I look at my life as a father to my kids and think of what I want for them. Would I beat the hell out of them? No. I want the best for them even though they don't see it as clearly as I do.
Speaking as a parent of multiple children.... I gotta say that though I am constantly assured of their love for me........ what I REALLY would enjoy is if they`d get along with each other better.....I grow annoyed with the incesant bickering....and rather than care who is *right* I`d much rather see them be considerate and kind of one another other.
I have to wonder if thats what God had in mind when Jesus spoke of the two *new* commandments.
lol...yeah-i only have 2 how many you have rascal?
Sometimes what they argue about is just them growing. If i have a simple solution i'll tell em and end the thing quickly. And deeper solutions i can come up with sometimes. Sometimes i just let em go and they figure it out for themselves. They never get violent just argue.
Brace yourself cm.... I have SEVEN children....lol.
Is it any wonder that I value peace?
I just wonder if God sighs with exasperation over our bickering over doctrinal/denominational matters.. almost like kids arguing over who Daddy loves best....
I gotta say that when one of the kiddoes puts aside the argument and instead if trying to change their sybling.... deciding to just apreciate and love them.....I am always gratefull for the greater maturity shown rather than the kid wearing their sybling out to prove themselves right....
I've had to tell them to just drop the subject though at times. Sometimes they both just hold to their own opinions and don't let the other one bother em about their different opinion.
yeah a lot like us who are all grown up now, or are we...lol
I have told them of what would happen if they do not change though. Just by my limited experiences in life. If I use enough logic and common sense with love they do see it.
have you ever told your children they are going to be tormented in hell forever if they do not obey you?
While I have had loving parents I have seen enough to know that "father" does not equal "love".
People have different ideas of what love is and what a father is. If the Bible is to define it's own terms and there are thousands of different christian groups all claiming differnt "Biblical" ideals, that puts us in a bit of a pickel.
From my perspective the God of the Bible is not always the greatest dad in the world. That may just be my perspective. Maybe that is what it is all about. God isn't really love. That is condesencio (never spell that right). Love is a human concept and its meaning is as varied as we humans are. Maybe, if there is a God, that is what we need to learn.
In it's most basic form love is respect, IMO. Respect someone else's opinions, choices, the way they live their life, treating them the way you would like to be treated.
In the twi, love was obedience. I only have one kid, and of course I want him to do what I tell him to. I want him to do it the first time. It is a rare day in which that happens. Of course when our kids don't obey, we still love them, but more importantly for this discussion, they still love us. Love does not equal obedience!
Now if I had never seen or heard anything of my father except for what other people had told me about him, I may respct him. Then again, maybe I wouldn't.
It's interesting to note that love is used more in the new testament then the old.
So much has been given to us in the new testament that love has to be the balance to it all. Otherwise we would fall prey to many other things that are mentioned in the new testament.
Lindy I believe you will see love even bigger then you do now one day. I see what you are saying though.
"Of course when our kids don't obey, we still love them, but more importantly for this discussion, they still love us. Love does not equal obedience!"
Amen, man. Even while we were yet sinners Jesus died for us. God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son. Love is the factor, the motivation here. God loved us first. Still does.
I believe God is the perfect father and he chastises, disciplines, punishes those he loves. It's in Hebrews.
That said, God is slow to anger, abounding in love and is ready to embrace us. However, he has stated on several times that he hates sin. When we fall, we have to confess our sin to him — and others we are accountable to.
It is often those times when perceive a drop in the father's love (blessings) that we are cooled in our affections toward him and start to walk away.
We are to live for God and His glory, not the other way around.
My youngest son was supposed to be at a neighbors house playing and it was past the time that we told him to be home. So i went to get him. He wasn't there.
So I came back home and got my oldest son and went looking for him. Cuz my oldest might know where he would be. Still couldn't find him after an hour and it was getting dark.
My wife was really upset now. Sitting on the front porch. Crying a lot. "Where's my baby!" Was the only words she could get out. We got back in the car and went looking again. And we had the cell phone with us so she could call if he showed up. I was near calling the police.
Well...she called. Could hardly understand her she was crying so much. He had come home riding his bike from another neighbors house 2 doors down. I could even hear my youngest crying in the background.
I got home and they were both still crying. My youngest said he wanted to be grounded for life! Still crying.
We said no. You have to hug us twice as much now. And remember to tell us when you are going to someone elses house and watch the time.
So we punished him. He hasn't forgotten. Still hugs us all a lot. From the heart.
We all do a lot of hugging around here. Just holding a child does a lot for the parent and the child i believe. Bad things in the child seem to melt away.
They are 13 and 15 now but we still do a lot of hugging. Always will.
Here's a look at the word "punishes" in the Bible (NIV)
1. Exodus 34:7
maintaining love to thousands, and forgiving wickedness, rebellion and sin. Yet he does not leave the guilty unpunished; he punishes the children and their children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation."
2. Numbers 14:18
'The LORD is slow to anger, abounding in love and forgiving sin and rebellion. Yet he does not leave the guilty unpunished; he punishes the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation.'
3. Job 34:26
He punishes them for their wickedness where everyone can see them,
4. Job 35:15
and further, that his anger never punishes and he does not take the least notice of wickedness.
5. Proverbs 3:12
because the LORD disciplines those he loves, as a father [ Hebrew; Septuagint / and he punishes ] the son he delights in.
6. Hebrews 12:6
because the Lord disciplines those he loves, and he punishes everyone he accepts as a son.” [ Prov. 3:11,12]
I read what you wrote about the word punishes in the book you call the bible
But I am afraid you do not understand the heart of God when he had thoses verses wrote
Lets look
-----------------------------------------------
Here's a look at the word "punishes" in the Bible (NIV)
1. Exodus 34:7
maintaining love to thousands, and forgiving wickedness, rebellion and sin. Yet he does not leave the guilty unpunished; he punishes the children and their children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation."
------------------------------------------------
This is not talking about what you think but here what its talking about
If I sin by smoking the sin will cause sickness from my sin to the third and fourth generation
But this was not wrote to pushish anyone but to teach what sin brings to our family with hopes we try not to sin
Its a law that God was tring to teach us Look at the warning on drinking while with child
You see its not about pushishment but about loving us enough to warn us of painful outcome
Sin is pass on in the blood whether we like it or not but love is pass on in the heart
I remember my brother and I, years ago.. his favorite way to say "I love you" was to pin me down and pass gas, leaving me no room for escape.. my mom probably would have hung us up somewhere if the laws of the land at that time would have allowed it.
No wonder I'm like I am today.
Bickering a lot of times turns out to be not such a bad thing. Diplomats have turned it into an art form..
Gee CM, talk about hypocrisy. You started a discussion about God's love and then defined it in *your* terms. Lindy wisely stated that your terms are not universally understood. Father means different things to different people and cultures. Def59 simply stated that the Bible says God is love and God is our Father and attempted to present the Bible's terms of what that includes. So you, in all of your Christian love, tell him to go away!
Come on! For all of you who think the "right wing fundamentalists" are judgmental hypocrites, this is a good lesson. There are close-minded judgmental hypocrites on both sides of the aisle.
Liberal and conservative, left wing, right wing; When you challenge their creed, they do the same thing.
Def59 simply stated that the Bible says God is love and God is our Father and attempted to present the Bible's terms of what that includes. So you, in all of your Christian love, tell him to go away!
I didn't tell him to go away.
I said go start your own thread.
A self-righteous stand I will not take against anyone.
Just trying to stop a war before it starts on this thread.
"attempted to present the Bible's terms of what that includes"
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year2027
God first
Beloved CM
God bless your heart
Yes its that simple all about love
with love and an holy kiss blowing your way Roy
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dmiller
CM ---
Egg-zactly!!!
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rascal
Speaking as a parent of multiple children.... I gotta say that though I am constantly assured of their love for me........ what I REALLY would enjoy is if they`d get along with each other better.....I grow annoyed with the incesant bickering....and rather than care who is *right* I`d much rather see them be considerate and kind of one another other.
I have to wonder if thats what God had in mind when Jesus spoke of the two *new* commandments.
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CM
lol...yeah-i only have 2 how many you have rascal?
Sometimes what they argue about is just them growing. If i have a simple solution i'll tell em and end the thing quickly. And deeper solutions i can come up with sometimes. Sometimes i just let em go and they figure it out for themselves. They never get violent just argue.
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CM
Considerate and kind. That's the general rule here at my house. When they get way off of it i step in and straighten em out a little.
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rascal
Brace yourself cm.... I have SEVEN children....lol.
Is it any wonder that I value peace?
I just wonder if God sighs with exasperation over our bickering over doctrinal/denominational matters.. almost like kids arguing over who Daddy loves best....
I gotta say that when one of the kiddoes puts aside the argument and instead if trying to change their sybling.... deciding to just apreciate and love them.....I am always gratefull for the greater maturity shown rather than the kid wearing their sybling out to prove themselves right....
Does this make any sense?
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CM
7 wow!
Yeah that makes sense. "greater maturity shown"
I've had to tell them to just drop the subject though at times. Sometimes they both just hold to their own opinions and don't let the other one bother em about their different opinion.
yeah a lot like us who are all grown up now, or are we...lol
I do learn a lot from them too though.
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
have you ever told your children they are going to be tormented in hell forever if they do not obey you?
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CM
lol...no...cause I know they won't be..
I'm sure you're just saying this for others
benefit though
getting to know you a little bit song
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
i am sure "for others" will benefit from your love toward your children
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
you damn right CM !!!
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
you are so right
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
i love my children too
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lindyhopper
While I have had loving parents I have seen enough to know that "father" does not equal "love".
People have different ideas of what love is and what a father is. If the Bible is to define it's own terms and there are thousands of different christian groups all claiming differnt "Biblical" ideals, that puts us in a bit of a pickel.
From my perspective the God of the Bible is not always the greatest dad in the world. That may just be my perspective. Maybe that is what it is all about. God isn't really love. That is condesencio (never spell that right). Love is a human concept and its meaning is as varied as we humans are. Maybe, if there is a God, that is what we need to learn.
In it's most basic form love is respect, IMO. Respect someone else's opinions, choices, the way they live their life, treating them the way you would like to be treated.
In the twi, love was obedience. I only have one kid, and of course I want him to do what I tell him to. I want him to do it the first time. It is a rare day in which that happens. Of course when our kids don't obey, we still love them, but more importantly for this discussion, they still love us. Love does not equal obedience!
Now if I had never seen or heard anything of my father except for what other people had told me about him, I may respct him. Then again, maybe I wouldn't.
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CM
It's interesting to note that love is used more in the new testament then the old.
So much has been given to us in the new testament that love has to be the balance to it all. Otherwise we would fall prey to many other things that are mentioned in the new testament.
Lindy I believe you will see love even bigger then you do now one day. I see what you are saying though.
"Of course when our kids don't obey, we still love them, but more importantly for this discussion, they still love us. Love does not equal obedience!"
Amen, man. Even while we were yet sinners Jesus died for us. God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son. Love is the factor, the motivation here. God loved us first. Still does.
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def59
I believe God is the perfect father and he chastises, disciplines, punishes those he loves. It's in Hebrews.
That said, God is slow to anger, abounding in love and is ready to embrace us. However, he has stated on several times that he hates sin. When we fall, we have to confess our sin to him — and others we are accountable to.
It is often those times when perceive a drop in the father's love (blessings) that we are cooled in our affections toward him and start to walk away.
We are to live for God and His glory, not the other way around.
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CM
was telling this story in chat last nite
thought it would be appropriate for this thread
My youngest son was supposed to be at a neighbors house playing and it was past the time that we told him to be home. So i went to get him. He wasn't there.
So I came back home and got my oldest son and went looking for him. Cuz my oldest might know where he would be. Still couldn't find him after an hour and it was getting dark.
My wife was really upset now. Sitting on the front porch. Crying a lot. "Where's my baby!" Was the only words she could get out. We got back in the car and went looking again. And we had the cell phone with us so she could call if he showed up. I was near calling the police.
Well...she called. Could hardly understand her she was crying so much. He had come home riding his bike from another neighbors house 2 doors down. I could even hear my youngest crying in the background.
I got home and they were both still crying. My youngest said he wanted to be grounded for life! Still crying.
We said no. You have to hug us twice as much now. And remember to tell us when you are going to someone elses house and watch the time.
So we punished him. He hasn't forgotten. Still hugs us all a lot. From the heart.
We all do a lot of hugging around here. Just holding a child does a lot for the parent and the child i believe. Bad things in the child seem to melt away.
They are 13 and 15 now but we still do a lot of hugging. Always will.
Punishment from God may not be what we think.
I think we punish ourselves worse than God would.
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def59
punishment is for criminals
discipline is for children.
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def59
Here's a look at the word "punishes" in the Bible (NIV)
1. Exodus 34:7
maintaining love to thousands, and forgiving wickedness, rebellion and sin. Yet he does not leave the guilty unpunished; he punishes the children and their children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation."
2. Numbers 14:18
'The LORD is slow to anger, abounding in love and forgiving sin and rebellion. Yet he does not leave the guilty unpunished; he punishes the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation.'
3. Job 34:26
He punishes them for their wickedness where everyone can see them,
4. Job 35:15
and further, that his anger never punishes and he does not take the least notice of wickedness.
5. Proverbs 3:12
because the LORD disciplines those he loves, as a father [ Hebrew; Septuagint / and he punishes ] the son he delights in.
6. Hebrews 12:6
because the Lord disciplines those he loves, and he punishes everyone he accepts as a son.” [ Prov. 3:11,12]
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CM
i understand some of the bible
but i don't understand you def
not sure if i want to
go start your own thread called
god is a general
or something
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year2027
God first
Beloved Def59
God bless your heart
I read what you wrote about the word punishes in the book you call the bible
But I am afraid you do not understand the heart of God when he had thoses verses wrote
Lets look
-----------------------------------------------
Here's a look at the word "punishes" in the Bible (NIV)
1. Exodus 34:7
maintaining love to thousands, and forgiving wickedness, rebellion and sin. Yet he does not leave the guilty unpunished; he punishes the children and their children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation."
------------------------------------------------
This is not talking about what you think but here what its talking about
If I sin by smoking the sin will cause sickness from my sin to the third and fourth generation
But this was not wrote to pushish anyone but to teach what sin brings to our family with hopes we try not to sin
Its a law that God was tring to teach us Look at the warning on drinking while with child
You see its not about pushishment but about loving us enough to warn us of painful outcome
Sin is pass on in the blood whether we like it or not but love is pass on in the heart
What better Love
with love and an holy kiss blowing your way Roy
Beloved CM
God bless your heart
Its all about love my friend
with love and an holy kiss blowing your way Roy
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Ham
"I grow annoyed with the incesant bickering"
Rascal, that's a tough one sometimes..
I remember my brother and I, years ago.. his favorite way to say "I love you" was to pin me down and pass gas, leaving me no room for escape.. my mom probably would have hung us up somewhere if the laws of the land at that time would have allowed it.
No wonder I'm like I am today.
Bickering a lot of times turns out to be not such a bad thing. Diplomats have turned it into an art form..
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Jbarrax
Gee CM, talk about hypocrisy. You started a discussion about God's love and then defined it in *your* terms. Lindy wisely stated that your terms are not universally understood. Father means different things to different people and cultures. Def59 simply stated that the Bible says God is love and God is our Father and attempted to present the Bible's terms of what that includes. So you, in all of your Christian love, tell him to go away!
Come on! For all of you who think the "right wing fundamentalists" are judgmental hypocrites, this is a good lesson. There are close-minded judgmental hypocrites on both sides of the aisle.
Liberal and conservative, left wing, right wing; When you challenge their creed, they do the same thing.
Peace
JerryB
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CM
I didn't tell him to go away.
I said go start your own thread.
A self-righteous stand I will not take against anyone.
Just trying to stop a war before it starts on this thread.
"attempted to present the Bible's terms of what that includes"
it was a little more than that
btw Thanks Roy
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