Re:"I quit for a long time but NEVER quit craving cigarettes."
Yes, and alcoholics will often tell you they still crave a drink. Junk food addicts tell you they can't do low-carb diets because they crave sugar. Bill Clinton was powerless to overcome the intern in the Oval Office because he craved....
Sudo, upon what (aside from what appears to be an attitude that nicotine is just a bad habit that can easily be shaken by all but the weak willed) do you base your view that nicotine isn't highly addictive?
I strongly disagree, and so do the MD/PhD researchers I've interviewed on the topic.
Re:"Sudo, upon what (aside from what appears to be an attitude that nicotine is just a bad habit that can easily be shaken by all but the weak willed) do you base your view that nicotine isn't highly addictive?"
Well, how 'bout there ain't no measurable withdrawal symptoms for one?? You go cold turkey from opiates and you gots the runs, sweats, pilated hair follicles (what a cold turkey looks like) and various other things I forget about. You quit barbiturates and you get major seizures that can KILL YOU!!!!!!!!
But you quit cigarettes and what do you get?? A lot of whining. You don't get sweats.. you don't get hives.. In fact you don't get anything more than a desire for another dang cigarette, yet you want to believe that nicotine is the most addictive substance on Earth?? And you want me to take you seriously??
I don't care diddly squat about recidivism. Nicotine is legal and hence more temptation. Narcotics are not. Proves nothing about addiction potential.
So to rehash.. one drug debilitates you for weeks and can even KILL you if you stop using it regularly and the other makes you ornery for a week or so. Which one is more addictive??
I can give you a first hand account what very well be in your future if you don't quit smoking NOW!
I watched my mother's death march during the last four years of her life. She had smoked 1-2 packs a day for around 40 years. She quit about ten years before before her death in 2001.
Five years prior she had to go on oxygen and start a regimen of several steroids(including the high powered prednizone) in order to keep her lungs from filling up with fluid.
The prednizone was necessary for her to live but the side effects were brutal...diabetes and
rheumatoid arthritis. I had to watch her struggle to stand up in the morning...the RA took a terrible toll on her ankles. To make matters worse she had to deal with her 20' oxygen tubes getting tangled around her feet
I used to come home to find her face blue from lack of oxygen. I usually found that her oxygen
tube had become disconnected from the concentrator. When she left the house she had to make sure that she had enough oxygen bottles to get where she was going and back.
She also had terrible coughing attacks because of her lungs filling up with fluid. Often she would produce blood laden mucous from this coughing.
Her RA got so bad that the doctors put her a high powered pain medication which caused her to become paranoid and delusional. She spent time in the psych wing of the University Hospital. The doctors reduced the pain medication and released her to a nursing home.
Again her RA became unbearable so her pain medication was increased again and the paranoia and delusions resumed. She was convinced that the nurses were plotting to kill her and other patients. She also called 911 from her room several times a day to report her abduction.
She also tried to escape through her window and stabbed a nurse with a Bic pen because she believed she was in danger from the nurse.
During a weekend (when I decided to take a break from seeing her because I was at my wits end) she had a heart attack and was taken to Duke's ICU.
She was put on a ventilator. The Duke doctors who were caring for her met with my brother and I to discuss her prognosis. They said that we had two options; (a) perform a traichotomy through she would have to breathe through a oxygen tube inserted in the incision, or (b) remove the ventilator which most likely would bring about her death.
The thought that I struggled with in confronting this decision was that I was called upon to play God with my mother's life. I decided that quality of life was the paramount issue and carried more weightthan keeping a body functioning in a state of misery.
The ventilator was removed and she was gone in a few hours. I had to watch her struggle to breath until the doctors decided that she was a "full go" (the nurses words) and administered an anathesia to kill the oxygen hunger.
So think about this tome the next time you are tempted to light up. Peace.
But you quit cigarettes and what do you get?? A lot of whining. You don't get sweats.. you don't get hives.. In fact you don't get anything more than a desire for another dang cigarette, yet you want to believe that nicotine is the most addictive substance on Earth?? And you want me to take you seriously??
Methinks that is the definition of addiction.
Withdrawal symptoms have nothing to do with the power of addiction. Most folks who want to quit hard drugs can withstand the riggors and horrors of withdrawal - - most tobacco addicts have more difficulty...it's the substance, not the character of the individual.
Well, how 'bout there ain't no measurable withdrawal symptoms for one?? You go cold turkey from opiates and you gots the runs, sweats, pilated hair follicles (what a cold turkey looks like) and various other things I forget about. You quit barbiturates and you get major seizures that can KILL YOU!!!!!!!!
But you quit cigarettes and what do you get?? A lot of whining. You don't get sweats.. you don't get hives.. In fact you don't get anything more than a desire for another dang cigarette, yet you want to believe that nicotine is the most addictive substance on Earth?? And you want me to take you seriously??
Sudo -- peace! :)--> That is your POV, and a medically sound one, yet -- may I suggest a different POV -- one that I happen to hold, since it affects me directly.
What you described about the physical addiction is correct, and serious things can happen to the body when a substance (that used to be there) no longer is. You are right about this when physical addiction is the topic, but the other side of the coin is the psychological addiction, which is what I think is being talked about here as well.
Cigs are the *more addicting* (psychologically if you will) because of the constant "hand to mouth" contact. It becomes a habit that one associates with everything they do, all day long. Cup of coffee - gotta have a cigarette. Have a beer -- gotta have a cigarette. Sit at the computer -- smoke while you read the screen. Etc.
I said this affects me directly -- since this is the situation I am in. I've smoked for too many years (nigh on 40 years now), and have *quit* (or as GsGeorge says -- paused) many times, but was always drawn back to it because of the psychological aspect of it, rather than the physical. I have had (and do have) no problem with quitting when I want to, but the *mental* image of doing things without a smoke is what is hardest, and that is what draws me back to it.
I can not have a beer, if I have *quit* smoking, because the two are so closely related. Having looked at my actions, and desires when those two are involved, I realize that it is the *high* that comes from both of them together. Well -- the
*high* from a cigarette only happens with the first one of the day, and after that -- it's all a futile attempt to reproduce what happened with the first one. But that doesn't deter the *addict*, like me, and others in the same boat.
Other drugs may leave you on the floor puking your guts out from withdrawal, and cigs certainly don't do that -- but the cigs have the mental control over a person -- and like a skull and cross-bones, it is ever pointing a forefinger, beckoning to the ex-smoker, and quoting "Hotel California" ---
The first three days was the hardest for me. After that, it was just kind of a nagging annoyance.
I knew when the day I quit that I couldn't f$%^ around with it, though. No having "just one" to get over a rough patch. I knew, for me anyway, that one smoke and I'd be back to a pack and a half/a day habit.
So my advice, bite your lip and hang in there. It's really not all that tough. You've proven you can go the distance, you've gone all day. Tomorrow will make two.
dmiller ...are you stalking me....LOL.. ya know i love ya...and ya know i got no problems with pov's.......... btw, i'll talk to ya in chat about the clue...heehee
People say to me "those things will kill you" to which I reply... yes maybe but if I quit... it may certainly kill you!!! LOL ..... yes I know I should quit and will....
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Raf
For some reason that I can't quite understand, I started smoking about 18 months ago. I had a few this morning, but then... I threw out the rest of the pack... and I threw out the lighter... and I...
Raf
Maybe too soon. But I'm counting on all of you to keep the pressure on!
Sudo
Raf, You started smoking 18 months ago? Man, that is soooooo atypical. That's not the kind of thing you're wanting to hear, I know but inquiring minds want to know... how did that happen??
Belle
Just because the physical symptoms of withdrawal are worse doesn't mean it's any less addictive psychologically or in other ways.
I quit for a long time but NEVER quit craving cigarettes. Anytime I was around smokers, I'd move closer to them just to inhale the 2nd hand smoke.
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Sudo
Belle,
Re:"I quit for a long time but NEVER quit craving cigarettes."
Yes, and alcoholics will often tell you they still crave a drink. Junk food addicts tell you they can't do low-carb diets because they crave sugar. Bill Clinton was powerless to overcome the intern in the Oval Office because he craved....
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Raf
...cigars.
Which brings us back to smoking.
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Linda Z
Sudo, upon what (aside from what appears to be an attitude that nicotine is just a bad habit that can easily be shaken by all but the weak willed) do you base your view that nicotine isn't highly addictive?
I strongly disagree, and so do the MD/PhD researchers I've interviewed on the topic.
Are you sure you aren't Dr. Laura in disguise?
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mstar1
How's it goin?
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Sudo
Linda,
Re:"Sudo, upon what (aside from what appears to be an attitude that nicotine is just a bad habit that can easily be shaken by all but the weak willed) do you base your view that nicotine isn't highly addictive?"
Well, how 'bout there ain't no measurable withdrawal symptoms for one?? You go cold turkey from opiates and you gots the runs, sweats, pilated hair follicles (what a cold turkey looks like) and various other things I forget about. You quit barbiturates and you get major seizures that can KILL YOU!!!!!!!!
But you quit cigarettes and what do you get?? A lot of whining. You don't get sweats.. you don't get hives.. In fact you don't get anything more than a desire for another dang cigarette, yet you want to believe that nicotine is the most addictive substance on Earth?? And you want me to take you seriously??
I don't care diddly squat about recidivism. Nicotine is legal and hence more temptation. Narcotics are not. Proves nothing about addiction potential.
So to rehash.. one drug debilitates you for weeks and can even KILL you if you stop using it regularly and the other makes you ornery for a week or so. Which one is more addictive??
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Raf
Assuming you meant me,
So far so good. 24 hours! Woohoo!
And I survived a night out, which is the more remarkable achievement.
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oenophile
Raf,
I can give you a first hand account what very well be in your future if you don't quit smoking NOW!
I watched my mother's death march during the last four years of her life. She had smoked 1-2 packs a day for around 40 years. She quit about ten years before before her death in 2001.
Five years prior she had to go on oxygen and start a regimen of several steroids(including the high powered prednizone) in order to keep her lungs from filling up with fluid.
The prednizone was necessary for her to live but the side effects were brutal...diabetes and
rheumatoid arthritis. I had to watch her struggle to stand up in the morning...the RA took a terrible toll on her ankles. To make matters worse she had to deal with her 20' oxygen tubes getting tangled around her feet
I used to come home to find her face blue from lack of oxygen. I usually found that her oxygen
tube had become disconnected from the concentrator. When she left the house she had to make sure that she had enough oxygen bottles to get where she was going and back.
She also had terrible coughing attacks because of her lungs filling up with fluid. Often she would produce blood laden mucous from this coughing.
Her RA got so bad that the doctors put her a high powered pain medication which caused her to become paranoid and delusional. She spent time in the psych wing of the University Hospital. The doctors reduced the pain medication and released her to a nursing home.
Again her RA became unbearable so her pain medication was increased again and the paranoia and delusions resumed. She was convinced that the nurses were plotting to kill her and other patients. She also called 911 from her room several times a day to report her abduction.
She also tried to escape through her window and stabbed a nurse with a Bic pen because she believed she was in danger from the nurse.
During a weekend (when I decided to take a break from seeing her because I was at my wits end) she had a heart attack and was taken to Duke's ICU.
She was put on a ventilator. The Duke doctors who were caring for her met with my brother and I to discuss her prognosis. They said that we had two options; (a) perform a traichotomy through she would have to breathe through a oxygen tube inserted in the incision, or (b) remove the ventilator which most likely would bring about her death.
The thought that I struggled with in confronting this decision was that I was called upon to play God with my mother's life. I decided that quality of life was the paramount issue and carried more weightthan keeping a body functioning in a state of misery.
The ventilator was removed and she was gone in a few hours. I had to watch her struggle to breath until the doctors decided that she was a "full go" (the nurses words) and administered an anathesia to kill the oxygen hunger.
So think about this tome the next time you are tempted to light up. Peace.
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krys
Methinks that is the definition of addiction.
Withdrawal symptoms have nothing to do with the power of addiction. Most folks who want to quit hard drugs can withstand the riggors and horrors of withdrawal - - most tobacco addicts have more difficulty...it's the substance, not the character of the individual.
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mstar1
Great! keep us posted
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dmiller
Sudo -- peace!
:)--> That is your POV, and a medically sound one, yet -- may I suggest a different POV -- one that I happen to hold, since it affects me directly.
What you described about the physical addiction is correct, and serious things can happen to the body when a substance (that used to be there) no longer is. You are right about this when physical addiction is the topic, but the other side of the coin is the psychological addiction, which is what I think is being talked about here as well.
Cigs are the *more addicting* (psychologically if you will) because of the constant "hand to mouth" contact. It becomes a habit that one associates with everything they do, all day long. Cup of coffee - gotta have a cigarette. Have a beer -- gotta have a cigarette. Sit at the computer -- smoke while you read the screen. Etc.
I said this affects me directly -- since this is the situation I am in. I've smoked for too many years (nigh on 40 years now), and have *quit* (or as GsGeorge says -- paused) many times, but was always drawn back to it because of the psychological aspect of it, rather than the physical. I have had (and do have) no problem with quitting when I want to, but the *mental* image of doing things without a smoke is what is hardest, and that is what draws me back to it.
I can not have a beer, if I have *quit* smoking, because the two are so closely related. Having looked at my actions, and desires when those two are involved, I realize that it is the *high* that comes from both of them together. Well -- the
*high* from a cigarette only happens with the first one of the day, and after that -- it's all a futile attempt to reproduce what happened with the first one. But that doesn't deter the *addict*, like me, and others in the same boat.
Other drugs may leave you on the floor puking your guts out from withdrawal, and cigs certainly don't do that -- but the cigs have the mental control over a person -- and like a skull and cross-bones, it is ever pointing a forefinger, beckoning to the ex-smoker, and quoting "Hotel California" ---
You can check out, but you can never leave
Hope this made sense. You did.
:)-->
David
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dmiller
And Raf -- Congrats. Go the distance. You are an inspiration.
:)-->
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jen-o
raf....f'em...if cigarettes is the worse habit you have,,,,,,,and they are all so damn perfect....f'em
all these perfect people...LMAO
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dmiller
Jen -- I am far from perfect. Having a POV is not making yourself *perfect*, but is making a POV. Just my imho!
:)-->
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George Aar
Raf,
The first three days was the hardest for me. After that, it was just kind of a nagging annoyance.
I knew when the day I quit that I couldn't f$%^ around with it, though. No having "just one" to get over a rough patch. I knew, for me anyway, that one smoke and I'd be back to a pack and a half/a day habit.
So my advice, bite your lip and hang in there. It's really not all that tough. You've proven you can go the distance, you've gone all day. Tomorrow will make two.
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shazdancer
((((oeno))))
Death by inches, how tragic!
And how difficult for you to care for her in all those stages. And how loving of you that you did.
Take care,
Shaz
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Zshot
Raf,
This might not be an issue for you, But...
Cigs = $35.00 per carton
1 carton per week
4 cartons a month (average 4 week month)
$140.00 per month
$1680.00 per year. Just up in smoke...
Should we also add the expense of lighters, ashtrays, air freshners, cleaners, stained teeth etc...
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oldiesman
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jen-o
dmiller ...are you stalking me....LOL.. ya know i love ya...and ya know i got no problems with pov's.......... btw, i'll talk to ya in chat about the clue...heehee
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Raf
Two days!
I think I feel my taste buds coming back. Ahhhhhh.
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Zshot
Raf,
Good Job!!!
:D-->
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Al Poole
Hey Dan, you wrote:
If you're around me "you might get".... killed!!
People say to me "those things will kill you" to which I reply... yes maybe but if I quit... it may certainly kill you!!! LOL ..... yes I know I should quit and will....
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Raf
Come on, Al. Join me!
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Zshot
Raf,
As a new day begins, how are you doing?
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