I think we're all going to be surprised (or not) by the numbers and age range of the folks on the list... I know most of your players aren't old enough to remember when Reagan was president but before it's all over, not just this initial release, I don't think any team will go unscathed... (I'm including minor leaguers as well)...
If it includes former players especially. Indeed, there were minor leaguers suspended for steroids last summer...
If it includes former players especially. Indeed, there were minor leaguers suspended for steroids last summer...
NYTimes is already reporting that the Mitchell report will be harshly critical of both Selig and the players' union... and will expose a deep rooted drug culture...
My hunch is there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth tomorrow, and plenty of what we saw in AZ a couple months ago when Matt Williams name came up regarding HGH... basically a lot of rationalizing BS in attempts to minimize the problem and quiet down the chatter as soon as possible, in hopes that the issue will go away.
That's my belief right now and I'm sticking to it.
What the ultimate change in the situation will be... as little change as both sides can get away with.
Clemens name is in the report no less than 83 times, I cant find Varitek but I havent read the whole thing yet. there were alot of leaks that werent right....
I got the .pdf file... it's a total of 409 pages. There is NO one single list page with player names.
I did find one interesting item in it so far. In 2000, a long time minor leaguer, Alex Cabrera, played 31 games with the Dbacks. He his a MASSIVE HR in his first major league at bat. It always caused me to wonder why this guy didn't stay with the team. He went on to become a major HR hitter in Japan.
He is named as a person who had steroids shipped to him at the BOB. Apparently, in at least one incident, such a shipment was intercepted by the team which reported it to the league and sent the drugs to the DEA for analysis. The package apparently included over the counter diet pills AND injectable steroids.
Apparently, Matt Williams is named in the report, but I have not found that yet... and apparently, Luis Gonzales is NOT included. But Juan Gonzales IS named.
Anyway, I have the Mitchell press conference on ESPN on my tv right now... it's in the Q and A stage...
It looks like Clemens is going to be a primary focus of media questions and subsequent reports.
If you are interested the names start on about page 145 or so.
I honestly dont know what will happen to most of those guys many of them were breaking federal laws, whether it could stand up in court i sdoubtful, it doesnt seem to have been Mitchell's intent....I do hope that his recommendations will be adhered to and this period can finally be over.....
Heck... Hicks named Gonzales last year at the press conference announcing the signing of Sammy!
It's OK to admit that some on your team might have or did use Rocky... just accept it... it's part of the game today sadly.... :(
I searched the report for the word Arizona and came up with several names. It's also likely that many big names NOT in the report are cheaters even though not in the report. And some of the names are associated with steroids and some only with HGH. I'm not making the distinction yet.
Arizona names:
Jason Grimsley P
Jack Cust 1B, has played in the majors, but was in the Dbacks farm system
Chris Donnels inf played for several teams, never really made a consistent career, but did play some games for the Dbacks.
Stephen Randolph P played a season or two with the Dbacks... mainly a reliever... eventually was traded... may not be playing anymore.
Matt Herges P few games with Dbacks... many more games with other teams.
Troy Glaus 3B one season with Dbacks... wasn't he WS MVP one year? went to Toronto after Dbacks.
Jose Guillen OF very little time with Dbacks... later played with Seattle.
and of course, Matt Williams.
Again, this is only a very limited set of findings on individuals... but clear evidence of a pervasive drug culture in MLB.
I also understand the players union will soon have a press conference, as will MLB.
And Tom, I'm not in denial about Dbacks using steroids or HGH... My comment last night was simply a reflection that there's no obvious power hitter getting significant advantage via steroids currently on the team... obviously, that doesn't mean there's no current users.
If you are interested the names start on about page 145 or so.
I honestly dont know what will happen to most of those guys many of them were breaking federal laws, whether it could stand up in court i sdoubtful, it doesnt seem to have been Mitchell's intent....I do hope that his recommendations will be adhered to and this period can finally be over.....
Mitchell bluntly replied to a reporter asking about whether he was prepared to respond to subpeonas, by saying there is no evidence that any federal prosecutor has or will go after any individual user...
Mitchell recommends NO punishment for those cited in his report.
I missed that I was reading the report AND half listening to him on ESPN-
multitasking is not my forte
that's why I'm listening to talk radio while reading the pdf while Tivo-ing ESPN for watching later...
I gotta tell ya... one thing this does (swiftly) is exonerate Canseco immediately. He took so much crap for his book... one thing I'm doing though is going out to get Game of Shadows[/]... once I'm done with it I'll be happy to start circulating it to you guys...
Although I've vowed to not be surprised about this... I am saddened to see Pujols on there... and (so far) am happy that I haven't seen or heard Junior's name mentioned...
I wish Giamatti hadn't died so soon... I wish MLB had a real commissioner... the players can only get away with what the owners let them, Selig is a puppet (I know I'm not imparting revelation here)... you didn't hear any owner's complaining during the summer of 98 (that's the right summer isn't it?)... but they all sure were quick to slam Conseco... not that he's an angel, but at least he's appearing a great deal more honest...
Although I've vowed to not be surprised about this... I am saddened to see Pujols on there... and (so far) am happy that I haven't seen or heard Junior's name mentioned...
I wish Giamatti hadn't died so soon... I wish MLB had a real commissioner... the players can only get away with what the owners let them, Selig is a puppet (I know I'm not imparting revelation here)... you didn't hear any owner's complaining during the summer of 98 (that's the right summer isn't it?)... but they all sure were quick to slam Conseco... not that he's an angel, but at least he's appearing a great deal more honest...
That was my initial reaction to seeing Pujols name... he's supposed to be one of the good guys... however, he did have a hard time last season... perhaps due to coming off of steroids.
I'm not sure Giamatti would have been able to do any different than what we've seen. Fay Vincent, wasn't he forced out to make room for Selig? I read last night in the NYTimes that Vincent had wanted to try to do something about steroids... I'll be very interested in what he might have to say in the next days...
My first reaction is that the roids didn't help alot of those guys.
With a list like that, I can only think it's the tip of the iceberg, and wonder how he determined who got named and who didn't.They can't be the only ones.
I didn't see Pujols or Pudge. I also didn't see Veritek, who's name was being thrown around this morning.
I do see alot of lawsuits ahead. as this guy seems to be judge and jury, with 'hearsay' being the predominant evidence. At least it certainly wasn't from testing, which is the only real proof.
I'm sure they all or most did it, I just don't think you can prove it. Now every name on the list is smeared forever, and I'm certain many other players are breathing a sigh of relief about now.
I haven't gotten to page 75 yet... I'm actually scan-reading the stinking thing... parts of it are interesting... Like the same year that some GMs were saying that steroid usage was twenty to thirty percent (and one thought an entire AL team was using) and Selig says 'I wasn't aware that we had a problem'... hmmm... wonder if that AL team was the stRangers?
My first reaction is that the roids didn't help alot of those guys.
Well you have to wonder what the natural abilities of some of the smaller names on the list would have been without it.
There were a lot of names not on the list that i would have expected because that fit my preconceived "profile" (Trot Nixon gained about 30 lbs between 03 and 04 and his slugging went up about .100, he then went on to get injured and declined steadily after testing became regular)
Others, like Clemens , who was 40-39 his last four years in Boston, then jumped to 41-13 during his 2 years in Toronto seemed likely and were named.
The players that were named bought from the wrong guys and (what the heck were they thinking?) paid by check or did something else that was traceable...
I gotta go Bud is about getiing ready to speak....although it was partially veiled he was implicated in this whole mess as well
the players association is tougher than a rhino, rhino... I'm on page 109 now and while I have been reading names, so far it seems to be a re-counting of all the different memorandi and investigations (public and private) that have taken place to date... unless it gets different later on I'm beginning to say to myself "wtf is up with all of this? we could've paid a good secretary to organize all of this stuff"...
Well here is a little release ... I'm tired of all these effing hot shot roids guys making millions ... and bonds not giving a sheet about the fans ... I suppose all the names in the video could be replaced with some athletes .. but this may provide some comic relief ....do not click if the eff word offends you ... it it used twice in the video I think, but I could be wrong ...
I see rick ankiel .. the comeback kid ... what a great story ...
just take steroids and you too can make a comeback .
well, if this is not verified, how can they list these guys?
Can't they just make a list of exactly what is legal, and do major testing?
Too much money involved for this to stay pure I guess ... support your local little league team ...
What the report does is use the names of guys they had somebody provide evidence on. Like with Dbacks' Alex Cabrera... it doesn't say "he used steroids" but does say that the team intercepted a package, told Cabrera the package had gotten lost, sent the contents to the DEA for analysis, and this is what they found in the package. But before the DEA could report, Cabrera was playing in Japan, so they didn't bother asking the union for permission to test him.
It seems there's a lot of that kind of thing.
Which boils down to circumstantial evidence against individuals, but so many incidents that the case is made that the entire culture of MLB is saturated with steroids.
btw, I took a nap... so, I didn't listen to Bud or Donald.
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I missed the LLWS. The boy had baseball practice 4-7. Playing in a USSSA tournament this coming weekend. The new season has just started. Can ya'll believe we are in September of the ML baseball s
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Giants sign OF Aaron Rowand to a five-year contract worth $60m.
I should've practiced year 'round instead of playing those other sports.
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Rocky
If it includes former players especially. Indeed, there were minor leaguers suspended for steroids last summer...
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Rocky
NYTimes is already reporting that the Mitchell report will be harshly critical of both Selig and the players' union... and will expose a deep rooted drug culture...
My hunch is there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth tomorrow, and plenty of what we saw in AZ a couple months ago when Matt Williams name came up regarding HGH... basically a lot of rationalizing BS in attempts to minimize the problem and quiet down the chatter as soon as possible, in hopes that the issue will go away.
That's my belief right now and I'm sticking to it.
What the ultimate change in the situation will be... as little change as both sides can get away with.
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Tom Strange
Nice article about Michael Young HERE.
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mstar1
as for me ---Its a snow day,a good old New England whiteout, the fridge is full and the World Series DVD (I should say 8 DVD set) just arrived.
Im good!
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Rocky
The report has not yet been officially released and there are already reports that Clemens (duh!), Pettitte, Pujols and Veritek are on the list.
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mstar1
Clemens name is in the report no less than 83 times, I cant find Varitek but I havent read the whole thing yet. there were alot of leaks that werent right....
The Mitchell Report
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Rocky
I got the .pdf file... it's a total of 409 pages. There is NO one single list page with player names.
I did find one interesting item in it so far. In 2000, a long time minor leaguer, Alex Cabrera, played 31 games with the Dbacks. He his a MASSIVE HR in his first major league at bat. It always caused me to wonder why this guy didn't stay with the team. He went on to become a major HR hitter in Japan.
He is named as a person who had steroids shipped to him at the BOB. Apparently, in at least one incident, such a shipment was intercepted by the team which reported it to the league and sent the drugs to the DEA for analysis. The package apparently included over the counter diet pills AND injectable steroids.
Apparently, Matt Williams is named in the report, but I have not found that yet... and apparently, Luis Gonzales is NOT included. But Juan Gonzales IS named.
Anyway, I have the Mitchell press conference on ESPN on my tv right now... it's in the Q and A stage...
It looks like Clemens is going to be a primary focus of media questions and subsequent reports.
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Tom Strange
Heck... Hicks named Gonzales last year at the press conference announcing the signing of Sammy!
It's OK to admit that some on your team might have or did use Rocky... just accept it... it's part of the game today sadly.... :(
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mstar1
If you are interested the names start on about page 145 or so.
I honestly dont know what will happen to most of those guys many of them were breaking federal laws, whether it could stand up in court i sdoubtful, it doesnt seem to have been Mitchell's intent....I do hope that his recommendations will be adhered to and this period can finally be over.....
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Rocky
I searched the report for the word Arizona and came up with several names. It's also likely that many big names NOT in the report are cheaters even though not in the report. And some of the names are associated with steroids and some only with HGH. I'm not making the distinction yet.
Arizona names:
Jason Grimsley P
Jack Cust 1B, has played in the majors, but was in the Dbacks farm system
Chris Donnels inf played for several teams, never really made a consistent career, but did play some games for the Dbacks.
Stephen Randolph P played a season or two with the Dbacks... mainly a reliever... eventually was traded... may not be playing anymore.
Matt Herges P few games with Dbacks... many more games with other teams.
Troy Glaus 3B one season with Dbacks... wasn't he WS MVP one year? went to Toronto after Dbacks.
Jose Guillen OF very little time with Dbacks... later played with Seattle.
and of course, Matt Williams.
Again, this is only a very limited set of findings on individuals... but clear evidence of a pervasive drug culture in MLB.
I also understand the players union will soon have a press conference, as will MLB.
And Tom, I'm not in denial about Dbacks using steroids or HGH... My comment last night was simply a reflection that there's no obvious power hitter getting significant advantage via steroids currently on the team... obviously, that doesn't mean there's no current users.
Mitchell bluntly replied to a reporter asking about whether he was prepared to respond to subpeonas, by saying there is no evidence that any federal prosecutor has or will go after any individual user...
Mitchell recommends NO punishment for those cited in his report.
Those PLAYERS named in the report, that is.
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mstar1
I missed that I was reading the report AND half listening to him on ESPN-
multitasking is not my forte
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Tom Strange
that's why I'm listening to talk radio while reading the pdf while Tivo-ing ESPN for watching later...
I gotta tell ya... one thing this does (swiftly) is exonerate Canseco immediately. He took so much crap for his book... one thing I'm doing though is going out to get Game of Shadows[/]... once I'm done with it I'll be happy to start circulating it to you guys...
Although I've vowed to not be surprised about this... I am saddened to see Pujols on there... and (so far) am happy that I haven't seen or heard Junior's name mentioned...
I wish Giamatti hadn't died so soon... I wish MLB had a real commissioner... the players can only get away with what the owners let them, Selig is a puppet (I know I'm not imparting revelation here)... you didn't hear any owner's complaining during the summer of 98 (that's the right summer isn't it?)... but they all sure were quick to slam Conseco... not that he's an angel, but at least he's appearing a great deal more honest...
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Rocky
That was my initial reaction to seeing Pujols name... he's supposed to be one of the good guys... however, he did have a hard time last season... perhaps due to coming off of steroids.
I'm not sure Giamatti would have been able to do any different than what we've seen. Fay Vincent, wasn't he forced out to make room for Selig? I read last night in the NYTimes that Vincent had wanted to try to do something about steroids... I'll be very interested in what he might have to say in the next days...
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Tom Strange
I had first heard that Pujols and Pudge both were on the list... now I'm hearing otherwise on both...
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hiway29
My first reaction is that the roids didn't help alot of those guys.
With a list like that, I can only think it's the tip of the iceberg, and wonder how he determined who got named and who didn't.They can't be the only ones.
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hiway29
I didn't see Pujols or Pudge. I also didn't see Veritek, who's name was being thrown around this morning.
I do see alot of lawsuits ahead. as this guy seems to be judge and jury, with 'hearsay' being the predominant evidence. At least it certainly wasn't from testing, which is the only real proof.
I'm sure they all or most did it, I just don't think you can prove it. Now every name on the list is smeared forever, and I'm certain many other players are breathing a sigh of relief about now.
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Tom Strange
I haven't gotten to page 75 yet... I'm actually scan-reading the stinking thing... parts of it are interesting... Like the same year that some GMs were saying that steroid usage was twenty to thirty percent (and one thought an entire AL team was using) and Selig says 'I wasn't aware that we had a problem'... hmmm... wonder if that AL team was the stRangers?
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rhino
I see rick ankiel .. the comeback kid ... what a great story ...
just take steroids and you too can make a comeback .
well, if this is not verified, how can they list these guys?
Can't they just make a list of exactly what is legal, and do major testing?
Too much money involved for this to stay pure I guess ... support your local little league team ...
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mstar1
Well you have to wonder what the natural abilities of some of the smaller names on the list would have been without it.
There were a lot of names not on the list that i would have expected because that fit my preconceived "profile" (Trot Nixon gained about 30 lbs between 03 and 04 and his slugging went up about .100, he then went on to get injured and declined steadily after testing became regular)
Others, like Clemens , who was 40-39 his last four years in Boston, then jumped to 41-13 during his 2 years in Toronto seemed likely and were named.
The players that were named bought from the wrong guys and (what the heck were they thinking?) paid by check or did something else that was traceable...
I gotta go Bud is about getiing ready to speak....although it was partially veiled he was implicated in this whole mess as well
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Tom Strange
the players association is tougher than a rhino, rhino... I'm on page 109 now and while I have been reading names, so far it seems to be a re-counting of all the different memorandi and investigations (public and private) that have taken place to date... unless it gets different later on I'm beginning to say to myself "wtf is up with all of this? we could've paid a good secretary to organize all of this stuff"...
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rhino
Well here is a little release ... I'm tired of all these effing hot shot roids guys making millions ... and bonds not giving a sheet about the fans ... I suppose all the names in the video could be replaced with some athletes .. but this may provide some comic relief ....do not click if the eff word offends you ... it it used twice in the video I think, but I could be wrong ...
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Rocky
What the report does is use the names of guys they had somebody provide evidence on. Like with Dbacks' Alex Cabrera... it doesn't say "he used steroids" but does say that the team intercepted a package, told Cabrera the package had gotten lost, sent the contents to the DEA for analysis, and this is what they found in the package. But before the DEA could report, Cabrera was playing in Japan, so they didn't bother asking the union for permission to test him.
It seems there's a lot of that kind of thing.
Which boils down to circumstantial evidence against individuals, but so many incidents that the case is made that the entire culture of MLB is saturated with steroids.
btw, I took a nap... so, I didn't listen to Bud or Donald.
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thx Rocky .. yeah, it seems plenty were willing to sweep a lot under the effing rug ...
I guess it is too late to save it .. seperate stats for roids users and non roids users?
when a roids guy gets a double, they make him go back to first?
are corked bats still bad?
glad Pujols wasn't listed ... he sorta fit the profile I guess, but was seen as good ...
but Ankiel was such a great story ... now it is such a bad story .... if things go bad .. CHEAT ...
that one rally makes me sick ... oh well ... pro sports went bad long ago ...
give me replays of the gas house gang ... they weren't "pure" but they were better than the roids gang
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