Baseball (the talkin' sport)

[simonzelotes]

Hey,thanks for the welcome back,mstar....Although I don't normally like to play GM,good insight on the Bosox picking up that catcher...I was sitting w/ my daughter where she worked the night that catcher came to Boston---something like 45 minutes before gametime and then catching Wakefield...I was trying to explain the quirks of the knuckleballer to her---the slow,crazy movement on the ball and the tough time the catcher was having with it...Well,she at least acted like she was getting a kick out of it...

[hiway29]

mstar-for all your demeaning of Arod, you do remember that the Red Sox were ready to pay the big bucks for him also-and Sox fan was angry and disappointed that they didn't get him

The Red Sox are a big market big money team., that I agree are making good choices.

And while I agree that Steinbrenner goes after bad fit big money players, the organization knows the chess game and has done quite well.

This is when baseball analyst will cry-but they haven't won since 2000!

[mstar1]

something like 45 minutes before gametime and then catching Wakefield.

Thats being generous-the plane actually landed about 25 minutes lbefore game time, and Mirabelli (Beerabelly) got a State Police escort from Logan Airport to Fenway which took them an unheard of 13 minutes, Mirabelli, raced into the field about 3 minutes before game time and caught that night-(just an example of the front office in action).

I caught a knuckleballer in high school-an impossible task-I Think Im still bruised, which since Im up late brings me to another point Ive been thinking about. for the last week or so-playing the game right.

One of my favorite things about baseball is watching the play unfold on the field. The choreographed ballet of fielders moving into position after a double into the gap with runners on first and second is both beautiful to watch and intregal to the game. Players correctly assuming their defensive responsibilities - throwing to the correct base, hitting the cut-off man, backing up a base, talking to their teammates (cut 3rd), so many little things that come under the heading of playing the game right, and absolutely affect the run environment of the game, but are not measured by any available stat.

Some players are spectacular at this with Derek Jeter maybe the best I've ever seen. ( See I dont hate all the Yankees) I know that he has limited range, especially on balls hit up the middle, but the guy is always in the correct position to take a cut off throw (lined up with the base), always throws to the right base, always is backing up a play when it is his responsibility, always talking to his teammates (I'm guessing about game situation, but that's just conjecture).

On the other side of that coin are players that do not pay close attention to game situations. Second basemen that forget to cover 2nd on a ball hit to SS with a man on 1st, outfielders that miss the cut-off man, pitchers that don't cover first on a ground ball to the right side. These mistakes cost teams runs.

In a game from last week, Mirabelli came to bat with runners on 1st and 2nd and 1 out. He hit a ball off the wall in left, Alfonso Soraino fielded it cleanly and threw to third, where he had no chance of a play. The throw allowed Mirabelli to go to second. If Soriano had thrown to 2nd, the large and slow Mirabelli would have had to stay at first.

Dumb baseball.

With runners on 2nd and 3rd the Nats played the infield in, and Alex Cora hit a ground ball just out of the reach of the Washington SS, Royce Clayton.

Had Soriano thrown the ball to 2nd base and kept Mirabelli at first, then Clayton would have been playing back and he would have fielded the ball, perhaps turning an inning ending double play. Not throwing to the correct base - not playing the game right - cost the Nationals runs.

The Sox went on to score 6 runs that inning.

Human errors are part of baseball, but common sense fundamental playing the game right,that should be learned in AA,heck in little league, seems to me to be slowly eroding from more and more teams, or something they dont pay real close attention to.

Playing the game right is part of the game that doesnt cost any extra, if the right players are chosen carefully, that translates in the long haul into wins

[hiway29]

Couldn't agree with you more, mstar.

Soriano is playing outfield with a bad attitude to begin with. He didn't want to go there, and probably is lost at times. Who knows if he's trying to get better, or what the coaching staff is doing.

[mstar1]

mstar-for all your demeaning of Arod, you do remember that the Red Sox were ready to pay the big bucks for him also-and Sox fan was angry and disappointed that they didn't get him

The Red Sox are a big market big money team., that I agree are making good choices.

Yea I know, I thought it would have been great in the winter of '03 to get him too, but the more i see him up close (about 20 times ayear)and hear his interviews the more Im glad that the deal fell through.

When Johnny"I'll never play for the Yankees" Damon signed he quoted ARod as saying that it would be good for Damon because, Jeter, ARod and Damon would all be reaching career milestones at the same time together and could go in the Hall together---nothing about winning championships-It was all about individual accomplishments---- which is the way he strikes me. That bugs me as being selfish and part of the game that doesnt really intrigue me all that much. It actually ticks me of at this point in my life.

He is much more Wilt Chamberlain than Bill Russell.

It was like watching that horrible crap about Bonds chasing Ruth a month or so ago. Everydamn day, Barry, Barry, Barry..you could hardly tell if the Giants won or lost in those reports and if he even had teammates...

I dunno I'll get off my soapbox-I know it pulls in some people but its not for me.

And while I agree that Steinbrenner goes after bad fit big money players, the organization knows the chess game and has done quite well.

This is when baseball analyst will cry-but they haven't won since 2000!

I know that they are pretty good, I think somewhere lost in all this, that I was trying to say is the point that money isnt necessarily the everything answer--- to every challenge

[Tom Strange]

Seems everybody wants ARod until they get him... after a couple of years of meaningless stats and clubhouse cancer... not so much...

Maybe it's different with the Yankees in that they have a lot of other stronger personalities around that can keep the cancer part in check though that wasn't the case in Texas...

Anybody see the amazing play that Gary Matthews Jr made tonight? The guys having a very good year...and he seems like a good guy as well...

[Tom Strange]

...oh, and I agree as well with the team ballet concept... and that's one reason that I can't help but be a big fan of Jeter's... he just seems like the ultimate team player... and that play he made at the plate that's getting played on the gatorade commercials, that's a great example...

[hiway29]

That play at the plate during the playoffs is the single most mindboggling example of heads up, baseball instinct and sheer will to win that I've ever seen.

One still has to ask what the heck Jeter was doing there, and gae in awe at how flawlessly he executed it.

I don't usually go the hyperbole route, but I love Derek Jeter like no other player. Sometimes I think he's the glue that keeps it all together, and that the Yankees would bea mess without him.

He has remained amazingly the same after all the success, fame, and intense NY spotlight.You'd never catch Jeter making asinine comments like Arod. He plays every game the same, all out, all for the team.

He's also one of a handful of players that you cannot imagine wearing any other uniform. Never say never in baseball, but Derek Jeter in a Cubs or any other uniform would be sick.

I can think of players that can hit, field, throw, and run better-but Jeter is the ultimate team player, who transcends his natural abilities.

Ok that's enough. I don't mean to deify the guy. He has faults like everyone , but I'll take one Jeter over an infield of Arods any day.

[mstar1]

I guess you like him huh hiway?

I was looking for a picture of Wayne and Garth in their 'we're not worthy pose' but I couldnt find one

He is a great player, Its exasperating at times to see how many great plays he has made over the years against the Sox to snuff out rallies and/or win games, that a normal player wouldnt but still it doesnt stop me from appreciating the remarkable player he is, his amazing skills and what he brings to the game.

I may curse him out of frustration at times, but it doesnt stop me from knowing that he is one of the special players that we are only once in a while privileged to watch.

He is agreat one no doubt-

What I was attempting to get at and understand , is that i dont know why organizations stand for dumb baseball at all, It seems like something that should be taken care of and taught at lower levels, or at the the very least in spring training- but seems to be more and more prevalent, I gave the Soriano example, but two days later I saw Carlos Beltran do basically the same thing when he airmailed the cutoff man in acrucial situation that aided in a 3 run inning. Mistakes happen, but sloppy play that doesnt show up on scorecards anywhere and effects outcomes, seems to be all over the place. Im not sure why, other than players may have become too specialized....dunno, but I think at times that I would rather have aguy who hit 18HRs and had 75 RBI in the field if he knew what he was doing out there, than a 35/100 guy who made the highlight reels every night, but cost you 6 or 8 games a year with bonehead plays.

Anybody see the amazing play that Gary Matthews Jr made tonight?

that guy can fly like spiderman if that catch is any indication-- he got way the hell up there, looked like he was walking up the outfield wall,

Coco made a spectacular one the other night as well, going hard to his right at full speed, full extension crossbody dive to take away a sure gapper in a 3-2 game in the 8th-spectacular thing of beauty-more than a few folks in these parts are putting it up on the all time list.

Coco's catch

you might have to right click and 'save target as'

Edited July 2, 2006 by mstar1

[Tom Strange]

What I was attempting to get at and understand , is that i dont know why organizations stand for dumb baseball at all, It seems like something that should be taken care of and taught at lower levels, or at the the very least in spring training- but seems to be more and more prevalent,

I'll give you the answer in five words: "chicks dig the long ball"

Their low baseball IQ is forgiven because of the offense they bring, I don't know much about Beltran but Soriano I do know... and he gets away with that stuff because of his offense... I guess the owners and GMs are betting that over the course of a season their offensive output will outweigh their defensive deficiencies...

Coco made a spectacular one the other night as well, going hard to his right at full speed, full extension crossbody dive to take away a sure gapper in a 3-2 game in the 8th-spectacular thing of beauty-more than a few folks in these parts are putting it up on the all time list.

GMJ is coming into his own this year I think... perhaps Coco as well... we're fortunate to get to watch them so often...

[mstar1]

GMJ is coming into his own this year I think... perhaps Coco as well... we're fortunate to get to watch them so often...

Yea we are.

another beauty of a game today. Gabe's looking great....

Tie game 3-3 in 8th

Infield hit by Alex Cora (4th Infielder), beautiful hit and run by Gabe Kapler (5th Outfielder), Sac Fly.

Lights out relief (25th save for the kid Papelbon)

Ballgame.

It takes everyone.

not without its mistakes---but I love watching a well played game

[mstar1]

I'll give you the answer in five words: "chicks dig the long ball"

Their low baseball IQ is forgiven because of the offense they bring, I don't know much about Beltran but Soriano I do know... and he gets away with that stuff because of his offense... I guess the owners and GMs are betting that over the course of a season their offensive output will outweigh their defensive deficiencies...

You are probably right --Im thinking that owners think offense will put asses in the seats at least. It may be part of the "SportsCentering' of the game---where the exaltation of homeruns and spectacular plays seems to outweigh in importance whether or not teams actually play the entire game well ....or win or lose.

[mstar1]

Hey Tom ---Speaking of GMJ-here are the AllStar rosters just out , Im sorta ticked Nomar wont be there--thats the first obvious travesty, Mike Lowell is having a helluva year as well----

American League Starters

All-Star

Pos Player B/T Age Games

1B David Ortiz, BOS L/L 30 3

2B Mark Loretta, BOS R/R 34 2

3B Alex Rodriguez, NYY R/R 30 9

SS Derek Jeter, NYY R/R 32 7

C Ivan Rodriguez, DET L/R 23 1

OF Vladimir Guerrero, LAA R/R 30 7

OF Manny Ramirez, BOS R/R 34 8

OF Ichiro Suzuki, SEA L/R 32 6

American League Pitchers

All-Star

Pos Player B/T Age Games

SP Mark Buerhle, CWS L/L 27 3

SP Jose Contreras, CWS R/R 34 1

SP Roy Halladay, TOR R/R 29 2

SP Scott Kazmir, TB L/L 22 1

SP Mark Redman, KC L/L 32 1

SP Kenny Rogers, DET L/L 41 3

SP Johan Santana, MIN L/L 27 2

SP Barry Zito, OAK L/L 28 2

All-Star

Pos Player B/T Age Games

RP Bobby Jenks, CWS R/R 25 1

RP Jon Papelbon, BOS R/R 25 1

RP Mariano Rivera, NYY R/R 36 6

RP B.J. Ryan, TOR L/L 30 2

American League Reserves

All-Star

Pos Player B/T Age Games

1B Paul Konerko, CWS R/R 30 3

1B Jim Thome, CWS L/R 35 5

2B Robinson Cano, NYY º L/R 23 1

2B Jose Lopez, SEA ª R/R 22 1

3B Troy Glaus, TOR R/R 29 4

SS Miguel Tejada, BAL R/R 30 4

SS Michael Young, TEX R/R 29 3

C Joe Mauer, MIN L/R 23 1

OF Jermaine Dye, CWS R/R 32 2

OF Alex Rios, TOR º R/R 25 1

OF Gary Matthews, Jr., TEX ª S/R 31 1

OF Grady Sizemore, CLE L/L 23 1

OF Vernon Wells, TOR R/R 27 2

National League Starters

All-Star

Pos Player B/T Age Games

1B Albert Pujols, STL R/R 26 5

2B Chase Utley, PHI L/R 27 1

3B David Wright, NYM R/R 23 1

SS Jose Reyes, NYM S/R 23 1

C Paul Lo Duca, NYM R/R 34 4

OF Jason Bay, PIT R/R 27 1

OF Carlos Beltran, NYM S/R 29 3

OF Alfonso Soriano, WSH R/R 30 5

National League Pitchers

All-Star

Pos Player B/T Age Games

SP Carlos Zambrano, CHC S/R 25 2

SP Bronson Arroyo, CIN R/R 29 1

SP Brad Penny, LAD R/R 28 1

SP Tom Glavine, NYM L/L 40 7

SP Pedro Martinez, NYM R/R 34 4

SP Chris Carpenter, STL R/R 31 2

SP Jason Schmidt, SF R/R 33 2

All-Star

Pos Player B/T Age Games

RP Brian Fuentes, COL L/L 30 1

RP Derrick Turnbow, MIL R/R 28 1

RP Tom Gordon, PHI R/R 38 3

RP Trevor Hoffman, SD R/R 38 5

National League Reserves

All-Star

Pos Player B/T Age Games

1B Lance Berkman, HOU S/L 30 4

1B Ryan Howard, PHI L/L 26 1

2B Dan Uggla, FLA R/R 26 1

3B Miguel Cabrera, FLA R/R 23 3

3B Freddy Sanchez, PIT R/R 28 1

3B Scott Rolen, STL R/R 31 4

SS Edgar Renteria, ATL R/R 30 5

C Brian McCann, ATL L/R 22 1

OF Andruw Jones, ATL R/R 29 5

OF Matt Holliday, COL R/R 26 1

OF Carlos Lee, MIL R/R 29 2

[Tom Strange]

hey... looky there... Soriano and Beltran on the NL starting squad!

I share your disappointment in that Teixeira isn't on the AL squad but his HRs are down and you can't really argue with Papi's production at the plate...

Watching the stRangers and lAstros play for the "Silver Boot" as we speak...

Edited July 3, 2006 by Tom Strange

[simonzelotes]

How did they determine the starters and the backups this year?

Edited July 3, 2006 by simonzelotes

[mstar1]

Starters were by fan vote----I think the managers got to choose the pitching staff and the subs but Im not exactly positive on that--they had to do the at least one guy from each team thing...somehow the players also voted

Fans still get to fill the last roster spot on each team

HERE

I voted for Nomar and Travis Hafner

even though its an impossible dhoice not to includeFrancisco Liriano

who is 9-1 with an ERA under 2.00

Edited July 3, 2006 by mstar1

[simonzelotes]

So how come Jason Varitek wasn't the starting catcher?

[simonzelotes]

Check that,...he was leading in the votes when I checked earlier but he's #3 now....Boy,those Boston fans really get out and vote,don't they?....There's always going to be some slighted players...Joe Crede's having a better year than A-Rod,but since the World Series was one of the lowest rated last year,he hasn't hit the big time as far as fan voting....I also would have picked Jermaine Dye,who's having a better year than "1-21 in the ACLS" Vladimer Guerrero...And it's a good thing Mark Beuhrle got in under the wire....He only gave up 11 runs on 13 hits in 5 innings against the Cubs today....But,since I don't vote I shouldn't complain...

Edited July 3, 2006 by simonzelotes

[mstar1]

Varitek's not having his greatest year and Boston fans although they are homers know it, and even though I love 'tek I voted for Joe Mauer.

If anything Im more miffed that Schilling or Beckett didnt make the squad, especially Schilling with the year he is having yet Mark Redmond of KC with an ERA near 6 is going... :blink:

FWIW

Dye, Glaus, Howard, Lee, Ortiz, and Wright. 2 more to be named later are in the HR derby.

I hope that nobody pulls an Abreu who after last years exhibition has hit a total of 14 since -i dont think its a good thing to mess with their swings like that

[Tom Strange]

I hope that nobody pulls an Abreu who after last years exhibition has hit a total of 14 since -i dont think its a good thing to mess with their swings like that

yeah... many around here think that Blalock hasn't been the same since "the derby"... totally screwed with his head, his approach and his swing... he hasn't had the same power numbers since...

...we're all right (so to speak) as we enter the second half... a lot of folks are looking for us to be a lot stronger offensively since Rudy Jarimillo was out with the cancer surgery for ST and most of the first half... and if our pitching can just hold up and Eaton give us some good starts! ...ever the optimists we are...

[mstar1]

I still think your idea of a dome last year was a good one, no matter how many ducks are in a row, they have a tendency to melt in August when it is about 130 on the field everyday down there.

Dont they? I know that I sure would

I know when and if the Sox have to do a July or August series down in your place it usually takes them a week to get back on track.

But good luck--maybe they'll be some global cooling for Texas this year.....

[Lifted Up]

My Indians over the **** Yankees, 19 to 1 tonight!!!

They may not win too much this year, but THHIS feels good.

[Tom Strange]

My Indians over the **** Yankees, 19 to 1 tonight!!!

tee hee... happy birthday george!

[mstar1]

Yea happy birthday George!

While we are at it I just ran across some interesting stats--

---------- OBP SLG OPS RUNS

Player A .418 .497 .914 56

Player B .370 .468 .838 60

Salary :

Player A $354,600

Player B $13 Million

Who's the bargain at leadoff?

Player A Kevin Youkilis-Red Sox

Player B Johnny Damon-Yankees

[Tom Strange]

now, now starman!