I know a lot of Unitarians and for the most part they are very nice. Church for them seems to be more of a social event. In 1970-71 I was part of a youth group called LRY (libral Religious Youth) sponcered by the local Unitarian Church. Any and all religions were welcome and Atheism was a religion as far as they were concerned.
Of course you post is a little confusing, since the orginal usage of Unitarianism refered to a church that did not believe that Jesus Christ was God, but that he was the son of God. TWI is by that definition a Unitarian Church.
As you noted, they are very good compassionate people. Unfortunately, they don't claim to know all the answers so they get picked on as being wishy-washy. Lots of folks are more comfortable in churches that know for certain who's going to Heaven and who's not. :P-->
My experience with the Unitarian church (which I still attend) is definitely different than what I was used to as regards churches and religion. And it does seem like you get a dose of feeling like "Now what is it that you do believe in?"
And I came to realize why it's like that, and I can appreciate the reasoning. Basically it's where the church has no Official or Orthodox dogma or doctrine as to what God is all about. They do have general principles as far as the means of achieving furtherance of personal/spiritual growth and betterment of society, but they aren't Law and the specifics what and how of what God (or anything in the spiritual world), they leave that up to you. I've heard one Unitarian minister state that, contrary to the popular viewpoint that Unitarians don't view religious or spiritual beliefs as being important, she said that they are indeed important. So important that they leave it up to you to be the final decision maker as to what you'll believe.
Which is basically what it comes down to anyway, right? You're going to be the one who figures out, realizes, and make the final decision as to what views/beliefs you'll hold deep within. Plus it's more where they learn and share what they have learned to be true or valid, regardless of what religious/secular source they may get it from.
Which I find to clearly be a *refreshing* change from the dogmatic, "This is what The Church believes and you are expected to fall in line with those beliefs, or else goodbye!" attitude of more fundamentalist churches, even if a sizeable number of those selfsame churches aren't that anal as to the enforcement of that mentality.
And that change does take some getting used to at first.
Perhaps it's 'too different' as that goes for some. Perhaps some people want/'need' more structure/authority in their religion so that they feel comfortable with it, or to feel that it can be called a religion. ..... I don't. Been there, done that, burnt the "Bow down before Orthodoxy!" t-shirt, be it made by TWI or any mainline church.
I now trust and respect my own brain and individual conscience to do that anymore.
My first impresstion, they are not sure of what they REALLY believe. They believe that God is, or God isn't. Or they believe God is actually nature. Or the earth, the sky, etc.. No miracles, truth not necessarily found in the bible, and that it was a myth no better or worse than the stories about Hercules
Must of been a Universalist Unitarian church, eh? As opposed to a Biblical Unitarian one.
Lots of my neighbors go for the *God is Nature* concept. They aren't church-goers, but it sounds like they would fit right in with the UU group.
My therapist is a Unitarian Universalist and has a Doctorate of Theology from Berkely. His background has been invaluable in helping him understand cults and what TWI was like. He knows a lot about a lot of different religions and belief systems.
I think they're famous for saying, "We don't care who you worship, just worship." It seems to be a group of very spiritual people who don't think they have the corner market on the truth and are willing to learn from anyone and any religion.
Yep.. I kind of got the impression that they left the concept of worship up to the individual. In a strange way I was impressed that they didn't offer the moon in a twelve part series the moment I walked in the door.
One old guy there said, "so this is the first time you've been to a univeral universalist church.... most people don't like it" !!!
I know that around here the UU church is pagan friendly, and I know some pagans that attend because they have a very good comparative religions Sunday school for kids.
The UU church here is always involved in our Summer Solstice festival, along with the sherrifs dept to keep all the scary protesting evangelicals away, heehee.
A couple of my kids wanted to join a church, so I took them to a few different churches over the period of a few weeks. We met some very nice people, sat through some services that were only mildly annoying, and had an all around ok time.
Thank the dieties that they now have made some more good friends and told me this past week that they no longer wish to find a church to join.
Whewwwww!!!!!
Not that I'm against church-going...but I gotta admit...I was so very BORED and while I would have gone to church every Sunday if my kids felt they needed that....I'm so very GLAD not to have to be BORED every week!!!!
Interesting though.. now I finally remember- the same denomination here, it may have been even the same church, about ten years ago maybe- they had a highly advertised seminar about "Shaminism in North America" and the fundamentalist groups got SO upset.
They acted SO suprised, outraged, and even flabbergasted- that their "brethren" were even capable of doing this.
From what I had read previously about the group, I could hardly see how anybody could be "suprised" heh heh. The sign in front of the church says it is a LIBERAL church- yes, in large capital letters. Not to say it in a mean way, but liberal is, liberal does- I honestly don't see how the local ministers would be so "caught off guard" or something..
This group seems to be pagan friendly likewise.
I don't have any real plans of joining or anything, but- if they let me run nekkid in the spring solstice or something, I might consider, heh heh.
Oh yes, money. There was a SMALL note in the program saying, "yes, we do need some to do the stuff we do, but refrain from passing the basket during the service, if you wish to give, stuff a little in the box in the back"- that was a little different.
I had heard about Unitarians somewhere before and didn't think too much about it, but after reading this thread phoned a local fellowship yesterday and am going to attend a meeting next Sunday.
The person on the phone asked me what I had heard about their beliefs. Aftger I answered she gave me their web site and invited me next week.
The reason UU is intriguing to be is they don't offer a belief system, in opposition to every church I have visited. I have tried to adopt all their different doctrines but many conflict so much, and can't figure out which is correct. Compare Baptists and Roman Catholics. Each believes the other is going to hell so Which is correct?
UU believes you adopt your own set of beliefs. I like what I heard so will check it out.
Yep.. on a practical level, I really have nothing bad to say about them. They seem to be reluctant, in my opinion, to fight or debate about anything religious- they seem to dislike the efforts of anybody that would want to dictate their beliefs, or lack therof..
I used to think that the Unitarian motto could be "One God...at most", but now that I hear that they're pagan friendly, I'll have to scrap that one :D-->
Well, this one kind of skipped the idea of learning from Jewish and Christian based spirituality- went straight for earth based spirituality. I saw nothing that could be labelled as Christian or Jewish. Other than maybe the basic idea of doing unto others the right thing..
I don't know if such a thing is possible, but it looked like purely secular based religion to me..
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Keith
I know a lot of Unitarians and for the most part they are very nice. Church for them seems to be more of a social event. In 1970-71 I was part of a youth group called LRY (libral Religious Youth) sponcered by the local Unitarian Church. Any and all religions were welcome and Atheism was a religion as far as they were concerned.
Of course you post is a little confusing, since the orginal usage of Unitarianism refered to a church that did not believe that Jesus Christ was God, but that he was the son of God. TWI is by that definition a Unitarian Church.
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Sudo
Mr. Hammaroni,
As you noted, they are very good compassionate people. Unfortunately, they don't claim to know all the answers so they get picked on as being wishy-washy. Lots of folks are more comfortable in churches that know for certain who's going to Heaven and who's not.
:P-->
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dmiller
Shhhhhhhhhh!!!! Don't let twi hear that. They'll *step up* the attack on believers, if they do.
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GarthP2000
My experience with the Unitarian church (which I still attend) is definitely different than what I was used to as regards churches and religion. And it does seem like you get a dose of feeling like "Now what is it that you do believe in?"
And I came to realize why it's like that, and I can appreciate the reasoning. Basically it's where the church has no Official or Orthodox dogma or doctrine as to what God is all about. They do have general principles as far as the means of achieving furtherance of personal/spiritual growth and betterment of society, but they aren't Law and the specifics what and how of what God (or anything in the spiritual world), they leave that up to you. I've heard one Unitarian minister state that, contrary to the popular viewpoint that Unitarians don't view religious or spiritual beliefs as being important, she said that they are indeed important. So important that they leave it up to you to be the final decision maker as to what you'll believe.
Which is basically what it comes down to anyway, right? You're going to be the one who figures out, realizes, and make the final decision as to what views/beliefs you'll hold deep within. Plus it's more where they learn and share what they have learned to be true or valid, regardless of what religious/secular source they may get it from.
Which I find to clearly be a *refreshing* change from the dogmatic, "This is what The Church believes and you are expected to fall in line with those beliefs, or else goodbye!" attitude of more fundamentalist churches, even if a sizeable number of those selfsame churches aren't that anal as to the enforcement of that mentality.
And that change does take some getting used to at first.
Perhaps it's 'too different' as that goes for some. Perhaps some people want/'need' more structure/authority in their religion so that they feel comfortable with it, or to feel that it can be called a religion. ..... I don't. Been there, done that, burnt the "Bow down before Orthodoxy!" t-shirt, be it made by TWI or any mainline church.
I now trust and respect my own brain and individual conscience to do that anymore.
Anywho, that's my experience.
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dmiller
Must of been a Universalist Unitarian church, eh? As opposed to a Biblical Unitarian one.
Lots of my neighbors go for the *God is Nature* concept. They aren't church-goers, but it sounds like they would fit right in with the UU group.
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Belle
My therapist is a Unitarian Universalist and has a Doctorate of Theology from Berkely. His background has been invaluable in helping him understand cults and what TWI was like. He knows a lot about a lot of different religions and belief systems.
I think they're famous for saying, "We don't care who you worship, just worship." It seems to be a group of very spiritual people who don't think they have the corner market on the truth and are willing to learn from anyone and any religion.
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excathedra
when you join, are you then a unit ?
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GarthP2000
No, I think you would be a 'Unitar'.
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Ham
Yep.. I kind of got the impression that they left the concept of worship up to the individual. In a strange way I was impressed that they didn't offer the moon in a twelve part series the moment I walked in the door.
One old guy there said, "so this is the first time you've been to a univeral universalist church.... most people don't like it" !!!
Funny, but brutally honest..
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Ham
They seemed to be pretty smart though..
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Stayed Too Long
Frank Zappa procreated a moon unit.
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Bramble
I know that around here the UU church is pagan friendly, and I know some pagans that attend because they have a very good comparative religions Sunday school for kids.
The UU church here is always involved in our Summer Solstice festival, along with the sherrifs dept to keep all the scary protesting evangelicals away, heehee.
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Cindy!
A couple of my kids wanted to join a church, so I took them to a few different churches over the period of a few weeks. We met some very nice people, sat through some services that were only mildly annoying, and had an all around ok time.
Thank the dieties that they now have made some more good friends and told me this past week that they no longer wish to find a church to join.
Whewwwww!!!!!
Not that I'm against church-going...but I gotta admit...I was so very BORED and while I would have gone to church every Sunday if my kids felt they needed that....I'm so very GLAD not to have to be BORED every week!!!!
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Steve!
One phrase sums up the Unitarian Church nicely - "to every man his own truth, and his own god within".
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Ham
Interesting though.. now I finally remember- the same denomination here, it may have been even the same church, about ten years ago maybe- they had a highly advertised seminar about "Shaminism in North America" and the fundamentalist groups got SO upset.
They acted SO suprised, outraged, and even flabbergasted- that their "brethren" were even capable of doing this.
From what I had read previously about the group, I could hardly see how anybody could be "suprised" heh heh. The sign in front of the church says it is a LIBERAL church- yes, in large capital letters. Not to say it in a mean way, but liberal is, liberal does- I honestly don't see how the local ministers would be so "caught off guard" or something..
This group seems to be pagan friendly likewise.
I don't have any real plans of joining or anything, but- if they let me run nekkid in the spring solstice or something, I might consider, heh heh.
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Ham
Oh yes, money. There was a SMALL note in the program saying, "yes, we do need some to do the stuff we do, but refrain from passing the basket during the service, if you wish to give, stuff a little in the box in the back"- that was a little different.
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Bramble
Heehee--the only nekkid group in my area requires study(even written stuff) and initation and memorization etc. They are Organized, Serious nekked.
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CoolWaters
Are they units? LMAO!!!!!!!!!!
Unitars? Tee Hee! (Anything like Avatars, btw?
;)--> )
Steve! quoted it nicely...for my tastes...TY Abi.
:D-->
Oh...Bramble...so start your own nekkid group...it's fun!!!
:D-->
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Ham
Sounds like just my kind of group, heh heh. Have to be serious about something, I suppose.
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Stayed Too Long
I had heard about Unitarians somewhere before and didn't think too much about it, but after reading this thread phoned a local fellowship yesterday and am going to attend a meeting next Sunday.
The person on the phone asked me what I had heard about their beliefs. Aftger I answered she gave me their web site and invited me next week.
The reason UU is intriguing to be is they don't offer a belief system, in opposition to every church I have visited. I have tried to adopt all their different doctrines but many conflict so much, and can't figure out which is correct. Compare Baptists and Roman Catholics. Each believes the other is going to hell so Which is correct?
UU believes you adopt your own set of beliefs. I like what I heard so will check it out.
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Ham
Yep.. on a practical level, I really have nothing bad to say about them. They seem to be reluctant, in my opinion, to fight or debate about anything religious- they seem to dislike the efforts of anybody that would want to dictate their beliefs, or lack therof..
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Oakspear
I used to think that the Unitarian motto could be "One God...at most", but now that I hear that they're pagan friendly, I'll have to scrap that one
:D-->
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Bramble
Oakspear--the Unitarian Universalist church in my area has a statement about learning from Christian, Jewish and earth based spirituality.
But I think there is also a Unitarian church, which isn't the same I'm sure!
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Ham
Well, this one kind of skipped the idea of learning from Jewish and Christian based spirituality- went straight for earth based spirituality. I saw nothing that could be labelled as Christian or Jewish. Other than maybe the basic idea of doing unto others the right thing..
I don't know if such a thing is possible, but it looked like purely secular based religion to me..
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