Too tired right now to answer all this--As far as Dice-K, I checked out early in that game so I didnt see what you're talking about... I willsay Ihave hardly seen him throw near anyone in two years --except the occasional one which gets away, (if you check his BB stats they are very high and he has at least one extremely wild inning every outing). He even used to do that japanese bow thingy if someone got hit because an HBP was "dishonorable" in his culture.
He doesnt do that anymore but I havent seen him throwing at people either. Dunno maybe he's taking lessons in American baseball...or he's been watching Joba Chamberlain.
Will you guys sign Roy Halladay in the off season or trade for him or something? I hate having him in this division...he's brutal....
Its been odd going from playing the best hitting team to a great pitching and fielding team in the Bluejays---Never a dull moment ---although if someone could combine the Rangers and the Jays somehow -it would be a formidable force.
...................
I looked up and read all those waiver rules last winter Geisha, they're interesting and very nuanced---I'll see if I can find the link in the AM
my first thought is that it's not the same as Robinson... his number is retired with the NYY isn't it? ...that's enough for me.
I can't imagine the Yankees would allow anyone to wear number 3 anymore... in other words, I figure they must have retired the Babe's number.
For me, to honor Ruth this way might harken us all back to a time when steroids weren't an issue... and for all the lore and legend that surrounds him even now, his role in one of the earlier times when the public needed to be brought back after a big scandal hasn't been talked about.
Changing the subject, an aflac trivia question during the Saturday Dbacks game -- name the first FIVE players elected to the HoF, the first year.
Can you (without looking them up)?
I actually surprised myself by rattling them off without realizing I knew... 3 position players, 2 pitchers... they are all familiar names for lifelong baseball fans.
I was able to get four out of five... guess I'm just not that good of a fan... but I was just guessing because I wasn't sure when the hall opened...
While I was checking I did find out that today 8/18, is Roberto Clemente's birthday... so... happening day Roberto! I had your baseball glove during all of my little league and pony league years...
oh.. and now the stRangers ARE going to move Blalock to first when he comes off the DL and to keep Chris Davis' bat in the lineup he'll move across the field to third...
Changing the subject, an aflac trivia question during the Saturday Dbacks game -- name the first FIVE players elected to the HoF, the first year.
Can you (without looking them up)?
I actually surprised myself by rattling them off without realizing I knew... 3 position players, 2 pitchers... they are all familiar names for lifelong baseball fans.
I'm going to go with Cy Young, Walter Johnson, Ty Cobb, Honus Wagner and Rogers Hornsby....
I was able to get four out of five... guess I'm just not that good of a fan... but I was just guessing because I wasn't sure when the hall opened...
While I was checking I did find out that today 8/18, is Roberto Clemente's birthday... so... happening day Roberto! I had your baseball glove during all of my little league and pony league years...
oh.. and now the stRangers ARE going to move Blalock to first when he comes off the DL and to keep Chris Davis' bat in the lineup he'll move across the field to third...
I bet you knew the name of the fifth one very well anyway...
For others... they are Babe Ruth, Ty Cobb, Honus Wagner, Walter Johnson and Christy Mathewson.
I'm going to go with Cy Young, Walter Johnson, Ty Cobb, Honus Wagner and Rogers Hornsby....
Cy Young got in the second year, according to Sutton and Matt Williams. I'm not sure when Hornsby got in.
Cool on the vote results although I couldnt tell you who Lou Criger was..
I doubt that Ruths number will be retired by all of baseball. The Yankees already have it retired and have a plaque for him. There werent numbers when he played for the Red Sox so he (along with a few others) obviously doesnt have his RS number retired----- and although I definitely have great respect for what Robinson did, its still a little odd for me to look up on the rf porch at Fenway and see 1-4-8-9-27* in Red Sox red and then 42 in Dodger Blue---
Ruth did help to save and revitalize the game and I love him as a player but 3 in yankee pinstripes would NOT work in Fenway...
Speaking of old timers --yesterday was Smokey Joe Wood Day at Fenway who made his first start for the Red Sox 100 years ago yesterday,August 17, 1908-- two of his surviving children were there--who I really enjoyed seeing... --Wood won 34 games in 1912..and pitched in some of the still legendary early "games of the century'.
There's no reason to retire Babe's #3 throughout baseball.
Almost all of the Yankee single digit numbers have been retired by the Yankees. As a kid, a single digit # was almost always associated with a Yankee ( at least where I lived), and I was proud to wear #8 , Yogi's #, on my little league uniform.
3-Babe Ruth, 4-Lou Gehrig, 5- Joe Dimaggio, 6 - ( old age has set in and I can't remember), 7- Mickey Mantle, 8- Yogi Berra, Bill Dickey-both cathcers , and both wore the number,
I'm not sure if 1 is retired-Billy Martin , ( and Joe Torre) wore it.
I'm certain that Derek Jeter's 2 will one day be retired.
I'm not sure if 9 , Roger Maris, is retired.I recall Craig Nettles wearing it in the 70's.
There are several other retired Yankee numbers. The Yankees love to retire numbers. Of course they've had a few pretty good players.
Reggie Jacksons even in there although he played for them for about 3 years.
I dont know what the Yankee criteria is, I know that the Red Sox is pretty stringent--At least 10 years with the team, a member of the Hall of Fame, and must end their career with the Red Sox are a few of them--so because he's gone Manny is never going up there, even though im he belongs...There have been others that belong but for one reason or another they're not..Jimmy Foxx, Cy Young, Tris Speaker etc(of course for some of these guys its hard to retire numbers if they didnt have numbers
I don't think the Yankees have a set criteria. Roger Maris certainly deserves it, though it was long in coming. He didn't finish his career there, and his credentials rest largely on 2 mvp years, and of course mostly on 1961. That's good enough for me.
Reggie was there for just a few years, but what a few years. I can see an argument in this case, but Reggie did prove to be the 'straw that stirred the drink'.
IMO , the Sox should bend the 'rules' with Manny.
Hey, the Dodgers might retire Manny's number if he only stays 2 months !
Almost all of the Yankee single digit numbers have been retired by the Yankees. As a kid, a single digit # was almost always associated with a Yankee ( at least where I lived), and I was proud to wear #8 , Yogi's #, on my little league uniform.
I used to wear #8 all the time!! It was even my girls ice hockey #(Left wing)
It wasn't for Yogi though--YAZ!!
Mstar--I found a great article the other day on the waiver rules. It IS very nuanced, but helped me understand why the obvious need doesn't always get the player.
I'm pretty sure that Billy's number is retired, well, if not retired it's honored with a plaque... I don't know why, but I was kind of thinking that the NYY didn't formally retire numbers... they just don't issue them! ...and they made the decision to give Jeter the single digit because they felt he was gonna be a hall of famer one day... I always tried to get number 7 and was able to most of the time since I was usually bigger than most of the other kids and one of the better players (at least in my memory I was!)
Last night Rays manager Joe Madden chose to intentionaly walk Josh Hamilton in the bottom of the ninth.
After the game Madden said: "Let's face it, this is Hamilton's year and I didn't want him to ruin ours."
Byrd was batting behind Hamilton and Madden said he wouldn't have done it if Bradley had been next up... still a gutsy call since Byrd already has a walkoff GS this month and has been hotter in the last month than Manny... but it worked out for them...
As good as Jorge Posada has been, I doubt he'll be regarded as highly as that group.
I agree with you, Tom, about Posada. I'm not sure why, but I just think the perception is that he doesn't quite place in that 'class by themselves' category.
I'm sure his numbers are as good or better than Elston Howard's, and Elston certainly belongs there.
I'm not sure about retiring Babe Ruth's number...I could see Jackie Robinson's...'Tho Robinson as a ballplayer certainly had HOF calibre stats, especially considering he didn't make his big league debut until he was 28, his big mark on the game of baseball was breaking the racial color barrier...I've often heard baseball bashed for it's old segregated ways---having Negro leagues and such...But the whole country was segregated in those days---including the U. S. Army...Because Robinson paved the way for baseball in the same vein that Rosa Parks opened the door for equal civil rights in America, he should forever be recognized...Ruth certainly revived tremendous interest in professional baseball during tough times, along with a new lively ball, but I don't see his contributions to the game of baseball as warranting his number 3 retired...
You guys have been talking about Texas (poor) pitching and (fabulous) hitting...I don't get to see them that often...I will say that one of the more enjoyable nights of watching baseball for me, was a couple of weeks ago when the Cubs-Astros game on ESPN was rain-delayed, so to fill time, ESPN kept switching to the various games going on around the league, using the local tv affiliates and the local announcers..I saw an inning or two of about five different games---including Texas and NY---and I was thinking that ESPN should do this once a week---have sort of a potpourri night...Anyway, don't know how to solve Texas' pitching woes, but I did note a couple of things in the Cubs-Marlins game yesterday that might be related..
Cubs were being shutout 'til the seventh inning when they got a couple of baserunners on and knocked out the Florida starter who was pitching a gutsy game...Then the wheels fell off for the Marlins and the Cubs scored eight runs in the inning (Florida did the same thing to the Cubs a few Octobers ago, so I don't pity them too much)...Here's what I saw that killed the Marlins....Fredi Gonzalez brings in lefty Renyel Pinto, averaging almost a run an inning, after lefty Jim Edmonds was announced as a pinch-hitter...So Piniella counters with righty Mark DeRosa, who is walked...Now you've got the top of the Cubs order coming up, four straight right-handed hitters, and what does the Florida manager do?...Sits in the dugout like he's waiting for a bus...I mean, it's the seventh inning---2-0 game and you're fighting for your playoff lives...That's usually when the manager keeps doing the righty-lefty matchups...I thought the Florida manager threw his reliever under the bus...
The other thing of note with the Florida team was their poor defense...Cubs hit three doubles in the inning with the bases loaded...Luis Gozalez---good man that he is---looked horrible in left field...Out of those three doubles, a decent left fielder would have caught one, held the other one to a single, and a decent web gem by the third basemen would have turned the other one into a double-play groundout...While no errors were charged, I thought that one inning of baseball was a good indicator of some of those intangibles that can make a pitcher look very bad...
good points simon... but sadly it's not Washington's management that is hurting the stRanger pitching... half of them aren't very good, meaning they've been in the bigs long enough to have figured it out but lack the concentration/skill to do it consistently... and half of them are very young, with great 'talent potential' that haven't figured out how to use it yet...
the biggest thing is that at least half of our staff should still be in AA or AAA learning their way and enjoying moderate success doing so (which is what they all were doing prior to their call ups) but injuries (mostly) and failures (some) have forced them into a trial by fire situation... which is where El Presidente Ryan comes in... Matt Harrison had eight strong innings against the Ray on Saturday and showed improvement again... then yesterday we had to use Nippert as a starter (he has been pretty effective in long relief) because, you guessed it, Padilla had to be moved back again (hmmm, facing the Ray???)
but I get whatcher sayin bout crazy pitching usage...
Recommended Posts
Top Posters In This Topic
858
673
1658
1014
Popular Days
Oct 24
38
Aug 12
34
Aug 18
31
Oct 22
29
Top Posters In This Topic
hiway29 858 posts
Rocky 673 posts
mstar1 1,658 posts
Tom Strange 1,014 posts
Popular Days
Oct 24 2007
38 posts
Aug 12 2008
34 posts
Aug 18 2008
31 posts
Oct 22 2006
29 posts
Popular Posts
kimberly
I missed the LLWS. The boy had baseball practice 4-7. Playing in a USSSA tournament this coming weekend. The new season has just started. Can ya'll believe we are in September of the ML baseball s
mstar1
Dont scare me like that Bolsh--the way you posted I wasnt sure if it was a done deal--I had to go check....Im on the fence whether to go for Halliday or not---I'd love to have him but I'd hate to give
hiway29
I love those fan trades where players you don't care about, plus a 'prospect', are offered up for a major player. Yeah, the Jays will jump at that deal.
Posted Images
mstar1
Too tired right now to answer all this--As far as Dice-K, I checked out early in that game so I didnt see what you're talking about... I willsay Ihave hardly seen him throw near anyone in two years --except the occasional one which gets away, (if you check his BB stats they are very high and he has at least one extremely wild inning every outing). He even used to do that japanese bow thingy if someone got hit because an HBP was "dishonorable" in his culture.
He doesnt do that anymore but I havent seen him throwing at people either. Dunno maybe he's taking lessons in American baseball...or he's been watching Joba Chamberlain.
Will you guys sign Roy Halladay in the off season or trade for him or something? I hate having him in this division...he's brutal....
Its been odd going from playing the best hitting team to a great pitching and fielding team in the Bluejays---Never a dull moment ---although if someone could combine the Rangers and the Jays somehow -it would be a formidable force.
...................
I looked up and read all those waiver rules last winter Geisha, they're interesting and very nuanced---I'll see if I can find the link in the AM
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Rocky
Sporting News article on retiring Babe Ruth's number 3
Please check out this interesting article...
Thanks
Link to comment
Share on other sites
mstar1
All got at he link was:
Can you give us a review/synopsis?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Rocky
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Tom Strange
my first thought is that it's not the same as Robinson... his number is retired with the NYY isn't it? ...that's enough for me.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Rocky
I can't imagine the Yankees would allow anyone to wear number 3 anymore... in other words, I figure they must have retired the Babe's number.
For me, to honor Ruth this way might harken us all back to a time when steroids weren't an issue... and for all the lore and legend that surrounds him even now, his role in one of the earlier times when the public needed to be brought back after a big scandal hasn't been talked about.
Changing the subject, an aflac trivia question during the Saturday Dbacks game -- name the first FIVE players elected to the HoF, the first year.
Can you (without looking them up)?
I actually surprised myself by rattling them off without realizing I knew... 3 position players, 2 pitchers... they are all familiar names for lifelong baseball fans.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Tom Strange
I was able to get four out of five... guess I'm just not that good of a fan... but I was just guessing because I wasn't sure when the hall opened...
While I was checking I did find out that today 8/18, is Roberto Clemente's birthday... so... happening day Roberto! I had your baseball glove during all of my little league and pony league years...
oh.. and now the stRangers ARE going to move Blalock to first when he comes off the DL and to keep Chris Davis' bat in the lineup he'll move across the field to third...
Link to comment
Share on other sites
simonzelotes
I'm going to go with Cy Young, Walter Johnson, Ty Cobb, Honus Wagner and Rogers Hornsby....
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Rocky
I bet you knew the name of the fifth one very well anyway...
For others... they are Babe Ruth, Ty Cobb, Honus Wagner, Walter Johnson and Christy Mathewson.
Cy Young got in the second year, according to Sutton and Matt Williams. I'm not sure when Hornsby got in.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
simonzelotes
You mean Cy " name the award after me" Young wasn't one of the original 5?
We must be posting at the same time...I don't think anyone's gonna catch Brandon Webb for the NL Cy Young award...
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Rocky
As long as Webb stays on track, I can't imagine anyone catching him. 18-4 is pretty doggone good. I think in his best year he got 18.
He should be able to make it to 23... maybe more.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Rocky
Link to comment
Share on other sites
mstar1
Cool on the vote results although I couldnt tell you who Lou Criger was..
I doubt that Ruths number will be retired by all of baseball. The Yankees already have it retired and have a plaque for him. There werent numbers when he played for the Red Sox so he (along with a few others) obviously doesnt have his RS number retired----- and although I definitely have great respect for what Robinson did, its still a little odd for me to look up on the rf porch at Fenway and see 1-4-8-9-27* in Red Sox red and then 42 in Dodger Blue-
--
Ruth did help to save and revitalize the game and I love him as a player but 3 in yankee pinstripes would NOT work in Fenway...
Speaking of old timers --yesterday was Smokey Joe Wood Day at Fenway who made his first start for the Red Sox 100 years ago yesterday,August 17, 1908-- two of his surviving children were there--who I really enjoyed seeing... --Wood won 34 games in 1912..and pitched in some of the still legendary early "games of the century'.
* 1 Bobby Doerr
4 Joe Cronin
8 Carl Yastrzemski
9 Ted Williams
27 Carlton Fisk
Edited by mstar1Link to comment
Share on other sites
hiway29
There's no reason to retire Babe's #3 throughout baseball.
Almost all of the Yankee single digit numbers have been retired by the Yankees. As a kid, a single digit # was almost always associated with a Yankee ( at least where I lived), and I was proud to wear #8 , Yogi's #, on my little league uniform.
3-Babe Ruth, 4-Lou Gehrig, 5- Joe Dimaggio, 6 - ( old age has set in and I can't remember), 7- Mickey Mantle, 8- Yogi Berra, Bill Dickey-both cathcers , and both wore the number,
I'm not sure if 1 is retired-Billy Martin , ( and Joe Torre) wore it.
I'm certain that Derek Jeter's 2 will one day be retired.
I'm not sure if 9 , Roger Maris, is retired.I recall Craig Nettles wearing it in the 70's.
There are several other retired Yankee numbers. The Yankees love to retire numbers. Of course they've had a few pretty good players.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
mstar1
HERES the Yankee retired number list
no 6, 8 twice. Maris IS in at #9
Reggie Jacksons even in there although he played for them for about 3 years.
I dont know what the Yankee criteria is, I know that the Red Sox is pretty stringent--At least 10 years with the team, a member of the Hall of Fame, and must end their career with the Red Sox are a few of them--so because he's gone Manny is never going up there, even though im he belongs...There have been others that belong but for one reason or another they're not..Jimmy Foxx, Cy Young, Tris Speaker etc(of course for some of these guys its hard to retire numbers if they didnt have numbers
Edited by mstar1Link to comment
Share on other sites
hiway29
I don't think the Yankees have a set criteria. Roger Maris certainly deserves it, though it was long in coming. He didn't finish his career there, and his credentials rest largely on 2 mvp years, and of course mostly on 1961. That's good enough for me.
Reggie was there for just a few years, but what a few years. I can see an argument in this case, but Reggie did prove to be the 'straw that stirred the drink'.
IMO , the Sox should bend the 'rules' with Manny.
Hey, the Dodgers might retire Manny's number if he only stays 2 months !
Link to comment
Share on other sites
geisha779
I used to wear #8 all the time!! It was even my girls ice hockey #(Left wing)
It wasn't for Yogi though--YAZ!!
Mstar--I found a great article the other day on the waiver rules. It IS very nuanced, but helped me understand why the obvious need doesn't always get the player.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Tom Strange
I knew the last three of those RS numbers...
I'm pretty sure that Billy's number is retired, well, if not retired it's honored with a plaque... I don't know why, but I was kind of thinking that the NYY didn't formally retire numbers... they just don't issue them! ...and they made the decision to give Jeter the single digit because they felt he was gonna be a hall of famer one day... I always tried to get number 7 and was able to most of the time since I was usually bigger than most of the other kids and one of the better players (at least in my memory I was!)
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Tom Strange
Oops, okay, now I saw mstar's link... I didn't know that Mattingly and Guidry had been retired...
Link to comment
Share on other sites
hiway29
Those retired Yankee numbers make a pretty good line up. Too many catchers though.
As good as Jorge Posada has been, I doubt he'll be regarded as highly as that group.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Tom Strange
Last night Rays manager Joe Madden chose to intentionaly walk Josh Hamilton in the bottom of the ninth.
After the game Madden said: "Let's face it, this is Hamilton's year and I didn't want him to ruin ours."
Byrd was batting behind Hamilton and Madden said he wouldn't have done it if Bradley had been next up... still a gutsy call since Byrd already has a walkoff GS this month and has been hotter in the last month than Manny... but it worked out for them...
He should be (IMO)...
Link to comment
Share on other sites
hiway29
I agree with you, Tom, about Posada. I'm not sure why, but I just think the perception is that he doesn't quite place in that 'class by themselves' category.
I'm sure his numbers are as good or better than Elston Howard's, and Elston certainly belongs there.
Maybe I'm wrong. I hope I am.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
simonzelotes
I'm not sure about retiring Babe Ruth's number...I could see Jackie Robinson's...'Tho Robinson as a ballplayer certainly had HOF calibre stats, especially considering he didn't make his big league debut until he was 28, his big mark on the game of baseball was breaking the racial color barrier...I've often heard baseball bashed for it's old segregated ways---having Negro leagues and such...But the whole country was segregated in those days---including the U. S. Army...Because Robinson paved the way for baseball in the same vein that Rosa Parks opened the door for equal civil rights in America, he should forever be recognized...Ruth certainly revived tremendous interest in professional baseball during tough times, along with a new lively ball, but I don't see his contributions to the game of baseball as warranting his number 3 retired...
You guys have been talking about Texas (poor) pitching and (fabulous) hitting...I don't get to see them that often...I will say that one of the more enjoyable nights of watching baseball for me, was a couple of weeks ago when the Cubs-Astros game on ESPN was rain-delayed, so to fill time, ESPN kept switching to the various games going on around the league, using the local tv affiliates and the local announcers..I saw an inning or two of about five different games---including Texas and NY---and I was thinking that ESPN should do this once a week---have sort of a potpourri night...Anyway, don't know how to solve Texas' pitching woes, but I did note a couple of things in the Cubs-Marlins game yesterday that might be related..
Cubs were being shutout 'til the seventh inning when they got a couple of baserunners on and knocked out the Florida starter who was pitching a gutsy game...Then the wheels fell off for the Marlins and the Cubs scored eight runs in the inning (Florida did the same thing to the Cubs a few Octobers ago, so I don't pity them too much)...Here's what I saw that killed the Marlins....Fredi Gonzalez brings in lefty Renyel Pinto, averaging almost a run an inning, after lefty Jim Edmonds was announced as a pinch-hitter...So Piniella counters with righty Mark DeRosa, who is walked...Now you've got the top of the Cubs order coming up, four straight right-handed hitters, and what does the Florida manager do?...Sits in the dugout like he's waiting for a bus...I mean, it's the seventh inning---2-0 game and you're fighting for your playoff lives...That's usually when the manager keeps doing the righty-lefty matchups...I thought the Florida manager threw his reliever under the bus...
The other thing of note with the Florida team was their poor defense...Cubs hit three doubles in the inning with the bases loaded...Luis Gozalez---good man that he is---looked horrible in left field...Out of those three doubles, a decent left fielder would have caught one, held the other one to a single, and a decent web gem by the third basemen would have turned the other one into a double-play groundout...While no errors were charged, I thought that one inning of baseball was a good indicator of some of those intangibles that can make a pitcher look very bad...
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Tom Strange
good points simon... but sadly it's not Washington's management that is hurting the stRanger pitching... half of them aren't very good, meaning they've been in the bigs long enough to have figured it out but lack the concentration/skill to do it consistently... and half of them are very young, with great 'talent potential' that haven't figured out how to use it yet...
the biggest thing is that at least half of our staff should still be in AA or AAA learning their way and enjoying moderate success doing so (which is what they all were doing prior to their call ups) but injuries (mostly) and failures (some) have forced them into a trial by fire situation... which is where El Presidente Ryan comes in... Matt Harrison had eight strong innings against the Ray on Saturday and showed improvement again... then yesterday we had to use Nippert as a starter (he has been pretty effective in long relief) because, you guessed it, Padilla had to be moved back again (hmmm, facing the Ray???)
but I get whatcher sayin bout crazy pitching usage...
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.