'm bowing out about now....I have to go to a birthday party, booze and all!
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Galen
sharon:
"... Remember I asked Galen the same question his response (he also disagrees wiith homosexuality)"
True.
"Galen says:
Would I prefer that he get a good education, a solid career, and most of all a smart capable wife ..."
Isn't that what we all would prefer for our sons?
"But no matter what our children do in their lives, we will still love them."
I dont know, I have seen young folks do some really bad stuff, while I dont think Homosexuality is G-d's Will for our lives, I also just dont think that it compares to the really bad stuff that a kid could have gotten into either. And besides my sons are still my sons.
:-)
"If I was looking for parental guidance I sure would prfer Galen's to yours."
Thanks :-)
"... I bet is I'd brought cookies to your Pfal class you'd thrown me out as well."
You can come and enjoy PFAL in my home anytime that we are running a class, you would be welcome.
[Not right now, we are running CF&S, sorry].
:-)
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Galen
Jonny Lingo:
"I have an eighteen year old who is way out of line on the "hetero-sexual" thing, in that he certainly loves the girls...Oy vey!"
I hear you.
Both of our sons have had to 'endure' as girls drool all over them.
In Italy, Bonnie got upset when two of the girls that worked for me were hitting on our eldest son. The girls wanted to take him to a Beach resort for a weekend. I was all for it, but Bonnie was totally against it. The beaches along the Italian Riviera are really nice.
Now our second son is in high-school, and girls call him all afternoon and evening long.
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Trefor Heywood
God would never have named any such person Steve - it's not a Hebrew name!
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sharon
Jonny & Galen
I have 3 sons, and they are babies
the oldest being just 10, but the girls are already calling hime..scares the .... outa me,
I actually called one of the girls mothers and asked her to control her daughter (phone was ringing at 9:30 at night!! son has 8:30 bedtime)
the mother of this young lady, laughed off my concerns, wonder if she'll be laughing when her daughter comes home pregnant?
Sexuality is hard on all parents, teaching them self respect and discipline, is dificult at best, when faced with the daunting task of being so "diffferent" from the other parents makes it so much more daunting of a task.
Every day I have to remind my children, that I am not Tommy or Susies mother, I am their mother and I do my best to raise them with love and compassion, for ALL people. I do that, because it is my humble, non-linear and childess opion that, this is how G-d, would want me to be.
Trefor,
How about Adam and Shumel, (I actually called my rabbi, as my Hebrew is not the best, but there is NO translation for Steve in the Hebrew language).
If you walk in love on a daily a basis your children will learn love and then they will walk in love as well. Simplistic yes, childish perhaps, but G-dly absolutly.
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mj412
truth and spirt has a great deal to say about the gay agenda in public schools , they are on the public school board and speak to teens on this issue.
if you go to the ces link above then truth or tradition web site, and put in SEX as a search topic you will find what Mark and Karens experience has been working with the youth on this topic.
the name of the article is "Sex and Scripture and the Gay agenda" John S has written a book as titled "sex and Scripture as well.
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outofdafog
That looks like a pretty interesting sight mj...I also thought the article about the studies was interesting, I can't believe all the topics they have on there.
As far as the gay agenda I can understand how some people feel that it is being shoved in their faces and forced down their throat. I am going to take a guess that that is what makes alot of folks uncomfortable. Then there is the "religious right" who feel the need to make it their life's work to rid the world of homosexuals".........both sides are extreme to me. That is just my truth, I cannot tell anyone else what their's is......
As far as the vulgar tantrum by LCM......I don't want anyone to think I am comparing anyone on this board to that....I was just showing extremes that both sides can go to. I always heard that "the truth" was always somewhere in the middle.........
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Galen
sharon:
"I have 3 sons, and they are babies the oldest being just 10, but the girls are already calling hime..scares the .... outa me, I actually called one of the girls mothers and asked her to control her daughter (phone was ringing at 9:30 at night!! son has 8:30 bedtime)
the mother of this young lady, laughed off my concerns, wonder if she'll be laughing when her daughter comes home pregnant?"
We once had boys calling our foster-daughter [samantha was 11 at the time], one boy called while we were out and he left three messages on our phone.
I was totally set-back by what he had to say to her. This boy was also a 11year old. I transferred the messages onto a cassette and We called the boy's parents and played back the recordings for them. This is what got their attention. He was talking about how they had been having sex, and how she was not any good at it, and how he was dumping her for another girl because she gave better head.
At the time, we were ready to call the police and make a complaint against the boy, but his parents did not blow it off. They attempted to at first, but as they listened to their own 'little' boy's voice describe various sex acts, it got through to them that something was amiss.
We got written letters of apology, as did Samantha.
:-)
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J0nny Ling0
Eleven?!
Wow. I am not doubting you. Wow..
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