Christ Geer's Dog and Pony show, a reference to the "Clergy Meeting" that was called at Way Headquarters in late 86. Or was it 87? Now my memories going fuzzy. I think it was November of 86.
He was the Dog and the Pony. 1/2 was him at a podium preaching on the evils of all Way believers in the U.S. He started with the Way Corps and worked out from there. We were largely a possessed ministry. Everyone was possessed, getting possessed or being influenced by devil spirits and their possessee's. He didn't mention you by name Galen but I'm sure you would have made the list.
Why go to a Dog and Pony Show, when you know there's a 50-50 per cent chance it's going to be smoke-blowing contest, up your hiney? Because that's the only way you're going to get any information first hand. You wanna dance, you gotta pay the band.
Which I did. Plane fare's were paid for by the Way Nash, for everyone who wanted one. I bought my own and took enough cash to get a cab out of New Knoxville if I decided I wanted to leave. I stayed - again, I wanted to hear first hand everything that happened. Nothing happened, really. He left, Craig replayed the tape of what Chris Geer had said and they played some Advanced Class tapes to followup and that was that. It was mostly a bird's eye view of the condition at that moment in time of the Way's "Leadership" and for me a last chance to try and talk to the BOT's personally. It was the last time I did face to face, although briefly as they didn't have much to say, and the last time I set foot on Way property.
(By this time the POP had been distributed so a lot of that information was already known too, as far as Geer's displeaure (kaff) at the Way of the U.S.A.'s handling of business with Euro Way.)
So as far as Euro Way copies of PFAL goes, there was a lot of interest after that amongst people who wanted them as I think anyone at that meeting had at least an inkling that the BOT's weren't going to get their minds right anytime soon. They were pretty much mush-brained, incapable of doing anything more than sitting like a bumps on a log and muttering to themselves like victims of Alzheimer's. Not a pretty sight, not much you could do about and not an exaggeration.
The first time I read of "dog and pony shows" was in the book, "Soldier" by Tony Herbert, the US Army hero from the Korean War, and the Vietnam War. He spoke to us at Corps Week one year btw.
At any rate, in his book, he mentioned the situation report to a bunch of officers after the debriefing of the actual participants in an action that took place, and referred to these as "dog and pony shows".
During these meetings, some colonel would get up and speak loftily of some action where the grunts kicked some a$$ with "minimal casualties", and the real horror and truth of said action was that it was a lot more hellacious for our guys than the reporting colonel let on, or most likely even knew of. Usually, the reporting colonel would go on to say that the action was a success, and the "area now secure", much to the dismay of the listening NCO's and sargeants present in the back of the room.
And Socks, do you remember in that meeting, the poor fellow in the back who began to walk out of the meeting toward where the bathroom was? CG stopped the meeting and singled the poor fellow out and said; "Where are you going!?" And he replied that he had to go to the bathroom, and CG made some terribly derogatory comment to him about leaving the meetin "just to go to the bathroom".
Turns out the poor man had be-.... his pants he was so freaked by things CG had said at the meeting. I learned that later from a friend who was sitting next to him. Oh I was burned by that! Poor guy. A really nice and kind minister to God's people he was, and probably still is, like you still are...
Well Longone, that sounds completely and totally like the real roots of said term, but it has certainly been used many many times as a cliche' for meaningless, as well as deceptive "get togethers" since it's early usage. Thanks for the history bruh! :)-->
I had heard the term used in a particular way, and I have used the term in that specific manner. I assumed that such was the meaning of the term.
I truly did not know that it had been used for other things. I guess that going to the kind of 'dog and pony' shows that I have seen, kind of burned the image into my mind.
Thanks for coming to my rescue Long Gone and Jonny! Bakatya, JL! I'm coning up for air!
Derail #89- I remember the bathroom incident. Good Lord, it's like recalling a bad nightmare. Back in that humid, stuffy BRC in late Fall, snow already on the ground if I remember right. Condensation on the windows. Those little foldup school seat chairs and folding chairs all perfectly strung in the back. Standing outside on a break shivering in the cold, smokin' 'em if you had 'em. Last time I saw a lot of those people that came so I'm kind of glad I went. It was the Last Chance for me to see exactly what was being proposed by For-Christs-Sake Geer and the Way No-Nuts'ees. Basically, nothing. I'd already made my personal pitch to one of the trustees at ROA 86. Went nowhere, in fact at least one of them was considering leaving themselves, at that time.
Dog and Pony Show: Other possible terms, according to my limited understanding:
"All Blow and No Show"
"All Cake and No Flake" (regional West Coast usage)
"All Smoke and No Toke" (60's usage)
*******screech**************** to the thread topic-
Come to think of it I have no idea what the Way Carnivale in New Knoxville would think of the U.S.A. PFAL being copied and used. I suspect they'd uh, frown on any unauthorized use of anything, including their used toilet paper unless of course you were an Active Graduate of Any Current Courses and Requirments and a regular contributor of your abundance and particpated in a local Way Fellowship not less than once a month and had no outstanding Accusations or Genuine Suspicions against you that hadn't been resolved and were ALSO on the List of Approved Participants in your local area with at least two Way Leaders who could vouch for you as of last night, in which case you could probably have all their used toilet paper you wanted. For a donation, given in love, of course.
But if someone had their receipt, a letter, or something to prove their copy of PFAL came from Way-Euro, my guess would be they'd be okay, depending on the current state of the agreements. Now, if they wanted to the Bustees could probably insist thre be a disclaimer presented by every owner upon every use. But that's just a guess. If they haven't by now they probably won't. Until they change their minds.
I have no idea how to get a copy from anyone though, so I can't really answer the question of the thread, sorry.
Galen, that full Bible course takes around two years to complete...if you work at it steadily. One of your entries, Gifts of the Spirit, is the original from which Wierwille adapted Foundational, Intermediate & Advanced.
He's a much better speaker anyway, and his stories are riveting.
"Galen, that full Bible course takes around two years to complete...if you work at it steadily. One of your entries, Gifts of the Spirit, is the original from which Wierwille adapted Foundational, Intermediate & Advanced."
Could be. I dont know.
A couple that was recently in our home-fellowships, had taken Brother Leonard's 'Full Bible Course' course. It did not sound like it took them but a few weeks. From their website they run a new class a couple times each year, from their HQ in Texas and I guess the rest from their site in Canada.
I went through the entire listing of what books and courses they sale. Since some courses and books have the same name, I put the two together, assuming that course 'A' must require book 'B'. This was purely an assumption on my part.
I dont know which courses and their books correspond with what in TWI-ese.
PFAL was sometimes a single class [early on] and sometimes broken into 3 components. None of Brother Leonard's courses and books call themselves [anything that would tell humble me] which one would be the first in the 'Full Bible Course' series. Assuming that it is a seres.
Recommended Posts
socks
Christ Geer's Dog and Pony show, a reference to the "Clergy Meeting" that was called at Way Headquarters in late 86. Or was it 87? Now my memories going fuzzy. I think it was November of 86.
He was the Dog and the Pony. 1/2 was him at a podium preaching on the evils of all Way believers in the U.S. He started with the Way Corps and worked out from there. We were largely a possessed ministry. Everyone was possessed, getting possessed or being influenced by devil spirits and their possessee's. He didn't mention you by name Galen but I'm sure you would have made the list.
Why go to a Dog and Pony Show, when you know there's a 50-50 per cent chance it's going to be smoke-blowing contest, up your hiney? Because that's the only way you're going to get any information first hand. You wanna dance, you gotta pay the band.
Which I did. Plane fare's were paid for by the Way Nash, for everyone who wanted one. I bought my own and took enough cash to get a cab out of New Knoxville if I decided I wanted to leave. I stayed - again, I wanted to hear first hand everything that happened. Nothing happened, really. He left, Craig replayed the tape of what Chris Geer had said and they played some Advanced Class tapes to followup and that was that. It was mostly a bird's eye view of the condition at that moment in time of the Way's "Leadership" and for me a last chance to try and talk to the BOT's personally. It was the last time I did face to face, although briefly as they didn't have much to say, and the last time I set foot on Way property.
(By this time the POP had been distributed so a lot of that information was already known too, as far as Geer's displeaure (kaff) at the Way of the U.S.A.'s handling of business with Euro Way.)
So as far as Euro Way copies of PFAL goes, there was a lot of interest after that amongst people who wanted them as I think anyone at that meeting had at least an inkling that the BOT's weren't going to get their minds right anytime soon. They were pretty much mush-brained, incapable of doing anything more than sitting like a bumps on a log and muttering to themselves like victims of Alzheimer's. Not a pretty sight, not much you could do about and not an exaggeration.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
J0nny Ling0
Ok, smoke and mirrors it is and was!
:)-->
The first time I read of "dog and pony shows" was in the book, "Soldier" by Tony Herbert, the US Army hero from the Korean War, and the Vietnam War. He spoke to us at Corps Week one year btw.
At any rate, in his book, he mentioned the situation report to a bunch of officers after the debriefing of the actual participants in an action that took place, and referred to these as "dog and pony shows".
During these meetings, some colonel would get up and speak loftily of some action where the grunts kicked some a$$ with "minimal casualties", and the real horror and truth of said action was that it was a lot more hellacious for our guys than the reporting colonel let on, or most likely even knew of. Usually, the reporting colonel would go on to say that the action was a success, and the "area now secure", much to the dismay of the listening NCO's and sargeants present in the back of the room.
A nice whitewash kind of a thing...
Link to comment
Share on other sites
J0nny Ling0
Hi Socks. And how are you sir?
JL
Link to comment
Share on other sites
J0nny Ling0
And Socks, do you remember in that meeting, the poor fellow in the back who began to walk out of the meeting toward where the bathroom was? CG stopped the meeting and singled the poor fellow out and said; "Where are you going!?" And he replied that he had to go to the bathroom, and CG made some terribly derogatory comment to him about leaving the meetin "just to go to the bathroom".
Turns out the poor man had be-.... his pants he was so freaked by things CG had said at the meeting. I learned that later from a friend who was sitting next to him. Oh I was burned by that! Poor guy. A really nice and kind minister to God's people he was, and probably still is, like you still are...
Link to comment
Share on other sites
LG
Lord, folks! A dog and pony show is any elaborate show with little substance. It derives from small touring circuses that had no large animals.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
J0nny Ling0
Well Longone, that sounds completely and totally like the real roots of said term, but it has certainly been used many many times as a cliche' for meaningless, as well as deceptive "get togethers" since it's early usage. Thanks for the history bruh!
:)-->
Link to comment
Share on other sites
LG
Of course it's used that way, Jonny, because the show is designed to conceal the lack of substance. Socks used it correctly.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
J0nny Ling0
Yes, and thank you LG. I think it was Galen who maybe thought it was used incorrectly.
I'm really trying to be a good person, really.
Hey, maybe that should be my little "tag line", but I don't know how to do the signature thing. Maybe I will try to figure it out...
:)-->
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Galen
I apologize.
I had heard the term used in a particular way, and I have used the term in that specific manner. I assumed that such was the meaning of the term.
I truly did not know that it had been used for other things. I guess that going to the kind of 'dog and pony' shows that I have seen, kind of burned the image into my mind.
Again sorry about the inconvience. My mistake.
:-)
Link to comment
Share on other sites
socks
Thanks for coming to my rescue Long Gone and Jonny! Bakatya, JL! I'm coning up for air!
Derail #89- I remember the bathroom incident. Good Lord, it's like recalling a bad nightmare. Back in that humid, stuffy BRC in late Fall, snow already on the ground if I remember right. Condensation on the windows. Those little foldup school seat chairs and folding chairs all perfectly strung in the back. Standing outside on a break shivering in the cold, smokin' 'em if you had 'em. Last time I saw a lot of those people that came so I'm kind of glad I went. It was the Last Chance for me to see exactly what was being proposed by For-Christs-Sake Geer and the Way No-Nuts'ees. Basically, nothing. I'd already made my personal pitch to one of the trustees at ROA 86. Went nowhere, in fact at least one of them was considering leaving themselves, at that time.
Dog and Pony Show: Other possible terms, according to my limited understanding:
"All Blow and No Show"
"All Cake and No Flake" (regional West Coast usage)
"All Smoke and No Toke" (60's usage)
*******screech**************** to the thread topic-
Come to think of it I have no idea what the Way Carnivale in New Knoxville would think of the U.S.A. PFAL being copied and used. I suspect they'd uh, frown on any unauthorized use of anything, including their used toilet paper unless of course you were an Active Graduate of Any Current Courses and Requirments and a regular contributor of your abundance and particpated in a local Way Fellowship not less than once a month and had no outstanding Accusations or Genuine Suspicions against you that hadn't been resolved and were ALSO on the List of Approved Participants in your local area with at least two Way Leaders who could vouch for you as of last night, in which case you could probably have all their used toilet paper you wanted. For a donation, given in love, of course.
But if someone had their receipt, a letter, or something to prove their copy of PFAL came from Way-Euro, my guess would be they'd be okay, depending on the current state of the agreements. Now, if they wanted to the Bustees could probably insist thre be a disclaimer presented by every owner upon every use. But that's just a guess. If they haven't by now they probably won't. Until they change their minds.
I have no idea how to get a copy from anyone though, so I can't really answer the question of the thread, sorry.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
WordWolf
Your "adder" is broken asunder.
I contextualized Paradiseden's comment-
involving $500 and PFAL-
to refer to $500 in current USA dollars
(let me know if you see it differently)
and PFAL FOUNDATIONAL CLASS, not ALL THREE
(let me know if you see it differently.)
So,
"Foundations" plus "the Everlasting Covenant" plus "Gifts of the Spirit" plus
"Positive Prayer" plus "Church Government" plus "Homiletics and Pastoral Theology"
plus "Holocaust"-
ASSUMING ALL THOSE BOOKS ARE NECESSARY FOR A FOUNDATIONAL LEVEL-
(and taking it as a given that your numbers are accurate)
is
$130
25
14
25
19
12
12
20
====
257
(checks twice.)
-------------------
Paradiseden: "I would make a $500 donation to obtain a copy of the PFAL class
on DVD or VHS."
WordWolf: "For a lot less money, you can get BG Leonard's class."
Leaving aside that it's still not "very closely held",
$749 may be more than $500,
but, since we're not comparing $500 versus BG Leonard's equivalent of all three
levels of PFAL, just the highest figure for comparison against the Foundational class,
$500 is approximately twice $257.
($257 + $257 is $ 514.)
This, of course, is more than $40, but $40 never gave you the ability to retake the
class at will. It's like the lawyerish
"You never BOUGHT our software. You bought a license to USE our software. We still own
the software and offer no guarantees it actually works or will continue to do so"
that computer users find utterly dishonest when referring to computers.
This is why the supposed guarantee to retake "the class" anywhere, anytime is
currently MEANINGLESS-
besides being dependent upon space during IDEAL circumstances,
it's impossible since they chose to stop running it,
and are insistent they're under no legal requirement to continue to do so with their
implied guarantee that "being able to take it anytime" means it will continue to
be offered.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
TheEvan
Galen, that full Bible course takes around two years to complete...if you work at it steadily. One of your entries, Gifts of the Spirit, is the original from which Wierwille adapted Foundational, Intermediate & Advanced.
He's a much better speaker anyway, and his stories are riveting.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Galen
TheEvan:
"Galen, that full Bible course takes around two years to complete...if you work at it steadily. One of your entries, Gifts of the Spirit, is the original from which Wierwille adapted Foundational, Intermediate & Advanced."
Could be. I dont know.
A couple that was recently in our home-fellowships, had taken Brother Leonard's 'Full Bible Course' course. It did not sound like it took them but a few weeks. From their website they run a new class a couple times each year, from their HQ in Texas and I guess the rest from their site in Canada.
I went through the entire listing of what books and courses they sale. Since some courses and books have the same name, I put the two together, assuming that course 'A' must require book 'B'. This was purely an assumption on my part.
I dont know which courses and their books correspond with what in TWI-ese.
PFAL was sometimes a single class [early on] and sometimes broken into 3 components. None of Brother Leonard's courses and books call themselves [anything that would tell humble me] which one would be the first in the 'Full Bible Course' series. Assuming that it is a seres.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.