I have a place for someone and their pet here...maybe two..if they don`t mond sharing a two bedroom moble home....I just don`t know how to get in contact with the people who can`t leave becasue they have nowhere to go with their animal.
Here's an e-mail address and phone # for Best Friends, a huge no-kill shelter out west that I believe is trying to connect peopole who want to help with pets/people who need help. They're a good organization. I had a friend who volunteered there. E-mail address is hurricane@bestfriends.org
If it's not too late, I can help you with your paint dilemna. But I need to ask you some questions, so not to derail, private message me or email me at jolise126@yahoo.com.
Authorities said Friday that their first systematic sweep of the city found far fewer bodies than expected, suggesting that Hurricane Katrina's death toll may not be the catastrophic 10,000 feared.
"I think there's some encouragement in what we've found in the initial sweeps that some of the catastrophic deaths that some people predicted may not have occurred," said Terry Ebbert, New Orleans' homeland security chief.
Ebbert declined to give a new estimate of the dead.
Authorities turned their attention to counting and removing the dead in a grid-by-grid search of the city after spending days cajoling, persuading and all but strong-arming the living into leaving the shattered city because of the danger of fires and disease from the filthy, corpse-laden floodwaters.
"Numbers so far are relatively minor as compared to the dire projections of 10,000," Ebbert said.
Thank God. Rhino, I still think they'll pass 1,000, but I hope they're right and they don't find 10,000.
... some of the catastrophic deaths that some people predicted may not have occurred,"
"Numbers so far are relatively minor as compared to the dire projections of 10,000," Ebbert said.
Thank God. Rhino, I still think they'll pass 1,000, but I hope they're right and they don't find 10,000.
Yeah, that is a little encouraging ... still so hard to know. I remember hearing an early account of someone saying it came up so fast they barely had time to get upstairs ... that didn't make sense to me at the time, but I guess that was in the east where the surge topped the levees, as later footage showed ...
I never really thought the nightmare scenario could quite happen, north winds filling the city with lake water as the storm passed just to the east. But something close happened in the east, though that is less protected from the surge waters out of the gulf.
I've since seen another nightmare scenario that put hurricane Pam (fictional) from the south to the west of town ... I guess the surge comes through the marsh or up the river ...
Anyway, hopefully no more for a couple hundred years for New Orleans. Now I'll hope for under a 700. :)--> I'm counting on those resiliant Chalmatians and hardy folks in the nint'ward.
Just saw CNN's mock up of "how it happened". In my mind they wedged one foot in their mouth when they said the water flowing OUT of the east into the canal was actually water magically flowing in. Now, incredibly, they "wedged" the other foot in there ...
Anyway, they get the wedge from the gulf right, coming into New Orleans east (and Chalmette, etc. ... I worked down to Mereaux) and I guess they say lake water from Lake Pontchartrain came over that levee (I'm not so sure of that, Lake Borgne maybe), but then they say all this caused a break in the industrial canal levee that let a huge wave through (insert dumb cnn comments on this incredible wave after the break, how hard things were hit). Then they show proof ...a picture of St Rose (the nursing home), BUT it is still standing.
OK, let me clarify :)-->, I'm just saying what I see, not saying I am absolutely right, feel free to slap me down ... lol
I don't think any levees broke there ... that is why footage a day (?) later showed water flowing out over the levees from New Orleans east (the ninth ward, chalmette, etc). If this huge wave had come in through a levee break, it would have gone back out through the same hole. As far as I can tell, that is where they later intentionally broke the levees to let the water out. I haven't seen footage on this, it just makes sense.
OK, I've said it, I'm smarter than CNN's paid geniuses :)--> And that is after 3 glasses of wine, a horticulture degree, and a dial up connection (and that silly bachelor of theology). They should demand a refund and send the money to ME.
As it increasingly becomes clear that the body count will not be as high as feared (hmm... I thought fear was believing in reverse and therefore HAD to come to pass... oh never mind), I believe I owe rhino an apology.
Sorry Bill. You were right, and I let fear take root. Praise God, the number of survivors was higher than I feared. Even if the death toll does turn out to be over 1,000, I was expecting much higher.
May God guide the recovery and restoration effort.
Hooray! There are a bunch of local folks putting together a hay/feed/medical run for a shelter in Hattiesburg!
We already have enough for a semi, we have a truck and trailor available in b`mingham, but they don`t have a dot sticker for mississippi....dunno how hard the red tape is gonna be...but we are hoping that will come through rather than have to drave a flat bed ourselves from tenneessee.
Anyway...thanks for the help guys, looks like things are starting to get a little better coordinated.
Now that the truth about the horrible media coverage of Katrina has begun to come out, it is apparent that rhino was right. If anything, he may have understated how badly the story was covered and how much misinformation was given out.
I normally take what I read and hear from the media with several grains of salt, but I got taken, in part, by the despicable, overblown, often apparently made up coverage.
No murders in the Superdome. One apparent murder in the convention center. No confirmed rapes in either place. Nowhere close to the number of bodies they indicated were floating around or would be found in houses. Almost everything they reported was overblown or just plain false. The whole bunch of them should be strung up and flogged.
Yeah, definitely flogged, if not worse. Beyond disgraceful, the way they overreacted to this, and got the entire country, and the world, in an uproar.
I seldom watch television news, and after spending way too much time watching the Katrina coverage, I remember why. Instead of reporting what they see, the networks write sensationalized fiction to make their footage more interesting, if not startling.
The coverage of this entire storm bugged me from the beginning. Now I know why.
Rhino, you get the Greasespotlitzer Prize for your reporting on this one. Glad you took the time to post what you saw rather than what the networks said you were seeing.
I heard some time ago (I think on NPR) that officials had been unable to document the tales of murder and rape. No situation was more ripe for the spread of instant urban legends than the locations in New Orleans where tens of thousands of scared, hungry, thristy, and sometimes angy people were crowded together in horrid conditions.
I think maybe some of you are being a bit hard on the reporters in this particular situation. They were reporting what they were being told, by people who claimed to be eyewitnesses. In fairness to the critics, I suppose the reporters should have said, "alleged rape" and "alleged murder," since their usual avenues for confirming such reports were pretty much shut down.
Chaos abounded in New Orleans after Katrina, as did hysteria. I can totally understand getting caught up in the emotion. The reporters were surrounded by fear, misery, and outrage--and, in some cases, dead bodies. What they did wasn't great reporting, but IMO, it was greatly human.
I'm usually among the first to point the finger at reporters who don't do their homework. In this case I think they deserve a bit of a break. Although the aim is to be objective, I think the craziness that was New Orleans after Katrina shook the objectivity of even the most seasoned media professionals.
I think maybe some of you are being a bit hard on the reporters in this particular situation.
If anything, I think I was too easy on them. They were blasting FEMA and the U.S. military for not jumping right in and doing what wasn't their responsibility to start with, and stirring up people's emotions with rumor-mongering. I don't know of a single MSM source that reported the facts about how emergency plans were supposed to work, and who was responsible for what portions of the plans. As to all the rumored deaths at the Superdome and Convention Center, all they had to do was to ask, "where are the bodies?" And, as it turns out, there were law enforcement people at both locations that they could have interviewed before reporting what were not so-called eyewitness accounts, but rumors that someone had heard someone else say that someone else had seen something. That's not reporting. It's irresponsible, unprofessional, and neither understandable nor excusable for people who purport to be professional journalists.
And, by the way, I'm holding back on what I really think and feel.
I don't know of a single MSM source that reported the facts about how emergency plans were supposed to work, and who was responsible for what portions of the plans.
Just curious, what mainstream sources are you referring to? I just quickly checked through some sources, and was going to post a bunch of links, but it was taking too much time. I only made it (beyond the headlines) through two: Time and the CS Monitor. Both had what I thought were extensive and detailed enough reports on how things were set up to work, and why, and how it actually played out. I would guess that many other periodicals published the same. I also read what I thought was a prescient (if wry) article in the New Yorker about the birth of urban legends in New Orleans, and how those rumors thrived, grew, and spread during previous catastrophes, in much the same way they took over the Superdome. And, so far as I know, it was written before the final crime statistics from the Superdome were publicized. The writer conducted his interviews about a week after the flood, when the Ninth Ward was being patrolled by (to name a few) the New Orleans Police, New Orleans SWAT teams, the NYC Police Department, the Sacramento Fire Department, the Greenbelt, Maryland, police, Blackwater Security contractors, the Louisiana Department of Wildlife and Fisheries, the 82nd Airborne, National Guardsmen, San Diego lifeguards, SurfZone Relief Operations, and the Scientology Disaster Response teams (who, among other things, set up a tent to offer massages to the police). For one neighborhood.
I think it was the television media that failed this time, not the print media. They're the ones who spread the hysteria.
I meant during the first week or so, laleo. You are right that many fine articles were later published, but by that time, much damage had already been done that likely will never be fully undone.
Rhino, you get the Greasespotlitzer Prize for your reporting on this one. Glad you took the time to post what you saw rather than what the networks said you were seeing.
Wow ... I won a prize ... is there cash involved? a trophy? LOL
Thanks laleo ... I spent a lot of time watching CNN for the video, but the commentary often was nothing but story telling. They had a story line and a political agenda, facts be damned.
It's still hard to piece it all together ... the story of the "ghost cops" is interesting and sounds typical of New Orleans. http://www.thedeadpelican.com/COMPASS.HTM
I still haven't seen a real great accounting of what actually happened with all the levees and flood walls.
When you look at all the breaks there, it seems obvious that the levees were just overwhelmed with a huge surge, apparently from Lake Borgne. I saw an Army Corps guy on one morning saying how a 10 mile stretch of levee was basically wiped out, and it was far beyond anything they had ever expected. CNN never replayed that segment. lol That map doesn't show any breaks in New Orleans East, yet it was flooded.
There was a story about these levees, and how they had "sunk" like 300% to 5000% more than anticipated, and Bush cuts kept them from being maintained, ie. it's Bush's fault. You have to read the fine print to discover that 5000% only made them about a foot, maybe two lower than expected at certain points. Creative jounalism at it's worst.
I think there is more afoot here than sloppy journalism ... A police chief tries to cover his arse with wild stories, the reporters are anxious for their headline, bada bing bada boom. They must have had camera crews in the convention center since they kept showing one or two bodies ... I think many deliberately ignored what they saw and ran with the bigger headline.
It is despicable but not surprising that so many New Orleans officials and the teams they put together proved to be incompetent. At first it seemed good that so many are resigning, but I am somewhat irritated that they are probably walking out more because they don't want to face the mess that they left behind. There are plenty of politicians already snorting up to the trough for that $200 billion though, and public service is pretty far down on their list of priorities.
But the real story is about the majority of people in flooded areas that looked out for their neighbors, manned the pumps, used their fishing boats for rescues, those are the real New Orleans Saints. :)
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rascal
I have a place for someone and their pet here...maybe two..if they don`t mond sharing a two bedroom moble home....I just don`t know how to get in contact with the people who can`t leave becasue they have nowhere to go with their animal.
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Linda Z
Rascal, try these links:
http://www.akc.org/disaster_relief/?sec=sel&tp=g
and
http://www.animals911.com/
Here's an e-mail address and phone # for Best Friends, a huge no-kill shelter out west that I believe is trying to connect peopole who want to help with pets/people who need help. They're a good organization. I had a friend who volunteered there. E-mail address is hurricane@bestfriends.org
Phone is (435)644-3965 Ext. 4455
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ex10
scout finch
If it's not too late, I can help you with your paint dilemna. But I need to ask you some questions, so not to derail, private message me or email me at jolise126@yahoo.com.
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Scout Finch
ex10,
I think I sent you a private message. At least I meant to. Hope it went through.
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WhiteDove
Some more animal help links and updates
http://www.hua.org/Hurricanehelp.html
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rascal
Thanks alot Guys, this has given me a direction to go in.
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Raf
Thank God. Rhino, I still think they'll pass 1,000, but I hope they're right and they don't find 10,000.
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rhino
Yeah, that is a little encouraging ... still so hard to know. I remember hearing an early account of someone saying it came up so fast they barely had time to get upstairs ... that didn't make sense to me at the time, but I guess that was in the east where the surge topped the levees, as later footage showed ...
I never really thought the nightmare scenario could quite happen, north winds filling the city with lake water as the storm passed just to the east. But something close happened in the east, though that is less protected from the surge waters out of the gulf.
I've since seen another nightmare scenario that put hurricane Pam (fictional) from the south to the west of town ... I guess the surge comes through the marsh or up the river ...
Anyway, hopefully no more for a couple hundred years for New Orleans. Now I'll hope for under a 700.
:)--> I'm counting on those resiliant Chalmatians and hardy folks in the nint'ward.
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rhino
by the way, Evan inspired me to look up some New Orleans music ... here are some free MP3's by R L Burnside
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/store...6962759-0754550
if that is too broken up, just search for burnside on amazon music, then scroll down to the free downloads
Maybe some other New Orleans folks can find some good free stuff, to listen to while checking the nola news
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rhino
ok, I can't resist
Just saw CNN's mock up of "how it happened". In my mind they wedged one foot in their mouth when they said the water flowing OUT of the east into the canal was actually water magically flowing in. Now, incredibly, they "wedged" the other foot in there ...
Anyway, they get the wedge from the gulf right, coming into New Orleans east (and Chalmette, etc. ... I worked down to Mereaux) and I guess they say lake water from Lake Pontchartrain came over that levee (I'm not so sure of that, Lake Borgne maybe), but then they say all this caused a break in the industrial canal levee that let a huge wave through (insert dumb cnn comments on this incredible wave after the break, how hard things were hit). Then they show proof ...a picture of St Rose (the nursing home), BUT it is still standing.
OK, let me clarify
:)-->, I'm just saying what I see, not saying I am absolutely right, feel free to slap me down ... lol
I don't think any levees broke there ... that is why footage a day (?) later showed water flowing out over the levees from New Orleans east (the ninth ward, chalmette, etc). If this huge wave had come in through a levee break, it would have gone back out through the same hole. As far as I can tell, that is where they later intentionally broke the levees to let the water out. I haven't seen footage on this, it just makes sense.
OK, I've said it, I'm smarter than CNN's paid geniuses
:)--> And that is after 3 glasses of wine, a horticulture degree, and a dial up connection (and that silly bachelor of theology). They should demand a refund and send the money to ME.
how 'bout some zydeco?
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-h...6962759-0754550
"too much wine" is a good one
;)-->
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Raf
As it increasingly becomes clear that the body count will not be as high as feared (hmm... I thought fear was believing in reverse and therefore HAD to come to pass... oh never mind), I believe I owe rhino an apology.
Sorry Bill. You were right, and I let fear take root. Praise God, the number of survivors was higher than I feared. Even if the death toll does turn out to be over 1,000, I was expecting much higher.
May God guide the recovery and restoration effort.
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rhino
Hey Raf,
No need to apologize, I didn't remember you claiming that anyway, you were just quoting someone ... I just like lively discussion
:)-->
NPR has the best account I've seen of the big surge coming in from the east, right over the levees probably.
http://www.npr.org/templates/ sto...storyId=4838668
The possible toll in the east, ninth ward, chalmette, still concerns me since that surge came through so fast.
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dmiller
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rascal
Hooray! There are a bunch of local folks putting together a hay/feed/medical run for a shelter in Hattiesburg!
We already have enough for a semi, we have a truck and trailor available in b`mingham, but they don`t have a dot sticker for mississippi....dunno how hard the red tape is gonna be...but we are hoping that will come through rather than have to drave a flat bed ourselves from tenneessee.
Anyway...thanks for the help guys, looks like things are starting to get a little better coordinated.
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Belle
To the top for GC. :)
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LG
Now that the truth about the horrible media coverage of Katrina has begun to come out, it is apparent that rhino was right. If anything, he may have understated how badly the story was covered and how much misinformation was given out.
I normally take what I read and hear from the media with several grains of salt, but I got taken, in part, by the despicable, overblown, often apparently made up coverage.
No murders in the Superdome. One apparent murder in the convention center. No confirmed rapes in either place. Nowhere close to the number of bodies they indicated were floating around or would be found in houses. Almost everything they reported was overblown or just plain false. The whole bunch of them should be strung up and flogged.
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laleo
Yeah, definitely flogged, if not worse. Beyond disgraceful, the way they overreacted to this, and got the entire country, and the world, in an uproar.
I seldom watch television news, and after spending way too much time watching the Katrina coverage, I remember why. Instead of reporting what they see, the networks write sensationalized fiction to make their footage more interesting, if not startling.
The coverage of this entire storm bugged me from the beginning. Now I know why.
Rhino, you get the Greasespotlitzer Prize for your reporting on this one. Glad you took the time to post what you saw rather than what the networks said you were seeing.
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Linda Z
I heard some time ago (I think on NPR) that officials had been unable to document the tales of murder and rape. No situation was more ripe for the spread of instant urban legends than the locations in New Orleans where tens of thousands of scared, hungry, thristy, and sometimes angy people were crowded together in horrid conditions.
I think maybe some of you are being a bit hard on the reporters in this particular situation. They were reporting what they were being told, by people who claimed to be eyewitnesses. In fairness to the critics, I suppose the reporters should have said, "alleged rape" and "alleged murder," since their usual avenues for confirming such reports were pretty much shut down.
Chaos abounded in New Orleans after Katrina, as did hysteria. I can totally understand getting caught up in the emotion. The reporters were surrounded by fear, misery, and outrage--and, in some cases, dead bodies. What they did wasn't great reporting, but IMO, it was greatly human.
I'm usually among the first to point the finger at reporters who don't do their homework. In this case I think they deserve a bit of a break. Although the aim is to be objective, I think the craziness that was New Orleans after Katrina shook the objectivity of even the most seasoned media professionals.
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LG
And, by the way, I'm holding back on what I really think and feel.
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laleo
Just curious, what mainstream sources are you referring to? I just quickly checked through some sources, and was going to post a bunch of links, but it was taking too much time. I only made it (beyond the headlines) through two: Time and the CS Monitor. Both had what I thought were extensive and detailed enough reports on how things were set up to work, and why, and how it actually played out. I would guess that many other periodicals published the same. I also read what I thought was a prescient (if wry) article in the New Yorker about the birth of urban legends in New Orleans, and how those rumors thrived, grew, and spread during previous catastrophes, in much the same way they took over the Superdome. And, so far as I know, it was written before the final crime statistics from the Superdome were publicized. The writer conducted his interviews about a week after the flood, when the Ninth Ward was being patrolled by (to name a few) the New Orleans Police, New Orleans SWAT teams, the NYC Police Department, the Sacramento Fire Department, the Greenbelt, Maryland, police, Blackwater Security contractors, the Louisiana Department of Wildlife and Fisheries, the 82nd Airborne, National Guardsmen, San Diego lifeguards, SurfZone Relief Operations, and the Scientology Disaster Response teams (who, among other things, set up a tent to offer massages to the police). For one neighborhood.
I think it was the television media that failed this time, not the print media. They're the ones who spread the hysteria.
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LG
I meant during the first week or so, laleo. You are right that many fine articles were later published, but by that time, much damage had already been done that likely will never be fully undone.
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rhino
Wow ... I won a prize ... is there cash involved? a trophy? LOL
Thanks laleo ... I spent a lot of time watching CNN for the video, but the commentary often was nothing but story telling. They had a story line and a political agenda, facts be damned.
It's still hard to piece it all together ... the story of the "ghost cops" is interesting and sounds typical of New Orleans. http://www.thedeadpelican.com/COMPASS.HTM
I still haven't seen a real great accounting of what actually happened with all the levees and flood walls.
http://www.hq.usace.army.mil/cepa/katrina/pumps/pumps.html
When you look at all the breaks there, it seems obvious that the levees were just overwhelmed with a huge surge, apparently from Lake Borgne. I saw an Army Corps guy on one morning saying how a 10 mile stretch of levee was basically wiped out, and it was far beyond anything they had ever expected. CNN never replayed that segment. lol That map doesn't show any breaks in New Orleans East, yet it was flooded.
There was a story about these levees, and how they had "sunk" like 300% to 5000% more than anticipated, and Bush cuts kept them from being maintained, ie. it's Bush's fault. You have to read the fine print to discover that 5000% only made them about a foot, maybe two lower than expected at certain points. Creative jounalism at it's worst.
I think there is more afoot here than sloppy journalism ... A police chief tries to cover his arse with wild stories, the reporters are anxious for their headline, bada bing bada boom. They must have had camera crews in the convention center since they kept showing one or two bodies ... I think many deliberately ignored what they saw and ran with the bigger headline.
It is despicable but not surprising that so many New Orleans officials and the teams they put together proved to be incompetent. At first it seemed good that so many are resigning, but I am somewhat irritated that they are probably walking out more because they don't want to face the mess that they left behind. There are plenty of politicians already snorting up to the trough for that $200 billion though, and public service is pretty far down on their list of priorities.
But the real story is about the majority of people in flooded areas that looked out for their neighbors, manned the pumps, used their fishing boats for rescues, those are the real New Orleans Saints. :)
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Raf
The final death toll from New Orleans is 964, and is not expected to rise any further. In Mississippi, it's 221.
In all, not quite as low as Bill hoped, not nearly as high as I feared.
Yes, rhino, you win the Greasespot Hat and T-Shirt award. Well done.
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