He was divorced last May , it was spoken of in their conference in August last year, I read it in their publication they send out .
No he was not married very long , poor guy really.
Before the divorce he did say he wanted to spend more time to focus on his marriage and his wife. I know he was very sad after his first divorce and this cant help a bit .
Here's a guy who has made his "living" for decades telling others how to live their lives - teaching, counseling, exhorting, reproving... leading by example? What's wrong with that picture?
I feel sorry for him, and for all of us who, at one time or another, bought into the myth of "believing" as the key to abundance and victory.
It was a big con, a confidence game. Wierwille sold the snake-oil but he didn't invent it. It's been sold throughout the ages. If it were TRUE, don't we think a lot of people would have figured it out centuries ago, and the world would be a much different place?
I don't mean "faith" per se is the con. I'm not qualified to judge because I haven't got a CLUE what it really is. I mean this goddammed formula which misrepresents "faith" as the combined effect of commitment, emotional conviction and mental focus, as if they were somehow magical. When they work, they work on account of action which produces results. Sorry, it's not magic. Red drapes, my foot.
It seems to me that life tries awfully goddammed hard to teach us that "believing" does NOT equal receiving, but when you're hooked on hope, you're just another junkie. It's hard as hell to learn life's lessons because "believing" tells you not to pay attention. They're SCREAMING at you, and you hold your ears and "positively confess" lies to yourself. Suit yourself.
It doesn't matter whether you gamble on your shallow understanding of the greatest of ancient mysteries when you "believe" for your desires to come true, or on your shallow understanding of probability and statistics when you buy a lottery ticket.
I hope John can straighten out his life. I look at the bright side. If he can keep himself fully occupied with that, maybe he won't be so busy teaching others the same nonsense that led him to his current state.
He's been wrong about a whole lot of ...., and it didn't end with TWI. The moment of realization will be the beginning of wisdom. As for CES, or whatever they are called these days, he's better off without them. I hear Bally's can always use another over-the-hill jock with the gift of gab.
I feel sorry for him, and for all of us who, at one time or another, bought into the myth of "believing" as the key to abundance and victory.
I do too.
quote:
It was a big con, a confidence game. Wierwille sold the snake-oil but he didn't invent it. It's been sold throughout the ages. If it were TRUE, don't we think a lot of people would have figured it out centuries ago, and the world would be a much different place?
I agree to this also.
A) It is snake oil; and
B) docvic sold it, but did not invent it;
quote:
I don't mean "faith" per se is the con. I'm not qualified to judge because I haven't got a CLUE what it really is. I mean this goddammed formula which misrepresents "faith" as the combined effect of commitment, emotional conviction and mental focus, as if they were somehow magical. When they work, they work on account of action which produces results. Sorry, it's not magic. Red drapes, my foot.
Never did hear CES teach about *red drapes* . And I never heard CES *propound a formula* to achieve that like docvic did about "believing".
quote:
It seems to me that life tries awfully goddammed hard to teach us that "believing" does NOT equal receiving, but when you're hooked on hope, you're just another junkie. It's hard as hell to learn life's lessons because "believing" tells you not to pay attention. They're SCREAMING at you, and you hold your ears and "positively confess" lies to yourself. Suit yourself.
Then to you CES is an *echo* of all that docvic taught about "believing"? Trusting in God, and His promises is one thing, while *mind control* (ie -- believing) is another.
quote:
It doesn't matter whether you gamble on your shallow understanding of the greatest of ancient mysteries when you "believe" for your desires to come true, or on your shallow understanding of probability and statistics when you buy a lottery ticket.
True.
quote:
I hope John can straighten out his life. I look at the bright side. If he can keep himself fully occupied with that, maybe he won't be so busy teaching others the same nonsense that led him to his current state.
I hope his life straightens out too, and for his personal good. What he has taught, and what he has dealt with, are two different things (just an IMHO). I for one, do not know that the *nonsense* he is teaching, led him to this current state. Do you??
quote:
He's been wrong about a whole lot of ...., and it didn't end with TWI. The moment of realization will be the beginning of wisdom. As for CES, or whatever they are called these days, he's better off without them. I hear Bally's can always use another over-the-hill jock with the gift of gab.
"He's been wrong....." Your opinion, and you are entitled to it. Others see what he has taught in a different light --
quote:
from the Sower -- Jan/Feb - 2005
God bless you! May the start of 2005 bring each one of us new hope and ecclesiastical dimension as we face it's challenges.
In early December, rebel bandits broke into our house and robbed us at gunpoint. On December 31, one of them was arrested by police authorities and put in jail. We were ordered by the authorities to come to their office for an investigation, and they requested us to file a complaint against the culprit. But we opted not to do so, and asked the police if we can minister to him.
After some biblical counseling with my wife Ely and me, the bandit wept, asking for pardon and forgiveness. We prayed with him together, forgave him, and he committed himself to Christ. We give him the translated Cebuano version of How to Become A Christian. He was released from jail, after 24 hour detention.
Our coming to the police station was a gesture of God's forgiveness in action where police officers witnessed our conversation. The desk officer offered me to share with the police officers a Values Formation with Biblical bais session every Monday morning. It's a good chance to for us to minister to the police officers likewhat I did in the past years.
The incident that happened between my household and the culprit was a blessing for us to speak the truth of God's Word and share the goodness of salvation.
Your prayers are a strong sinew of our mission endeavor. Thank you so much for your deep concern for our outreach ministry.
Oh -- another PS --- JAL first went to the Philippines in 1991, "talking the talk". This is the kind of response he and CES are getting today, in 2005.
How long have you been talking your talk? ; and
What kind of "fan mail" (for your talk), have you gotten? -->
CES gave them money every month, they sponsor the "leaders" in the Phillipines. In a country with such heavy poverty and need this accounts for much . The letters you read are in DIRECT response to the money being sent!!!
CEs also had HEAVY recruitment for its followers to sponsor these guys in the Phillipines and many did and do.
Like the way corps sponsors the leaders were required to write to their money base and tell them how wonderful God and his word is working (along with that money rolling in .
Recently spirit and truth has decided to stop sending the monthy salarys to their "leaders" or at least cut back the amount. consequently they are now going back to the catholic church ministries for help and not so many letters of glory now!
After his first divorce John LYnn loved to travel get out of this country with the pesky Christian eyes watching as he asked for more and more and began his empire. The phillipines is a very filthy country concerning prostitution and sex it is horrid . How many tin can did he fill exactly to go hmm? hmm?
Eager to please IM sure. Get to know those locals !!!
This man has been busted for sexual issues in this country by his own company, IM sorry I find this so laughable the poor guy has zero control and is so openly revealed .
As far as your comment on talking the talk well DMILLER if your speaking of telling the truth I can absolutely assure you if one does they are not very popular. People have NEVER really wanted to know the truth, money softens the blow ALOT esp. WHEN no one is able to hold you accountable for how it is spent.
IF your talking the talk of selling a product, or keeping the cult thinkers happy oh yeah John Lynn does do it very well.
John is getting older so am I and Im not his enemy. I love his work on earth. But he is only a man ya know , folks need to realize where God is and He isnt within anyone playing the role.
We are all just people living a rather sorry state full of sin and heartbreak . Hence the need to know about Jesus christ and HIS mission . I truly believe God works with HELLO SINNERS!!
Why do so many forget that when a guy puts on a happy face and is popular with others? John gets no glory, he may want some he wont get any he is not "special' or gifted far above any other . He is just a guy getting older still screwing up his life trying to love the Lord along the way.
that is the walk Dmiller THAT is the walk. the rest of the crap you so aodre is frankly his job and how he makes money to keep on living in his zone just like the rest of us.
We want the truth that works for us, not the Heavly Fathers will.
If mankind even those called before the foundation chose the truth our story would be over here and Christ would be without His throne of righteousness for all.
I like John Lynn, I really do. I was very sorry to hear about his divorce, after such a short marriage. However, I believe handing control of the ministry that he started over to the Gr**sers and letting them heavily influence who he dated, and married, was a painful mistake. He just trusted people a little too much in areas where he could have taken a stronger stand.
Sure, he's made mistakes, and owned up to them. I believe he truly does have a heart to love people and want to help them. I hope he is in a place now where he can step back a little and listen once again to the still, small voice in his soul and not to louder, outside "prophecies."
He's the kind of guy, personality-wise, that just needs to lead people and have a group. Let the Gr**sers turn CES/STFI into a TWI clone, John. It will burn itself out sooner or later. Follow your heart and your God.
I really got upset when I heard about his second divorce.
For a minute it was like what Satori wrote about him being able to tell others so clearly but cant see his own plank in the eye.
But then I got really sad I really did I said Lord why do any of us have to be so saddened in this life with disappointments?
John has had one heck of a deal for a very long time, in many areas of his life, and I also think he is just trying to love another and do the only thing he has ever known. The years of the game plan are showing clearly in John and it is sad to see one so clinging while masking the a bravado of a MOG. I wish him peace.
I was almost going to start a thread yesterday asking what is going on at CES. I wrote to them several weeks ago asking them to recommend an evolution tape (Bibical facts vs the theory of evolution) and never got an answer back.
So I actually called John's phone number that was posted on the "Contact us" page and it was disconnected.
I was surprised, because it had been an efficient ministry, and outdated phone numbers and no responses back to emails is sloppy, you know?
wwjesuslaughat: I'm glad you said that too, because I wanted to say I like him too but didn't want to start a war, LOL.
I've only met him a few times and I DON'T agree with some of his philosophies at all, but I really do believe he has a good heart. And yeah, your right, religious leaders make mistakes all the time. Which is why I enjoy watching Joyce Meyer, she's so real about her life, past and present.
Anyway, glad this thread was brought up. Maybe we'll find out whats going on over there.
MJ, your comment about "zero control" is undeserved. Plenty of good folks have been divorced, and John holds himself to a much higher standard of behavior than you seem to think. Makes me wonder how well you really know this person you're so willing to trash online.
The main thing that I understand about John Lynn is that when most of us dropped out of the ministry, got mad at God, and went on with our own, private lives, he kept trying to do the Ministry thing, kept trying to serve God's people as best he understood how. If you kept doing that, too; kept teaching livingrooms full of people, even when their hearts were hurt and bitter, even when they were still mad at God; if you kept doing your best to publicly walk the walk and talk the talk, THEN you may appropriately trash John Lynn.
Me? I live in a glass house. Throwing bricks would only make me look stupid.
for a man that has such "high principles" he sure gets into enough trouble concerning relationships . How well do you know him ? I can clearly say without a doubt John Lynn doesnt give a rats foot about what anyone thinks of him most of the time. He easily can confess his problems because he really doesnt have a whole lot of guilt or shame. Ever read any of the stuff he writes about?
He claims to serve a risen Saviour and that is all. hmm.
Most clergy twice divorced and involved in a cult and involved in a sex scandal within his own company banned would not even have a job much less a ministry. As he says get real these high priciples you claim he hold seem pretty dam low to me.
hahaha what a joke of a acusation on a internet public forum..
John LYNN toured the company while on unemployment after being fired from twi!!! He was fired dear, and talk about angry and bitter hahaha l he lived in the who did what to whom when world . all about people people people . Just like grease spot cafe is today... He recruited followers on that angry bitter stance and many are still loyal to him today no doubt the apple does not fall far from the tree and it just takes scraping them up and throwing it all in another barrel. Misery loves company and he needed a pay check. He saved your LIFEfrom a cult? hahha He still needs ya as much as you need his approval maybe some of those pennies will ADD UP some day ya THINK? regardless at what the people do hmmm? not me not anymore.
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Raf
I've heard about the divorce, but not that he's left. I'll let you know if I hear anything.
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GarthP2000
Divcorced? Wait a minute. Didn't he just get married?
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Raf
All I've heard are rumors, nothing firsthand.
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GarthP2000
The Palace Revolt is afoot!
...
Now where's the other foot.
Whoop Whoop Whoop Whoop!
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mj412
He was divorced last May , it was spoken of in their conference in August last year, I read it in their publication they send out .
No he was not married very long , poor guy really.
Before the divorce he did say he wanted to spend more time to focus on his marriage and his wife. I know he was very sad after his first divorce and this cant help a bit .
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satori001
Here's a guy who has made his "living" for decades telling others how to live their lives - teaching, counseling, exhorting, reproving... leading by example? What's wrong with that picture?
I feel sorry for him, and for all of us who, at one time or another, bought into the myth of "believing" as the key to abundance and victory.
It was a big con, a confidence game. Wierwille sold the snake-oil but he didn't invent it. It's been sold throughout the ages. If it were TRUE, don't we think a lot of people would have figured it out centuries ago, and the world would be a much different place?
I don't mean "faith" per se is the con. I'm not qualified to judge because I haven't got a CLUE what it really is. I mean this goddammed formula which misrepresents "faith" as the combined effect of commitment, emotional conviction and mental focus, as if they were somehow magical. When they work, they work on account of action which produces results. Sorry, it's not magic. Red drapes, my foot.
It seems to me that life tries awfully goddammed hard to teach us that "believing" does NOT equal receiving, but when you're hooked on hope, you're just another junkie. It's hard as hell to learn life's lessons because "believing" tells you not to pay attention. They're SCREAMING at you, and you hold your ears and "positively confess" lies to yourself. Suit yourself.
It doesn't matter whether you gamble on your shallow understanding of the greatest of ancient mysteries when you "believe" for your desires to come true, or on your shallow understanding of probability and statistics when you buy a lottery ticket.
I hope John can straighten out his life. I look at the bright side. If he can keep himself fully occupied with that, maybe he won't be so busy teaching others the same nonsense that led him to his current state.
He's been wrong about a whole lot of ...., and it didn't end with TWI. The moment of realization will be the beginning of wisdom. As for CES, or whatever they are called these days, he's better off without them. I hear Bally's can always use another over-the-hill jock with the gift of gab.
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dmiller
I do too.
I agree to this also.
A) It is snake oil; and
B) docvic sold it, but did not invent it;
Never did hear CES teach about *red drapes* . And I never heard CES *propound a formula* to achieve that like docvic did about "believing".
Then to you CES is an *echo* of all that docvic taught about "believing"? Trusting in God, and His promises is one thing, while *mind control* (ie -- believing) is another.
True.
I hope his life straightens out too, and for his personal good. What he has taught, and what he has dealt with, are two different things (just an IMHO). I for one, do not know that the *nonsense* he is teaching, led him to this current state. Do you??
"He's been wrong....." Your opinion, and you are entitled to it. Others see what he has taught in a different light --
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dmiller
Oh -- another PS --- JAL first went to the Philippines in 1991, "talking the talk". This is the kind of response he and CES are getting today, in 2005.
How long have you been talking your talk? ; and
What kind of "fan mail" (for your talk), have you gotten?
-->
.
.
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mj412
CES gave them money every month, they sponsor the "leaders" in the Phillipines. In a country with such heavy poverty and need this accounts for much . The letters you read are in DIRECT response to the money being sent!!!
CEs also had HEAVY recruitment for its followers to sponsor these guys in the Phillipines and many did and do.
Like the way corps sponsors the leaders were required to write to their money base and tell them how wonderful God and his word is working (along with that money rolling in .
Recently spirit and truth has decided to stop sending the monthy salarys to their "leaders" or at least cut back the amount. consequently they are now going back to the catholic church ministries for help and not so many letters of glory now!
After his first divorce John LYnn loved to travel get out of this country with the pesky Christian eyes watching as he asked for more and more and began his empire. The phillipines is a very filthy country concerning prostitution and sex it is horrid . How many tin can did he fill exactly to go hmm? hmm?
Eager to please IM sure. Get to know those locals !!!
This man has been busted for sexual issues in this country by his own company, IM sorry I find this so laughable the poor guy has zero control and is so openly revealed .
As far as your comment on talking the talk well DMILLER if your speaking of telling the truth I can absolutely assure you if one does they are not very popular. People have NEVER really wanted to know the truth, money softens the blow ALOT esp. WHEN no one is able to hold you accountable for how it is spent.
IF your talking the talk of selling a product, or keeping the cult thinkers happy oh yeah John Lynn does do it very well.
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mj412
John is getting older so am I and Im not his enemy. I love his work on earth. But he is only a man ya know , folks need to realize where God is and He isnt within anyone playing the role.
We are all just people living a rather sorry state full of sin and heartbreak . Hence the need to know about Jesus christ and HIS mission . I truly believe God works with HELLO SINNERS!!
Why do so many forget that when a guy puts on a happy face and is popular with others? John gets no glory, he may want some he wont get any he is not "special' or gifted far above any other . He is just a guy getting older still screwing up his life trying to love the Lord along the way.
that is the walk Dmiller THAT is the walk. the rest of the crap you so aodre is frankly his job and how he makes money to keep on living in his zone just like the rest of us.
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dmiller
Really??
-->
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mj412
We want the truth that works for us, not the Heavly Fathers will.
If mankind even those called before the foundation chose the truth our story would be over here and Christ would be without His throne of righteousness for all.
really.
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wwjesuslaughat
I like John Lynn, I really do. I was very sorry to hear about his divorce, after such a short marriage. However, I believe handing control of the ministry that he started over to the Gr**sers and letting them heavily influence who he dated, and married, was a painful mistake. He just trusted people a little too much in areas where he could have taken a stronger stand.
Sure, he's made mistakes, and owned up to them. I believe he truly does have a heart to love people and want to help them. I hope he is in a place now where he can step back a little and listen once again to the still, small voice in his soul and not to louder, outside "prophecies."
He's the kind of guy, personality-wise, that just needs to lead people and have a group. Let the Gr**sers turn CES/STFI into a TWI clone, John. It will burn itself out sooner or later. Follow your heart and your God.
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mj412
wow wwjeasuslaughat what a nice post.
I really got upset when I heard about his second divorce.
For a minute it was like what Satori wrote about him being able to tell others so clearly but cant see his own plank in the eye.
But then I got really sad I really did I said Lord why do any of us have to be so saddened in this life with disappointments?
John has had one heck of a deal for a very long time, in many areas of his life, and I also think he is just trying to love another and do the only thing he has ever known. The years of the game plan are showing clearly in John and it is sad to see one so clinging while masking the a bravado of a MOG. I wish him peace.
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RottieGrrrl
I was almost going to start a thread yesterday asking what is going on at CES. I wrote to them several weeks ago asking them to recommend an evolution tape (Bibical facts vs the theory of evolution) and never got an answer back.
So I actually called John's phone number that was posted on the "Contact us" page and it was disconnected.
I was surprised, because it had been an efficient ministry, and outdated phone numbers and no responses back to emails is sloppy, you know?
wwjesuslaughat: I'm glad you said that too, because I wanted to say I like him too but didn't want to start a war, LOL.
I've only met him a few times and I DON'T agree with some of his philosophies at all, but I really do believe he has a good heart. And yeah, your right, religious leaders make mistakes all the time. Which is why I enjoy watching Joyce Meyer, she's so real about her life, past and present.
Anyway, glad this thread was brought up. Maybe we'll find out whats going on over there.
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notinKansasanymore
MJ, your comment about "zero control" is undeserved. Plenty of good folks have been divorced, and John holds himself to a much higher standard of behavior than you seem to think. Makes me wonder how well you really know this person you're so willing to trash online.
The main thing that I understand about John Lynn is that when most of us dropped out of the ministry, got mad at God, and went on with our own, private lives, he kept trying to do the Ministry thing, kept trying to serve God's people as best he understood how. If you kept doing that, too; kept teaching livingrooms full of people, even when their hearts were hurt and bitter, even when they were still mad at God; if you kept doing your best to publicly walk the walk and talk the talk, THEN you may appropriately trash John Lynn.
Me? I live in a glass house. Throwing bricks would only make me look stupid.
Respectfully,
niKa
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Cindy!
agreed, nika
While I don't subscribe to all the beliefs John holds, I totally think he does his best...that's good enough for me.
I love him and I wish him the very best in life.
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pawtucket
I've written to CES to get the answer.
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outandabout
I've always liked John. He was indirectly very instrumental in helping to pave my way out of the bondage that was TWI.
He would come around to our area yearly on his itinerary and I would always go to see him.
If he's got some stuff going on his personal life that he's dealing with, I just wish the best for him.
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outandabout
But as for CES and their name change, I thought that was really weird. I just didn't get the point. Now they have two names?
If it was MG who pushed it through for his own reasons, well maybe that explains it.
Last time I read the latest thing from them, my thought was "They're getting way too organized." Just my thought.
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mj412
for a man that has such "high principles" he sure gets into enough trouble concerning relationships . How well do you know him ? I can clearly say without a doubt John Lynn doesnt give a rats foot about what anyone thinks of him most of the time. He easily can confess his problems because he really doesnt have a whole lot of guilt or shame. Ever read any of the stuff he writes about?
He claims to serve a risen Saviour and that is all. hmm.
Most clergy twice divorced and involved in a cult and involved in a sex scandal within his own company banned would not even have a job much less a ministry. As he says get real these high priciples you claim he hold seem pretty dam low to me.
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outandabout
I'm not going to argue about John Lynn.
Like I said, I like him, and gee he's not perfect.
I don't know what's going on in his personal life. So he got divorced. So?
Anyway, I don't want to argue about it. I don't want to say any more than that.
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excathedra
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mj412
not in kansas
hahaha what a joke of a acusation on a internet public forum..
John LYNN toured the company while on unemployment after being fired from twi!!! He was fired dear, and talk about angry and bitter hahaha l he lived in the who did what to whom when world . all about people people people . Just like grease spot cafe is today... He recruited followers on that angry bitter stance and many are still loyal to him today no doubt the apple does not fall far from the tree and it just takes scraping them up and throwing it all in another barrel. Misery loves company and he needed a pay check. He saved your LIFEfrom a cult? hahha He still needs ya as much as you need his approval maybe some of those pennies will ADD UP some day ya THINK? regardless at what the people do hmmm? not me not anymore.
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