Second, I'm not sure what you believe or where you get your theology. So I am not sure whether to be offended, disgusted or continously perplexed.
Third, I know you have a lot of anti-Catholic hatred. So much, I think you need to go to God and have him help you forgive them for whatever wrong they committed against you regardless if they ever say they are sorry or not.
It's hard to discuss anything with you because you act like you're running the Inquisition. You cannot tolerate dissent.
"Since you believe that Mary is NOT the Mother of God, then you have to admit that the son of Mary is now dead, seeing that Mary is the mother of a mortal."
a. Mary is not the mother of G-d,
b. she is now dead so her son must be dead? I dont see that leap, at all. Please explain.
Mary is dead. Jesus did die. He later got up again and is now sitting on the Right hand of G-d, as both the Bible and PFAL told us.
Second, I'm not sure what you believe or where you get your theology. So I am not sure whether to be offended, disgusted or continously perplexed.
Third, I know you have a lot of anti-Catholic hatred. So much, I think you need to go to God and have him help you forgive them for whatever wrong they committed against you regardless if they ever say they are sorry or not.
It's hard to discuss anything with you because you act like you're running the Inquisition. You cannot tolerate dissent.
Because I'm a universalist, I have no problem with that. Because you believe in limited salvation, you on the other hand do have a problem with it. So who in the hell are you to give me such advice seeing you don't heed to it yourself?
Mary is dead. Jesus did die. He later got up again and is now sitting on the Right hand of G-d, as both the Bible and PFAL told us.
:-)
Galen, most universalists would actually agree with you believe it or not. However, I take the resurrection story as more an allegorical account rather than a factual one.
That is one area that Gary Amriault and myself would probably disagree.
It's hard to discuss anything with you because you act like you're running the Inquisition. You cannot tolerate dissent.
That's like the pot calling the kettle black. YOU my friend are walking more in the spirit of the Inquisition than I am. I cannot tolerate UNRIGHTEOUSNESS, SIN, and INJUSTICE. What's wrong with that? If God cannot tolerate them, then I have a right to intolerate them as well, since I am made in His image! If you share that intolerance with me, then why do you insist those things will never end? Just what do you exactly have to hope for? Why do you insist that Satan will reign forever in hell when God promises the absoulte destruction of all his works? Why do you insist on the endless torture of your (and God's) enemies? And you have the effrontery to say I'M the torquemada?
Friends, concerning the two natures of Christ, which this thread started out being about, I offer you the following, from the writings of Ephraim the Syrian, a fourth century Christian. I hope you find it edifying and enlightening, as I did.
"A Confession of the God Who Became Man In Jesus Christ the Lord: He who is from God, God the Word, the only begotten Son of the Father, of one essence with the Father, Being from Being, ineffably begotten of the Father without a mother before all ages--the very same is born in the last days to a daughter of men, to the Virgin Mary without a father. God is born incarnate, wearing flesh borrowed from her, having become man, which He was not, and remaining God, which He was, in order to save the world. And He is Christ, the Son of God, the only-begotten of the Father and the only begotten of His Mother.
I confess One and the Same as both perfect God and perfect Man, in two natures, united in one hypostasis or person, recognized as indivisibly, unconfusedly and unchangeably God Who was clothed in flesh, animated by an intelligent and rational soul, and came to resemble us in every way except sin.
One and the Same is earthly and heavenly, temporal and eternal, both with and without beginning, timeless and subject to time, created and uncreated, suffering and free of suffering, God and Man and perfect in both. One in two natures, as both Unitary."
Personally, I believe Jesus IS God. Which would mean that he must have all the attributes of God, and I believe the Bible shows that. It is too much to get into here on this thread, but two GREAT books I have read on the subject are , More than a Carpenter and Evidence That Demands a Verdict both by Josh McDowell.
The way I see it, if one believes in a Jesus that is of one nature (fully man), and another believes in a Jesus that is of two natures (fully God and fully man), how can both Jesuses save?
Also, one more thought - there are many people out in this world who are not nearly as intelligent as the folks posting on this thread (My goodness! y'all have my head hurting with all that Greek! :blink: Just kidding) Do we all think God really holds it against people who haven't delved into research as thoroughly as many of us have? Let's be honest - some folk are never gonna get that far. Some are illiterate, or at least much more childlike with their faith. I think God will honor that just fine, and as long as people keep seeking him and seeking to be closer to him - well that is how he designed us from the beginning - to have a relationship with him.
Oh, don't ANYone go reading The DaVinci Code. LOL That will just fuxk with you!!! (Just kidding. I found it fascinating fiction)
So there's my take. Not to say that I have a corner on the truth - I would NEVER do THAT again!!!! Learned that lesson the hard way from TWI.
Remember, God's promise: "And you shall seek me and find me, when you search for me with all your heart." - Jeremiah 29:13
Personally, I believe Jesus IS God. Which would mean that he must have all the attributes of God, and I believe the Bible shows that. It is too much to get into here on this thread, but two GREAT books I have read on the subject are , More than a Carpenter and Evidence That Demands a Verdict both by Josh McDowell.
The way I see it, if one believes in a Jesus that is of one nature (fully man), and another believes in a Jesus that is of two natures (fully God and fully man), how can both Jesuses save?
Also, one more thought - there are many people out in this world who are not nearly as intelligent as the folks posting on this thread (My goodness! y'all have my head hurting with all that Greek! :blink: Just kidding) Do we all think God really holds it against people who haven't delved into research as thoroughly as many of us have? Let's be honest - some folk are never gonna get that far. Some are illiterate, or at least much more childlike with their faith. I think God will honor that just fine, and as long as people keep seeking him and seeking to be closer to him - well that is how he designed us from the beginning - to have a relationship with him.
Oh, don't ANYone go reading The DaVinci Code. LOL That will just fuxk with you!!! (Just kidding. I found it fascinating fiction)
So there's my take. Not to say that I have a corner on the truth - I would NEVER do THAT again!!!! Learned that lesson the hard way from TWI.
Remember, God's promise: "And you shall seek me and find me, when you search for me with all your heart." - Jeremiah 29:13
Welcome karateka, you've been wonderful to jump right in. :)
And I agree with your thoughts on God honoring anyone who seeks Him. Intelligence and even life schooling isn't the parameter for being heard. My head hurts sometimes too when I try to keep up around here, but I don't read as much as I use to and may miss some of the less taxing as well. :unsure:
IMHO For Jesus Christ to be God then God worked thru him and therefore was "of" Jesus Christ. In the way Jesus Christ acted and spoke which would have to include his thoughts. He-God worked from within Jesus Christ is how I humbly feel it was. Including the limited abilities of being a man (yet not constrained except by His own will). And God could not die of course. So IMHO God would have had to allow His self to be bound by the laws of flesh and blood and His spiritual intercession IN FULL. He had to NOT force His spirit upon His son and make him do His will. His son had to take the action or how could he be tempted like as unto man?! IMHO.
Thanks Cathy. Your post reminded me of a scripture - I apologize for not putting more references in my post in the first place - but I work well with "stream of conscienceness" or adult ADD. LOL
I love the passage in the 2nd chapter of Phillipians:
(2:5)Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus, (2:6)Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God, (2:7)but made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men; (2:8) And, being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
(I am quoting from the New Schofield Study Bible - well, because it is the closest one to my computer :D )
As other references come to mind, I'll try to post them. God only has me recalling this for the moment, LOL - that is until I have my second cup of joe.
Cathy, the fact that we disagree - and I know there are at least two distinct camps here - is okay. I think healthy debate is grand in its own right, as it encourages digging, thinking, learning, growing. That is something that wasn't allowed in TWI - critical thinking.
Actually I've found that triune thinking is something I was raised with in the Nazarene church and didn't even know it. TWI was so adamantly against it I noticed that. :o But God being a part of Jesus Christ and the holy spirit is right on, I know it isn't that simple. But I've also found it isn't that complex either. Make sense? ;)
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def59
Well Chuck
First stop swearing, it does no good.
:D-->
Second, I'm not sure what you believe or where you get your theology. So I am not sure whether to be offended, disgusted or continously perplexed.
Third, I know you have a lot of anti-Catholic hatred. So much, I think you need to go to God and have him help you forgive them for whatever wrong they committed against you regardless if they ever say they are sorry or not.
It's hard to discuss anything with you because you act like you're running the Inquisition. You cannot tolerate dissent.
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Galen
CKnapp3:
"Since you believe that Mary is NOT the Mother of God, then you have to admit that the son of Mary is now dead, seeing that Mary is the mother of a mortal."
a. Mary is not the mother of G-d,
b. she is now dead so her son must be dead? I dont see that leap, at all. Please explain.
Mary is dead. Jesus did die. He later got up again and is now sitting on the Right hand of G-d, as both the Bible and PFAL told us.
:-)
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CKnapp3
Because I'm a universalist, I have no problem with that. Because you believe in limited salvation, you on the other hand do have a problem with it. So who in the hell are you to give me such advice seeing you don't heed to it yourself?
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CKnapp3
Galen, most universalists would actually agree with you believe it or not. However, I take the resurrection story as more an allegorical account rather than a factual one.
That is one area that Gary Amriault and myself would probably disagree.
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CKnapp3
That's like the pot calling the kettle black. YOU my friend are walking more in the spirit of the Inquisition than I am. I cannot tolerate UNRIGHTEOUSNESS, SIN, and INJUSTICE. What's wrong with that? If God cannot tolerate them, then I have a right to intolerate them as well, since I am made in His image! If you share that intolerance with me, then why do you insist those things will never end? Just what do you exactly have to hope for? Why do you insist that Satan will reign forever in hell when God promises the absoulte destruction of all his works? Why do you insist on the endless torture of your (and God's) enemies? And you have the effrontery to say I'M the torquemada?
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billy clyde
Friends, concerning the two natures of Christ, which this thread started out being about, I offer you the following, from the writings of Ephraim the Syrian, a fourth century Christian. I hope you find it edifying and enlightening, as I did.
"A Confession of the God Who Became Man In Jesus Christ the Lord: He who is from God, God the Word, the only begotten Son of the Father, of one essence with the Father, Being from Being, ineffably begotten of the Father without a mother before all ages--the very same is born in the last days to a daughter of men, to the Virgin Mary without a father. God is born incarnate, wearing flesh borrowed from her, having become man, which He was not, and remaining God, which He was, in order to save the world. And He is Christ, the Son of God, the only-begotten of the Father and the only begotten of His Mother.
I confess One and the Same as both perfect God and perfect Man, in two natures, united in one hypostasis or person, recognized as indivisibly, unconfusedly and unchangeably God Who was clothed in flesh, animated by an intelligent and rational soul, and came to resemble us in every way except sin.
One and the Same is earthly and heavenly, temporal and eternal, both with and without beginning, timeless and subject to time, created and uncreated, suffering and free of suffering, God and Man and perfect in both. One in two natures, as both Unitary."
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karateka
Hey, can I butt in? Thanks.
Personally, I believe Jesus IS God. Which would mean that he must have all the attributes of God, and I believe the Bible shows that. It is too much to get into here on this thread, but two GREAT books I have read on the subject are , More than a Carpenter and Evidence That Demands a Verdict both by Josh McDowell.
The way I see it, if one believes in a Jesus that is of one nature (fully man), and another believes in a Jesus that is of two natures (fully God and fully man), how can both Jesuses save?
Also, one more thought - there are many people out in this world who are not nearly as intelligent as the folks posting on this thread (My goodness! y'all have my head hurting with all that Greek! :blink: Just kidding) Do we all think God really holds it against people who haven't delved into research as thoroughly as many of us have? Let's be honest - some folk are never gonna get that far. Some are illiterate, or at least much more childlike with their faith. I think God will honor that just fine, and as long as people keep seeking him and seeking to be closer to him - well that is how he designed us from the beginning - to have a relationship with him.
Oh, don't ANYone go reading The DaVinci Code. LOL That will just fuxk with you!!! (Just kidding. I found it fascinating fiction)
So there's my take. Not to say that I have a corner on the truth - I would NEVER do THAT again!!!! Learned that lesson the hard way from TWI.
Remember, God's promise: "And you shall seek me and find me, when you search for me with all your heart." - Jeremiah 29:13
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ChattyKathy
Welcome karateka, you've been wonderful to jump right in. :)
And I agree with your thoughts on God honoring anyone who seeks Him. Intelligence and even life schooling isn't the parameter for being heard. My head hurts sometimes too when I try to keep up around here, but I don't read as much as I use to and may miss some of the less taxing as well. :unsure:
IMHO For Jesus Christ to be God then God worked thru him and therefore was "of" Jesus Christ. In the way Jesus Christ acted and spoke which would have to include his thoughts. He-God worked from within Jesus Christ is how I humbly feel it was. Including the limited abilities of being a man (yet not constrained except by His own will). And God could not die of course. So IMHO God would have had to allow His self to be bound by the laws of flesh and blood and His spiritual intercession IN FULL. He had to NOT force His spirit upon His son and make him do His will. His son had to take the action or how could he be tempted like as unto man?! IMHO.
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karateka
Thanks Cathy. Your post reminded me of a scripture - I apologize for not putting more references in my post in the first place - but I work well with "stream of conscienceness" or adult ADD. LOL
I love the passage in the 2nd chapter of Phillipians:
(2:5)Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus, (2:6)Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God, (2:7)but made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men; (2:8) And, being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
(I am quoting from the New Schofield Study Bible - well, because it is the closest one to my computer :D )
As other references come to mind, I'll try to post them. God only has me recalling this for the moment, LOL - that is until I have my second cup of joe.
Cathy, the fact that we disagree - and I know there are at least two distinct camps here - is okay. I think healthy debate is grand in its own right, as it encourages digging, thinking, learning, growing. That is something that wasn't allowed in TWI - critical thinking.
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ChattyKathy
Actually I've found that triune thinking is something I was raised with in the Nazarene church and didn't even know it. TWI was so adamantly against it I noticed that. :o But God being a part of Jesus Christ and the holy spirit is right on, I know it isn't that simple. But I've also found it isn't that complex either. Make sense? ;)
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