If the catcher catches a foul tip on the 3rd strike it's not an out. When I was a kid we referred to a tip becoming a ball if the ball was hit 'over the head'. A caught foul ball is an out, a caught 'tip' is not.
I can't think of any other differences.
Actually it is an out. If the tip goes directly into the catcher's mitt and is held, it is just an ordinary strike and a live ball, and thus if there are two strikes on the batter, it is strike three. If there are less than two strikes, it of course is not an out, even though the catcher holds it. If it is not held, it becomes an ordinary foul ball and a dead ball.
Where the young players, their coaches, and even some of the young umpires I work with get messed up is the live ball part. This will come into play if a runner or runners run with the pitch. If runners are going and there are less than two strikes in the batter, and the pitch nicks the bat on the way in, it is better for the catcher if he drops the ball, then it is dead and no runners can advance, unless of course he can throw the runner(s) out. Of course, there is no catcher in the world, including MLB, who can think that fast (Shall we measure the time between a fastball crossing the plate and reaching the catcher's mitt?!)
But I've had to explain that many times when the catcher holds a foul tip and argues that the runners can't go because it was a foul.
I caught one square in the adams apple as a catcher when I was 14 or 15, as if that wasnt bad enough, it was a squeeze play so after getting the tipped fastball in the throat and dropping to my knees on the plate I was immediately mowed over by the runner coming in from third.
I'm awake enough now to realize what I was trying to say before. It's on the 1st and second strike that a caught foul tip is just a strike. If it 'goes over the head' and is judged a foul ball and caught, then it's an out.
The complexities that Lifted Up describe are way over my head.
I'm awake enough now to realize what I was trying to say before. It's on the 1st and second strike that a caught foul tip is just a strike. If it 'goes over the head' and is judged a foul ball and caught, then it's an out.
The complexities that Lifted Up describe are way over my head.
And it IS now official for Cliff Lee. He HAS been crowned the AL Cy Young winner.
And it IS now official for Cliff Lee. He HAS been crowned the AL Cy Young winner.
Yep, overwhelming but not unanimous vote, and that's right. Anyone who winds 20 in this era should get some recognition and votes.
The down side is that, if he keeps it up, Cliff will probably eventually go the way of CC...I think the Tribe can keep him through 2010 if they want but I.m not sure...and like with CC, they might deal him off earlier.
Curt Flood sure started something, didn't he?
IMHO, two things are key to making a good umpire...desire and temperament. I think of the latter as having no hesitation in calling someone whose guts you hate safe on a very close play.
Yep, overwhelming but not unanimous vote, and that's right. Anyone who winds 20 in this era should get some recognition and votes.
The down side is that, if he keeps it up, Cliff will probably eventually go the way of CC...I think the Tribe can keep him through 2010 if they want but I.m not sure...and like with CC, they might deal him off earlier.
Curt Flood sure started something, didn't he?
Well, Webb got more than 20 wins... and Lincicum did NOT... but the Gints didn't give Timmy boy quite as much support as Webb got...
IMHO, two things are key to making a good umpire...desire and temperament. I think of the latter as having no hesitation in calling someone whose guts you hate safe on a very close play.
Which goes hand in hand with its converse, having no hesitation calling your best friend out on a very close play...
By the way, Rocky, my umpire's temperament carries over to some extent into the world of politics...but unlike baseball, I am not ready willing and able to accept all the cyber screaming and getting into the middle of all the disgusting things I see in that realm/forum.
For example, I really bristled at the suggestion that some made...including one very plainly at work...that our incumbent U.S. Senator was not fit to serve because his brain hemmorage (sp?) left him, for now, as a less effective verbal speaker. I think those who have to work to overcome something like that can be and usually are more effective for their efforts. There is an sharp example dealing with someone on the other side of the political spectrum, which I will not mention publicly because it is one of the two things, rightfully or wrongly, that have caused me to lose some personal respect for people whom I have previously respected on these forums...I will only say neither involves you. I will also say that this brings up big reasons why i don't get into that forum much.
But of course, I would still call these people safe on a close play if they were safe.
It happened more than once, but the one case that sticks out was on a fairly high strike three I called on him. Working with the kids as I do, 12 year olds that are not quite LLWS caliber (and younger), The coaches are always encouraging us to go with a big strike zone because nobody wants a game too full of walks. But sometimes they forget about doing this when it is their kids that are at bat!
P.S. I have the integrity to admit I competely blow a call once in a great while, including balls and strikes, But this one was within the realm of what I had been calling.
So--yesterday I got lost in North Joisey, took a few wrong turns (easy to do it that neck of the woods if you're not from there) and found myself crossing the George Washington Bridge--with crazy roads and exits everywhere once you get across the bridge i wasnt sure what to do.....I took the first road I saw that headed north--and before you know it I was suprisedly zingin right past the Yankee StadiumS while negotiating traffic on the Major Deegan Expressway-
--I only caught a fleeting glimpse but the new place is monstrously, and I mean monstrously-- Ginormous.
I thought the old place was huge-- the new place looks like its twice the size--
I hate, really hate, driving anywhere in NYC, and can understand making some wrong turns.I'm flying into Hartford by 2 planes next week, just to avoid driving from NYC to Ct.
Could you see both stadiums? They haven't brought out the wrecking ball yet, have they ?
Does it 'look' like Yankee Stadium ? I always got 'chills' when I drove by-I wonder if the new joint will evoke that.
And I wonder how the new 'Ebbets Field' is coming along. No one is going to miss Shea.
No wrecking balls yet, they're both sitting there side by side--which was quite an impressive site. I dont remeber the exterior of the old prerenovation place that well, having only been there once, but the new place has much more of a classical style to it and is in a few words...(can a RS fan say this?) beautiful.. majestic ..strong...cathedral like. Much more so than the "modernized" current place...
If I wasnt zipping by at 65 in insane weaving traffic and already lost-- I would have stopped off to check it out and gotten a closer look...I may have to go down that way again in which case I'll plan a side trip to it.
If your coming over to this coast-it would be worth a trip to see it-but you might want to take the train!...
...I havent seen Citifield yet, just pictures, but of the things Ive read almost everyone seems to think its a vast improvement over Shea, which I never really liked much....
Dress warm if you're comin this way--Its gettin chilly over here--I was workin in 4 inches of snow on Tuesday
I'm safe (at least the fires haven't hit my neighborhood yet). There's supposed to be a first ever marathon in Pasadena this morning. I don't see how that's going to happen , as the smoke from the fires is everywhere.
These fires are horrible. So many people, from millionaires, to an entire mobile home park have lost their homes.As if things weren't bad enough with the economy. I don't know what many of these people are going to do.
I b!tch about blizzards, and snow and cold (and a weird tornado watch yesterday) but I after seeing those fires sweeping over the landscape on the news Im very thankful I dont have to deal with anything even close to that. It looks incredibly bad---hopefully nobody gets killed--- My thoughts and prayers to all the Californians
So--yesterday I got lost in North Joisey, took a few wrong turns (easy to do it that neck of the woods if you're not from there) and found myself crossing the George Washington Bridge--with crazy roads and exits everywhere once you get across the bridge i wasnt sure what to do.....I took the first road I saw that headed north--and before you know it I was suprisedly zingin right past the Yankee StadiumS while negotiating traffic on the Major Deegan Expressway-
--I only caught a fleeting glimpse but the new place is monstrously, and I mean monstrously-- Ginormous.
I thought the old place was huge-- the new place looks like its twice the size--
Dunno how close I came back in 1976...I was in TWI and driving back to Indy from MA a few days after a heartbeat festival at Albany. I took some wrong turns and made an unplanned crossing of that famous bridge. But I was focused straight ahead in that circus; I could have driven right by the place and missed it.
Its a crazy crazy place to drive. I got stuck hitchhiking through there sometime in the mid 70's
I started in Utah, went through Wyoming and 3 or 4 days later got let off right in that area. It was absolute insane culture shock at the time as I had been living pretty far away from most civilization for awhile and never imagined roads stacked like that...
I had no idea that I was close to Yankee Stadium or why I was getting such a hard time from passing motorists. Maybe a sign that said "BOSTON" wasnt the best thing to hold up in that neighborhood at night
Thankfully I survived and finally got rescued by someone who couldnt believe what i was doing and got me out of there--- I eventually finally made it back home--and learned to carry maps-----yes--live and learn was a very long process for me
Not only do we usually have two umps working our games, but sometimes we have "personnel problems" and we are too short to even do that for every game. So who usually gets to do a game alone in those cases? The experienced old fart. This can get fun with runners on base. attempted steals aren't usually as close as they are in MLB, but there are a few close ones. But other fun arises too. Once , I think the summer before last, I had to call a batter/runner safe or out at second trying for a double while a runner was crossing the plate with two out. On splt second timing I called the batter/runner out at second but allowed the run to score because he touched the plate a split second ahead of the play.
Good peripheral vision I guess. Or good guessing. No arguments on that play.
In two years-Rookie of The Year, a World Series Ring, a Gold Glove and now a Most Valuable Player
not too shabby for a Mighty Mite.
I love those who fight against the odds --at every level from Little League on up they'd say he would never make it---now someones going to have to invent a whole new level for him--because somehow he just keeps proving all the skeptics wrong
In two years-Rookie of The Year, a World Series Ring, a Gold Glove and now a Most Valuable Player
not too shabby for a Mighty Mite.
I love those who fight against the odds --at every level from Little League on up they'd say he would never make it---now someones going to have to invent a whole new level for him--because somehow he just keeps proving all the skeptics wrong
Hey Mstar :)
What a great kid he is. . . I have to say I do like Justin Morneau too, being a Twins watcher and all. . . hubby was gracious about Dustin, so. . . I am pretending to be as well. I am so happy for Pedroia--and us! I don't know how many players have gotten Rookie one year and MVP the next, but it can't be many. 2 or 3 I bet.
" Following a 2007 season in which Pedroia helped fuel the Red Sox to a World Series championship and won the AL Rookie of the Year Award, the right-handed hitting machine staged quite an encore.
"It's unbelievable," said Pedroia. "When I first got called up to the Major Leagues in 2006, I really didn't know what to expect. I really didn't set any expectations or goals on myself. My biggest thing was, if I'm in the lineup that day, I'm going to play as hard as I can and try to help our team. That's been my mentality ever since I got called up to the big leagues. That's how I'm going to be successful. I have to keep that mind-set every season. This year, I was very successful. Hopefully, I can continue that."
Recommended Posts
Top Posters In This Topic
858
673
1658
1014
Popular Days
Oct 24
38
Aug 12
34
Aug 18
31
Oct 22
29
Top Posters In This Topic
hiway29 858 posts
Rocky 673 posts
mstar1 1,658 posts
Tom Strange 1,014 posts
Popular Days
Oct 24 2007
38 posts
Aug 12 2008
34 posts
Aug 18 2008
31 posts
Oct 22 2006
29 posts
Popular Posts
kimberly
I missed the LLWS. The boy had baseball practice 4-7. Playing in a USSSA tournament this coming weekend. The new season has just started. Can ya'll believe we are in September of the ML baseball s
mstar1
Dont scare me like that Bolsh--the way you posted I wasnt sure if it was a done deal--I had to go check....Im on the fence whether to go for Halliday or not---I'd love to have him but I'd hate to give
hiway29
I love those fan trades where players you don't care about, plus a 'prospect', are offered up for a major player. Yeah, the Jays will jump at that deal.
Posted Images
Lifted Up
Actually it is an out. If the tip goes directly into the catcher's mitt and is held, it is just an ordinary strike and a live ball, and thus if there are two strikes on the batter, it is strike three. If there are less than two strikes, it of course is not an out, even though the catcher holds it. If it is not held, it becomes an ordinary foul ball and a dead ball.
Where the young players, their coaches, and even some of the young umpires I work with get messed up is the live ball part. This will come into play if a runner or runners run with the pitch. If runners are going and there are less than two strikes in the batter, and the pitch nicks the bat on the way in, it is better for the catcher if he drops the ball, then it is dead and no runners can advance, unless of course he can throw the runner(s) out. Of course, there is no catcher in the world, including MLB, who can think that fast (Shall we measure the time between a fastball crossing the plate and reaching the catcher's mitt?!)
But I've had to explain that many times when the catcher holds a foul tip and argues that the runners can't go because it was a foul.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
hiway29
oh right -it is an out. I don't know what I was thinking that early in the morning.
As far as the other complexities-let's just say I'd make a lousy umpire.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
mstar1
Ugg foul tips
I caught one square in the adams apple as a catcher when I was 14 or 15, as if that wasnt bad enough, it was a squeeze play so after getting the tipped fastball in the throat and dropping to my knees on the plate I was immediately mowed over by the runner coming in from third.
I couldnt talk right for over a week.
Edited by mstar1Link to comment
Share on other sites
hiway29
I'm awake enough now to realize what I was trying to say before. It's on the 1st and second strike that a caught foul tip is just a strike. If it 'goes over the head' and is judged a foul ball and caught, then it's an out.
The complexities that Lifted Up describe are way over my head.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Rocky
And it IS now official for Cliff Lee. He HAS been crowned the AL Cy Young winner.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Lifted Up
Yep, overwhelming but not unanimous vote, and that's right. Anyone who winds 20 in this era should get some recognition and votes.
The down side is that, if he keeps it up, Cliff will probably eventually go the way of CC...I think the Tribe can keep him through 2010 if they want but I.m not sure...and like with CC, they might deal him off earlier.
Curt Flood sure started something, didn't he?
IMHO, two things are key to making a good umpire...desire and temperament. I think of the latter as having no hesitation in calling someone whose guts you hate safe on a very close play.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Rocky
Well, Webb got more than 20 wins... and Lincicum did NOT... but the Gints didn't give Timmy boy quite as much support as Webb got...
Which goes hand in hand with its converse, having no hesitation calling your best friend out on a very close play...
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Lifted Up
Or my work supervisor's son, which I've done!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Lifted Up
By the way, Rocky, my umpire's temperament carries over to some extent into the world of politics...but unlike baseball, I am not ready willing and able to accept all the cyber screaming and getting into the middle of all the disgusting things I see in that realm/forum.
For example, I really bristled at the suggestion that some made...including one very plainly at work...that our incumbent U.S. Senator was not fit to serve because his brain hemmorage (sp?) left him, for now, as a less effective verbal speaker. I think those who have to work to overcome something like that can be and usually are more effective for their efforts. There is an sharp example dealing with someone on the other side of the political spectrum, which I will not mention publicly because it is one of the two things, rightfully or wrongly, that have caused me to lose some personal respect for people whom I have previously respected on these forums...I will only say neither involves you. I will also say that this brings up big reasons why i don't get into that forum much.
But of course, I would still call these people safe on a close play if they were safe.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Rocky
That takes guts! :)
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Lifted Up
It happened more than once, but the one case that sticks out was on a fairly high strike three I called on him. Working with the kids as I do, 12 year olds that are not quite LLWS caliber (and younger), The coaches are always encouraging us to go with a big strike zone because nobody wants a game too full of walks. But sometimes they forget about doing this when it is their kids that are at bat!
P.S. I have the integrity to admit I competely blow a call once in a great while, including balls and strikes, But this one was within the realm of what I had been calling.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
mstar1
So--yesterday I got lost in North Joisey, took a few wrong turns (easy to do it that neck of the woods if you're not from there) and found myself crossing the George Washington Bridge--with crazy roads and exits everywhere once you get across the bridge i wasnt sure what to do.....I took the first road I saw that headed north--and before you know it I was suprisedly zingin right past the Yankee StadiumS while negotiating traffic on the Major Deegan Expressway-
--I only caught a fleeting glimpse but the new place is monstrously, and I mean monstrously-- Ginormous.
I thought the old place was huge-- the new place looks like its twice the size--
Link to comment
Share on other sites
hiway29
I hate, really hate, driving anywhere in NYC, and can understand making some wrong turns.I'm flying into Hartford by 2 planes next week, just to avoid driving from NYC to Ct.
Could you see both stadiums? They haven't brought out the wrecking ball yet, have they ?
Does it 'look' like Yankee Stadium ? I always got 'chills' when I drove by-I wonder if the new joint will evoke that.
And I wonder how the new 'Ebbets Field' is coming along. No one is going to miss Shea.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
mstar1
No wrecking balls yet, they're both sitting there side by side--which was quite an impressive site. I dont remeber the exterior of the old prerenovation place that well, having only been there once, but the new place has much more of a classical style to it and is in a few words...(can a RS fan say this?) beautiful.. majestic ..strong...cathedral like. Much more so than the "modernized" current place...
If I wasnt zipping by at 65 in insane weaving traffic and already lost-- I would have stopped off to check it out and gotten a closer look...I may have to go down that way again in which case I'll plan a side trip to it.
If your coming over to this coast-it would be worth a trip to see it-but you might want to take the train!...
...I havent seen Citifield yet, just pictures, but of the things Ive read almost everyone seems to think its a vast improvement over Shea, which I never really liked much....
Dress warm if you're comin this way--Its gettin chilly over here--I was workin in 4 inches of snow on Tuesday
Edited by mstar1Link to comment
Share on other sites
mstar1
Gees I just had the news on
are you safe over there in LA Hiway?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Rocky
I think the fires are NW of LA...
Link to comment
Share on other sites
hiway29
I'm safe (at least the fires haven't hit my neighborhood yet). There's supposed to be a first ever marathon in Pasadena this morning. I don't see how that's going to happen , as the smoke from the fires is everywhere.
These fires are horrible. So many people, from millionaires, to an entire mobile home park have lost their homes.As if things weren't bad enough with the economy. I don't know what many of these people are going to do.
Thanks for the concern.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
mstar1
Stay safe out there-
I b!tch about blizzards, and snow and cold (and a weird tornado watch yesterday) but I after seeing those fires sweeping over the landscape on the news Im very thankful I dont have to deal with anything even close to that. It looks incredibly bad---hopefully nobody gets killed--- My thoughts and prayers to all the Californians
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Lifted Up
Dunno how close I came back in 1976...I was in TWI and driving back to Indy from MA a few days after a heartbeat festival at Albany. I took some wrong turns and made an unplanned crossing of that famous bridge. But I was focused straight ahead in that circus; I could have driven right by the place and missed it.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
mstar1
Its a crazy crazy place to drive. I got stuck hitchhiking through there sometime in the mid 70's
I started in Utah, went through Wyoming and 3 or 4 days later got let off right in that area. It was absolute insane culture shock at the time as I had been living pretty far away from most civilization for awhile and never imagined roads stacked like that...
I had no idea that I was close to Yankee Stadium or why I was getting such a hard time from passing motorists. Maybe a sign that said "BOSTON" wasnt the best thing to hold up in that neighborhood at night
Thankfully I survived and finally got rescued by someone who couldnt believe what i was doing and got me out of there--- I eventually finally made it back home--and learned to carry maps-----yes--live and learn was a very long process for me
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Lifted Up
Not only do we usually have two umps working our games, but sometimes we have "personnel problems" and we are too short to even do that for every game. So who usually gets to do a game alone in those cases? The experienced old fart. This can get fun with runners on base. attempted steals aren't usually as close as they are in MLB, but there are a few close ones. But other fun arises too. Once , I think the summer before last, I had to call a batter/runner safe or out at second trying for a double while a runner was crossing the plate with two out. On splt second timing I called the batter/runner out at second but allowed the run to score because he touched the plate a split second ahead of the play.
Good peripheral vision I guess. Or good guessing. No arguments on that play.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
geisha779
Congrats to Dustin!! Good things come in small packages!!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
mstar1
I knew you'd be in here Geisha! :)
In two years-Rookie of The Year, a World Series Ring, a Gold Glove and now a Most Valuable Player
not too shabby for a Mighty Mite.
I love those who fight against the odds --at every level from Little League on up they'd say he would never make it---now someones going to have to invent a whole new level for him--because somehow he just keeps proving all the skeptics wrong
Link to comment
Share on other sites
geisha779
Hey Mstar :)
What a great kid he is. . . I have to say I do like Justin Morneau too, being a Twins watcher and all. . . hubby was gracious about Dustin, so. . . I am pretending to be as well. I am so happy for Pedroia--and us! I don't know how many players have gotten Rookie one year and MVP the next, but it can't be many. 2 or 3 I bet.
" Following a 2007 season in which Pedroia helped fuel the Red Sox to a World Series championship and won the AL Rookie of the Year Award, the right-handed hitting machine staged quite an encore.
"It's unbelievable," said Pedroia. "When I first got called up to the Major Leagues in 2006, I really didn't know what to expect. I really didn't set any expectations or goals on myself. My biggest thing was, if I'm in the lineup that day, I'm going to play as hard as I can and try to help our team. That's been my mentality ever since I got called up to the big leagues. That's how I'm going to be successful. I have to keep that mind-set every season. This year, I was very successful. Hopefully, I can continue that."
http://mlb.mlb.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=456030
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.