But I don't think its really as much a matter of being stupid, but numb. Numb after a couple hundred or so compromises to have the "priviledge" to get the "truth". I think after a while, my eyes were just plain glazed over.
I think they played the good guy/bad buy scheme, and it worked- just a matter of applied psychology..
From time to time the opinion is put forth that things must have been good in TWI, or else why would we have stayed for 10, 15, 20 years?
My attitude has always been that twi was a place for folks who "wanted" to be there. If you didn't want to be there for some good reason, you didn't have to be. No excuses. Stop your complaining. Get out if you don't like it.
But I vote for the idea that there must have been "profit" in it, otherwise why would folks stay 5-30 years?
One example: my place of employment is at times, unpleasant to me. I keep coming back though. Why? It's profitable in some way. It adds something profitable to my life that otherwise I wouldn't have. I receive some benefit from it.
I could go search for another job but I am satisfied with being here, even though it's not perfect by any means.
Also, human beings tend not to want to be in hurtful and distressful situations, and usually back off from them if they can. Therefore most (I say most, not all) folks could have left twi much sooner than they did, if things were as bad as some assert.
Just one example of twi being profitable that speaks volumes to me was Jim Doop's experience, and his return to twi after being devastated in California. I suppose he could have walked away in CA, but he came back to coordinate Maine. Now why did he do that if things were so terrible around twi? Must have been something profitable happening, no?
I have had to ponder what made me/us vulnerable to manipulation into staying involved for so long in spite of the misery endured.
I think that there were many of us who were young teens, many of us (at least my friends) being from broken homes or bad situations .... that this might have been a huge factor in why the feeling of *belonging* to something important was so seductive.
I think personally that I needed to feel like I was a part of something that was fighting evil....somehow it made me feel as if I was a good person...that I was important because I belonged was on the front lins for God.....
I try hard to analyse my mindset so that I can be darn sure not to be vulnerable to the next scam that comes along.
1. Those of us who loved TWI so much that we went into the Corps ... were pretty much trapped. The little home fellowships were so wonderful, so we figured it would be even more wonderful rubbing shoulders with the guys who led this outfit. We wanted to be like them, so we could extend this wonderful-ness to everyone. Instead, once we settled in at a root locale, we saw how deceitful these leaders were, and we saw how the peons in those sweet fellowships back home were being used. But by then it was too late. We had sold everything (to be out-of-debt, as required); convinced our kids it was the right thing to do - to relocate - leaving friends, pets, schools, etc behind; and we had burned our own bridges back to non-Way friends and family. Do you see the trap? Oh, you could pry yourself out of it, but it would be very painful.
For us, we didn't have the guts to do that. We kept rationalizing that God would honor our intentions, and one day we could teach and live the Word like we had dreamed ... if we would just play the game and get through Corps training.
So, because we wouldn't deliver ourselves, God arranged it for us, and had us Marked and Avoided. We will always be grateful for that. But at the time ... it was a nightmare - homeless, jobless, destitude. No kidding. But we survived, and we're just fine now.
2. What was it they taught us? Something like ... the closeness to the real thing is how the fake thing succeeds ... what was it? Not enough coffee yet - I can't remember. Anyhow, TWI was real close to being genuinely good. But it wasn't really good at all. In fact, it was horribly bad. I have heard it has changed. I pray this is true. -Pat
My attitude has always been that twi was a place for folks who "wanted" to be there. If you didn't want to be there for some good reason, you didn't have to be. No excuses. Stop your complaining. Get out if you don't like it.
Things aren't always as simple as you like to make them out to be, OM. Remember, too, that apparently your experience (and Galen's) are in the minority here.
I was pretty "waffle-y" in my involvement when I first got involved. I didn't like the micro-management of the person "undersheperding" me through PFAL, but I liked getting to SEE the man I had only listened to previously, so I put up with it.
I didn't much care for the people who were hosting the class, they seemed cold, regimented and annoyed with us coming to their house every night. But I wanted to hear the class again and this time it was on video.
I didn't much care for most of the people in the class. They didn't even know where the books of the Bible were and I suspect that some of them couldn't read. (Yes, I was that shallow) But it was just 3 weeks long and I could put up with that.
I didn't like feeling obligated to go witnessing or to give my money to them, but I really liked my HFCs and they filled a "parental" void that I had at the time since my parents were so far away.
I did quit going for a while but then I was devastated by something that happened in my life and called my HFC who handled me with loving kid gloves. She was the only adult I really knew and trusted in my town. (I was only about 22 years old). So, I started going back to fellowship, more consistently at first.
I felt ignorant and stupid because I wasn't an AC grad and I really had no desire to be, but I hung around because I didn't really have anything better to do and I was learning and liking the teachings in the fellowship.
The tapes from hq were boring and, as, craig got more and more obnoxious they were worse than boring and I started feeling obligated to try to live up to the standards he was teaching about. I started skipping meetings again.
They started coming by my house unannounced; calling me all the time on the phone....basically harassing me, but I was too nice to do or say anything to them about it. Then I got moved to another fellowship. I met a guy who seemed to really like me and want to help me "be a better person".
We started seeing each other and even then I was hesitant because he was so much more involved than I was, but I thought "it was the right thing to do". I've already written about the heartbreak and control during my wedding planning and ceremony so i won't go into that again, but suffice it to say that by the time we had been married 1 year I was effen miserable.
Every minute of our day if we weren't at work we were expected to be doing something for TWI. Just finding time to go to the grocery store, fix dinner and wash clothes was difficult. The pressure to perform, be better, take classes, serve on class crews, give more money, witness to more people, pray with your prayer partner every morning..... It was overwhelming and it WAS NOT FUN!
No, I don't really have many "fond memories". I was either too nice to stick up for myself and then too blinded to how miserable I really was and then married and too committed to give up that commitment for some stupid group of people. I spent 5 miserable years fighting for my marriage. I was not happy in the least with TWI or being in TWI, but I did love my husband very much and so it was worth it to me. Now I can stand with my head held high because I did everything I could to keep my commitment and I have no remorse or guilt about getting divorced and out of TWI.
It's just not easy to pinpoint exactly why I stayed and kept coming back or how/when I realized that I was so miserable. I just know that in hindsight it was pretty much all the time.
Sorry for such a long rant. I guess I'm in the "stupid" category and it smarts quite a bit. ;)-->
I suppose that for some the benefits of personal profit enables them to conveniently dismiss the damage wrought to others......
quote:
Hmmm rather than profit, for many of us it could have been termed FEAR!!!
There's no question in my mind that incidents of damage did occur. I don't think anyone would deny this. The question is, what keeps folks coming back 5, 10, 15, 20, 30 years, especially folks who assert incidents of damage. Fear? I don't know. Animals do not react that way. In perilous situations, animals will retreat. They will avoid. So I don't buy the fear excuse, except perhaps in the mentally disturbed who might not be able to make decisions on their own.
I think quite a number of us did that sort of thing. We got real fired up by some teaching or other, or some person or other, or maybe by some class or other and - in a fit of religious zeal - went off to tilt at windmills, er, to fight for the Lord!
Personally, after sorta just hanging out with the local twigites for 5 or 6 years, I got real excited about really doing something for God after hearing Johnny Townsend give a "W.O.W. Promo" teaching. I decided that I wouldn't just be hearing about what victories people were winning for God, but, by golly, I was gonna go to the "front lines" myself!
So I quit my job (a top management position in a growing roofing contracting firm), sold my hobby farm (six-acre tract with a house, barn and 4 fenced acres), cut ties with my family and friends, and set off for my first (of many) R.O.A.s.
So then, after being enveloped into the true Wayfer lifestyle - i.e., living with a bunch of strangers who you may or may not like, living in a town you've never heard of before and don't know a single soul in, having little or no savings and no stable employment so you have to adopt of lifestyle of self-imposed poverty, and, YOU HAVE NOTHING TO GO BACK TO BECAUSE YOU'VE ALREADY TORCHED YOUR RELATIONSHIPS WITH EVERYONE IN YOU LIFE IN ORDER TO "BE YOUR BEST FOR GOD".
So then, there I was, more or less stuck with serving out my W.O.W. year and then trying forever thereafter to somehow make my life the wonderful example of deliverance and abundance that I'd come to believe was possible only through adherance to WayWorld dictates.
It took a long time to realize the obvious. Thankfully LoyBoy came along and eradicated any doubt that TWIdom was a pathetic sham from the gitgo.
If only he'd come to prominence earlier, the damage he could have alleviated...
Originally posted by oldiesman: So I don't buy the fear excuse, except perhaps in the mentally disturbed who might not be able to make decisions on their own.
You know what? You don't have to "buy" this. No one is trying to sell you anything.
You are acting like yours is the only opinion that matters, and the only right one. Come on, "mentally disturbed"?
The blinders that you have on render your opinions completely irrelevant.
Your lack of empathy renders your posts completely heartless.
Your heartlessness and irrelevance render your posts absolutely meaningless - they are as a clanging cymbal, or windchimes, just a bunch of noise.
George, I hadn't thought about that burn the bridges nonsense for years. I had "torched" everything too- and thought it was the will of the Lord.. How true- I had NOWHERE to go- and the fear was indeed, very real.
The question is, what keeps folks coming back 5, 10, 15, 20, 30 years, especially folks who assert incidents of damage. Fear? I don't know. Animals do not react that way. In perilous situations, animals will retreat. They will avoid. So I don't buy the fear excuse, except perhaps in the mentally disturbed who might not be able to make decisions on their own.
OM, animals do not have reasoning and rationalization capabilities and to compare people with animals is rather crass.
Calling people mentally disturbed is even worse and your lack of heart, empathy and desire to even show an ounce of compassion prevents you from understanding anything.
I'm getting the feeling that you must be a very bitter, very lonely man and always will be. I feel terribly sorry for any kids that you might have because to me you seem to fit the classic TWIt definition of without natural affection. In which case, you would be much better of TWIt-ville. Tell me where you are located and I'll find a fellowship for you. I'm sure they would love to have you back.
Just because you don't understand or happen to disagree with something doesn't mean that you're right. It's just darn dangerous to think that way. If you were seeking to genuinely understand many of us would be happy to "discuss" things with you, but if all you can do is attack, ridicule and insult - just keep your fingers still.
Originally posted by oldiesman: So I don't buy the fear excuse, except perhaps in the mentally disturbed who might not be able to make decisions on their own.
I may have been REALLY, REALLY stupid- but I think that "mentally disturbed" may be going a little too far.
Oldies- I notice when they kicked your rear out of the "program"- apparently you had a place to go. Many, many others did not have that little "luxury". Imagine yourself out in the middle of nowhere, and nowhere to go. Imagine yourself being stuck on a bus, no friends, the "friends" you had now hate you with a passion- being shipped back to only God knows where- perhaps the fear is a little more real than you are willing to admit.
Those sons-of-a-bitches did do this to folk, on a regular basis.
Even here we were told not to help people that were "no longer with da vey"- that they were not worth the effort- that they were not worthy to breath the same air.
Motivation with fear was very real, and very effective. I agree with George- without Loy, I'd still be in that stink-hole. When he really got into the real irrational rants- he lost some control. Even stupid people can figure out some stuff..
Those of us who loved TWI so much that we went into the Corps ... were pretty much trapped.
Schwaigers, you saw profit and godliness in remaining faithful in twi so you went into the Corps, a commitment of your choice. You stood on that commitment, which is admirable. This is something to be proud of, especially when you find out later that some leaders of ours weren't as honest and circumspect as we thought.
I'd say commitment is a reason folks stayed a long time, as well. The commitment itself, wanting to be a faithful servant of Jesus Christ, has it's own rewards, especially in the midst of unpleasant situations.
"I was pretty "waffle-y" in my involvement when I first got involved. I didn't like the micro-management of the person "undersheperding" me through PFAL, but I liked getting to SEE the man I had only listened to previously, so I put up with it.
I didn't much care for the people who were hosting the class, they seemed cold, regimented and annoyed with us coming to their house every night. But I wanted to hear the class again and this time it was on video.
I didn't much care for most of the people in the class. They didn't even know where the books of the Bible were and I suspect that some of them couldn't read. (Yes, I was that shallow) But it was just 3 weeks long and I could put up with that."
Wow an entirely different introduction to a ministry.
I was witnessed to and taken to a public 'Ex'. I signed and paid, then I had to go to sea.
Next time in port, found the guys [a WOW family fresh on the field] offering the class and found when it would start.
Wait, wait, wait; finally they started a PFAL class. This one was going to run and complete right before my next patrol. So I attended the class and I enjoyed it. I did not know anyone there.
Then I went to sea. During which I read the collateral books.
Next time in port, I went back to the WOW home where PFAL had been run and got the schedule for the next meeting. [as it turned out these were branch meetings]. I went to a couple branch meetings, and was told about the WOW program and WC, when someone finally asked me what Twig I was 'in'. Then followed a conversation explaining to me what 'Twig' was and who had them.
Then I went out to sea again, but this time was another beleiver on my boat.
Next time in port, the WOWs were gone but I went with the other guy from my boat and we found a Twig. Eventually went to intermediate, and the rest.
But real soon after that I was thrown out anyway. :-)
Oldies said: The commitment itself, wanting to be a faithful servant of Jesus Christ, has it's own rewards, especially in the midst of unpleasant situations.
I know that we were taught that....and that is yet another reason that many of us put up with so much crap ....sadly though....that teaching as far as I can discern, is sheer speculation and hopefull thinking, really nothing more than a means of consoling ourselves when we were being vilely treated....
Calling people mentally disturbed is even worse and your lack of heart, empathy and desire to even show an ounce of compassion prevents you from understanding anything.
Belle, you misunderstood my post, you and Mr. Hammeroni, I didn't call anyone mentally disturbed. In fact, I think the opposite. Mentally disturbed people cannot reason and make decisions on their own (that was the definition of mentally disturbed I meant in that comment). If I really thought folks were mentally disturbed, I'd show empathy and compassion for that sad state of affairs. Of course you folks aren't mentally disturbed. Mentally disturbed folks wouldn't have the cognition to complain about twi all the time.
I remember burning the bridges, being taught that God would honor my commitment and believing....
Geeze o pete, I did that time and again, and *survived* ....but there were days without food...there were long periods of time that I could not afford the gas for my car ....
Went without asthma meds and suffered horribly.
Gave up loved ones and hobbies.....
But by golly, I was committed to God and Jesus and the ministry that taught me the word....
I gotta tell you that the only tangable rewards I ever saw from that *commitment* .... was when I finally stopped acting so stupid.
Of course you folks aren't mentally disturbed. Mentally disturbed folks wouldn't have the cognition to complain about twi all the time.
You don't let up do you OM. You are relentless. You remind me of some those leaders I new back in TWI who no matter what was said, no matter how much you were crying, sobbing, reduced to nothing,...they insisted on kicking you some more. You see, they weren't affected by your display of emotions, it was the WORD that was at stake!
Beware what you approve. You may become what you despised. :(-->
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Interesting Oak...I guess I'll have to think about that one.... can I say all of the above?
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Ham
If I have to wear that one, so be it, heh heh.
But I don't think its really as much a matter of being stupid, but numb. Numb after a couple hundred or so compromises to have the "priviledge" to get the "truth". I think after a while, my eyes were just plain glazed over.
I think they played the good guy/bad buy scheme, and it worked- just a matter of applied psychology..
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oldiesman
But I vote for the idea that there must have been "profit" in it, otherwise why would folks stay 5-30 years?
One example: my place of employment is at times, unpleasant to me. I keep coming back though. Why? It's profitable in some way. It adds something profitable to my life that otherwise I wouldn't have. I receive some benefit from it.
I could go search for another job but I am satisfied with being here, even though it's not perfect by any means.
Also, human beings tend not to want to be in hurtful and distressful situations, and usually back off from them if they can. Therefore most (I say most, not all) folks could have left twi much sooner than they did, if things were as bad as some assert.
Just one example of twi being profitable that speaks volumes to me was Jim Doop's experience, and his return to twi after being devastated in California. I suppose he could have walked away in CA, but he came back to coordinate Maine. Now why did he do that if things were so terrible around twi? Must have been something profitable happening, no?
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rascal
Hmmm rather than profit, for many of us it could have been termed FEAR!!!
FEAR that there would be dire consequences if we left the ministry that taught us God`s word..
FEAR of the wrath of leadership that would descend upon us and consecquent face meltings to be endured if disobediance were incur...
FEAR that we wouldda been posessed without the nurture of the fellowship of like minded believers.
FEAR that if we left that our family members and friends would view us as spiritually unsavory characters.
FEAR that God wouldn`t spit in our direction if we left.
FEAR of being a dissapointment to God the creator of the heavenlies and our bretheren in the household.
I suppose that for some the benefits of personal profit enables them to conveniently dismiss the damage wrought to others......
Too bad so sad for the people destroyed.....
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outandabout
Why stay if you're miserable?
I was miserable for about 7 years before I finally split.
In my case, I was corps and we were to be douloses, and staked out for God. We had made a COMMITMENT.
When I finally saw that most of that was man's doing and not God's, I saw the light and LEFT.
But it took that long, and it took some other people seeing the light as well. It's contagious.
That's why TWI likes to keep the lid on the "remnant" that they still have.
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rascal
I have had to ponder what made me/us vulnerable to manipulation into staying involved for so long in spite of the misery endured.
I think that there were many of us who were young teens, many of us (at least my friends) being from broken homes or bad situations .... that this might have been a huge factor in why the feeling of *belonging* to something important was so seductive.
I think personally that I needed to feel like I was a part of something that was fighting evil....somehow it made me feel as if I was a good person...that I was important because I belonged was on the front lins for God.....
I try hard to analyse my mindset so that I can be darn sure not to be vulnerable to the next scam that comes along.
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Schwaigers
Interesting topic. Two thoughts:
1. Those of us who loved TWI so much that we went into the Corps ... were pretty much trapped. The little home fellowships were so wonderful, so we figured it would be even more wonderful rubbing shoulders with the guys who led this outfit. We wanted to be like them, so we could extend this wonderful-ness to everyone. Instead, once we settled in at a root locale, we saw how deceitful these leaders were, and we saw how the peons in those sweet fellowships back home were being used. But by then it was too late. We had sold everything (to be out-of-debt, as required); convinced our kids it was the right thing to do - to relocate - leaving friends, pets, schools, etc behind; and we had burned our own bridges back to non-Way friends and family. Do you see the trap? Oh, you could pry yourself out of it, but it would be very painful.
For us, we didn't have the guts to do that. We kept rationalizing that God would honor our intentions, and one day we could teach and live the Word like we had dreamed ... if we would just play the game and get through Corps training.
So, because we wouldn't deliver ourselves, God arranged it for us, and had us Marked and Avoided. We will always be grateful for that. But at the time ... it was a nightmare - homeless, jobless, destitude. No kidding. But we survived, and we're just fine now.
2. What was it they taught us? Something like ... the closeness to the real thing is how the fake thing succeeds ... what was it? Not enough coffee yet - I can't remember. Anyhow, TWI was real close to being genuinely good. But it wasn't really good at all. In fact, it was horribly bad. I have heard it has changed. I pray this is true. -Pat
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rascal
I think that THIS little jewel needs to be matted and framed and hung on the wall around here.
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Belle
Things aren't always as simple as you like to make them out to be, OM. Remember, too, that apparently your experience (and Galen's) are in the minority here.
I was pretty "waffle-y" in my involvement when I first got involved. I didn't like the micro-management of the person "undersheperding" me through PFAL, but I liked getting to SEE the man I had only listened to previously, so I put up with it.
I didn't much care for the people who were hosting the class, they seemed cold, regimented and annoyed with us coming to their house every night. But I wanted to hear the class again and this time it was on video.
I didn't much care for most of the people in the class. They didn't even know where the books of the Bible were and I suspect that some of them couldn't read. (Yes, I was that shallow) But it was just 3 weeks long and I could put up with that.
I didn't like feeling obligated to go witnessing or to give my money to them, but I really liked my HFCs and they filled a "parental" void that I had at the time since my parents were so far away.
I did quit going for a while but then I was devastated by something that happened in my life and called my HFC who handled me with loving kid gloves. She was the only adult I really knew and trusted in my town. (I was only about 22 years old). So, I started going back to fellowship, more consistently at first.
I felt ignorant and stupid because I wasn't an AC grad and I really had no desire to be, but I hung around because I didn't really have anything better to do and I was learning and liking the teachings in the fellowship.
The tapes from hq were boring and, as, craig got more and more obnoxious they were worse than boring and I started feeling obligated to try to live up to the standards he was teaching about. I started skipping meetings again.
They started coming by my house unannounced; calling me all the time on the phone....basically harassing me, but I was too nice to do or say anything to them about it. Then I got moved to another fellowship. I met a guy who seemed to really like me and want to help me "be a better person".
We started seeing each other and even then I was hesitant because he was so much more involved than I was, but I thought "it was the right thing to do". I've already written about the heartbreak and control during my wedding planning and ceremony so i won't go into that again, but suffice it to say that by the time we had been married 1 year I was effen miserable.
Every minute of our day if we weren't at work we were expected to be doing something for TWI. Just finding time to go to the grocery store, fix dinner and wash clothes was difficult. The pressure to perform, be better, take classes, serve on class crews, give more money, witness to more people, pray with your prayer partner every morning..... It was overwhelming and it WAS NOT FUN!
No, I don't really have many "fond memories". I was either too nice to stick up for myself and then too blinded to how miserable I really was and then married and too committed to give up that commitment for some stupid group of people. I spent 5 miserable years fighting for my marriage. I was not happy in the least with TWI or being in TWI, but I did love my husband very much and so it was worth it to me. Now I can stand with my head held high because I did everything I could to keep my commitment and I have no remorse or guilt about getting divorced and out of TWI.
It's just not easy to pinpoint exactly why I stayed and kept coming back or how/when I realized that I was so miserable. I just know that in hindsight it was pretty much all the time.
Sorry for such a long rant. I guess I'm in the "stupid" category and it smarts quite a bit.
;)-->
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oldiesman
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George Aar
Ah, yes, the "burned bridges".
I think quite a number of us did that sort of thing. We got real fired up by some teaching or other, or some person or other, or maybe by some class or other and - in a fit of religious zeal - went off to tilt at windmills, er, to fight for the Lord!
Personally, after sorta just hanging out with the local twigites for 5 or 6 years, I got real excited about really doing something for God after hearing Johnny Townsend give a "W.O.W. Promo" teaching. I decided that I wouldn't just be hearing about what victories people were winning for God, but, by golly, I was gonna go to the "front lines" myself!
So I quit my job (a top management position in a growing roofing contracting firm), sold my hobby farm (six-acre tract with a house, barn and 4 fenced acres), cut ties with my family and friends, and set off for my first (of many) R.O.A.s.
So then, after being enveloped into the true Wayfer lifestyle - i.e., living with a bunch of strangers who you may or may not like, living in a town you've never heard of before and don't know a single soul in, having little or no savings and no stable employment so you have to adopt of lifestyle of self-imposed poverty, and, YOU HAVE NOTHING TO GO BACK TO BECAUSE YOU'VE ALREADY TORCHED YOUR RELATIONSHIPS WITH EVERYONE IN YOU LIFE IN ORDER TO "BE YOUR BEST FOR GOD".
So then, there I was, more or less stuck with serving out my W.O.W. year and then trying forever thereafter to somehow make my life the wonderful example of deliverance and abundance that I'd come to believe was possible only through adherance to WayWorld dictates.
It took a long time to realize the obvious. Thankfully LoyBoy came along and eradicated any doubt that TWIdom was a pathetic sham from the gitgo.
If only he'd come to prominence earlier, the damage he could have alleviated...
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Ham
But George! The food was good- well, kind of, sometimes at least, heh heh.
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Steve!
You know what? You don't have to "buy" this. No one is trying to sell you anything.
You are acting like yours is the only opinion that matters, and the only right one. Come on, "mentally disturbed"?
The blinders that you have on render your opinions completely irrelevant.
Your lack of empathy renders your posts completely heartless.
Your heartlessness and irrelevance render your posts absolutely meaningless - they are as a clanging cymbal, or windchimes, just a bunch of noise.
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Ham
George, I hadn't thought about that burn the bridges nonsense for years. I had "torched" everything too- and thought it was the will of the Lord.. How true- I had NOWHERE to go- and the fear was indeed, very real.
They had us by the "privates"- no question.
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Belle
OM, animals do not have reasoning and rationalization capabilities and to compare people with animals is rather crass.
Calling people mentally disturbed is even worse and your lack of heart, empathy and desire to even show an ounce of compassion prevents you from understanding anything.
I'm getting the feeling that you must be a very bitter, very lonely man and always will be. I feel terribly sorry for any kids that you might have because to me you seem to fit the classic TWIt definition of without natural affection. In which case, you would be much better of TWIt-ville. Tell me where you are located and I'll find a fellowship for you. I'm sure they would love to have you back.
Just because you don't understand or happen to disagree with something doesn't mean that you're right. It's just darn dangerous to think that way. If you were seeking to genuinely understand many of us would be happy to "discuss" things with you, but if all you can do is attack, ridicule and insult - just keep your fingers still.
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Ham
I may have been REALLY, REALLY stupid- but I think that "mentally disturbed" may be going a little too far.
Oldies- I notice when they kicked your rear out of the "program"- apparently you had a place to go. Many, many others did not have that little "luxury". Imagine yourself out in the middle of nowhere, and nowhere to go. Imagine yourself being stuck on a bus, no friends, the "friends" you had now hate you with a passion- being shipped back to only God knows where- perhaps the fear is a little more real than you are willing to admit.
Those sons-of-a-bitches did do this to folk, on a regular basis.
Even here we were told not to help people that were "no longer with da vey"- that they were not worth the effort- that they were not worthy to breath the same air.
Motivation with fear was very real, and very effective. I agree with George- without Loy, I'd still be in that stink-hole. When he really got into the real irrational rants- he lost some control. Even stupid people can figure out some stuff..
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oldiesman
I'd say commitment is a reason folks stayed a long time, as well. The commitment itself, wanting to be a faithful servant of Jesus Christ, has it's own rewards, especially in the midst of unpleasant situations.
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Galen
Belle:
"I was pretty "waffle-y" in my involvement when I first got involved. I didn't like the micro-management of the person "undersheperding" me through PFAL, but I liked getting to SEE the man I had only listened to previously, so I put up with it.
I didn't much care for the people who were hosting the class, they seemed cold, regimented and annoyed with us coming to their house every night. But I wanted to hear the class again and this time it was on video.
I didn't much care for most of the people in the class. They didn't even know where the books of the Bible were and I suspect that some of them couldn't read. (Yes, I was that shallow) But it was just 3 weeks long and I could put up with that."
Wow an entirely different introduction to a ministry.
I was witnessed to and taken to a public 'Ex'. I signed and paid, then I had to go to sea.
Next time in port, found the guys [a WOW family fresh on the field] offering the class and found when it would start.
Wait, wait, wait; finally they started a PFAL class. This one was going to run and complete right before my next patrol. So I attended the class and I enjoyed it. I did not know anyone there.
Then I went to sea. During which I read the collateral books.
Next time in port, I went back to the WOW home where PFAL had been run and got the schedule for the next meeting. [as it turned out these were branch meetings]. I went to a couple branch meetings, and was told about the WOW program and WC, when someone finally asked me what Twig I was 'in'. Then followed a conversation explaining to me what 'Twig' was and who had them.
Then I went out to sea again, but this time was another beleiver on my boat.
Next time in port, the WOWs were gone but I went with the other guy from my boat and we found a Twig. Eventually went to intermediate, and the rest.
But real soon after that I was thrown out anyway. :-)
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rascal
Oldies said: The commitment itself, wanting to be a faithful servant of Jesus Christ, has it's own rewards, especially in the midst of unpleasant situations.
I know that we were taught that....and that is yet another reason that many of us put up with so much crap ....sadly though....that teaching as far as I can discern, is sheer speculation and hopefull thinking, really nothing more than a means of consoling ourselves when we were being vilely treated....
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Ham
Yep- a NIGHTMARE. But life was just so wonderful back in the "good old days"..
Homeless- jobless- destitute- what part of that don't you understand, Oldies?
Others were not so "lucky".
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oldiesman
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Belle
I stand behind my statement 100%, OM.
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rascal
I remember burning the bridges, being taught that God would honor my commitment and believing....
Geeze o pete, I did that time and again, and *survived* ....but there were days without food...there were long periods of time that I could not afford the gas for my car ....
Went without asthma meds and suffered horribly.
Gave up loved ones and hobbies.....
But by golly, I was committed to God and Jesus and the ministry that taught me the word....
I gotta tell you that the only tangable rewards I ever saw from that *commitment* .... was when I finally stopped acting so stupid.
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A la prochaine
OM,
You don't let up do you OM. You are relentless. You remind me of some those leaders I new back in TWI who no matter what was said, no matter how much you were crying, sobbing, reduced to nothing,...they insisted on kicking you some more. You see, they weren't affected by your display of emotions, it was the WORD that was at stake!
Beware what you approve. You may become what you despised.
:(-->
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