So the Red Sox gave a two year deal to David Wells,a 41 year old pitcher,yesterday. He’s not just any 41 year old pitcher, he’s a 41 year old pitcher who is chronically overweight, has a bad attitude and may well be an alcoholic. Also, he hates Fenway Park and has expressed an interest in heading the demolitions crew should the Red Sox ever take crowbar to steel.
Signing Wells for two years for $8 million with the potential for him to earn $10 million more in incentives is the sort of the deal that not only raises eyebrows, but causes eyebrows to become fuller, thicker and more lush in order to be more noticeable as they are raised. There are a lot of Sox fans walking around today looking like Michael Dukakis or Frida Kahlo. GM Theo Epstein has earned a lot of faith and a lot of good will by putting together a WORLD SERIES CHAMPION team, but I'm still a little wary of this deal.
Everyone says that Wells will fit in perfectly with the Red Sox “bunch of idiotsâ€. Now I like people with extremely low IQs as much as anyone, but is it possible that the Sox are starting to take this approach a little bit too far? Instead of focusing on skill, age, and conditioning, is it possible that the Red Sox are only looking for people with limited mental faculties? If that is the case, is it possible that a Jose Canseco signing is just around the corner? a comeback from Mike Greenwell? or Oil Can Boyd?
I am concerned. So in order to prevent these sorts of dangerous moves from happening in the future, I have a simple suggestion. Instead of acquiring idiots, the absolute lowest end of the IQ spectrum, maybe the Red Sox should start acquiring morons...people who are still very stupid, but not quite as stupid as idiots. After all, if they are looking for elderly pitchers who aren’t terribly bright, Roger Clemens and Randy Johnson are still available....
...must be something in my coffee this morning....
aw starman... kwitcherbitchin! you got your ring! ...and besides, ANY decent lefthander is gonna get a bucket o'cash... it might work out for you guys though... Wells is due again...
Yeah,it's something in your coffee...Just won the world series and you're already bitchin'....
He still can be a big game picher....And may be a good spot starter....A good team can afford to take chances on a guy like Wells...Face it,every other team is going to try to improve so the Sox can't just sit on what they've got...D-backs are really trying to keep Johnson,although I don't see why they don't trade him for some young position players...He wants out and they need some major re-tooling....They're missing more than a few pieces...Plus they still got a lot of bills to pay...
well scuse my lame early mornin attempt at humor-----I dont understand why the D'backs gave Troy Glaus (Mr. Injury ) four years, seemed a little risky to me, but then again I'm not a GM....looks like Pedro is going to the Mets...all I have to say is thank you for 7 of the best pitching years i have ever seen and possibly some of the best anywhere at anytime, but the Mets??, isn't that the kiss of death for once great players??
and yea Ok I'll take Wells if only to .... off Yankee fans but there will be scrambling to get a full rotation together - Wells is Ok but he is not Pedro.....
rings..rings...that has a nice ring to it...
it did really happen didn't it? Sometimes I still think it's a dream......
Yes it really did happen....I think...Boy,you edited the hell out of that post....What's going to happen with Schilling?....AL pitchers only need to give you six good innings per start,so some of these old-timers like Wells can flourish there,although they are facing 9 real hitters a game,so maybe it's a wash...I still feel like if you can field the best starting nine batters,you can always find some pitching to pick up the slack....Down the stretch,it really was the Cubs hitting that let them down...
Apparently Schillings ankle surgery is progressing slowly-He said yesterday he may not be ready until May, with Pedro a Met, and Lowe likely going somewhere else..that leaves Wells starting opening day in Yankee Stadium...which is bound to tick off the Yankee fans....(which is a good thing ;)-->).
I dont know about the nine batters-pummel em to death- and fill in the gaps with what pitching you can idea. The Sox have always had good or great hitting and by itself never went anywhere. Two years ago they had 8 guys with 85+ RBI and the batting champion hitting ninth, it got them to the postseason but not far enough.
Last year they acquired pitching on the frontend (Schilling) and the back end (Foulke)but it still wasnt until they shored up the defense at the trade deadline that the team found its stride. The added D seemed to add oomph to the starting staff, who one through five, all started going 6-7 innings each with regularity.
That seemed a key to the turnabout in the season which the Red Sox took 86 years to figure out..(Defense and pitching?? whoduh thunk?)..of course the lineup was still potent, but each guy on the pitching staff was very important. The setup guys ( thats why I asked about Mantei)who for years in Boston were just throw in players became crucial parts of the puzzle as well, and when they worked things got much better....
If there is one thing that I learned from the 2004 Red Sox is that all 25 players have to consistently contribute at a high level, in their specific role to win...
I'm not down-playing pitching....It's just the most fragile and unpredictable of the main elements of a winning team....And if your team is solely built on it,it can turn on you....The Cubs were supposed to have the best NL pitching staff in 20 years,and right out of the chute Prior was hurt,Wood and Maddux struggled,and their closer was lost for the season...The D-backs can't build a team around Randy Johnson...They were trying to compare him with Steve Carlton on the '72 Phillies,who also lost over 100 games....
Geeze,if I could type faster I could go on and on about this subject...Defence can definitely inspire good pitching...That's one of the main reasons Johnson's record was mediocre with the D-backs...His defence and him never were on the same page...Your heart and soul of a team,I don't think,will be a pitcher...It's got to be one of the guys out there every day...The Cardinals,I thought,had an average starting staff,but a hell of a line-up,and the best coaching staff for pitchers(Duncan and LaRussa)...They made it to the series,but by then,nobody was going to stop the runaway Bosox train....
I dont know-the development this year of the Red Sox was interesting to watch though....First off the pitching staff stayed healthy for the first time that I remember, then it wasn't one guy, but two number 1 pitchers in Schilling and Martinez, a former 20 game winner (Lowe) as the number 3, a well rounded consistent guy as number 4 (Wakefield) and various # 5's (eventually settling on Arroyo), and for the first time in recent memory a good closer (Foulke). The Sox always hit well.
Even with that, for about three months they were spotty and played at .500. When the Nomar trade added Cabrera (a gold glover) at short and Mientkiewiez (another gold glover) at first, all of a sudden two or three ground ball singles a game were converted to outs and there were fewer errors on playable balls...Pitchers instead of having to get 28-29-30 outs per game were having to get 27 and sometimes less as basehits were robbed, its amazing what those little unsexy statistics did to the team and the pitching staffs confidence.
During August-September, all 5 starters started routinely going 7 nearly everyday, which had been rare for years ( it had seemed every other day someone was getting knocked out in the 3rd or 4th-which stressed the bullpen -sometimes for days afterward).
There may be other ways to win, but the Red Sox have always had a good hitting team, going back to the days of Ted Williams and Jimmie Foxx and they never did it. This year was the first time that I remember that the entire pitching staff was solid and didnt have a gaping hole somewhere and it paid off.
Not being close to the national league i dont know how the Cardinals did it over a season with the staff that they have ( unless Duncan and LaRussa have some serious good voodoo goin'), but I did see what happened when they ran into Schilling/Martinez/Lowe.
The Sox were lucky in that they had few injuries and when they did they had solid replacements all year, they also found their stride and gelled at just the right time, but I think the management played the right factors and put the key elements in place which included pitching and defense for it all to happen.
They're all of the Bill James school of baseball thinking which is all new to me but damn, it sure seems to work...It was pretty cool to watch.
Now the Sox are going after Renteria, another gold glover and after I personally got to hug a World Series Trophy (Thank You Jesus!Praise you! praise you!) I am beginning to see that as long as there is a Fenway Park there will be great hitters, but combining it with a pitching and defense approach is what makes winners.
..and I do agree with you--the heart and soul of a team will never really be a pitcher ( although a guy like Schilling was a spiritual leader this past year) or even one guy so much anymore. Jason Varitek was the sort of heart and soul guy for the Red Sox this year but he wasnt the stand alone guy with the biggest numbers. He was the guy who handled and gelled first the pitching staff, then the rest of the team for them all to perform to the best of their ability and into their roles and find themselves.
I hope the days of teams with a few prima donnas and a cast of thousands is gone, winning baseball takes 25 working together..
Heard on the radio this morning that the Red Sox did sign Renteria...
I think my overall point is,and I have to agree with you about 30 outs vs. 27 outs and the importance of defence,is that there is no shortage of pitchers in the majors who throw over 90 mph,who have a good reportrois(how do you spell that?)of breaking and off-speed stuff,that for whatever reason don't seem to be able to 'get it' between their ears...How many hitters would be described as 'crafty' or 'the professor'?...In other words,I think you could coach along pitching moreso than hitting...Perhaps,maybe...
Well I agree with you that a lot of pitchers have great stuff but don't get it and the true art end of pitching can probably be learned or at least the mind can be applied in that direction, if they so choose.
That was the real value of Varitek and I suspect Matheny in St.Louis also. V-tek has agreat baseball mind and prepares arduously (is that the right word?) for every game with the pitching staff for hours and hours every day.
Some pitchers took the preparation part of pitching seriously and some didn't and it usually showed. Schilling blew me away -he would be taking detailed notes in the dugout in between innings and have several notebooks to refer to, on days that he pitched. Others like Lowe or Mendoza often just showed up empty headed and would wing it--it showed--even though they do have great stuff.
The majors are filled with stories of the guys with great stuff who never did anything,(how's Casey Fossum doing?) natural ability helps but isn't enough, pitching is an art, --90% of the game is half mental--
If I were a GM I'd be looking for the guys not only with stuff but who with meekness study diligently the scouting reports to shew themselves approved , otherwise there shall be weeping and cursing and booing and much gnashing of teeth.
This message has not been edited. mstarpneustos by: mstar1, December 16, 2004 17:55
Az. Republic says all that's pending are the players physicals....I think it's time for Randy to move on...The love fest is over...But hey,he brought the D-backs a Cy Young,a championship,and a perfect game...What more do they want after less than a decade of existence?....I'm glad to be able to see Greg Counsell play every day...He is like the consummate ball player,IMO...
I wish the D-backs would spend more energy marketing to their young baseball fans,and building their team around young players that will spend most of their careers with the team...Boston had guys like Teddy,Yaz,and others to keep you going through the lean years....Cubs had Williams,Santo and Banks....Nowadays,there's so many mercenary ballplayers that move around every two-three years that you wonder what uniform they'll be wearing if they get in the hall of fame...
Like ten years from now,will RJ be remembered as a Mariner,a D-back or a Yankee?...I'm sure you'll always think of Schilling as a Red Sox(Red Sock?)but he really spent most of his career w/ Philly...I guess my point is,free agency is a good thing,but these expansion teams like Florida and the D-backs,who built their teams mostly on free agents are not doing their part to develop fan loyalty among the young fans...Anyway,that's some of my morning baseball babbling...
Yea I miss those days of the reserve clause when you had the same guys every year, and every trade was a major gasp. They felt like family that you got to know..Its a different game now, which has its pluses and minuses.
I dont know what teams like the D'Backs should do to fill their fan base--its probably a good idea to keep a few exciting guys around for a whole career, it locks an identity onto a team, I think..the 60's teams that I grew up with always had at least one name on each team that was a favorite an easily identifiable.
They don't have that problem up here we're born into being Red Sox fans that goes back generations...and it certainly doesn't hurt that the new ownership group has been great at listening to the fans and responding and making games a very fan friendly experience...
Just goes to show ya---Some threads are as grass which today is and tommorrow is thrown in the oven, but baseball and baseball threads liveth and abideth forever...
"In the big inning...In the big inning---yeah,...I like that...Wait!...I have to create the heavens and the earth first,else where will they play baseball?"
We traded Ruth for the bosses kid this year,a great trade and it worked out -well- you know how it worked out... our mourning was turned into joy.
He gets along well with the guys, helped pull the team together and pulled off a few miracles. I dont know when his contract is up or when or if he'll decide to move to another team, he hasn't been talking to the press much this offseason. I hope he stays forever, it makes for exciting baseball.
The Dodgers nixed the three-way deal between them,the D-backs,and the Yankees that would have brought Randy Johnson to the Yanks...ESPN said that according to the Dodgers,the deal 'was never on the commisioner's table,waiting his approval'...LA never felt like it was getting enough out of the three-way deal...
It also looks like the Cubs are shopping Sosa...I never was one to like to play winter-time general manager...I like to wait 'til the season starts and see how the hand plays out...In some ways,Sosa had a real rotten year in a rather illustrious career,and maybe he could put last year behind him...I just don't know if he could do it with the Cubs,or w/o a little 'help from his friends'....
Sammy's a little expensive for the year he had, and although his past looks great its hard to predict if his future is worth what he'll earn. I sorta doubt it myself
I've never really been into GMing either but I just finished reading "Moneyball", it was agreat read and it has become all that more interesting to watch the games behind the game.
Hey Wait--I clearly remember you requesting painkillers after Sosa's AB's a few short months ago....you want to go through that again?
If the Cubs could dump Sosa's salary they would have a shot at several quality players to replace him and fill in some gaps I imagine...
O and another thing-
quote: ESPN said that according to the Dodgers,the deal 'was never on the commisioner's table,waiting his approval'...LA never felt like it was getting enough out of the three-way deal...
It was never on the table?? i wish ESPN (whose been running it on the ticker every 30 seconds for the past week)and these other sports writers would quit announcing stuff every five minutes that proves not to be true.
Yeah,I know what I said about Sosa's bat and painkillers,but you said so yourself that baseball is one of those love/hate relationships...See how you people are?...Blaming the victim....
I guess I just don't see Sammy as the team leader....Maybe that's the Cubs problem...They tried to make him the heart and soul of the team,when in reality,while he has the most potent bat,and can show lots of enthusiasm,I don't know if he really has it upstairs to lead the team...Plus,his English ain't so good...Ok,my bad...
I saw him up close last spring during workouts and he is a hulk...He almost isn't natural looking...I have a photograph of Ted Kluszewski when he played for the Redlegs in Cincy,where he's showing off his big arms for the camera(he used to have to cut his uniform shirt sleeves to get his arms through them)and the muscle-tone difference between him and Sosa is like night and day...Maybe it is his friends at Balco....
I've been looking at a book called 'Take Me Out To The Ballpark' by Josh Levanthal...Nothing really brainy about it,but it's got great photographs and history of ballparks ,past and present,as well as many from the minor and Negro Leagues....I had to look up what Lifted Up mentioned about there being a Wrigley Field in Los Angeles...Same owner...The Hollywood Stars played there in the '50's(The first and only team,I think,to wear shorts as part of their baseball uniform,and The Los Angeles Angels in '60 and '61,with those ugly halos on top of their hats...They also filmed the old 'Home Run Derby there,which will still air once in a while on ESPN Classic...
I like them old ballpark books that have seemed to haver sprouted up the last few years, They even sell the models now, the pictures of old Fenway that have been unearthed recently with a playable hill in left before the wall was built are great. I haven't been to that many minor league parks (shame on me), but the oldest in the nation , or so they say, is about 15 miles from me, Wahconah Park in Pittsfield Mass was built around 1890, its still in use but faces the wrong way, so there is about a 20 minute break about the second or third inning every game to let the sun go down in the outfield. Its quirky that way, but gives you that oldtimey baseball feel just by being there. Jim Ball Four Bouton,a local here is trying to get it restored, its still a great place to watch a game...
...sounds like a good book...I wonder how much of a fans appreciation of the game is framed by the stadium. I know Fenway to me is a shrine, maybe you feel somewhatthe same about Wrigley, Do fans who grew up in The cookie cutter stadiums experience the games the same way as fans in Wrigley or Fenway or Ebbets field or other places that have generations of history tied to them?
Its late--Im ramblin'
....at 10 I liked those halo's and watching them turn Jim Fregosi to Bobby Knoop to Don Mincher DP's, I don't know if I could watch shorts though...wouldv'e like to seen the House of David with the beards --theres nothing quite like cult baseball.
So's I post here and quick check to see if the Red Sox have picked up that Japanese second baseman they've been looking at before I go to bed.
Nothing quite like these Japanese Sportswriters to make things crystal clear
quote:
" As for representative declaration Inokuchi lead socks "
The original Daiei Inc. which aims toward major league transfer Inokuchi resources benevolence infielder (30) the Richard * moth person who serves the representative understood, declaring the Inokuchi lead socks entering 19 days (20th of Japanese time). Being something which the group of major league authorized personnel make clear, the same person that " the lead socks you sign you call Inokuchi ".
To here, offer of 2 year 4000000 dollar (approximately 420000000 Yen) has reached from the lead socks in the Inokuchi origin, but as for the Inokuchi side dismissal. Matsui who ties previous off and the contract of 3 year 20100000 dollar 稼 (メッツ) it puts out to the inquiry, " Inokuchi Matsui (稼) compared to on " shows strong attitude.
But, with this it is decided with the レ troop entering, with does not go. The レ troop the FA at the connected terrier and 4 year 40000000 dollar (approximately 4200000000 Yen) of the shortstop who is declared makes a contract from the カージナルス. Furthermore, the bell horn which protects the this season second base, in lease remaining behind the policy of doing annual salary arrange in prerequisite. The Inokuchi " position " which protects the second base and guerrilla warfare is not definitely promised.
Bidding from the ホ troop the Inokuchi side which most prefers the レ troop entering which controls the 㑠㣠㦠this season world series. For a while, it may come to the point of watching over the trend of the second base hand 2 of the レ troops.
Well Im certainly glad I read that article -it cleared up everything...
" guerrila warfare is not definitely promised" ??
What kind of baseball are they playing over there? I'm gonna have to check out a Japanese game someday...
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mstar1
So the Red Sox gave a two year deal to David Wells,a 41 year old pitcher,yesterday. He’s not just any 41 year old pitcher, he’s a 41 year old pitcher who is chronically overweight, has a bad attitude and may well be an alcoholic. Also, he hates Fenway Park and has expressed an interest in heading the demolitions crew should the Red Sox ever take crowbar to steel.
Signing Wells for two years for $8 million with the potential for him to earn $10 million more in incentives is the sort of the deal that not only raises eyebrows, but causes eyebrows to become fuller, thicker and more lush in order to be more noticeable as they are raised. There are a lot of Sox fans walking around today looking like Michael Dukakis or Frida Kahlo. GM Theo Epstein has earned a lot of faith and a lot of good will by putting together a WORLD SERIES CHAMPION team, but I'm still a little wary of this deal.
Everyone says that Wells will fit in perfectly with the Red Sox “bunch of idiotsâ€. Now I like people with extremely low IQs as much as anyone, but is it possible that the Sox are starting to take this approach a little bit too far? Instead of focusing on skill, age, and conditioning, is it possible that the Red Sox are only looking for people with limited mental faculties? If that is the case, is it possible that a Jose Canseco signing is just around the corner? a comeback from Mike Greenwell? or Oil Can Boyd?
I am concerned. So in order to prevent these sorts of dangerous moves from happening in the future, I have a simple suggestion. Instead of acquiring idiots, the absolute lowest end of the IQ spectrum, maybe the Red Sox should start acquiring morons...people who are still very stupid, but not quite as stupid as idiots. After all, if they are looking for elderly pitchers who aren’t terribly bright, Roger Clemens and Randy Johnson are still available....
...must be something in my coffee this morning....
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Tom Strange
aw starman... kwitcherbitchin! you got your ring! ...and besides, ANY decent lefthander is gonna get a bucket o'cash... it might work out for you guys though... Wells is due again...
...how long til pichers and catchers report?
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simonzelotes
Yeah,it's something in your coffee...Just won the world series and you're already bitchin'....
He still can be a big game picher....And may be a good spot starter....A good team can afford to take chances on a guy like Wells...Face it,every other team is going to try to improve so the Sox can't just sit on what they've got...D-backs are really trying to keep Johnson,although I don't see why they don't trade him for some young position players...He wants out and they need some major re-tooling....They're missing more than a few pieces...Plus they still got a lot of bills to pay...
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mstar1
well scuse my lame early mornin attempt at humor-----I dont understand why the D'backs gave Troy Glaus (Mr. Injury ) four years, seemed a little risky to me, but then again I'm not a GM....looks like Pedro is going to the Mets...all I have to say is thank you for 7 of the best pitching years i have ever seen and possibly some of the best anywhere at anytime, but the Mets??, isn't that the kiss of death for once great players??
and yea Ok I'll take Wells if only to .... off Yankee fans but there will be scrambling to get a full rotation together - Wells is Ok but he is not Pedro.....
rings..rings...that has a nice ring to it...
it did really happen didn't it? Sometimes I still think it's a dream......
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simonzelotes
Yes it really did happen....I think...Boy,you edited the hell out of that post....What's going to happen with Schilling?....AL pitchers only need to give you six good innings per start,so some of these old-timers like Wells can flourish there,although they are facing 9 real hitters a game,so maybe it's a wash...I still feel like if you can field the best starting nine batters,you can always find some pitching to pick up the slack....Down the stretch,it really was the Cubs hitting that let them down...
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mstar1
Apparently Schillings ankle surgery is progressing slowly-He said yesterday he may not be ready until May, with Pedro a Met, and Lowe likely going somewhere else..that leaves Wells starting opening day in Yankee Stadium...which is bound to tick off the Yankee fans....(which is a good thing
;)-->).
I dont know about the nine batters-pummel em to death- and fill in the gaps with what pitching you can idea. The Sox have always had good or great hitting and by itself never went anywhere. Two years ago they had 8 guys with 85+ RBI and the batting champion hitting ninth, it got them to the postseason but not far enough.
Last year they acquired pitching on the frontend (Schilling) and the back end (Foulke)but it still wasnt until they shored up the defense at the trade deadline that the team found its stride. The added D seemed to add oomph to the starting staff, who one through five, all started going 6-7 innings each with regularity.
That seemed a key to the turnabout in the season which the Red Sox took 86 years to figure out..(Defense and pitching?? whoduh thunk?)..of course the lineup was still potent, but each guy on the pitching staff was very important. The setup guys ( thats why I asked about Mantei)who for years in Boston were just throw in players became crucial parts of the puzzle as well, and when they worked things got much better....
If there is one thing that I learned from the 2004 Red Sox is that all 25 players have to consistently contribute at a high level, in their specific role to win...
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simonzelotes
I'm not down-playing pitching....It's just the most fragile and unpredictable of the main elements of a winning team....And if your team is solely built on it,it can turn on you....The Cubs were supposed to have the best NL pitching staff in 20 years,and right out of the chute Prior was hurt,Wood and Maddux struggled,and their closer was lost for the season...The D-backs can't build a team around Randy Johnson...They were trying to compare him with Steve Carlton on the '72 Phillies,who also lost over 100 games....
Geeze,if I could type faster I could go on and on about this subject...Defence can definitely inspire good pitching...That's one of the main reasons Johnson's record was mediocre with the D-backs...His defence and him never were on the same page...Your heart and soul of a team,I don't think,will be a pitcher...It's got to be one of the guys out there every day...The Cardinals,I thought,had an average starting staff,but a hell of a line-up,and the best coaching staff for pitchers(Duncan and LaRussa)...They made it to the series,but by then,nobody was going to stop the runaway Bosox train....
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mstar1
I dont know-the development this year of the Red Sox was interesting to watch though....First off the pitching staff stayed healthy for the first time that I remember, then it wasn't one guy, but two number 1 pitchers in Schilling and Martinez, a former 20 game winner (Lowe) as the number 3, a well rounded consistent guy as number 4 (Wakefield) and various # 5's (eventually settling on Arroyo), and for the first time in recent memory a good closer (Foulke). The Sox always hit well.
Even with that, for about three months they were spotty and played at .500. When the Nomar trade added Cabrera (a gold glover) at short and Mientkiewiez (another gold glover) at first, all of a sudden two or three ground ball singles a game were converted to outs and there were fewer errors on playable balls...Pitchers instead of having to get 28-29-30 outs per game were having to get 27 and sometimes less as basehits were robbed, its amazing what those little unsexy statistics did to the team and the pitching staffs confidence.
During August-September, all 5 starters started routinely going 7 nearly everyday, which had been rare for years ( it had seemed every other day someone was getting knocked out in the 3rd or 4th-which stressed the bullpen -sometimes for days afterward).
There may be other ways to win, but the Red Sox have always had a good hitting team, going back to the days of Ted Williams and Jimmie Foxx and they never did it. This year was the first time that I remember that the entire pitching staff was solid and didnt have a gaping hole somewhere and it paid off.
Not being close to the national league i dont know how the Cardinals did it over a season with the staff that they have ( unless Duncan and LaRussa have some serious good voodoo goin'), but I did see what happened when they ran into Schilling/Martinez/Lowe.
The Sox were lucky in that they had few injuries and when they did they had solid replacements all year, they also found their stride and gelled at just the right time, but I think the management played the right factors and put the key elements in place which included pitching and defense for it all to happen.
They're all of the Bill James school of baseball thinking which is all new to me but damn, it sure seems to work...It was pretty cool to watch.
Now the Sox are going after Renteria, another gold glover and after I personally got to hug a World Series Trophy (Thank You Jesus!Praise you! praise you!) I am beginning to see that as long as there is a Fenway Park there will be great hitters, but combining it with a pitching and defense approach is what makes winners.
..and I do agree with you--the heart and soul of a team will never really be a pitcher ( although a guy like Schilling was a spiritual leader this past year) or even one guy so much anymore. Jason Varitek was the sort of heart and soul guy for the Red Sox this year but he wasnt the stand alone guy with the biggest numbers. He was the guy who handled and gelled first the pitching staff, then the rest of the team for them all to perform to the best of their ability and into their roles and find themselves.
I hope the days of teams with a few prima donnas and a cast of thousands is gone, winning baseball takes 25 working together..
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simonzelotes
Heard on the radio this morning that the Red Sox did sign Renteria...
I think my overall point is,and I have to agree with you about 30 outs vs. 27 outs and the importance of defence,is that there is no shortage of pitchers in the majors who throw over 90 mph,who have a good reportrois(how do you spell that?)of breaking and off-speed stuff,that for whatever reason don't seem to be able to 'get it' between their ears...How many hitters would be described as 'crafty' or 'the professor'?...In other words,I think you could coach along pitching moreso than hitting...Perhaps,maybe...
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simonzelotes
There you go,adding,subtracting,editing again....'til you no longer have the Word of Mstar left...
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mstar1
Without pitching...thou shalt surely die early in the playoffs.
or
Without pitching..thou shalt not surely die early in the playoffs
Well what is it?
Somebodies GOT to be a Liar,
..if I was a bettin' man....
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mstar1
Well I agree with you that a lot of pitchers have great stuff but don't get it and the true art end of pitching can probably be learned or at least the mind can be applied in that direction, if they so choose.
That was the real value of Varitek and I suspect Matheny in St.Louis also. V-tek has agreat baseball mind and prepares arduously (is that the right word?) for every game with the pitching staff for hours and hours every day.
Some pitchers took the preparation part of pitching seriously and some didn't and it usually showed. Schilling blew me away -he would be taking detailed notes in the dugout in between innings and have several notebooks to refer to, on days that he pitched. Others like Lowe or Mendoza often just showed up empty headed and would wing it--it showed--even though they do have great stuff.
The majors are filled with stories of the guys with great stuff who never did anything,(how's Casey Fossum doing?) natural ability helps but isn't enough, pitching is an art, --90% of the game is half mental--
If I were a GM I'd be looking for the guys not only with stuff but who with meekness study diligently the scouting reports to shew themselves approved , otherwise there shall be weeping and cursing and booing and much gnashing of teeth.
This message has not been edited. mstarpneustos by: mstar1, December 16, 2004 17:55
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It is rumorred:
(is that the official motto of the offseason this year/)
as of about 5 minutes ago
Newsday Reports:
Johnson to Yankees, Vazquez to Dodgers, Brad Penny and Shawn Green to D'Backs in a three way deal. bunch of others involved...
I'll be expecting HillsBro to show up if its true...
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simonzelotes
Az. Republic says all that's pending are the players physicals....I think it's time for Randy to move on...The love fest is over...But hey,he brought the D-backs a Cy Young,a championship,and a perfect game...What more do they want after less than a decade of existence?....I'm glad to be able to see Greg Counsell play every day...He is like the consummate ball player,IMO...
I wish the D-backs would spend more energy marketing to their young baseball fans,and building their team around young players that will spend most of their careers with the team...Boston had guys like Teddy,Yaz,and others to keep you going through the lean years....Cubs had Williams,Santo and Banks....Nowadays,there's so many mercenary ballplayers that move around every two-three years that you wonder what uniform they'll be wearing if they get in the hall of fame...
Like ten years from now,will RJ be remembered as a Mariner,a D-back or a Yankee?...I'm sure you'll always think of Schilling as a Red Sox(Red Sock?)but he really spent most of his career w/ Philly...I guess my point is,free agency is a good thing,but these expansion teams like Florida and the D-backs,who built their teams mostly on free agents are not doing their part to develop fan loyalty among the young fans...Anyway,that's some of my morning baseball babbling...
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Yea I miss those days of the reserve clause when you had the same guys every year, and every trade was a major gasp. They felt like family that you got to know..Its a different game now, which has its pluses and minuses.
I dont know what teams like the D'Backs should do to fill their fan base--its probably a good idea to keep a few exciting guys around for a whole career, it locks an identity onto a team, I think..the 60's teams that I grew up with always had at least one name on each team that was a favorite an easily identifiable.
They don't have that problem up here we're born into being Red Sox fans that goes back generations...and it certainly doesn't hurt that the new ownership group has been great at listening to the fans and responding and making games a very fan friendly experience...
This thread is a year and a day old today...
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Well,we'll jes' hafta get ol' stRanger a snowcone...Hopefully a Ranger Red one...
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mstar1
Just goes to show ya---Some threads are as grass which today is and tommorrow is thrown in the oven, but baseball and baseball threads liveth and abideth forever...
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"In the big inning...In the big inning---yeah,...I like that...Wait!...I have to create the heavens and the earth first,else where will they play baseball?"
God.
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We traded Ruth for the bosses kid this year,a great trade and it worked out -well- you know how it worked out... our mourning was turned into joy.
He gets along well with the guys, helped pull the team together and pulled off a few miracles. I dont know when his contract is up or when or if he'll decide to move to another team, he hasn't been talking to the press much this offseason. I hope he stays forever, it makes for exciting baseball.
He's a real team kinda guy...
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The Dodgers nixed the three-way deal between them,the D-backs,and the Yankees that would have brought Randy Johnson to the Yanks...ESPN said that according to the Dodgers,the deal 'was never on the commisioner's table,waiting his approval'...LA never felt like it was getting enough out of the three-way deal...
It also looks like the Cubs are shopping Sosa...I never was one to like to play winter-time general manager...I like to wait 'til the season starts and see how the hand plays out...In some ways,Sosa had a real rotten year in a rather illustrious career,and maybe he could put last year behind him...I just don't know if he could do it with the Cubs,or w/o a little 'help from his friends'....
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Usage 8?
the boys from balco?
The growers of cork in South America?
All of the above?of whom do You speak?
Sammy's a little expensive for the year he had, and although his past looks great its hard to predict if his future is worth what he'll earn. I sorta doubt it myself
I've never really been into GMing either but I just finished reading "Moneyball", it was agreat read and it has become all that more interesting to watch the games behind the game.
Hey Wait--I clearly remember you requesting painkillers after Sosa's AB's a few short months ago....you want to go through that again?
If the Cubs could dump Sosa's salary they would have a shot at several quality players to replace him and fill in some gaps I imagine...
O and another thing-
It was never on the table?? i wish ESPN (whose been running it on the ticker every 30 seconds for the past week)and these other sports writers would quit announcing stuff every five minutes that proves not to be true.
Sorry-I got the pre Christmas grumpies
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Yeah,I know what I said about Sosa's bat and painkillers,but you said so yourself that baseball is one of those love/hate relationships...See how you people are?...Blaming the victim....
I guess I just don't see Sammy as the team leader....Maybe that's the Cubs problem...They tried to make him the heart and soul of the team,when in reality,while he has the most potent bat,and can show lots of enthusiasm,I don't know if he really has it upstairs to lead the team...Plus,his English ain't so good...Ok,my bad...
I saw him up close last spring during workouts and he is a hulk...He almost isn't natural looking...I have a photograph of Ted Kluszewski when he played for the Redlegs in Cincy,where he's showing off his big arms for the camera(he used to have to cut his uniform shirt sleeves to get his arms through them)and the muscle-tone difference between him and Sosa is like night and day...Maybe it is his friends at Balco....
I've been looking at a book called 'Take Me Out To The Ballpark' by Josh Levanthal...Nothing really brainy about it,but it's got great photographs and history of ballparks ,past and present,as well as many from the minor and Negro Leagues....I had to look up what Lifted Up mentioned about there being a Wrigley Field in Los Angeles...Same owner...The Hollywood Stars played there in the '50's(The first and only team,I think,to wear shorts as part of their baseball uniform,and The Los Angeles Angels in '60 and '61,with those ugly halos on top of their hats...They also filmed the old 'Home Run Derby there,which will still air once in a while on ESPN Classic...
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I like them old ballpark books that have seemed to haver sprouted up the last few years, They even sell the models now, the pictures of old Fenway that have been unearthed recently with a playable hill in left before the wall was built are great. I haven't been to that many minor league parks (shame on me), but the oldest in the nation , or so they say, is about 15 miles from me, Wahconah Park in Pittsfield Mass was built around 1890, its still in use but faces the wrong way, so there is about a 20 minute break about the second or third inning every game to let the sun go down in the outfield. Its quirky that way, but gives you that oldtimey baseball feel just by being there. Jim Ball Four Bouton,a local here is trying to get it restored, its still a great place to watch a game...
...sounds like a good book...I wonder how much of a fans appreciation of the game is framed by the stadium. I know Fenway to me is a shrine, maybe you feel somewhatthe same about Wrigley, Do fans who grew up in The cookie cutter stadiums experience the games the same way as fans in Wrigley or Fenway or Ebbets field or other places that have generations of history tied to them?
Its late--Im ramblin'
....at 10 I liked those halo's and watching them turn Jim Fregosi to Bobby Knoop to Don Mincher DP's, I don't know if I could watch shorts though...wouldv'e like to seen the House of David with the beards --theres nothing quite like cult baseball.
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So's I post here and quick check to see if the Red Sox have picked up that Japanese second baseman they've been looking at before I go to bed.
Nothing quite like these Japanese Sportswriters to make things crystal clear
Well Im certainly glad I read that article -it cleared up everything...
" guerrila warfare is not definitely promised" ??
What kind of baseball are they playing over there? I'm gonna have to check out a Japanese game someday...
time for bed
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