let's see, the stRangers got a class A pitcher from the yanks for Lamb... I think he had an ERA of 2 something... which would immediately make him the ace of the staff!!! :D-->
...anyone want Chan Ho???
I'm on the outside, looking inside, what do I see? Much confusion, disillusion, all around me.
With addition of Maddux, Cubs' rotation could be best of all-time
By PHIL ROGERS
Chicago Tribune
CHICAGO - Gentlemen, start your superlatives.
But first, pause for a little perspective. If Greg Maddux had signed with another team, it would be easy to describe him as a great pitcher on the way down.
After all, Mad Dog was dogged in Game 3 of the Division Series at Wrigley Field, but it was Mark Prior who was the truth. Maddux's earned-run average was 3.96 last season, the highest since his rookie season in 1987.
Because of concerns about his back and legs, the 37-year-old Maddux has become a six-inning pitcher, rather than a workhorse. Like Tom Glavine, his strike zone seems to have shrunk since Major League Baseball introduced the controversial QuesTec system, which will be in use for the first time at both Chicago ballparks in 2004.
These are facts that might be encouraging to baseball fans reading the St. Louis Post-Dispatch or the Houston Chronicle. But you're not doing that, are you?
So we'll spare readers the cynicism.
The most important side of the Maddux coin is that the Cubs just landed themselves a future Hall of Famer who has averaged 17.4 victories over the last five seasons. He joins a rotation that includes two aces and two others with sometimes electrifying stuff. He is replacing Shawn Estes, whose 5.73 ERA over 28 starts kept the Cubs from 90-plus victories a year ago.
With Maddux in Estes' spot - not to mention Juan Cruz in the wings as starter No. 6 - the over-under on victories for the 2004 Cubs should be elevated from about 92 to 95. The Cubs once again should be favored to win not just the National League Central but also the pennant, a distinction they lost after Houston added Roger Clemens to its unexpected signing of Andy Pettitte.
Just how good could this Cubs rotation be?
If Prior, Kerry Wood, Maddux, Matt Clement and Carlos Zambrano all are healthy enough to make 30 starts - Zambrano's the most questionable after excessive wear - it could be one of the best starting staffs ever, perhaps the greatest in the era of the five-man rotation.
Going way back when, Cleveland's combination of Bob Feller, Early Wynn, Bob Lemon and Mike Garcia was tough to beat. Ditto the Yankees of the same era, built around Allie Reynolds, Vic Raschi and Ed Lopat. The Dodgers in 1966 had Sandy Koufax, Don Drysdale, Claude Osteen and Don Sutton.
Baltimore got 20 victories apiece from Jim Palmer, Dave McNally, Mike Cuellar and Pat Dobson in 1971. Oakland had a tremendous core in Catfish Hunter, Vida Blue and Ken Holtzman in the early `70s, but Blue Moon Odom was an erratic No. 4.
With expansion and the evolution of the fifth starter, there's nothing trickier for modern executives than building a rotation that's powerful at the beginning and strong at the end. The Big Red Machine almost had run its course when Tom Seaver arrived as ace.
The Mets had some great staffs in the Dwight Gooden era but they weren't as strong at either the front of the rotation (Gooden, Ron Darling and David Cone) or the back (Rick Aguilera, Bob Ojeda and Sid Fernandez) as this Cubs team could be.
Atlanta had three great arms to count on from 1993 through `99, when the Maddux-Glavine-John Smoltz trio was in its prime, and found promising No. 4 starters in Steve Avery and Kevin Millwood, but those two never overlapped. Only in `98, when Millwood won 17 games while Denny Neagle won 16, could manager Bobby Cox feel as good about all five men in his rotation as Dusty Baker should this morning.
When your toughest question is what to do with a pitcher like Cruz, who when he's on has better stuff than Maddux, you can't wait for Opening Day to arrive.
Now that the winter is over, it's guaranteed to be an agonizingly long spring training for Baker, general manager Jim Hendry and Cubs fans, who will knock wood every time someone mentions how good this rotation will be if all five starters remain healthy.
Houston fans know the feeling. With Roy Oswalt, Wade Miller, Pettitte, Clemens, Tim Redding and Jeriome Robertson or Carlos Hernandez, the Astros' rotation figures to be almost as good.
But only one of these two teams has a 23-year-old with the Tiger Woods gene (Prior). And it's the same team that has a Hall of Famer who has won at least 15 games in every year since 1988 (Maddux).
Clemens loves the camera and the camera loves him, yet he has won 15 games or more in only four of the last 11 seasons. Pettitte has won 15 in six of his nine.
With Maddux in the mix, there's no debating whether the Cubs hold an edge over the Astros - and maybe every single starting rotation in the last 30 years. The question is whether they can be better than the 1998 Braves, who had five starters win 16-20 games for a team that won 106.
Today, on my way back home from downtown Phoenix, I drove past Tempe Diablo Stadium (can be seen from the I-10 freeway) and saw Anaheim Angels uniforms on fellows in the parking lot...
well...ya gotta figure the Cubbies are gonna be in it... and Houston definitely upgraded their pitching staff... and the Dbacks upgraded offense, but have the potential for a very good pitching staff...
I like Simontheloaded's Cubbies as well and Houston... but I'd think maybe some of our friends in NoCal might have something to say about the NL West...
She's the kind of a girl that makes the "News of the World" Yes you could say she was attractively built.
I'd like to say the Marlins should still be strong, but they did lose the glue that held them together -- Pudge.
It's always (at least in the last roughly 15 years) a bad idea to count Atlanta out... but I can't say I'm overly impressed with any of them. The Mets are always trying to upgrade, but seemingly always at least one step behind George and his Bronx crew.
and as to the Giants, it's always wise to keep your eye on an Alou managed team, but Barry may have to give up his power brew this year, so ya never know.
"People will come Ray. The one constant through all the years, Ray, has been baseball. America has rolled by like an army of steamrollers; it has been erased like a blackboard, rebuilt, and erased again. But baseball has marked the time.
"This field, this game, is a part of our past, Ray. It reminds us of all that once was good, and it could be again. Ohhhh, people will come, Ray. People will most definitely come."
"People will come Ray. The one constant through all the years, Ray, has been baseball. America has rolled by like an army of steamrollers; it has been erased like a blackboard, rebuilt, and erased again. But baseball has marked the time.
"This field, this game, is a part of our past, Ray. It reminds us of all that once was good, and it could be again. Ohhhh, people will come, Ray. People will most definitely come."
James Earl Jones
in Field of Dreams
My favorite movie mstar1...made me cry..."all I ever wanted to do was play catch with my father. Is there really a place called heaven Dad? Oh yeah there is a heaven" cried like a baby...my wife looked at me like I had lost my mind...she didn't understand...guess it's not a chick flick?
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Rocky
16 days until pitchers and catchers report to Tucson for Diamondbacks spring training. Are the other teams dates the same?
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Tom Strange
middle of the month sounds about right Rockman...
let's see, the stRangers got a class A pitcher from the yanks for Lamb... I think he had an ERA of 2 something... which would immediately make him the ace of the staff!!!
:D-->
...anyone want Chan Ho???
I'm on the outside, looking inside, what do I see? Much confusion, disillusion, all around me.
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Rocky
TS, did you see what your buddy Pudge did?
Signed a multi-year with Detroit! Well, I guess he got his ring, so he can afford to gamble on the prospect of rebuilding?
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Tom Strange
with him (with his wife directing) it's all about the money... he knows he's gonna be in the HOF... it's all about the money...
I'm on the outside, looking inside, what do I see? Much confusion, disillusion, all around me.
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Tom Strange
and now... A-Rod to the Yankees for Soriano and a minor league pitcher... who woulda thunk it?
I'm on the outside, looking inside, what do I see? Much confusion, disillusion, all around me.
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Rocky
New York who?
Posted on Wed, Feb. 18, 2004
With addition of Maddux, Cubs' rotation could be best of all-time
By PHIL ROGERS
Chicago Tribune
CHICAGO - Gentlemen, start your superlatives.
But first, pause for a little perspective. If Greg Maddux had signed with another team, it would be easy to describe him as a great pitcher on the way down.
After all, Mad Dog was dogged in Game 3 of the Division Series at Wrigley Field, but it was Mark Prior who was the truth. Maddux's earned-run average was 3.96 last season, the highest since his rookie season in 1987.
Because of concerns about his back and legs, the 37-year-old Maddux has become a six-inning pitcher, rather than a workhorse. Like Tom Glavine, his strike zone seems to have shrunk since Major League Baseball introduced the controversial QuesTec system, which will be in use for the first time at both Chicago ballparks in 2004.
These are facts that might be encouraging to baseball fans reading the St. Louis Post-Dispatch or the Houston Chronicle. But you're not doing that, are you?
So we'll spare readers the cynicism.
The most important side of the Maddux coin is that the Cubs just landed themselves a future Hall of Famer who has averaged 17.4 victories over the last five seasons. He joins a rotation that includes two aces and two others with sometimes electrifying stuff. He is replacing Shawn Estes, whose 5.73 ERA over 28 starts kept the Cubs from 90-plus victories a year ago.
With Maddux in Estes' spot - not to mention Juan Cruz in the wings as starter No. 6 - the over-under on victories for the 2004 Cubs should be elevated from about 92 to 95. The Cubs once again should be favored to win not just the National League Central but also the pennant, a distinction they lost after Houston added Roger Clemens to its unexpected signing of Andy Pettitte.
Just how good could this Cubs rotation be?
If Prior, Kerry Wood, Maddux, Matt Clement and Carlos Zambrano all are healthy enough to make 30 starts - Zambrano's the most questionable after excessive wear - it could be one of the best starting staffs ever, perhaps the greatest in the era of the five-man rotation.
Going way back when, Cleveland's combination of Bob Feller, Early Wynn, Bob Lemon and Mike Garcia was tough to beat. Ditto the Yankees of the same era, built around Allie Reynolds, Vic Raschi and Ed Lopat. The Dodgers in 1966 had Sandy Koufax, Don Drysdale, Claude Osteen and Don Sutton.
Baltimore got 20 victories apiece from Jim Palmer, Dave McNally, Mike Cuellar and Pat Dobson in 1971. Oakland had a tremendous core in Catfish Hunter, Vida Blue and Ken Holtzman in the early `70s, but Blue Moon Odom was an erratic No. 4.
With expansion and the evolution of the fifth starter, there's nothing trickier for modern executives than building a rotation that's powerful at the beginning and strong at the end. The Big Red Machine almost had run its course when Tom Seaver arrived as ace.
The Mets had some great staffs in the Dwight Gooden era but they weren't as strong at either the front of the rotation (Gooden, Ron Darling and David Cone) or the back (Rick Aguilera, Bob Ojeda and Sid Fernandez) as this Cubs team could be.
Atlanta had three great arms to count on from 1993 through `99, when the Maddux-Glavine-John Smoltz trio was in its prime, and found promising No. 4 starters in Steve Avery and Kevin Millwood, but those two never overlapped. Only in `98, when Millwood won 17 games while Denny Neagle won 16, could manager Bobby Cox feel as good about all five men in his rotation as Dusty Baker should this morning.
When your toughest question is what to do with a pitcher like Cruz, who when he's on has better stuff than Maddux, you can't wait for Opening Day to arrive.
Now that the winter is over, it's guaranteed to be an agonizingly long spring training for Baker, general manager Jim Hendry and Cubs fans, who will knock wood every time someone mentions how good this rotation will be if all five starters remain healthy.
Houston fans know the feeling. With Roy Oswalt, Wade Miller, Pettitte, Clemens, Tim Redding and Jeriome Robertson or Carlos Hernandez, the Astros' rotation figures to be almost as good.
But only one of these two teams has a 23-year-old with the Tiger Woods gene (Prior). And it's the same team that has a Hall of Famer who has won at least 15 games in every year since 1988 (Maddux).
Clemens loves the camera and the camera loves him, yet he has won 15 games or more in only four of the last 11 seasons. Pettitte has won 15 in six of his nine.
With Maddux in the mix, there's no debating whether the Cubs hold an edge over the Astros - and maybe every single starting rotation in the last 30 years. The question is whether they can be better than the 1998 Braves, who had five starters win 16-20 games for a team that won 106.
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Tom Strange
Yeah Rock... I know... Cubbies just might make it this year if they can maintain last year's attitude and effectiveness...
... I'm bettin' a round of drinks that Simontheloaded is very happy about this! why, he'll probably get another tatoo even!
I'm on the outside, looking inside, what do I see? Much confusion, disillusion, all around me.
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wyteduv58
I hope the Dodgers make the world series, but that would be like asking for a miracle.
Dovey....proud owner of two low riders...Dovey's Doxies...... too dumb to post pics http://gscafe.com/groupee/forums?s=9716057...a&ul=4846073735
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Rocky
Today, on my way back home from downtown Phoenix, I drove past Tempe Diablo Stadium (can be seen from the I-10 freeway) and saw Anaheim Angels uniforms on fellows in the parking lot...
IT'S TIME for SPRING TRAINING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Tom Strange
yeah baby!!!
I'm on the outside, looking inside, what do I see? Much confusion, disillusion, all around me.
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Rocky
Diamondbacks won their first spring training game...
yesterday, before the skies opened up with torrents, the Cubs and Giants played in Mesa (or Scottsdale, I forget) on ESPN.
So, prognosticators, who's gonna be playing in October?
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Tom Strange
Rocky, do you mean "what teams"??? or do you mean "what players are going to be left to play after all of this shihite about steroids hits the fan"???
She's the kind of a girl that makes the "News of the World" Yes you could say she was attractively built.
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Rocky
ok, Tom... how about -- either one?
The Shi-ite Muslim baseball players, eh?
:)-->
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Tom Strange
well... I have a pretty good idea it won't be the stRangers...
The Orioles and the Red Sox have made some good moves in the east...
I think:
AL
Red Sox
Yankees
Mariners
Twinkies
NL
I don't know.
She's the kind of a girl that makes the "News of the World" Yes you could say she was attractively built.
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Rocky
well...ya gotta figure the Cubbies are gonna be in it... and Houston definitely upgraded their pitching staff... and the Dbacks upgraded offense, but have the potential for a very good pitching staff...
So, they would be my guesses for the NL.
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Tom Strange
so... who wins the NL east?
I like Simontheloaded's Cubbies as well and Houston... but I'd think maybe some of our friends in NoCal might have something to say about the NL West...
She's the kind of a girl that makes the "News of the World" Yes you could say she was attractively built.
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Groucho
Tom...I think your prediction would be a little more accurate if you switched the Redsox with NY. and put the Yanks on top...
Best team money can buy..
"Thus sayeth Groucho the Yankee fan"
"I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy"
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Tom Strange
that may well be true Groucho... I wasn't listing them in any particular order... although I do hate them!
She's the kind of a girl that makes the "News of the World" Yes you could say she was attractively built.
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Rocky
NL east...
I'd like to say the Marlins should still be strong, but they did lose the glue that held them together -- Pudge.
It's always (at least in the last roughly 15 years) a bad idea to count Atlanta out... but I can't say I'm overly impressed with any of them. The Mets are always trying to upgrade, but seemingly always at least one step behind George and his Bronx crew.
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Rocky
and as to the Giants, it's always wise to keep your eye on an Alou managed team, but Barry may have to give up his power brew this year, so ya never know.
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mstar1
I just read this article and thought Id pass it on:
This Could Be The Greatest Season Ever And Heres Why
"People will come Ray. The one constant through all the years, Ray, has been baseball. America has rolled by like an army of steamrollers; it has been erased like a blackboard, rebuilt, and erased again. But baseball has marked the time.
"This field, this game, is a part of our past, Ray. It reminds us of all that once was good, and it could be again. Ohhhh, people will come, Ray. People will most definitely come."
James Earl Jones
in Field of Dreams
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Hills Bro
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mstar1
Yeah, well once I believed Wierwille spoke for God too, we'll see how it all plays out
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Doze
My favorite movie mstar1...made me cry..."all I ever wanted to do was play catch with my father. Is there really a place called heaven Dad? Oh yeah there is a heaven" cried like a baby...my wife looked at me like I had lost my mind...she didn't understand...guess it's not a chick flick?
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