In the 90's my wife (at the time) and I didn't know what to say or not to say around our LC's. We were supposed to be checking in everyday and letting them know what us and our daughter were doing, with whom, etc. The first thing learned was not to ask any questions, just "yes sir and no sir".
My wife was offered a job in a different city and decided to take it. Of course accepting it was a big mistake because we hadn't 'cleared' it with the LC's first...we were needed in our present city more than in the one we were moving to.
After they sorta got over that they were ....ed because we had hired a guy in our twig to move us. Her new firm was willing to pay for our move and this guy was out of work, so we decided to hire him. WRONG!! According to the LC's, the household worked together to bless one another, and didn't charge for it. So we hired a professional moving company.
After that we didn't know what to say to whom, so we kept quiet as much as possible so as not to upset the apple cart.
I too had a spouse who wanted to "go to leadership" every time we had a disagreement.
I was brought up to believe that what went on in a marriage stayed private between the married couple. You didn't fight in front of other people, you didn't complain about your spouse to other people, it was nobody else's business! To this day I cannot recall a time when when parents argued. This is not to say that they didn't argue, I know that neither one is perfect, and both have their faults, but the point is that we never saw it!
I just can't imagine my mother calling the parish priest to discuss my father's transgression of some church doctrine, or my father calling the archbishop because he and mom couldn't agree on how to disipline one of us kids!
So every time that "leadership" was involved in an issue in our marriage I felt betrayed. Made me into a "stepford husband" in my own home. To avoid getting "leadership" involved I would just go along.
Those that were married and in. That had to suck. I know some were married while in twi. I have read all sort of reasons why people were married from a marriage being arranged, marriage so you would not be lonley out in the field (corps marrying corps) and even some that married out of love. To this day I hardly let anyone give me advice on my marriage. I have had people give me advice when I was dating someone and it backfired in my face. I found out the person you are married too respects you and your decisions. I would think that is why they loved you in the first place. That's what makes it work. JMHO.
I too had a spouse who wanted to "go to leadership" every time we had a disagreement.
I was brought up to believe that what went on in a marriage stayed private between the married couple. You didn't fight in front of other people, you didn't complain about your spouse to other people, it was nobody else's business! To this day I cannot recall a time when when parents argued. This is not to say that they didn't argue, I know that neither one is perfect, and both have their faults, but the point is that we never saw it!
I just can't imagine my mother calling the parish priest to discuss my father's transgression of some church doctrine, or my father calling the archbishop because he and mom couldn't agree on how to disipline one of us kids!
So every time that "leadership" was involved in an issue in our marriage I felt betrayed. Made me into a "stepford husband" in my own home. To avoid getting "leadership" involved I would just go along.
Exactly!
In MOST "Christian" organizations, running to a minister or whatever to tattle on
your spouse would-initially or soon after with a repeat performance-
result in YOU getting a lecture for not using HEALTHY methods to deal with conflict
Geeze Louise, those leadersh!ts were stupid! They gave some of the worst commands/advice/suggestions that I've ever heard! Just so that they could feel like they were in control.
Of course, the tighter they squeezed, the more people just slipped through their fingers.
My ex did the same thing....had to run every minor decision by "leadership". He wouldn't turn me in, though. He was afraid of being considered a bad husband because of my behavior, I think. He would carefully think through how to word things to keep us out of trouble, especially if it was a question I was asking. :)-->
In a way, he covered for me, but it wasn't because he was covering FOR me; he was covering for me FOR his reputation. It's kind of like he was saying, "Don't you know when you mess up like that it makes ME look bad?!?!?" Big whoop! I'd rather have honest answers, be happy and free than look good in TWI any day of the week.
And another thing! The ONLY time our minister growing up got involved with anything in our family was when my little brother ran away from home and my Daddy called HIM to come pray for my brother. The ONLY thing the minister did was pray for our family and offer support to my parents. THAT'S a true minister, imo!
If my family had been in TWI, they would have been telling my Daddy how disobedient my brother is and how he would be stoned if we lived in OT times or quizzing my Daddy on where he and my mom were "missing it" or something along those lines. They wouldn't have offered any support, help or comfort. They don't know how to.
It's amazing. I go through my day now without being 'confronted', or on edge. I may have an occasional arguement with someone, but for the most part I'm not 'screwing up', or 'in trouble'.
Like many, I lived most of my time in the way, almost anticipating the next dressing down. And for WHAT ? I can honestly not recall a single thing I ever did that warranted someone sitting me down , reproving me, or treating me like i was 5 years old. Yet every time I turned around I was committing some offense that needed 'correcting,
I live a normal life now, and I find it fascinating that I allowed that abuse for so long.
Can anyone even imagine letting one of those b*stards run our lives like that again?
I think the worst thing about a lot of that- the "reprover" slowly seemed to be younger and younger. I remember one of the last branch "personel" here bragging about how her daughter (fourteen years old) had the priviledge to "instruct" the corpses at the Indiana location.
Same kid would go through your stuff here, if she was watching your kids or doing some kind of work.. always looking for something to "get you in trouble" for.
Makes me wonder how well she is making out in the modern workforce. Can't last very long being stupid, accusing and barking orders..
I live a normal life now, and I find it fascinating that I allowed that abuse for so long.
Can anyone even imagine letting one of those b*stards run our lives like that again?
hiway29......nope, never again!!
Besides......Martindale is in exile....Don is dead.....Howard is a coward....Rosie hangs with Donna....and region guys are running scared into the night!!! If THAT doesn't speak volumes and close the doors on manipulation, then I don't know what would.
Hammeroni said the little way-nazi was, "always looking for something to 'get you in trouble' for.... I remember those days... how the heck did we survive such hyper-critical environments?
My husband, my leadership, my fellow twi's... they were ALWAYS looking for something I (or someone in my family) did wrong. I lived in constant fear of getting in trouble. So much so, that I was always putting myself through hell to make sure I hadn't screwed something up. (Funny, they always found "things" anyway.)
My ex didn't threaten to call leadership on me, but he did feel compelled to check every last decision with them (because we had been chewed out a few times for not checking with them). Frankly that wasn't much different from being "reported on".
No, the really sad and scarey thing was that my ex genuinely believed that what TWI was doing WAS the way of a father with his children, and treated our kid that way: expecting him to pre-think his every move in order to avoid any negatives in his life (like a spilled glass of juice), and then chewing him out for any little thing that wasn't just right.
I literally had a teacher tell me (after he knew we were getting a divorce) "Pardon me for saying this, but I hate that man... he squeezes all the joy out of that kid." I told them no apology was necessary. Seeing that for myself had been a big factor in my telling him and twi to take a hike. Funny, I had to see it happening to my child, before I realized that's what had been happening to me for years.
TheHighWay, I sooooooo relate to your story! My ex also ran every little decision by someone else. He was always second guessing himself and felt like he HAD to tell them every little detail about our life.
One time I broke down and told him how much pressure I felt to get every little thing perfect and how it really bothered me. I'm standing there crying my eyes out and he just looks at me, crosses his arms and says, "But you don't ever get every little thing perfect." Like, "I don't see the problem". Gee thanks for the comfort, Hubby!! -->
When we got divorced several people came up to me and said, "He was controlling, wasn't he?" and how much happier and relaxed I seemed now that I didn't have to answer to him. One girl said I was acting like I was always looking over my shoulder waiting for him to come "get me". I think he really thought he was doing what God would have him do because he believes everything TWI teaches is ex-cathedra and would never entertain the thought that they might actually be wrong about something (purposely or not).
I'm so glad you're free also, TheHighWay, and that your son can be a kid, messes and all, now! :D-->
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Stayed Too Long
In the 90's my wife (at the time) and I didn't know what to say or not to say around our LC's. We were supposed to be checking in everyday and letting them know what us and our daughter were doing, with whom, etc. The first thing learned was not to ask any questions, just "yes sir and no sir".
My wife was offered a job in a different city and decided to take it. Of course accepting it was a big mistake because we hadn't 'cleared' it with the LC's first...we were needed in our present city more than in the one we were moving to.
After they sorta got over that they were ....ed because we had hired a guy in our twig to move us. Her new firm was willing to pay for our move and this guy was out of work, so we decided to hire him. WRONG!! According to the LC's, the household worked together to bless one another, and didn't charge for it. So we hired a professional moving company.
After that we didn't know what to say to whom, so we kept quiet as much as possible so as not to upset the apple cart.
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Oakspear
I too had a spouse who wanted to "go to leadership" every time we had a disagreement.
I was brought up to believe that what went on in a marriage stayed private between the married couple. You didn't fight in front of other people, you didn't complain about your spouse to other people, it was nobody else's business! To this day I cannot recall a time when when parents argued. This is not to say that they didn't argue, I know that neither one is perfect, and both have their faults, but the point is that we never saw it!
I just can't imagine my mother calling the parish priest to discuss my father's transgression of some church doctrine, or my father calling the archbishop because he and mom couldn't agree on how to disipline one of us kids!
So every time that "leadership" was involved in an issue in our marriage I felt betrayed. Made me into a "stepford husband" in my own home. To avoid getting "leadership" involved I would just go along.
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dmiller
Moved to the Blowing Off Leadership Thread.
.
.
.
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justloafing
Those that were married and in. That had to suck. I know some were married while in twi. I have read all sort of reasons why people were married from a marriage being arranged, marriage so you would not be lonley out in the field (corps marrying corps) and even some that married out of love. To this day I hardly let anyone give me advice on my marriage. I have had people give me advice when I was dating someone and it backfired in my face. I found out the person you are married too respects you and your decisions. I would think that is why they loved you in the first place. That's what makes it work. JMHO.
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WordWolf
Exactly!
In MOST "Christian" organizations, running to a minister or whatever to tattle on
your spouse would-initially or soon after with a repeat performance-
result in YOU getting a lecture for not using HEALTHY methods to deal with conflict
in your OWN marriage.
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Steve!
Geeze Louise, those leadersh!ts were stupid! They gave some of the worst commands/advice/suggestions that I've ever heard! Just so that they could feel like they were in control.
Of course, the tighter they squeezed, the more people just slipped through their fingers.
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Ham
At least one good thing came out of it.
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Belle
My ex did the same thing....had to run every minor decision by "leadership". He wouldn't turn me in, though. He was afraid of being considered a bad husband because of my behavior, I think. He would carefully think through how to word things to keep us out of trouble, especially if it was a question I was asking.
:)-->
In a way, he covered for me, but it wasn't because he was covering FOR me; he was covering for me FOR his reputation. It's kind of like he was saying, "Don't you know when you mess up like that it makes ME look bad?!?!?" Big whoop! I'd rather have honest answers, be happy and free than look good in TWI any day of the week.
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Belle
And another thing!
The ONLY time our minister growing up got involved with anything in our family was when my little brother ran away from home and my Daddy called HIM to come pray for my brother. The ONLY thing the minister did was pray for our family and offer support to my parents. THAT'S a true minister, imo!
If my family had been in TWI, they would have been telling my Daddy how disobedient my brother is and how he would be stoned if we lived in OT times or quizzing my Daddy on where he and my mom were "missing it" or something along those lines. They wouldn't have offered any support, help or comfort. They don't know how to.
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hiway29
It's amazing. I go through my day now without being 'confronted', or on edge. I may have an occasional arguement with someone, but for the most part I'm not 'screwing up', or 'in trouble'.
Like many, I lived most of my time in the way, almost anticipating the next dressing down. And for WHAT ? I can honestly not recall a single thing I ever did that warranted someone sitting me down , reproving me, or treating me like i was 5 years old. Yet every time I turned around I was committing some offense that needed 'correcting,
I live a normal life now, and I find it fascinating that I allowed that abuse for so long.
Can anyone even imagine letting one of those b*stards run our lives like that again?
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Ham
I think the worst thing about a lot of that- the "reprover" slowly seemed to be younger and younger. I remember one of the last branch "personel" here bragging about how her daughter (fourteen years old) had the priviledge to "instruct" the corpses at the Indiana location.
Kind of made me feel sick, even then..
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Ham
Same kid would go through your stuff here, if she was watching your kids or doing some kind of work.. always looking for something to "get you in trouble" for.
Makes me wonder how well she is making out in the modern workforce. Can't last very long being stupid, accusing and barking orders..
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skyrider
hiway29......nope, never again!!
Besides......Martindale is in exile....Don is dead.....Howard is a coward....Rosie hangs with Donna....and region guys are running scared into the night!!! If THAT doesn't speak volumes and close the doors on manipulation, then I don't know what would.
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TheHighWay
Hammeroni said the little way-nazi was, "always looking for something to 'get you in trouble' for.... I remember those days... how the heck did we survive such hyper-critical environments?
My husband, my leadership, my fellow twi's... they were ALWAYS looking for something I (or someone in my family) did wrong. I lived in constant fear of getting in trouble. So much so, that I was always putting myself through hell to make sure I hadn't screwed something up. (Funny, they always found "things" anyway.)
My ex didn't threaten to call leadership on me, but he did feel compelled to check every last decision with them (because we had been chewed out a few times for not checking with them). Frankly that wasn't much different from being "reported on".
No, the really sad and scarey thing was that my ex genuinely believed that what TWI was doing WAS the way of a father with his children, and treated our kid that way: expecting him to pre-think his every move in order to avoid any negatives in his life (like a spilled glass of juice), and then chewing him out for any little thing that wasn't just right.
I literally had a teacher tell me (after he knew we were getting a divorce) "Pardon me for saying this, but I hate that man... he squeezes all the joy out of that kid." I told them no apology was necessary. Seeing that for myself had been a big factor in my telling him and twi to take a hike. Funny, I had to see it happening to my child, before I realized that's what had been happening to me for years.
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Belle
TheHighWay, I sooooooo relate to your story! My ex also ran every little decision by someone else. He was always second guessing himself and felt like he HAD to tell them every little detail about our life.
One time I broke down and told him how much pressure I felt to get every little thing perfect and how it really bothered me. I'm standing there crying my eyes out and he just looks at me, crosses his arms and says, "But you don't ever get every little thing perfect." Like, "I don't see the problem". Gee thanks for the comfort, Hubby!!
-->
When we got divorced several people came up to me and said, "He was controlling, wasn't he?" and how much happier and relaxed I seemed now that I didn't have to answer to him. One girl said I was acting like I was always looking over my shoulder waiting for him to come "get me". I think he really thought he was doing what God would have him do because he believes everything TWI teaches is ex-cathedra and would never entertain the thought that they might actually be wrong about something (purposely or not).
I'm so glad you're free also, TheHighWay, and that your son can be a kid, messes and all, now!
:D-->
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