Gees you should have waved, I know those Kent Falls well, Im only about 30 minutes up Rt 7 from there...Its nice country that grabbed me --well about 8 years ago I guess--I just said screw it and moved here. Its all worked out well --somehow---anyway
My guess is that Gossage will squeak by and go in.
There are notable names, such as Tommy John, Dale Murphy, and Jim Rice, but I see nosure things on the list .
Mattingly was headed straight for the hall before his back went out, and he didn't pile up enough seasons. To me ,he belongs, but longevity seems to be a huge factor-which I often disagree with. How many players are more famous than Roger Maris ? Who won back to back mvp's besides the home run record by the way.
I've always disagreed (somewhat) with the 'length of career' thing... to me it should be about 'best at position' (or near the best) and/or transcendency (if that's a word).
How many votes do the writers get? Jim Rice should have been in long ago. Mattingly... why not? I'd also go along with Gossage, Morris, Lee Smith and Alan Trammell...
Im not sure how many votes they get, or if they just vote for everyone who they deem worthy.
I think it could be Rice and Gossage's big chance, There's not anyone that jumps out and screams he has gotta be in, like there is in most years..
I go back and forth with my thinking about the Hall, Rice had some good/ great years for his time --so did Gossage. Some of the others did too (Raines, Dawson Trammell, Murphy...)but I was in some frikkin cult during their time and lost my grip on following things except from an extreme distance...
Does a few good/great years and a solid career make for the Hall of Fame? Im really not sure. Koufax didnt play long but he absolutely dominated and absolutely belongs, I expect that Pedro Martinez will be in similarly someday..
Some guys like Blyleven and Tommy John ( who I both like) almost could get in on longevity alone. they both won alot of games but werent much better than .500 pitchers....do they get rewarded for that?
Its not the Hall Of Really Good, nor imo should it come to that.
I guess these are things every voter has to figure out.
I dont know--but when I start seeing names like Shawon Dunston and Brady Anderson on the list , I think that maybe its time to elect no one for a few years and rethink the whole process before Cooperstown starts to get too overcrowded and it becomes the Hall of The Above Average
there is something wonderful about his rhythms, cadence easy delivery and sonority (is that even a word?) of his voice that makes listening to him always a pleasantt and enjoyable experience..
I wouldnt say that about many, if any, other announcers--even the ones I like--
How long has he been at it? Ive heard him tell stories of announcing way back in Ebbets Field...
I know for me, since my very early days, that he is so connected to the thought of baseball to me, that all I have to do is hear him utter one word in that voice, and no matter what he says my mind immediately goes toa long summer night...
Vin started with the Dodgers in 1952 (!), unless I'm mistaken. Easy enough to look up. He moved with them from Brooklyn and of course has been with them ever since.
This means he's been broadcasting Dodger games since the year I was born !
Vinny is so much a part of baseball, and all that makes it good, that it seems inconceivable that he won't be around forever.
Yet, every year, there's some young buck complaining somewhere about how Vinny needs to go. I remember hearing that in the mid 80's when Vin and Joe Garagiola did Saturday games for NBC. How they had 'lost it' and were 'behind the times'. Well it's 20 some years later and Vin is still going strong.
You're lucky --Vin IS baseball, I have listened to some guys that are appallingly bad and borderline crass, not only IS Scully baseball but he exudes genuine class and dignity that the game still (and will always) need.
Im sure we could enjoy a game together, although I may drive you nuts
I watched a video today that had newspaper articles referring to the rivalry and animosity between Boston and NY baseball fans that had reached new and unprecedented heights ---and That article was written in 1903.
We come from a grand tradition....
I dont know if you saw the presidential debates the other night, with all the stuff happening in the world that needs to be straightened out ---wars, poverty, famine, disease
Giuliani got called on the carpet with this huge final question... the climax... of the debate---deciding who will soon run the world...
Well of course there are more important things going on in the world.
Giuliani did take a huge amount of heat in NY, for coming out for the Red Sox while campaigning in New England.
Romney I dont take seriously, he's a poser, he didnt even get the years right--he plays to any crowd he is in. Giuiliani is a Yanks fan , a real one, though.
Depends on the fan, I know some Nyers and some Sox fans who wouldn't think of rooting for that other team unless they were facing a team of child molesters and even then it would be questionable...
I thought it was odd it was brought up in an election debate, it does show you the (stupid)face of American politics. If Rudy goes further some one will probably bring up that old flip flopper issue that they always seem to drag out every election..
...
according to todays paper the Sox offered Crisp, Lester, and two top prospects for Johan Santana, and will not offer Ellsbury or Buchholz
Which is what I said on the last page--glad to hear that they are listening :)
Whats next the winter meetings or GM meetings? If i were the Twins, unless some deal was just perfect. I'd probably wait until then and wave Santana around in hopes that someone would overshoot, which they might.....but I think the Red Sox have a good shot at him...unless his financial demands get too extreme--
I just saw some talking heads sports show that said the Sox are the 'frontrunners' for Santana. After a few minutes they referred to themselves as Sox fans. I never saw them before, and don't know where the show came from. It was some cable show on channel 408 or something.
If the Sox do get him, I guess it's 'lights out' for the AL-at least come playoff time. I then read how the Rays payroll may 'skyrocket' to 38 million this year, up from the 25 million it was last year. They should just have the Sox and Yankees duke it out for 162 games, and let the other teams play each other. With that kind of disparity, there really is something wrong somewhere. As much as I like Hunter with the Angels, he really should be a Twin. Watching good players come up with small market teams , only to bolt to the big money teams gets kind of sickening after awhile.This whole Santana thing is only the Twins protecting themselves before he jumps ship next year. Of course as a Yankee fan, I'm with the team that's mostly to blame, though the Angels, Sox(both colors) and Cubs are catching up real fast.
I guess I'm an oddball fan. I rooted for the Sox in '67, '75, and '86. Really didn't care one way or the other this year. Just wanted a competitive series.
I've always (with rare exception) rooted that way as well... If you're an AL fan, you root for the AL, NL for NL... that punk that asked the question was a member of the lost generation that thinks baseball games are just someplace to go drink and yell profanities...
The other day the Twinkies sent a RHP, .... and a closer prospect to Tampa for OF Delmon Young, .... and another OF... so maybe they'll not be going after Coco and he'll be on his way to his rightful place in our CF... or... they could just be stocking the pantry with 'players to be named later'...
(P.S. the young Jedi beat his Master last night... and yes, I'm aware that there were a couple of home field calls)
Id like to see the salaries come down and there be more parity in the league but it seems like that is going to have to be a long term goal for baseball if they even think along those line.
I cant remember all that well, the strike year in the 90's their was a lot of talk of fans leaving the game and not coming back. That wasnt that long ago.
MLB responded with a fullfrontal marketing and media blitz which has worked well, especially in the high media market areas like NY, who immediately took advantage of it, the Red Sox jumped on the bandwagon out of necessity and have been able to keep up.
I read the figures about a week ago and MLB revenues are actually gigormously increasing every year. I hope the smaller teams that have been left in the lurch adapt their organizational philosophies and structures to go and grab themselves a piece of the pie, because the Yankees (with a new billion dollar state of the art stadium) certainly aren't going to let up, and the Red Sox in order to stay competitive with them really cant either.
I think the pieces are out there for most organizations to increase their revenues, if not to mega team status, at least enough to stay mostly competive, but the same old same old business style of the 70's, 80's or 90's just isnt going to work anymore.
i have said before how surprised I am that more teams dont cultivate their own TV networks, the investment isnt all that much for the returns it brings
For both the Yankees and the Red Sox that is a massive revenue stream--probably equal to as much if not more than they make at the box office. -never mind doing the obvious things like increasing fan interest.
Baseball, even though it is basically the same great game, is changing alot, as it always has---the business aspect which I dont care all that much for, but is necessary, is
almost as much of a creative 'game' as the game on the field.
I'll be hoping that things even out somehow, but the execs are going to have to be gutsy and move out of some comfort zones to do it...
......
Tom was posting as I was writing
and he'll be on his way to his rightful place in our CF
i have said before how surprised I am that more teams dont cultivate their own TV networks, the investment isnt all that much for the returns it brings
For both the Yankees and the Red Sox that is a massive revenue stream--probably equal to as much if not more than they make at the box office. -never mind doing the obvious things like increasing fan interest.
I think the local TV deals are critical... Hicks has a pretty good TV deal, I'm thinking as good as or better than anyone's but NYY and Bos... but he (in the past) has not spent money wisely... (I've heard talk of them 'roofing' the ballpark while they've got all the cranes already there for the new Cowboys stadium, that would help us get a lot of players I think)
Besides the heat, I've heard that the stRangers have a 'losing tradition'... but I think (I hope) that we're on our way to growing from within and building something...
A good GM and an owner who will just give him the money to do his job are so critical. We liked Doug Melvin but Hicks kept trying to be (what he thought was) George.
I'm telling you... I wish they'd give the Marlin's GM whatever he wants to come here... that guy's a genius...
That seemed alittle too predictable so I tried --antichrist of baseball--instead.
I got at least 10 different antichrists.
Craigs gonna hafta teach a new class!
Of course you know who came up first and most frequent
then in order
Bud Selig second
"Barroid" Bonds
Jay Johnstone
Billy Beane
the "Yankmees" (from an A's fan)
Roger Clemens
The Red Sox
Curt Schilling
George Steinbrenner
that was just the first two pages.
The most entertainiing article to me was the one on Jay Johnstone
who proposed an independant league that would have a unique scoring innovation, Homeruns by the trailing team in the seventh inning would be worth twice the actual runs...ie a basesloaded homerun would be worth 8 runs...... :unsure:
I dont know if his league ever got off the ground or not--I think Ill suggest to him dispensing with center fielders altogether as a way to increase excitement---It worked when I was 8 and not enough kids showed up
geez-we never thought of no centerfielder-it was always right field that was done away with, and anything hit that way was foul-which seems wacky in retrospect.
When one of the few lefty hitters came up, the outfielders groaned and moved over to right and center, making left field foul.
We also often didn't have enough players for first or second base, so a grounder to short was thrown to the pitcher for an out , on those sad days.
We actually did the exact same thing -no Rfer, throw to the pitcher etc...--I stretched my post a little _ I had just read about a fan in 1903 who wanted to do away with the CFer so I wrote it that way...my bad
I was reading an article by John Thorn this morning when I stumbled onTHIS TIMELINE that I found interesting on the development of the game and the rules...I dont know if they ever did play withoiut a CF but it does make reference to a D.L. Adams who invented the shortstop position in 1840. and alot ofother little tidbits.
an interesting caveat:
The 'rivalry' seems to stretch back at least a few hundred years
this from 1857-
The Knickerbocker rules become known as the New York Game in contrast to the Massachusetts Game favored in and around the Boston area.
I still favor our game ...
............
heres an engraving from
1843 for a lazy Saturday morning.
The foul lines are a little spread out, there are wickets for bases, the pitcher is pitching underhand but it still looks like baseball to me.....
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kimberly
I missed the LLWS. The boy had baseball practice 4-7. Playing in a USSSA tournament this coming weekend. The new season has just started. Can ya'll believe we are in September of the ML baseball s
mstar1
Dont scare me like that Bolsh--the way you posted I wasnt sure if it was a done deal--I had to go check....Im on the fence whether to go for Halliday or not---I'd love to have him but I'd hate to give
hiway29
I love those fan trades where players you don't care about, plus a 'prospect', are offered up for a major player. Yeah, the Jays will jump at that deal.
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mstar1
Gees you should have waved, I know those Kent Falls well, Im only about 30 minutes up Rt 7 from there...Its nice country that grabbed me --well about 8 years ago I guess--I just said screw it and moved here. Its all worked out well --somehow---anyway
Whos goin in the Hall this year?
it seems like thin class this year...
HERE"S the list...
The game is March 29th---I have to wonder if Wally Moon with throw out the first pitch...
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Tom Strange
How many votes do we get?
How's come they aren't playing in Chavez Ravine?
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hiway29
Someone had the idea of recreating the first 4 years of the Dodgers in LA, so it's back to the Coliseum.
I suspect it will make me appreciate Dodger Stadium all the more.
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hiway29
My guess is that Gossage will squeak by and go in.
There are notable names, such as Tommy John, Dale Murphy, and Jim Rice, but I see nosure things on the list .
Mattingly was headed straight for the hall before his back went out, and he didn't pile up enough seasons. To me ,he belongs, but longevity seems to be a huge factor-which I often disagree with. How many players are more famous than Roger Maris ? Who won back to back mvp's besides the home run record by the way.
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Tom Strange
I've always disagreed (somewhat) with the 'length of career' thing... to me it should be about 'best at position' (or near the best) and/or transcendency (if that's a word).
How many votes do the writers get? Jim Rice should have been in long ago. Mattingly... why not? I'd also go along with Gossage, Morris, Lee Smith and Alan Trammell...
but I'm easy.
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mstar1
Im not sure how many votes they get, or if they just vote for everyone who they deem worthy.
I think it could be Rice and Gossage's big chance, There's not anyone that jumps out and screams he has gotta be in, like there is in most years..
I go back and forth with my thinking about the Hall, Rice had some good/ great years for his time --so did Gossage. Some of the others did too (Raines, Dawson Trammell, Murphy...)but I was in some frikkin cult during their time and lost my grip on following things except from an extreme distance...
Does a few good/great years and a solid career make for the Hall of Fame? Im really not sure. Koufax didnt play long but he absolutely dominated and absolutely belongs, I expect that Pedro Martinez will be in similarly someday..
Some guys like Blyleven and Tommy John ( who I both like) almost could get in on longevity alone. they both won alot of games but werent much better than .500 pitchers....do they get rewarded for that?
Its not the Hall Of Really Good, nor imo should it come to that.
I guess these are things every voter has to figure out.
I dont know--but when I start seeing names like Shawon Dunston and Brady Anderson on the list , I think that maybe its time to elect no one for a few years and rethink the whole process before Cooperstown starts to get too overcrowded and it becomes the Hall of The Above Average
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Tom Strange
Well... it's the big Eight Oh for Vin Scully...
Happy Birthday Vin! ...and many more!
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mstar1
amen to that.
I hope he goes for a long way yet..
there is something wonderful about his rhythms, cadence easy delivery and sonority (is that even a word?) of his voice that makes listening to him always a pleasantt and enjoyable experience..
I wouldnt say that about many, if any, other announcers--even the ones I like--
He is in a class by himself.
Happy Birthday...
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hiway29
I'm so fortunate to hear Vin all season long, as I've said many times here.
I'm making sure to appreciate him while we have him- which hopefully will be years to come.
He looks great and hasn't missed a beat, so there's reason to be optimistic.
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mstar1
How long has he been at it? Ive heard him tell stories of announcing way back in Ebbets Field...
I know for me, since my very early days, that he is so connected to the thought of baseball to me, that all I have to do is hear him utter one word in that voice, and no matter what he says my mind immediately goes toa long summer night...
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hiway29
Vin started with the Dodgers in 1952 (!), unless I'm mistaken. Easy enough to look up. He moved with them from Brooklyn and of course has been with them ever since.
This means he's been broadcasting Dodger games since the year I was born !
Vinny is so much a part of baseball, and all that makes it good, that it seems inconceivable that he won't be around forever.
Yet, every year, there's some young buck complaining somewhere about how Vinny needs to go. I remember hearing that in the mid 80's when Vin and Joe Garagiola did Saturday games for NBC. How they had 'lost it' and were 'behind the times'. Well it's 20 some years later and Vin is still going strong.
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mstar1
You're lucky --Vin IS baseball, I have listened to some guys that are appallingly bad and borderline crass, not only IS Scully baseball but he exudes genuine class and dignity that the game still (and will always) need.
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hiway29
Hey, Mstar and I have finally found something we completely agree on !
Just kidding. Actually, I think we agree on most things. If not for that incessant rivalry....
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mstar1
Im sure we could enjoy a game together, although I may drive you nuts
I watched a video today that had newspaper articles referring to the rivalry and animosity between Boston and NY baseball fans that had reached new and unprecedented heights ---and That article was written in 1903.
We come from a grand tradition....
I dont know if you saw the presidential debates the other night, with all the stuff happening in the world that needs to be straightened out ---wars, poverty, famine, disease
Giuliani got called on the carpet with this huge final question... the climax... of the debate---deciding who will soon run the world...
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hiway29
I'm with Guliani in that I'm primarily an American League fan. Romney's response was as offensive as the man generally is to me.
90% of the debates are total bs anyway. I'm a little more concerned with their stands on Iraq.
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mstar1
Well of course there are more important things going on in the world.
Giuliani did take a huge amount of heat in NY, for coming out for the Red Sox while campaigning in New England.
Romney I dont take seriously, he's a poser, he didnt even get the years right--he plays to any crowd he is in. Giuiliani is a Yanks fan , a real one, though.
Depends on the fan, I know some Nyers and some Sox fans who wouldn't think of rooting for that other team unless they were facing a team of child molesters and even then it would be questionable...
I thought it was odd it was brought up in an election debate, it does show you the (stupid)face of American politics. If Rudy goes further some one will probably bring up that old flip flopper issue that they always seem to drag out every election..
...
according to todays paper the Sox offered Crisp, Lester, and two top prospects for Johan Santana, and will not offer Ellsbury or Buchholz
Which is what I said on the last page--glad to hear that they are listening :)
Whats next the winter meetings or GM meetings? If i were the Twins, unless some deal was just perfect. I'd probably wait until then and wave Santana around in hopes that someone would overshoot, which they might.....but I think the Red Sox have a good shot at him...unless his financial demands get too extreme--
but who knows--its all just gossip so far....
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hiway29
I just saw some talking heads sports show that said the Sox are the 'frontrunners' for Santana. After a few minutes they referred to themselves as Sox fans. I never saw them before, and don't know where the show came from. It was some cable show on channel 408 or something.
If the Sox do get him, I guess it's 'lights out' for the AL-at least come playoff time. I then read how the Rays payroll may 'skyrocket' to 38 million this year, up from the 25 million it was last year. They should just have the Sox and Yankees duke it out for 162 games, and let the other teams play each other. With that kind of disparity, there really is something wrong somewhere. As much as I like Hunter with the Angels, he really should be a Twin. Watching good players come up with small market teams , only to bolt to the big money teams gets kind of sickening after awhile.This whole Santana thing is only the Twins protecting themselves before he jumps ship next year. Of course as a Yankee fan, I'm with the team that's mostly to blame, though the Angels, Sox(both colors) and Cubs are catching up real fast.
I guess I'm an oddball fan. I rooted for the Sox in '67, '75, and '86. Really didn't care one way or the other this year. Just wanted a competitive series.
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Tom Strange
I've always (with rare exception) rooted that way as well... If you're an AL fan, you root for the AL, NL for NL... that punk that asked the question was a member of the lost generation that thinks baseball games are just someplace to go drink and yell profanities...
The other day the Twinkies sent a RHP, .... and a closer prospect to Tampa for OF Delmon Young, .... and another OF... so maybe they'll not be going after Coco and he'll be on his way to his rightful place in our CF... or... they could just be stocking the pantry with 'players to be named later'...
(P.S. the young Jedi beat his Master last night... and yes, I'm aware that there were a couple of home field calls)
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mstar1
Id like to see the salaries come down and there be more parity in the league but it seems like that is going to have to be a long term goal for baseball if they even think along those line.
I cant remember all that well, the strike year in the 90's their was a lot of talk of fans leaving the game and not coming back. That wasnt that long ago.
MLB responded with a fullfrontal marketing and media blitz which has worked well, especially in the high media market areas like NY, who immediately took advantage of it, the Red Sox jumped on the bandwagon out of necessity and have been able to keep up.
I read the figures about a week ago and MLB revenues are actually gigormously increasing every year. I hope the smaller teams that have been left in the lurch adapt their organizational philosophies and structures to go and grab themselves a piece of the pie, because the Yankees (with a new billion dollar state of the art stadium) certainly aren't going to let up, and the Red Sox in order to stay competitive with them really cant either.
I think the pieces are out there for most organizations to increase their revenues, if not to mega team status, at least enough to stay mostly competive, but the same old same old business style of the 70's, 80's or 90's just isnt going to work anymore.
i have said before how surprised I am that more teams dont cultivate their own TV networks, the investment isnt all that much for the returns it brings
For both the Yankees and the Red Sox that is a massive revenue stream--probably equal to as much if not more than they make at the box office. -never mind doing the obvious things like increasing fan interest.
Baseball, even though it is basically the same great game, is changing alot, as it always has---the business aspect which I dont care all that much for, but is necessary, is
almost as much of a creative 'game' as the game on the field.
I'll be hoping that things even out somehow, but the execs are going to have to be gutsy and move out of some comfort zones to do it...
......
Tom was posting as I was writing
I love it....
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Tom Strange
I think the local TV deals are critical... Hicks has a pretty good TV deal, I'm thinking as good as or better than anyone's but NYY and Bos... but he (in the past) has not spent money wisely... (I've heard talk of them 'roofing' the ballpark while they've got all the cranes already there for the new Cowboys stadium, that would help us get a lot of players I think)
Besides the heat, I've heard that the stRangers have a 'losing tradition'... but I think (I hope) that we're on our way to growing from within and building something...
A good GM and an owner who will just give him the money to do his job are so critical. We liked Doug Melvin but Hicks kept trying to be (what he thought was) George.
I'm telling you... I wish they'd give the Marlin's GM whatever he wants to come here... that guy's a genius...
(pardon my rambling)
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Tom Strange
type "baseball antichrist" (quotes or not) into google and see what results you get...
(you already know don't you)
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mstar1
That seemed alittle too predictable so I tried --antichrist of baseball--instead.
I got at least 10 different antichrists.
Craigs gonna hafta teach a new class!
Of course you know who came up first and most frequent
then in order
Bud Selig second
"Barroid" Bonds
Jay Johnstone
Billy Beane
the "Yankmees" (from an A's fan)
Roger Clemens
The Red Sox
Curt Schilling
George Steinbrenner
that was just the first two pages.
The most entertainiing article to me was the one on Jay Johnstone
who proposed an independant league that would have a unique scoring innovation, Homeruns by the trailing team in the seventh inning would be worth twice the actual runs...ie a basesloaded homerun would be worth 8 runs......
:unsure: 
I dont know if his league ever got off the ground or not--I think Ill suggest to him dispensing with center fielders altogether as a way to increase excitement---It worked when I was 8 and not enough kids showed up
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hiway29
geez-we never thought of no centerfielder-it was always right field that was done away with, and anything hit that way was foul-which seems wacky in retrospect.
When one of the few lefty hitters came up, the outfielders groaned and moved over to right and center, making left field foul.
We also often didn't have enough players for first or second base, so a grounder to short was thrown to the pitcher for an out , on those sad days.
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mstar1
We actually did the exact same thing -no Rfer, throw to the pitcher etc...--I stretched my post a little _ I had just read about a fan in 1903 who wanted to do away with the CFer so I wrote it that way...my bad
I was reading an article by John Thorn this morning when I stumbled onTHIS TIMELINE that I found interesting on the development of the game and the rules...I dont know if they ever did play withoiut a CF but it does make reference to a D.L. Adams who invented the shortstop position in 1840. and alot ofother little tidbits.
an interesting caveat:
The 'rivalry' seems to stretch back at least a few hundred years
this from 1857-
I still favor our game ...
............
heres an engraving from
1843 for a lazy Saturday morning.
The foul lines are a little spread out, there are wickets for bases, the pitcher is pitching underhand but it still looks like baseball to me.....
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