Hahahahahahaha Simon. Doesn't matter. We still beat 'em!! One more to go!!!!
I love Paul Byrd. Nice humble guy who just puts his heart into it and pitches like crazy. I thought he should have been the MVP for the game he won against the Yankees.
I would *love* love love love LOVE (that's for you, Rocky) to see the Indians wrap it up in game 5.
So yeah, get to watch baseball hi def tonight ... I may never leve home ;)
Being at the game would be better for atmosphere, playing, etc. but you can see it better this way, and I decided paying so much for season tickets for the Saints and dealing with traffic and parking and crowds ... and $5.00 beer with lines ... HD IS better :)
Wakefield tonight is a coin flip... it's either gonna be a genius move or insanity...
(rhino, I predict you'll soon be addicted to the Discovery Channel in HD)
Which MIGHT just broaden his perspective on Global Warming!
Btw, they changed the name of Discovery HD Theater, dropping "Discovery" because NOW all the other Discovery related channels are available in HD also... I find the Science Channel especially interesting... not to mention Meerkat Manor on Animal Planet...
But also there's lot's of HD sports!
so far RUSH is pretty cool ...
it is full screen RUSH Limbaugh ... I bet Rocky loves it LOL
but no .. it is like the Rush of watching cool shots of sports stuff ... really incredible ...
I improved my reception 50 points by bending the install a little :) bozo ...
well, sheet, it is on FOX and not HD, as far as I can tell ...
Well, SHOOT... now the WS NOT in HD... well, good grief.
btw, I don't even know what channel LUSH is on... if it's the FIXED NOISE CHANNEL, I (by choice, of course) don't get that one.
If you got DirectTV, you got their new box and it would have two channels there for your local FOX (if it broadcasts in HD), wherever they have two channels next to each other, with the same number, the HD channel is the first one...
If your locals do broadcast HD and they're not on your DTV box you can get an HD antenna but then you'd have to run lines from it to all of the sets...
I think he said he has DISH Network... which I also have.
The channels for HD and nonHD are set up as you described ALSO on DISH. And when I moved back in 2005, I got one of those over the air antennas to clip onto my dish... however, I no longer need it because all of my local channels are now carried in HD on DISH.
...it's looking like the latter...
Just like for Livo last night... he ONLY had ONE bad inning! :blink:
Hahahahahahaha Simon. Doesn't matter. We still beat 'em!! One more to go!!!!
I love Paul Byrd. Nice humble guy who just puts his heart into it and pitches like crazy. I thought he should have been the MVP for the game he won against the Yankees.
I would *love* love love love LOVE (that's for you, Rocky) to see the Indians wrap it up in game 5.
I'd be with you on that... it's been a LONGGGGGGGGGGGGGG time since they've been to the BIG October show!
I think a Rockies/Indians match up would be awesome. Do you think Willy Tavarez has one of those Willie Mays over the shoulder basket catches in him?
Hey Rocky and Simon... congrats to your Dbacks on making the post season (really)!
Please tell Mr Byrnes to keep his comments about luck out of the media!
The Rockies did everything that the Dbacks seemed to forget (what got them there)... namely play good, solid, foundational baseball...
They played pretty much flawless defense.
They hit what the pitchers were giving them (plate discipline, going with pitches).
They didn't make base running errors.
They made their own "luck".
They're riding an amazing streak...
Thought I'd comment,here,Tom,before this series fades into oblivion...You're right,the D-backs should be awfully proud of their season---they had a great run in spite of their youth and inexperience...I few of my observations,other than the Rocky's just plain playing great baseball,were the youthful D-backs showing the playoff pressure finally getting to them...
Their season was marked with a resiliency,never quitting,come-from-behind victories,'anybody at anytime'...They really played all year like they had absolutely nothing to lose...After sweeping the Cubs,now something was expected of them...They were no longer the 'babybacks',but a legitimate title contender---and that's when a whole different kind of pressure sets in..Suddenly balls are not falling in for base hits and hard line drives are being caught...
I thought 20-year-old Justin Upton made a rookie boo-boo after getting hit with a 78 mile an hour curveball...He should have been happy to reach first and help his team get back in the game...Instead,he glares at the pitcher,and when told by Troy Tulowitzki to 'just get his a$$ over to first base' desides to make it personal and look to get even with a Rocky's player...We could look at all the replays we want,the ump's heard the conversation on the field,they so the look in Upton's eyes---they could see his intent more than the cameras..He looked like he was trying to take out a player rather than break up a double play,and it killed a potential rally...
Eric Byrnes not only provided some good bulletin board fodder for the Rocky's,he put way too much undo pressure on himself and his team...When you're losing a series,you don't call the other team 'lucky',or say you're outplaying them---unless you're in highschool...I was embarrassed for him,he not only shot his mouth off,...he looked like a chump the rest of the series...I wouldn't be surprised if the D-backs shopped Byrnes in the off-season and offered him a fresh start somewhere else...Not because he did anything unforgiveable,but they've spent the last ten years building a sound,fundemental baseball team with an emphasis on good sportsmanship,and grandstanding and the like doesn't fit into their persona....
Rocky and I talked about it a little last night,but I'm thinking it might serve Justin Upton well to spend a little more time in AAA ball (he jumped from AA to the bigs)...He may have major league talent,but you need to have a major league attitude to go with it...
Errors are part of the game,and even experienced players make them in crucial games--but experienced teams are better at picking eachother up...After Connor Jackson's error on an easy grounder,the dam really broke for Arizona and Colorado basically put the game and the series away with Holliday's homer...You can't give a good team more than three outs in an inning,yet sometimes the pitcher has to bail out his fielders...
Speaking of which,I never liked the scoring rule,that whatever runs score after a two-out error occurs is considered an unearned run...If a pitcher gives up a two out error and then gives up four straight homeruns,they all count as unearned runs in the books---which seems kinda misleading to me...
Just like for Livo last night... he ONLY had ONE bad inning! :blink:
We've been saying that about stRanger pitching for nigh on 35 years... 45 if you count the DC days...
Simon, thanks for the story behind the story... hopefully they'll be back in the playoffs again in time to enjoy it together, but these things can't be taken for granted (unless you're a BoSox or NYY)... lots of youngsters on both of those NL teams... they were saying the other night that Tulo was drafted in 2005 and I think he came up for September last year... crazy, as you said there's something to be said for "aging" a bit, but sometimes (I guess) the talent demands to play... I think Tex made it in two years, but that's about the fastest I can remember around here... never in one year, not someone that stuck anyway...
Hopefully they'll get back... a year older and a year wiser... hopefully...
Tonight... the dreaded NO BASEBALL night... I hate it.
Much has been made in the media of the youthfulness of the Diamondbacks, (and excuses made for their errors because of it). Lost in the talk of the young 'Backs stellar season, it is seldom mentioned that the Rockies finished only 1/2 game behind the 'Backs during the season.
Following are the hard facts:
Lining up
• The ages of the Rockies and the Diamondbacks regulars:
Pos. RockiesAgeDiamondbacksAge
C Yorvit Torrealba 29 Chris Snyder 26
1B Todd Helton 34 Tony Clark 35
2B Kazuo Matsui 31 Augie Ojeda 32
3B Garrett Atkins 27 Mark Reynolds 24
SS Troy Tulowitzki 22 Stephen Drew 24
LF Matt Holliday 27 Eric Byrnes 31
CF Willy Taveras 25 Chris Young 24
RF Brad Hawpe 28 Justin Upton 20
SP Jeff Francis 26 Brandon Webb 28
SP Ubaldo Jimenez 23 Doug Davis 32
SP Josh Fogg 30 Livan Hernandez 32
SP Fanklin Morales 21 Micah Owings 25
Cl Manny Corpas 24 Jose Valverde 28
The Totals: Rockies total years of age= 347 or an average age of 26.69
Diamondbacks total years= 361 or an average age of 27.77
Who is the youthful team? It is unfortunate that the media and the east coast wa so late to catch Rocktober fever, but the Rockies won with a never fear never give up attitude. both teams have built from within, with the Rockies having a slight edge in that category as well.
Yes, the Diamondbacks did well with their youth. The Rockies did better. They stuck to what brought them to the dance, and peaked at the right time. The payrolls of the two teams are within $2 mil of each other, in the mid $50mil range. Both teams did better with less money than almost anyone in MLB.
by the way, Tulo SHOULD be highly considered for rookie of the year. Cal Ripken was awed by his ability at his age, and Ripken should know. Dang, the kid has an arm, reads the ball off the bat like nobody else, and importantly, has demonstrated an uncanny leadership on the team that is inspiring.
BOTH teams had awesome seasons, and have extremely promising futures next year. I am not belittling the diamondbacks, but it is high time that the Rockies get their due, and in spite of Eric Byrnes' comments, luck was only a small part of their success. (some luck is generally a factor in any championship, in any sport) The Rockies outplayed the Diamondbacks through the 4 games, in every aspect. the better team????? the one that is going to the REALLY BIG SHOW!
Much has been made in the media of the youthfulness of the Diamondbacks, (and excuses made for their errors because of it). Lost in the talk of the young 'Backs stellar season, it is seldom mentioned that the Rockies finished only 1/2 game behind the 'Backs during the season.
Following are the hard facts:
Lining up
• The ages of the Rockies and the Diamondbacks regulars:
Pos. RockiesAgeDiamondbacksAge
C Yorvit Torrealba 29 Chris Snyder 26
1B Todd Helton 34 Tony Clark 35
2B Kazuo Matsui 31 Augie Ojeda 32
3B Garrett Atkins 27 Mark Reynolds 24
SS Troy Tulowitzki 22 Stephen Drew 24
LF Matt Holliday 27 Eric Byrnes 31
CF Willy Taveras 25 Chris Young 24
RF Brad Hawpe 28 Justin Upton 20
SP Jeff Francis 26 Brandon Webb 28
SP Ubaldo Jimenez 23 Doug Davis 32
SP Josh Fogg 30 Livan Hernandez 32
SP Fanklin Morales 21 Micah Owings 25
Cl Manny Corpas 24 Jose Valverde 28
The Totals: Rockies total years of age= 347 or an average age of 26.69
Diamondbacks total years= 361 or an average age of 27.77
Who is the youthful team? It is unfortunate that the media and the east coast wa so late to catch Rocktober fever, but the Rockies won with a never fear never give up attitude. both teams have built from within, with the Rockies having a slight edge in that category as well.
Yes, the Diamondbacks did well with their youth. The Rockies did better. They stuck to what brought them to the dance, and peaked at the right time. The payrolls of the two teams are within $2 mil of each other, in the mid $50mil range. Both teams did better with less money than almost anyone in MLB.
by the way, Tulo SHOULD be highly considered for rookie of the year. Cal Ripken was awed by his ability at his age, and Ripken should know. Dang, the kid has an arm, reads the ball off the bat like nobody else, and importantly, has demonstrated an uncanny leadership on the team that is inspiring.
BOTH teams had awesome seasons, and have extremely promising futures next year. I am not belittling the diamondbacks, but it is high time that the Rockies get their due, and in spite of Eric Byrnes' comments, luck was only a small part of their success. (some luck is generally a factor in any championship, in any sport) The Rockies outplayed the Diamondbacks through the 4 games, in every aspect. the better team????? the one that is going to the REALLY BIG SHOW!
~HAP
That's FAULTY analysis.
I don't know who the Rockies "regulars" are or would be, but I can tell you that whoever did yours plugged in the wrong players as regulars at a couple of positions, and failed to account for the fact that, for example, Ojeda has been a journeyman minor leaguer, despite his age. His age DOES give him some depth in understanding and skill that a younger guy might not have, but he ALSO is NEW to the MLB playoffs, AND he was only a regular due to someone else's injury.
I'm not going to argue it with you, just give you those examples of how that analysis is nonsense. Take it or leave it.
For some reason, when I tried to edit for grammar, it wouldn't take... I meant to say that whoever did the analysis you presented plugged in the wrong Dbacks players at a couple of positions.
I don't know who the Rockies "regulars" are or would be, but I can tell you that whoever did yours plugged in the wrong players as regulars at a couple of positions, and failed to account for the fact that, for example, Ojeda has been a journeyman minor leaguer, despite his age. His age DOES give him some depth in understanding and skill that a younger guy might not have, but he ALSO is NEW to the MLB playoffs, AND he was only a regular due to someone else's injury.
I'm not going to argue it with you, just give you those examples of how that analysis is nonsense. Take it or leave it.
For some reason, when I tried to edit for grammar, it wouldn't take... I meant to say that whoever did the analysis you presented plugged in the wrong Dbacks players at a couple of positions.
ok, Rocky it wasn't an argument, but rather to point out that there is very little difference between the two teams agewise, even with adjustments. Who else beside Ojeda? It appears to me the list is correct for most of the games of the series. I also wish to express my hope that BOTH remain so competitively matched. The article I took the numbers from was written by Tracy Ringolsby, for the Rocky Mountain News, and is dated October 11, 2007, which was the day of game 1.
Make whatever corrections you wish, how much does it change? Are the diamondbacks now averaging 6 months older instead of a year? Are they younger than the Rockies? big deal. faulty? naw I do not believe the 'backs problems in this series were in any way related to their age. They do not differ significantly from the Rockies in that regard.
As far as whether one team or one player had experience in the playoffs or not is of no consequence. Helton (age 34)has been in the league for 11 years now and this was HIS first time in the playoffs. shoot, the Rockies' team had only been in one round (4 games) of the playoffs since they began, and THAT was in 1995 against Atlanta.
Take their youth as solace for hope or whatever, but I am not buying it as an excuse for their loss of the series. As I said in the earlier post, BOTH teams are young and both did well. While the Rockies finished a whole 1/2 game behind in the regular season, they ARE going to the World Series and deserve credit from the media for what they accomplished.
On second thought, maybe let the Indians or the Redsocks think it was only luck that got the Rockies to this point, for another couple of weeks. Let them be as unprepared as all their other opponents have been.
ok, Rocky it wasn't an argument, but rather to point out that there is very little difference between the two teams agewise, even with adjustments.
Take their youth as solace for hope or whatever, but I am not buying it as an excuse for their loss of the series. As I said in the earlier post, BOTH teams are young and both did well. While the Rockies finished a whole 1/2 game behind in the regular season, they ARE going to the World Series and deserve credit from the media for what they accomplished.
~HAP
Hap,I don't know who's making excuses...I pointed out some of what I thought were blatant examples of the D-Backs immaturity contributing to their demise,but that doesn't take anything away from what the Rockies have accomplished....The same youthful,D-back's team that lost to the Rockies is the one that swept the $100 million "middle aged" Cubs team in three straight...The Cubs couldn't exploit the D-backs youth---the Rockies did,and that makes them the better team and the one that belongs in the World Series...Excuses are things like the weather,bad hops,crooked umpires,black cats,billy goats,Steve Bartmans,mercurochrome and the like...The D-backs lost with the team that got them there....The Rockies won with the team that got them there...The Rockies deserve to take a bow...
Hap,I don't know who's making excuses...I pointed out some of what I thought were blatant examples of the D-Backs immaturity contributing to their demise,but that doesn't take anything away from what the Rockies have accomplished....The same youthful,D-back's team that lost to the Rockies is the one that swept the $100 million "middle aged" Cubs team in three straight...The Cubs couldn't exploit the D-backs youth---the Rockies did,and that makes them the better team and the one that belongs in the World Series...Excuses are things like the weather,bad hops,crooked umpires,black cats,billy goats,Steve Bartmans,mercurochrome and the like...The D-backs lost with the team that got them there....The Rockies won with the team that got them there...The Rockies deserve to take a bow...
Thanks SimonZ. I was not pointing at you or anyone on this board. as I said in the first line of that post I was referring to several national media stories:
Much has been made in the mediaof the youthfulness of the Diamondbacks, (and excuses made for their errors because of it). Lost in the talk of the young 'Backs stellar season, it is seldom mentioned that the Rockies finished only 1/2 game behind the 'Backs during the season.
This board has been congratulatory of the Rockies for the most part.
We've been saying that about stRanger pitching for nigh on 35 years... 45 if you count the DC days...
hey, that's MY time!!!
The problem with those years is that many times senators pitchers had woefully little help...and I'm not just talking about the bats.
there was the time (I was there) a Senators pitcher, I can't remember who it was, struck out a Cleveland Indian with the bases loaded and two out in the top of the 9th, and the Senators up by one. Trouble was the catcher (whose name i DO remember, Mike Brumley) lost the ball. It wasnt a wile pitch; he just let it roll away from him. he couldnt get it in time, the tying run scored as the batter reached first base, and the Indians won it later in the inning. The headline in the Post sports section the next morning was "Nats lose after 3 out in 9th".
Yes, the batter can go on the third strike despite first base being occupied, because there were two out.
ok, Rocky it wasn't an argument, but rather to point out that there is very little difference between the two teams agewise, even with adjustments. Who else beside Ojeda? It appears to me the list is correct for most of the games of the series. I also wish to express my hope that BOTH remain so competitively matched. The article I took the numbers from was written by Tracy Ringolsby, for the Rocky Mountain News, and is dated October 11, 2007, which was the day of game 1.
Make whatever corrections you wish, how much does it change? Are the diamondbacks now averaging 6 months older instead of a year? Are they younger than the Rockies? big deal. faulty? naw I do not believe the 'backs problems in this series were in any way related to their age. They do not differ significantly from the Rockies in that regard.
As far as whether one team or one player had experience in the playoffs or not is of no consequence. Helton (age 34)has been in the league for 11 years now and this was HIS first time in the playoffs. shoot, the Rockies' team had only been in one round (4 games) of the playoffs since they began, and THAT was in 1995 against Atlanta.
Take their youth as solace for hope or whatever, but I am not buying it as an excuse for their loss of the series. As I said in the earlier post, BOTH teams are young and both did well. While the Rockies finished a whole 1/2 game behind in the regular season, they ARE going to the World Series and deserve credit from the media for what they accomplished.
On second thought, maybe let the Indians or the Redsocks think it was only luck that got the Rockies to this point, for another couple of weeks. Let them be as unprepared as all their other opponents have been.
~HAP
The point you appeared to be trying to make is that the Rockies are actually younger than the Dbacks.
That the Rockies are actually younger is simply, by virtue of THAT analysis, NOT true.
The Rockies get the NL championship, who cares how old they are?
I'm not going to correct the analysis or argue its merits. I pointed out examples of how it was faulty. If you want to hold onto it, far be it from me to oppose you.
At this point, I'm just hoping for an exciting 2007 WS and a better Dbacks showing next year.
Who was that Senator's guy that pitched a complete 16 inning game and struck out 21 batters?...Gawd,he musta thrown 200 pitches that game...When the Expos moved to Washington,I wish they would have used the Senators name instead of the Nationals...
Take their youth as solace for hope or whatever, but I am not buying it as an excuse for their loss of the series. As I said in the earlier post, BOTH teams are young and both did well. While the Rockies finished a whole 1/2 game behind in the regular season, they ARE going to the World Series and deserve credit from the media for what they accomplished.
~HAP
I don't remember seeing, reading or writing by anyone here about any excuses for the dbacks loss. They got beat. End of story.
Another story, which I posted but NO one acknowledged, is that Bob Melvin is the NL Manager of the Year. I believe he (and his coaching staff) deserve the honor. They achieved beyond expectations.
I don't remember seeing, reading or writing by anyone here about any excuses for the dbacks loss. They got beat. End of story.
Another story, which I posted but NO one acknowledged, is that Bob Melvin is the NL Manager of the Year. I believe he (and his coaching staff) deserve the honor. They achieved beyond expectations.
yes they do, although I was waiting for the news to break somewhere other than at Greasespot as I missed it in the paper.
and correct, I explained the "excusees" thing earlier. Not directed to posters here
The latest from the Mars Exploration Rover Mission homepage...
Spirit Begins Third Martian Year
As it finished its second Martian year on Mars, NASA's Mars Exploration Rover Spirit was beginning to examine a group of angular rocks given informal names corresponding to peaks in the Colorado Rockies. A Martian year -- the amount of time it takes Mars to complete one orbit around the sun -- lasts for 687 Earth days. Spirit completed its second Martian year on the rover's 1,338th Martian day, or sol, corresponding to Oct. 8, 2007.
Two days later, on sol 1,340 (Oct. 10, 2007), Spirit used its front hazard-identification camera to capture this wide-angle view of its robotic arm extended to a rock informally named "Humboldt Peak." For the rocks at this site on the southern edge of the "Home Plate" platform in the inner basin of the Columbia Hills inside Gusev Crater, the rover team decided to use names of Colorado peaks higher than 14,000 feet. The Colorado Rockies team of the National League is the connection to the baseball-theme nomenclature being used for features around Home Plate.
The tool facing Spirit on the turret at the end of the robotic arm is the Mössbauer spectrometer.
yes they do, although I was waiting for the news to break somewhere other than at Greasespot as I missed it in the paper.
and correct, I explained the "excusees" thing earlier. Not directed to posters here
I'm sure you can find it by doing a google news search. However, in post #2607, I provided a link (one of many available) to a publicly available news source for that story.... the news broke everywhere other than at Greasespot before I posted it.
Why in the world would you expect a Denver paper to make that a top story?
NOW... back to the baseball... what happens tonight? Was there more to Francosa holding out Beckett than meets the eye? Did it have something to do with him being lifted after only 80 pitches with 'stiffness'??? Has Sabathia regained his 'moxy' to go right at the heart of the BoSox order or will he pitch defensively again?
...at least on the night off I was able to watch part 3 of "The War"... very moving.
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I missed the LLWS. The boy had baseball practice 4-7. Playing in a USSSA tournament this coming weekend. The new season has just started. Can ya'll believe we are in September of the ML baseball s
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Linda Z
Hahahahahahaha Simon. Doesn't matter. We still beat 'em!! One more to go!!!!
I love Paul Byrd. Nice humble guy who just puts his heart into it and pitches like crazy. I thought he should have been the MVP for the game he won against the Yankees.
I would *love* love love love LOVE (that's for you, Rocky) to see the Indians wrap it up in game 5.
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Rocky
Exactly!
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Rocky
Which MIGHT just broaden his perspective on Global Warming!
Btw, they changed the name of Discovery HD Theater, dropping "Discovery" because NOW all the other Discovery related channels are available in HD also... I find the Science Channel especially interesting... not to mention Meerkat Manor on Animal Planet...
But also there's lot's of HD sports!
Well, SHOOT... now the WS NOT in HD... well, good grief.
btw, I don't even know what channel LUSH is on... if it's the FIXED NOISE CHANNEL, I (by choice, of course) don't get that one.
I think he said he has DISH Network... which I also have.
The channels for HD and nonHD are set up as you described ALSO on DISH. And when I moved back in 2005, I got one of those over the air antennas to clip onto my dish... however, I no longer need it because all of my local channels are now carried in HD on DISH.
Just like for Livo last night... he ONLY had ONE bad inning! :blink:
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Rocky
I'd be with you on that... it's been a LONGGGGGGGGGGGGGG time since they've been to the BIG October show!
I think a Rockies/Indians match up would be awesome. Do you think Willy Tavarez has one of those Willie Mays over the shoulder basket catches in him?
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simonzelotes
Thought I'd comment,here,Tom,before this series fades into oblivion...You're right,the D-backs should be awfully proud of their season---they had a great run in spite of their youth and inexperience...I few of my observations,other than the Rocky's just plain playing great baseball,were the youthful D-backs showing the playoff pressure finally getting to them...
Their season was marked with a resiliency,never quitting,come-from-behind victories,'anybody at anytime'...They really played all year like they had absolutely nothing to lose...After sweeping the Cubs,now something was expected of them...They were no longer the 'babybacks',but a legitimate title contender---and that's when a whole different kind of pressure sets in..Suddenly balls are not falling in for base hits and hard line drives are being caught...
I thought 20-year-old Justin Upton made a rookie boo-boo after getting hit with a 78 mile an hour curveball...He should have been happy to reach first and help his team get back in the game...Instead,he glares at the pitcher,and when told by Troy Tulowitzki to 'just get his a$$ over to first base' desides to make it personal and look to get even with a Rocky's player...We could look at all the replays we want,the ump's heard the conversation on the field,they so the look in Upton's eyes---they could see his intent more than the cameras..He looked like he was trying to take out a player rather than break up a double play,and it killed a potential rally...
Eric Byrnes not only provided some good bulletin board fodder for the Rocky's,he put way too much undo pressure on himself and his team...When you're losing a series,you don't call the other team 'lucky',or say you're outplaying them---unless you're in highschool...I was embarrassed for him,he not only shot his mouth off,...he looked like a chump the rest of the series...I wouldn't be surprised if the D-backs shopped Byrnes in the off-season and offered him a fresh start somewhere else...Not because he did anything unforgiveable,but they've spent the last ten years building a sound,fundemental baseball team with an emphasis on good sportsmanship,and grandstanding and the like doesn't fit into their persona....
Rocky and I talked about it a little last night,but I'm thinking it might serve Justin Upton well to spend a little more time in AAA ball (he jumped from AA to the bigs)...He may have major league talent,but you need to have a major league attitude to go with it...
Errors are part of the game,and even experienced players make them in crucial games--but experienced teams are better at picking eachother up...After Connor Jackson's error on an easy grounder,the dam really broke for Arizona and Colorado basically put the game and the series away with Holliday's homer...You can't give a good team more than three outs in an inning,yet sometimes the pitcher has to bail out his fielders...
Speaking of which,I never liked the scoring rule,that whatever runs score after a two-out error occurs is considered an unearned run...If a pitcher gives up a two out error and then gives up four straight homeruns,they all count as unearned runs in the books---which seems kinda misleading to me...
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rhino
The channel is called RUSH ... 9476 ... all action ... surfing paragliding ...
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Rocky
Oh, yes... I remember now... part of the VOOM HD channels... Adrenaline junkie sports...
Naw, I don't watch it. but good action packed stuff.
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Tom Strange
We've been saying that about stRanger pitching for nigh on 35 years... 45 if you count the DC days...
Simon, thanks for the story behind the story... hopefully they'll be back in the playoffs again in time to enjoy it together, but these things can't be taken for granted (unless you're a BoSox or NYY)... lots of youngsters on both of those NL teams... they were saying the other night that Tulo was drafted in 2005 and I think he came up for September last year... crazy, as you said there's something to be said for "aging" a bit, but sometimes (I guess) the talent demands to play... I think Tex made it in two years, but that's about the fastest I can remember around here... never in one year, not someone that stuck anyway...
Hopefully they'll get back... a year older and a year wiser... hopefully...
Tonight... the dreaded NO BASEBALL night... I hate it.
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HAPe4me
Much has been made in the media of the youthfulness of the Diamondbacks, (and excuses made for their errors because of it). Lost in the talk of the young 'Backs stellar season, it is seldom mentioned that the Rockies finished only 1/2 game behind the 'Backs during the season.
Following are the hard facts:
Lining up
• The ages of the Rockies and the Diamondbacks regulars:
Pos. Rockies Age Diamondbacks Age
C Yorvit Torrealba 29 Chris Snyder 26
1B Todd Helton 34 Tony Clark 35
2B Kazuo Matsui 31 Augie Ojeda 32
3B Garrett Atkins 27 Mark Reynolds 24
SS Troy Tulowitzki 22 Stephen Drew 24
LF Matt Holliday 27 Eric Byrnes 31
CF Willy Taveras 25 Chris Young 24
RF Brad Hawpe 28 Justin Upton 20
SP Jeff Francis 26 Brandon Webb 28
SP Ubaldo Jimenez 23 Doug Davis 32
SP Josh Fogg 30 Livan Hernandez 32
SP Fanklin Morales 21 Micah Owings 25
Cl Manny Corpas 24 Jose Valverde 28
The Totals: Rockies total years of age= 347 or an average age of 26.69
Diamondbacks total years= 361 or an average age of 27.77
Who is the youthful team? It is unfortunate that the media and the east coast wa so late to catch Rocktober fever, but the Rockies won with a never fear never give up attitude. both teams have built from within, with the Rockies having a slight edge in that category as well.
Yes, the Diamondbacks did well with their youth. The Rockies did better. They stuck to what brought them to the dance, and peaked at the right time. The payrolls of the two teams are within $2 mil of each other, in the mid $50mil range. Both teams did better with less money than almost anyone in MLB.
by the way, Tulo SHOULD be highly considered for rookie of the year. Cal Ripken was awed by his ability at his age, and Ripken should know. Dang, the kid has an arm, reads the ball off the bat like nobody else, and importantly, has demonstrated an uncanny leadership on the team that is inspiring.
BOTH teams had awesome seasons, and have extremely promising futures next year. I am not belittling the diamondbacks, but it is high time that the Rockies get their due, and in spite of Eric Byrnes' comments, luck was only a small part of their success. (some luck is generally a factor in any championship, in any sport) The Rockies outplayed the Diamondbacks through the 4 games, in every aspect. the better team????? the one that is going to the REALLY BIG SHOW!
~HAP
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rhino
So what is the best age ... or the peak age ... ?
I suppose for fielding and running it is younger, hitting may be a little better with age ... pitching ... knuckleballers are good to 45 or so ...
But both Colorado and Arizona got pretty good bang, from the young bucks, for the buck ... it seems ...
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Rocky
That's FAULTY analysis.
I don't know who the Rockies "regulars" are or would be, but I can tell you that whoever did yours plugged in the wrong players as regulars at a couple of positions, and failed to account for the fact that, for example, Ojeda has been a journeyman minor leaguer, despite his age. His age DOES give him some depth in understanding and skill that a younger guy might not have, but he ALSO is NEW to the MLB playoffs, AND he was only a regular due to someone else's injury.
I'm not going to argue it with you, just give you those examples of how that analysis is nonsense. Take it or leave it.
For some reason, when I tried to edit for grammar, it wouldn't take... I meant to say that whoever did the analysis you presented plugged in the wrong Dbacks players at a couple of positions.
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HAPe4me
ok, Rocky it wasn't an argument, but rather to point out that there is very little difference between the two teams agewise, even with adjustments. Who else beside Ojeda? It appears to me the list is correct for most of the games of the series. I also wish to express my hope that BOTH remain so competitively matched. The article I took the numbers from was written by Tracy Ringolsby, for the Rocky Mountain News, and is dated October 11, 2007, which was the day of game 1.
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/mlb/...5719586,00.html
Make whatever corrections you wish, how much does it change? Are the diamondbacks now averaging 6 months older instead of a year? Are they younger than the Rockies? big deal. faulty? naw I do not believe the 'backs problems in this series were in any way related to their age. They do not differ significantly from the Rockies in that regard.
As far as whether one team or one player had experience in the playoffs or not is of no consequence. Helton (age 34)has been in the league for 11 years now and this was HIS first time in the playoffs. shoot, the Rockies' team had only been in one round (4 games) of the playoffs since they began, and THAT was in 1995 against Atlanta.
Take their youth as solace for hope or whatever, but I am not buying it as an excuse for their loss of the series. As I said in the earlier post, BOTH teams are young and both did well. While the Rockies finished a whole 1/2 game behind in the regular season, they ARE going to the World Series and deserve credit from the media for what they accomplished.
On second thought, maybe let the Indians or the Redsocks think it was only luck that got the Rockies to this point, for another couple of weeks. Let them be as unprepared as all their other opponents have been.
~HAP
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simonzelotes
Hap,I don't know who's making excuses...I pointed out some of what I thought were blatant examples of the D-Backs immaturity contributing to their demise,but that doesn't take anything away from what the Rockies have accomplished....The same youthful,D-back's team that lost to the Rockies is the one that swept the $100 million "middle aged" Cubs team in three straight...The Cubs couldn't exploit the D-backs youth---the Rockies did,and that makes them the better team and the one that belongs in the World Series...Excuses are things like the weather,bad hops,crooked umpires,black cats,billy goats,Steve Bartmans,mercurochrome and the like...The D-backs lost with the team that got them there....The Rockies won with the team that got them there...The Rockies deserve to take a bow...
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HAPe4me
Thanks SimonZ. I was not pointing at you or anyone on this board. as I said in the first line of that post I was referring to several national media stories:
This board has been congratulatory of the Rockies for the most part.
~HAP
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Lifted Up
hey, that's MY time!!!
The problem with those years is that many times senators pitchers had woefully little help...and I'm not just talking about the bats.
there was the time (I was there) a Senators pitcher, I can't remember who it was, struck out a Cleveland Indian with the bases loaded and two out in the top of the 9th, and the Senators up by one. Trouble was the catcher (whose name i DO remember, Mike Brumley) lost the ball. It wasnt a wile pitch; he just let it roll away from him. he couldnt get it in time, the tying run scored as the batter reached first base, and the Indians won it later in the inning. The headline in the Post sports section the next morning was "Nats lose after 3 out in 9th".
Yes, the batter can go on the third strike despite first base being occupied, because there were two out.
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Rocky
The point you appeared to be trying to make is that the Rockies are actually younger than the Dbacks.
That the Rockies are actually younger is simply, by virtue of THAT analysis, NOT true.
The Rockies get the NL championship, who cares how old they are?
I'm not going to correct the analysis or argue its merits. I pointed out examples of how it was faulty. If you want to hold onto it, far be it from me to oppose you.
At this point, I'm just hoping for an exciting 2007 WS and a better Dbacks showing next year.
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simonzelotes
Who was that Senator's guy that pitched a complete 16 inning game and struck out 21 batters?...Gawd,he musta thrown 200 pitches that game...When the Expos moved to Washington,I wish they would have used the Senators name instead of the Nationals...
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Rocky
I don't remember seeing, reading or writing by anyone here about any excuses for the dbacks loss. They got beat. End of story.
Another story, which I posted but NO one acknowledged, is that Bob Melvin is the NL Manager of the Year. I believe he (and his coaching staff) deserve the honor. They achieved beyond expectations.
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HAPe4me
yes they do, although I was waiting for the news to break somewhere other than at Greasespot as I missed it in the paper.
and correct, I explained the "excusees" thing earlier. Not directed to posters here
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Lifted Up
The latest from the Mars Exploration Rover Mission homepage...
Spirit Begins Third Martian Year
As it finished its second Martian year on Mars, NASA's Mars Exploration Rover Spirit was beginning to examine a group of angular rocks given informal names corresponding to peaks in the Colorado Rockies. A Martian year -- the amount of time it takes Mars to complete one orbit around the sun -- lasts for 687 Earth days. Spirit completed its second Martian year on the rover's 1,338th Martian day, or sol, corresponding to Oct. 8, 2007.
Two days later, on sol 1,340 (Oct. 10, 2007), Spirit used its front hazard-identification camera to capture this wide-angle view of its robotic arm extended to a rock informally named "Humboldt Peak." For the rocks at this site on the southern edge of the "Home Plate" platform in the inner basin of the Columbia Hills inside Gusev Crater, the rover team decided to use names of Colorado peaks higher than 14,000 feet. The Colorado Rockies team of the National League is the connection to the baseball-theme nomenclature being used for features around Home Plate.
The tool facing Spirit on the turret at the end of the robotic arm is the Mössbauer spectrometer.
__________________________________________________
So...my question...are the Rockies really from mars???
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HAPe4me
no, they are from the Lucky Star.
~HAP
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Rocky
I'm sure you can find it by doing a google news search. However, in post #2607, I provided a link (one of many available) to a publicly available news source for that story.... the news broke everywhere other than at Greasespot before I posted it.
Why in the world would you expect a Denver paper to make that a top story?
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HAPe4me
you have a point there Rocky the paper was a bit filled with other baseball news that morning Ok, a belated congrats to your coach and his staff.
~HAP
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Tom Strange
Please quit it.
NOW... back to the baseball... what happens tonight? Was there more to Francosa holding out Beckett than meets the eye? Did it have something to do with him being lifted after only 80 pitches with 'stiffness'??? Has Sabathia regained his 'moxy' to go right at the heart of the BoSox order or will he pitch defensively again?
...at least on the night off I was able to watch part 3 of "The War"... very moving.
BASEBALL!!!
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