What she needs is a lot of prayer, and she needs to pray a lot.
I applaud her for her desire to keep her marriage together, and her willingness to keep up appearances until such time as they are both out.
I think that John "igotout" Richeson and his wife Hope are the examples that your friend should follow. Hope waited for 5 years for John to reach the conclusion that they should leave TWItland. I think that Hope would have a lot of good advice for your friend on how to cope, how to gently nudge in the right direction, etc.
Until the day comes when they do leave, she could try looking for outside activities that could be sold as beneficial to her husband or family. Taking a class on calligraphy (great for those cards, you know, etc.), for example. I realize this isn't much but it beats staring at four walls all day. You know her and her situation better. Perhaps there is something along these lines? Just a suggestion.
Thanks, y'all! More viewpoints, suggestions and prayers are definitely what she needs. I may tell her about this thread and see if she'll come on here. She's too scared to, but maybe if she goes to the library..... She can't come to my house because we're not supposed to be talking and she won't use her home computer.
Steve, it's good to be reminded of Hope & John's story. That's what I clung to for the 5 years I fought for my marriage. Hopefully this one will end up like theirs and not like mine. :)-->
JT, I think that's a great idea! Self-help in the practical sense. If nothing else, it gives her another skill, something to be proud of and time to think about something other than her marriage and TWI.
dmiller, you have one of the kindest hearts of anyone I know. Thank you! And I will tell her you said so. ;)-->
I was SAHM during my TWI years. I liked it--I could plan my own schedule, etc. I got out of the house alot, and my hubby and I didn't really do the 2by2 thing or the one week in advance schedule, just between us, though we faked it for the HFC. We lived way across town from our HFC's who would have been the only ones to notice.
I wanted to leave TWI a few years before hubby did, and like your friend I did not want a TWI sponsored divorce. That, plus the lack of money did make things really stressful.
The library was actually something that kept me sane! I could take the kids to storytime, so legit, plus no one else in the entire two branches in the city went to the main library down town for storytime. I could check out any 'forbidden' thing I liked and read them during the day, or when Hubby was gone to fellowship until 10pm. It was a small thing, but it sure helped--plus it was free!
Don't blame twi for this. It is the mindset of the husband and she is bowing to it.
Before they got married she could do this stuff, call mom,girlfriends or go out.The husband caught her hook line and sinker. That was not her fault (maybe?) The husband knew exactly what he wanted. He found the perfect girl that listened to him. It was "Looooove" all sweet and luvy duvy.
Once the hitch(marriage) was made he had her from that point. Now twi likes to teach this sort of crap. He just let her do what she wanted to do. Probably never said things would change after they were married. Probably just the oppisite (" oh baby I love you for what you are and do") When those rings were slid on the fingers, that's when things changed in his mind.
I know she has a child but what is she willing to do? If she wants things to change. She has to be able to step out on her own and say "look here "mofo" if things don't change, I am outta here" This is just everyday life whether you are in or out of twi. She may have one step further to go than the rest of the world. Does she want to leave twi for her sanity. That is another if not the biggest step for her.
I hope and pray what ever direction she turns, it is for her well being. She need to get out of one or both. Most defintly out of twi.
I agree that she will have to take action for herself. Hopefully her husband isn't the type to set the ministry dogs on her by tattling on her. That's something my husband never, ever did.
I did have a tentative plan made for a quick exit, if things went south. Sometime's things seemed so out of my control, back then. My husband always acted like he loved me, but we had been surprised by more than one weird divorce in our area. And I knew what our HFC thought of me.
My parent would have given me money if I needed it. Plus during one of my trips(just kids and I) home, I got in contact with an old employer and friend, who would be able to employ me and help house me and kids temporarily, if it ever came to that. My plan was to go visit my parents and disapear out into the far boonies(Eastern Montana), where my friend ranched and had a bar in a small town. Not much of a plan, but there it is.
Not every having been in "The Way" I cannot speak to the specifics of this woman's case but I was concerned about the linking of losing ones indentity with being a SAHM.
Any time you are involved in a relationship you necessarily give up something else. This is especially true of marriage and parenthood. When my wife and I married we discussed this issue and she chose to stay home. She gave up her corporate identity and chose what she belived to be a more important identity. We both believe that this has been beneficial to our children for many reasons.
As a husband and father I also have changed my identity. I no longer can justify playing on the company softball team, going on twenty mile bicyle rides two or three evenings a week. I specifically limit my career at work to spend more time with my family. I don't go to bars with friends anymore and my most recent weekend outing was cabin camping with my son's Cub Scout Pack in a blizzard.
I know my wife is frustrated at times by this identity she chose and as the kids have grown she is looking to change again. Maybe the big difference for her is that she at least had a say in the initial decision and certainly has a say now. But both of us are still limited by our commitment to each otherand our children, but the benefits of that commitment out weigh those limitations.
Maybe one solution to your friends problem is to embrace the SAHM part to offset the other issues induced by TWI. Possibly this would allow her to hold onto something meaningful while she waits and works on the other issues.
... an old school buddy of hers who told her that she was not the same person they went to college with. The buddy told her that she seemed more self-conscious, sad, paranoid and without self-esteem. All this from someone who was once a very dear friend.
Hmm... "a very dear friend" who cares enough about her friend to tell her "you've changed, and not for the better." THAT is agapeo love. Seriously, it is.
Belle, you know I love you right?
Please "fasten your seat belt and make sure your table tray is up & your seat is in the upright and locked position."
Let me start with this: "Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church, and GAVE HIMSELF (in one of the most hideously torturous deaths ever recorded) for it." Why isn't your alarm going off!??
I don't see the result of Christ's love for us leaving us "self-conscious, sad, paranoid and without self-esteem."
quote:
...she knew she wasn't happy with things the way they are but never realized how much her personality had changed. She lamented the fact that she is expected to be a stay at home mom and devote 100% of her time and focus to her husband and children. There's no time allowed between family and TWIt stuff for "Me" time.
Your innie friend is brainwashed. No if's ands or but's about it.
quote:
This friend would like to get out of TWI, but she wants to keep her marriage in tact.
The "marriage" your friend wants to keep intact is a textbook example of abuse. If you want me to itemize the abuse, I will, gladly. For now suffice it to say that if your friend were to take her Children and show up at a center for abused women they would take her in in an instant. Thye would surround her with resources, counseling, etc. all that she needs to get her brain thinking rationally again.
She is NOT thinking rationally now. And to a certain degree Bell, my friend, niether are you.
I'm not mad at you, please don't think that I am. Nor am I mad at your friend.
I'm a veteran of TWO divorces, each of the worst kind. I'm NOT an advocate of divorce, but I AM a strong advocate of freeing woman from abusive spousal relationships. I was also abused in my last marriage; as wierd as it may seem, I was on the receiving end of spousal abuse.
BUT, we're not talking about me right now. I will say this much though. One thing that helped me through my first divorce when I was fighting for the marriage was this:
I realized that IF the divorce had to happen, there was NOTHING stopping us from getting back together later after the smoke clears. It does happen, you know.
Moving forward. The fear about the TWI dogs coming after her is straight up criminal intimidation.
quote:
She can't come to my house because we're not supposed to be talking and she won't use her home computer .
Those things in bold are CRIMINAL. Not just bad or UGLY, they are criminal, actual prosecutable offenses and are part of text book abuse under the category of the abuser ISOLATING the abused from any and all who would help her.
Mental abuse is considered WORSE than physical.
I'm sorry but I can't share any hope that your friend stay in an abusive relationship. At BEST, HE is brainwashed too! If she up and disappeared, WITH the children, MAYBE that would shock hubby enough to snap him back in the direction of sanity.
quote:
he family doesn't have much money because of living on one income (and giving a huge portion of that to TWI).
Yup THAT's sanity at its best - - truly the American dream.
You MUST see this situation as life & death, the lives of those precious CHILDREN are in jeopardy. Legal authorities might step in an take them from BOTH of them. AS far fetched as that may sound, or as far down the road as it may be; the reality is that it is a possibility - given the situation as you've related it.
No, I'm not on a rant. I'm not exaggerating. If you see this as "innocent," just TWI - bullcrap - - no blood no foul, then maybe you're brainwashed too.
I'm a veteran of divorce, unfortunately. Kids survive divorces; ultimately children need stability and they can adapt. If handled properly the damage to children from divorce can be isolated, minimized and they can develop into well-adjusted, contributing members of society. You can ask my 18 yr old, National Merit Scholar, #1 in her Class, valedictorian, Yale University Class of 2009, daughter. She was four when I divorced, survived it and survived my second divorce and turned out OK.
For the record, I married two women who strayed, were abusive, then tried to "take me for everything I had" in the divorce.
I do know what I'm talking about.
So what could she do? I understand that she doesn't want to divorce her husband, she obviously sees whatever qulities hubby has.
#1. She must understand that her vow to "submit" starts with submitting to GOD, who gives her the right to DEMAND that her husband do his part in the relationship to provide her with what SHE feels is "happiness." There is NOTHING in the biblical "wives submit to your husbands" that includes the abuse of "You can't talk to your FRIEND Belle."
#2. IF she wanted, she could open the phone book & call legal aid and get an attorney appointed to her at NO CHARGE.
#3. She could get said FREE attorney to approach the local court and get an "Emergency Ex-Parte order" giving her temporary custody of the children. This would stop the TWI dogs from using her children as a wedge to get her back in the fold.
#4. Then she could move the court to get child support from hubby to help pay for her new house or apartment.
#5. I'm sure she has some skills and education, she should write her resume and post it on a job search website(s). While she's praying she could pray for a job. A great job, God could bless her with a fantastic job.
#6. Reestablish her support system and expand it. I think there are at least two people more than willing to sign on; Bell and the friend from college to start.
#7. ALL divorce actions don't need to end in divorce, just as all criminal prosecutions don't end in incarceration. She should write up all of the stuff you've mentioned here and the rest of what she lives on a daily basis.
The divorce action can certainly be used as a hammer & chisle to pry his head out of RR& Co's butts. Divorce actions can include investigations that bring to light the need for professional counseling for the entire family. The counseling could be used to fix the whole family. The divorce would be denied on the basis that Hubby & Wife decided to live happily ever after.
The sun falls, family rides off into the sunset, the credits begin to roll, end of story. Happy music plays.
I see the current situation as detremental to the development of the children. What are they learning while their family struggles after Daddy & Mom give Rosalie THEIR hard earned money so she can use it to hire a bull-dike pool cleaner to clean her pool. AND pay LCM the money you KNOW they agreed to give him to step down as president.
She has already determined that LEAVING TWI is the thing to do. She OWES it to herself and her CHILDREN to LEAVE - - NOW, as soon as possible. IF hubby is redemable he'll see the light when the court agent serves him with his "bill of divorcement.
What better way for her to say, "I'm serious about this 'leaving thing' honey...." Fortunately she has "right" on her side. I didn't WANT to divorce. I wanted to save my marriage too. I gave literally EVERYTHING I had to save the marriage. Eventually it became clear to me that SHE wasn't ever gonna be the wife, I deserved, OR the mother her children deserved.
My kids' Mom made it a fight, so I fought with all I had for my children's sake. I won't lie & tell you that the process wasn't excruciating, it was & IS... excruciating at times.
God is BIGGER than all of this.
I will tell you, also, concerning my situation, I was forced to criminally prosecute my ex-wife, when she decided to hit me with her car & shatter part of a bone in my leg and tear three of the four ligaments in my knee. My 7 & 5 year old sons witnessed it. I'm currently in my 4th month of twice-weekly physical therapy.
I have no desire that she go to jail. I have every desire that she get the help she needs to be able to not feel that it is OK to use a car to make a point. As the evidence was overwhelming, she pled guilty to assault and now I'm participating in her "pre-sentencing investigation" the court has ordered.
I was unable to get her into counseling while we were married. I too, stayed in the marriage for years doing "all the right things" to save it. Now the court will most likely ORDER her to at least GO to counseling. I pray she heeds whatever comes of this.
She made HER decision(s). It was incredibly difficult for me to realize that allowing and even participating in the natural consequences or her actions coming down on her IS the MOST loving thing I can do FOR her at this point.
You friend, Belle, iMo is in a very similar situation. She must wake up & stop shielding hubby from the consequences of his actions. He has NO right to do what he's doing to her. NONE.
I was a SAHD. I am again two times a week. It is a tough thing regardless of whether one is in TWI or not. I know it was tough for me. It is hard for SAHDs because not only do you change identities because your time is taken up by your kid(s) instead of a job, but it is still a very non-traditional role for men. Plus, unlike many moms I see at play and story hours, I don't have a network of SAHD friends.
I think once you have kids your role as a parent totally changes everything. Much more so than just going from boy/girl friend to husband/ wife. Both my wife and I realise this and feel its affects. Our first was unplanned and was a honeymoon baby so many of the things we thought we might be doing are not happening. Many other different exciting things are happening, but you still miss the stuff you enjoyed doing pre-kids. It is natural.
Now, also being an ex-wafer that spent more or less their whole life in der Vay, I know that once you wake up and realise this is not the life you want to lead, that there is a proccess and a time taking realization of who you are. I think most of the time you realise that you are still YOU! Just now you are free of BS leagalism. Free to choose who you want to be and where you want to go with your life. I think we have all gone thru this to an extent here.
It may be abuse to a varying degree with each person and relationship, but what do you expect from a cult.
The best thing i heard walker say was "God is bigger than all of this."
as someone who was a "stay at home mother" when my ex left me 10 years ago with 3 small children aged 2, 4, and 6... all i can say is God always has a backup plan... or maybe it was his first plan and i just didn't realize it. There is life after the way and there is life after divorce.. not that the road is always easy.. BUT God is bigger than all of this!
not only did i continue to remain a stay at home mom for 9 years as God covered all my expenses, bills, etc... BUT God also gave me a greater purpose in life and opened every door for me to fulfill it.. which i continue to do.
just because one is a SAHM doesn't mean God will forsake you if twi or a husband does. He is Jehovah-Jirah, my provider. and if i would tell all of my testimony here, i should have to write a book. all i can say is .. do not fear.
.. the Lord will provide... and if you want more details, feel free to contact me.
p.s. i didn't lose my identity, i gained a much greater identity.
I try to keep in mind that we only know one side of the story. Even though it appears obvious that her husband is the standard controlling TWIt, I've paid the price more times than I like by not getting all the facts.
With that, it appears that she is not happy at all and is approaching the point where she is going to need something to change to keep her sanity. I think reaching out to others, like Belle, is a good start. It helps you realize all is not well and things could be better.
The type of change she is looking for is pretty major and could end with the termination of her marriage. When faced with such decisions, it is always best to get as much information as you can and potential paths to take in order to make a more informed decision.
My recommendation would be to talk to professionals -- a divorce lawyer and a marriage counselor. Both offer free initial consultations and can be done during the day without her husband knowing if needed.
A marriage counselor could give her options on how to approach her husband in a way to help him see that they need outside help if they are going to be able to make the marriage work. Not having ever been to one, I can't speak much more on it.
A divorce lawyer will show her how that she, with children, is sitting in the driver's seat. In a way, it pains me to give this advice, having been on the husband end of it. But if this guy is the standard controlling TWIt who will not listen to reason, then he deserves it.
The only reason this guy is able to come home at night to a family is because she allows it. Any day she feels, she can go down to the court, file for divorce, and the court will issue an order forbidding him any access to the house. He will also be ordered to continue mortgage/rent payments on it until the divorce is finalized. When I first talked to my lawyers after my wife moved out and filed against me, they told me it was highly unusual for the wife to move out. They had never had such a case. They said normally, you would have had a cop hand you an order to stay away and I would have been sleeping on a friends couch that night and there was nothing I could have done about it.
The fact that she isn't working and is dependant on him doesn't really matter. A divorce lawyer will not require up-front money from her. They will look at the assets of the marriage and get their fee from that. In other words, the husband would be paying for her lawyer. If there are insufficient assets, a free lawyer can be found rather easily as others have noted. He will also be committed to giving a significant amount of his income in support payments, such that it will probably be a long time before he can ever give money to TWI again.
I'm not suggesting she run down and file for divorce tomorrow. I just think she should know the facts and not feel she is totally dependant on him without any recourse. Perhaps if he had the facts also, he would be more willing to work things out with her.
Now, also being an ex-wafer that spent more or less their whole life in der Vay, I know that once you wake up and realise this is not the life you want to lead, that there is a proccess and a time taking realization of who you are. I think most of the time you realise that you are still YOU! Just now you are free of BS leagalism. Free to choose who you want to be and where you want to go with your life. I think we have all gone thru this to an extent here.
Ahh Lindy your wisdom never ceases to amaze me. I have been reading this thread, trying to put myself in one situation and then another. I don't know that I think the crux of the situation is the SAHM part. During my twi tenure, I knew plenty of sahm that were NO WHERE near as way brained as their "working in the real world" --> sisters.
I am one woman that finally realized I was entombed by evilness...that the teachings, the theology, the legalization of life that was taught by twi, was wrong and was draining the life out of me. I have been out 5 years and have just now FINALLY REALIZED how entombed I was. I am just now figuring out how to go about really loosing those ties.
Everytime I look at this thread, I hear that REM song play in my head:
I don't know that I think the crux of the situation is the SAHM part.
I would have to agree with you Radar. Although there are probably many issues, TWI and the mindset they push is probably the biggest. It seems one is required to get away from it to realize the enslavement one has been in.
Your friend needs to take an honest look at whether she actually has a marriage to try and save. I don't mean what the way calls a marriage, I mean what she would want in a marriage when she gets out. It may be she's lost it already so all she has is a source of funds for raising her kids. No point in continuing to suffer for something that's already lost. Grieve and move on.
I think the analogy between her situation and that of John & Hope is not always helpful. I knew them in the corps, but haven't spoken to them since except here on the forum. But it seems obvious from their lifestyle that even while Hope was "waiting" for John to want to leave, he was not buying into the way bull$hit 100%. I have no idea what their emotional life, sex life, parenting life etc was like. But I have to believe there were signs there that gave Hope the hope she needed to wait. Or that she could endure the wait because of the positive things they did have.
I would encourage your friend to take these things into account when she decides how long she's going to wait before doing what she needs to do. If hubby's not coming along, the longer she waits the worse it will be for her emotionally, for her employability, and for the kids.
One other thought comes to mind after reading HCW's thread. The way is an abusive community. As it has gotten worse over the years, the healthier people have left. It's not too far out to guess that anyone who is still attracted to what the way has to offer has a rather hefty dose of their own mental and/or emotional trauma that causes them to be attracted to this place.
So what that means for your friend is twofold.
One she needs to "do her own work" psychologically and move toward making her recovery. Secondly, she should talk with a professional who can help her understand her husband's pathology. It's not a one-size-fits all thing and different types of people react in different ways. The more she understands about his type, the better prepared she'll be to deal with it.
Speaking as a sahm both in and out of twi, I can attest that it is very different while in twi.....it many times is a very unique type of hell.....
You have been molded through years of teaching to be this spineless opinionless drudge....your only purpose on this earth is to serve your husband and raise his children and keep his home......
Any attempt at an activity or to assert yourself is regarded darkly and suspiciously.
You try desperatly to be that virtuous women that we were taught to be.....obey the husband, keep your house to an insanely clean standard.....watch your heart break as your children are forced into the molds of little automatons....
The worse things get, the harder you pray/work the word/try to placate hubby.....deep inside you are sick, because it isn`t working....your life is hell, your children are miserable, your husband is forever angry....and this is a GOOD mariage....and somehow it is all your fault, because you KNOW that you are blowing it sprirtually somewhere or all of these spiritual truths and principles would work....they have too, because the alternative is unthinkable....ie you have spent your entire adult life believing something that was wrong....
Once the decision is made that you are hopelessly miserable, you STILL cannot leave....because without hubby`s blessing, God will not take care of you.....
It is awfull......you really DO believe that there is no way out.....
Out in the world you have support and understanding...in twi you have to hide your heartbreak or be regarded as unspiritual.
If your husband is abusive or alcoholic....you can`t tell, because that casts you BOTH in the spiritually unsavory group.
You are tormented, but you see no escape, because twi supposedly is the best that is out there, if you leave ...your children will get posessed or die.....
I was told that if I ever went against my husbands explicit instructions, that no matter how right I was or wrong he was...God wouldn`t bless me, as a matter of fact I was playing with my childrens lives.
I think that was the point I was trying to get accross, that she doesn't have to feel that way. Even though TWI and her husband have put her in this box, the reality is she doesn't have to remain there. Getting outside help would help her see this, either to fix the marriage or end it.
I want to share something intensly personal that might help your friend break through her self imposed prison.....because truly, it is only our beliefs that serve the bars of our prison.
We had been out of twi a few years, but still fiercly held on to every teaching....desperatly wanting to prove that we were not evil or posessed by npt following lcm`s demands....as long as we were still *doing the word* we`d felt that we were still ok...
Well I was trying to deal with my husbands escalating alcoholic behavior....as we had been taught....I spent years trying to be a good enough wife to make the husband happy...I didn`t understand alcoholism....
I knew that I was doing everything I had been taught, I was spending the first 30 min in the word andd praying every morning, completely submissive to every whim no matter how difficult or unreasonable....I tried desperatly to force the children to be good enough to make Daddy happy....it was sick.....
One day as I was tearfully praying yet again for what seemed the millionth time ...I was blubbering telling God that my husband was so awfull.....couldn`t he please *fix* him so that he wasn`t so mean....my children and I were so miserable.....and this is wierd....but all of a sudden, the other asundry noise in the room kindda faded out and the only thing I *heard* was a voice inside my head .....
the wife is the guardian of the home.....
I was so miserable...I just blubbered on....oh gee God...if hubby wasn`t sooooo mean....everything would be alright....and again the thought came.....
I made the wife the guardian of the home.....
well DAMN......it finally hit me what was happening.....and I said I know I know...still thinking it was all husbands fault because he is the *spiritual head* of our family and it had been do ingrained that I couldn`t go against what he said.....this time the *voice was deafening, not physically loud but really really firm....
Cathy....I made YOU the gardian of the home....
and I stopped dead.... I began to connect the dots....if I am the guardian of the home....that means I am to guard...to protect....against what?? ANYTHING that harms my family or dirupts the peace.....and then I paused....but God...it`s my hubby that is.....and then I knew...one of those jaw dropping mind blowing epiphanies....the husband was part of that *anything*.
Oh my Gosh, I have never been more terrified in my life than when I knew that I was going to have to stand up for myself, my children, and our family.
It was with trembeling knees I informed my husband that I now understood my responsibility before God was....
I told him that certain behaviors would no longer be acceptable and tolerated....and you know whiat??? this is the really wierd part.....Mark, my hubby didn`t have an argument.....he didn`t like it, but you know what? He recognized the truth, he realised there was something different in the woman standing peacefull in her confidence ... verses the cowering unsure wreck that I had been previously...he SAW that the spirit of God at work, because nothing else could change me as dramatically as that.
I had the quiet peace that was needed when I went against his will for the first time, when I told him that he would moderate his drinking or lose his family....that I realised that the children were suffering.
It was never easy, every way brain trick in the book was used, every trick in the alcoholics arsenal came into play through the next few years....but what was different was me.
I knew what God required of me...and suddenly I wasn`t afraid anymore.
Guess what? For the first time in our married life, my husband began to have some respect.....he even admitted after a while that it was MUCH better having a partner and no longer being *responsible* for the whole spiritual burden of the family.
Now you may want to tag me as nuts or whatever...but there is no denying the change in the person I was....(my hubby still jokingly bemoans his lost Godhood status)
There is no denying that our problems in our marriage had been insurmountable while being the woman I was....
I wish that you could print this out and give it to your friend....this was the key that finally opened the doors of my self imposed prison....I finally knew what it was that was required of me and though the prospect of going against the beliefs I had held my entire life was upsetting...ie spouse head of household...(though any daunting task, such as leaving twi can be substituited here)
I had the strength and peace to bravely face down the worst that was thrown at me.
That was probably 5 years ago, and it is an ongoing battle, but the family has healed....even if it hadn`t worked out, if husband had chosen alcohol, like your friends husband might chose twi.....It would have been ok....because I knew that I was finally fullfilling my responsibility as the guardian of the home, mother to my children, and finally and very importantly a wife worthey of my husbands admiration and respect.
Though my problem was alcoholism, the principle is the samae for dealing with twi or anything else that destroys the peace of your household....
If your friend could just see, how vital she is....what her responsibility as a mother is....it would make the decisions and actions necessary goals that are acomplishable.
She would no longer be paralysed by the fear of making God angry when she makes the necessary decisions.....she could procede confidence, with the peace of God ruling in her heart whether the choice is leave twi/stay/remain married/divorced...whatever tough choices are to be made...she will not have to be afraid.
Amen. I wish more women saw this in themselves. Thankfully, you kept your family together but only if it could become whole again. What an amazing lesson for your children!
Guess this thread struck a chord (can anybody tell? .... lol) I could have summed up everything that I wanted to say with....
She doesn`t need to be paralysed by fear. She can be confident that she will have the strength and peace that she needs to make the really difficult choices....that God will not forsake her.
My above account, though it happened many years after our departure from twi, was my first step outside the doors of my prison....though I was physically free from the entanglements of twi, I was still as tightly shackled mentally as ever.
This was my first hesitant step outside of the doors of my cell.....once out, breathing the fresh clean air, tasting the exhilleration of freedom, I have never looked back...not even for a moment.
This is why I come here. I remember so well getting sage advice from y'all and sometimes hearing things that are hard to hear and having to think about things and points of view that I would have preferred to remain ignorant about. ;)--> I could never even begin to express my thanks and tell each one of you how much you helped me hold onto my sanity while I was going through sheer he11 the past five years. I owe y'all so much!
I wished that my ex and I had the same connection that Hope & John did, but they obviously have the ability to share with each other on a much deeper level than my ex and I did. I think that's the key there. I read on here many times that if I couldn't share my heart, feelings, frustrations, anger, fear... with my ex then what kind of marriage did we really have? Something I didn't want to face, but once I did it was very freeing and relieved so much pressure.
I don't know what my friend needs to hear. I have no doubt that she's hearing it from y'all, though. :)--> I have shared what I read yesterday with her and she said to thank you all for your prayers.
It's great to hear how she isn't as trapped as she might think and thank you for sharing your stories in that aspect. (Thanks, Bob, for helping "the other side" ;)--> That's very kind of you.)
((((((((RASCAL)))))))) Once again, you share your heart with us and it's so healing to read. You are truly a remarkable woman, but I knew that the first time I talked to you in the chat room eons ago. :D--> Thank you so much!
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Steve!
What she needs is a lot of prayer, and she needs to pray a lot.
I applaud her for her desire to keep her marriage together, and her willingness to keep up appearances until such time as they are both out.
I think that John "igotout" Richeson and his wife Hope are the examples that your friend should follow. Hope waited for 5 years for John to reach the conclusion that they should leave TWItland. I think that Hope would have a lot of good advice for your friend on how to cope, how to gently nudge in the right direction, etc.
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JustThinking
Belle,
Until the day comes when they do leave, she could try looking for outside activities that could be sold as beneficial to her husband or family. Taking a class on calligraphy (great for those cards, you know, etc.), for example. I realize this isn't much but it beats staring at four walls all day. You know her and her situation better. Perhaps there is something along these lines? Just a suggestion.
JT
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dmiller
Steve! -- I agree. Belle -- tell your friend she's got prayers from me. God can find a way out, where there seemingly is none.
David
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Belle
Thanks, y'all! More viewpoints, suggestions and prayers are definitely what she needs. I may tell her about this thread and see if she'll come on here. She's too scared to, but maybe if she goes to the library..... She can't come to my house because we're not supposed to be talking and she won't use her home computer.
Steve, it's good to be reminded of Hope & John's story. That's what I clung to for the 5 years I fought for my marriage. Hopefully this one will end up like theirs and not like mine.
:)-->
JT, I think that's a great idea! Self-help in the practical sense. If nothing else, it gives her another skill, something to be proud of and time to think about something other than her marriage and TWI.
dmiller, you have one of the kindest hearts of anyone I know. Thank you! And I will tell her you said so.
;)-->
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Bramble
I was SAHM during my TWI years. I liked it--I could plan my own schedule, etc. I got out of the house alot, and my hubby and I didn't really do the 2by2 thing or the one week in advance schedule, just between us, though we faked it for the HFC. We lived way across town from our HFC's who would have been the only ones to notice.
I wanted to leave TWI a few years before hubby did, and like your friend I did not want a TWI sponsored divorce. That, plus the lack of money did make things really stressful.
The library was actually something that kept me sane! I could take the kids to storytime, so legit, plus no one else in the entire two branches in the city went to the main library down town for storytime. I could check out any 'forbidden' thing I liked and read them during the day, or when Hubby was gone to fellowship until 10pm. It was a small thing, but it sure helped--plus it was free!
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vickles
Ok, I have to ask....what does SAHMs stand for?
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justloafing
This maybe a thread killer.
Don't blame twi for this. It is the mindset of the husband and she is bowing to it.
Before they got married she could do this stuff, call mom,girlfriends or go out.The husband caught her hook line and sinker. That was not her fault (maybe?) The husband knew exactly what he wanted. He found the perfect girl that listened to him. It was "Looooove" all sweet and luvy duvy.
Once the hitch(marriage) was made he had her from that point. Now twi likes to teach this sort of crap. He just let her do what she wanted to do. Probably never said things would change after they were married. Probably just the oppisite (" oh baby I love you for what you are and do") When those rings were slid on the fingers, that's when things changed in his mind.
I know she has a child but what is she willing to do? If she wants things to change. She has to be able to step out on her own and say "look here "mofo" if things don't change, I am outta here" This is just everyday life whether you are in or out of twi. She may have one step further to go than the rest of the world. Does she want to leave twi for her sanity. That is another if not the biggest step for her.
I hope and pray what ever direction she turns, it is for her well being. She need to get out of one or both. Most defintly out of twi.
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Bramble
SAHM--stay at home mom
I agree that she will have to take action for herself. Hopefully her husband isn't the type to set the ministry dogs on her by tattling on her. That's something my husband never, ever did.
I did have a tentative plan made for a quick exit, if things went south. Sometime's things seemed so out of my control, back then. My husband always acted like he loved me, but we had been surprised by more than one weird divorce in our area. And I knew what our HFC thought of me.
My parent would have given me money if I needed it. Plus during one of my trips(just kids and I) home, I got in contact with an old employer and friend, who would be able to employ me and help house me and kids temporarily, if it ever came to that. My plan was to go visit my parents and disapear out into the far boonies(Eastern Montana), where my friend ranched and had a bar in a small town. Not much of a plan, but there it is.
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Franko
Not every having been in "The Way" I cannot speak to the specifics of this woman's case but I was concerned about the linking of losing ones indentity with being a SAHM.
Any time you are involved in a relationship you necessarily give up something else. This is especially true of marriage and parenthood. When my wife and I married we discussed this issue and she chose to stay home. She gave up her corporate identity and chose what she belived to be a more important identity. We both believe that this has been beneficial to our children for many reasons.
As a husband and father I also have changed my identity. I no longer can justify playing on the company softball team, going on twenty mile bicyle rides two or three evenings a week. I specifically limit my career at work to spend more time with my family. I don't go to bars with friends anymore and my most recent weekend outing was cabin camping with my son's Cub Scout Pack in a blizzard.
I know my wife is frustrated at times by this identity she chose and as the kids have grown she is looking to change again. Maybe the big difference for her is that she at least had a say in the initial decision and certainly has a say now. But both of us are still limited by our commitment to each otherand our children, but the benefits of that commitment out weigh those limitations.
Maybe one solution to your friends problem is to embrace the SAHM part to offset the other issues induced by TWI. Possibly this would allow her to hold onto something meaningful while she waits and works on the other issues.
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outintexas
Vickles.. I figured it out...
Stay At Home Mom
I listen to Dr. Laura.
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HCW
Hmm... "a very dear friend" who cares enough about her friend to tell her "you've changed, and not for the better." THAT is agapeo love. Seriously, it is.
Belle, you know I love you right?
Please "fasten your seat belt and make sure your table tray is up & your seat is in the upright and locked position."
Let me start with this: "Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church, and GAVE HIMSELF (in one of the most hideously torturous deaths ever recorded) for it." Why isn't your alarm going off!??
I don't see the result of Christ's love for us leaving us "self-conscious, sad, paranoid and without self-esteem."
Your innie friend is brainwashed. No if's ands or but's about it.
The "marriage" your friend wants to keep intact is a textbook example of abuse. If you want me to itemize the abuse, I will, gladly. For now suffice it to say that if your friend were to take her Children and show up at a center for abused women they would take her in in an instant. Thye would surround her with resources, counseling, etc. all that she needs to get her brain thinking rationally again.
She is NOT thinking rationally now. And to a certain degree Bell, my friend, niether are you.
I'm not mad at you, please don't think that I am. Nor am I mad at your friend.
I'm a veteran of TWO divorces, each of the worst kind. I'm NOT an advocate of divorce, but I AM a strong advocate of freeing woman from abusive spousal relationships. I was also abused in my last marriage; as wierd as it may seem, I was on the receiving end of spousal abuse.
BUT, we're not talking about me right now. I will say this much though. One thing that helped me through my first divorce when I was fighting for the marriage was this:
I realized that IF the divorce had to happen, there was NOTHING stopping us from getting back together later after the smoke clears. It does happen, you know.
Moving forward. The fear about the TWI dogs coming after her is straight up criminal intimidation.
Those things in bold are CRIMINAL. Not just bad or UGLY, they are criminal, actual prosecutable offenses and are part of text book abuse under the category of the abuser ISOLATING the abused from any and all who would help her.
Mental abuse is considered WORSE than physical.
I'm sorry but I can't share any hope that your friend stay in an abusive relationship. At BEST, HE is brainwashed too! If she up and disappeared, WITH the children, MAYBE that would shock hubby enough to snap him back in the direction of sanity.
Yup THAT's sanity at its best - - truly the American dream.You MUST see this situation as life & death, the lives of those precious CHILDREN are in jeopardy. Legal authorities might step in an take them from BOTH of them. AS far fetched as that may sound, or as far down the road as it may be; the reality is that it is a possibility - given the situation as you've related it.
No, I'm not on a rant. I'm not exaggerating. If you see this as "innocent," just TWI - bullcrap - - no blood no foul, then maybe you're brainwashed too.
I'm a veteran of divorce, unfortunately. Kids survive divorces; ultimately children need stability and they can adapt. If handled properly the damage to children from divorce can be isolated, minimized and they can develop into well-adjusted, contributing members of society. You can ask my 18 yr old, National Merit Scholar, #1 in her Class, valedictorian, Yale University Class of 2009, daughter. She was four when I divorced, survived it and survived my second divorce and turned out OK.
For the record, I married two women who strayed, were abusive, then tried to "take me for everything I had" in the divorce.
I do know what I'm talking about.
So what could she do? I understand that she doesn't want to divorce her husband, she obviously sees whatever qulities hubby has.
#1. She must understand that her vow to "submit" starts with submitting to GOD, who gives her the right to DEMAND that her husband do his part in the relationship to provide her with what SHE feels is "happiness." There is NOTHING in the biblical "wives submit to your husbands" that includes the abuse of "You can't talk to your FRIEND Belle."
#2. IF she wanted, she could open the phone book & call legal aid and get an attorney appointed to her at NO CHARGE.
#3. She could get said FREE attorney to approach the local court and get an "Emergency Ex-Parte order" giving her temporary custody of the children. This would stop the TWI dogs from using her children as a wedge to get her back in the fold.
#4. Then she could move the court to get child support from hubby to help pay for her new house or apartment.
#5. I'm sure she has some skills and education, she should write her resume and post it on a job search website(s). While she's praying she could pray for a job. A great job, God could bless her with a fantastic job.
#6. Reestablish her support system and expand it. I think there are at least two people more than willing to sign on; Bell and the friend from college to start.
#7. ALL divorce actions don't need to end in divorce, just as all criminal prosecutions don't end in incarceration. She should write up all of the stuff you've mentioned here and the rest of what she lives on a daily basis.
The divorce action can certainly be used as a hammer & chisle to pry his head out of RR& Co's butts. Divorce actions can include investigations that bring to light the need for professional counseling for the entire family. The counseling could be used to fix the whole family. The divorce would be denied on the basis that Hubby & Wife decided to live happily ever after.
The sun falls, family rides off into the sunset, the credits begin to roll, end of story. Happy music plays.
I see the current situation as detremental to the development of the children. What are they learning while their family struggles after Daddy & Mom give Rosalie THEIR hard earned money so she can use it to hire a bull-dike pool cleaner to clean her pool. AND pay LCM the money you KNOW they agreed to give him to step down as president.
She has already determined that LEAVING TWI is the thing to do. She OWES it to herself and her CHILDREN to LEAVE - - NOW, as soon as possible. IF hubby is redemable he'll see the light when the court agent serves him with his "bill of divorcement.
What better way for her to say, "I'm serious about this 'leaving thing' honey...." Fortunately she has "right" on her side. I didn't WANT to divorce. I wanted to save my marriage too. I gave literally EVERYTHING I had to save the marriage. Eventually it became clear to me that SHE wasn't ever gonna be the wife, I deserved, OR the mother her children deserved.
My kids' Mom made it a fight, so I fought with all I had for my children's sake. I won't lie & tell you that the process wasn't excruciating, it was & IS... excruciating at times.
God is BIGGER than all of this.
I will tell you, also, concerning my situation, I was forced to criminally prosecute my ex-wife, when she decided to hit me with her car & shatter part of a bone in my leg and tear three of the four ligaments in my knee. My 7 & 5 year old sons witnessed it. I'm currently in my 4th month of twice-weekly physical therapy.
I have no desire that she go to jail. I have every desire that she get the help she needs to be able to not feel that it is OK to use a car to make a point. As the evidence was overwhelming, she pled guilty to assault and now I'm participating in her "pre-sentencing investigation" the court has ordered.
I was unable to get her into counseling while we were married. I too, stayed in the marriage for years doing "all the right things" to save it. Now the court will most likely ORDER her to at least GO to counseling. I pray she heeds whatever comes of this.
She made HER decision(s). It was incredibly difficult for me to realize that allowing and even participating in the natural consequences or her actions coming down on her IS the MOST loving thing I can do FOR her at this point.
You friend, Belle, iMo is in a very similar situation. She must wake up & stop shielding hubby from the consequences of his actions. He has NO right to do what he's doing to her. NONE.
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lindyhopper
I won't go that far.
I was a SAHD. I am again two times a week. It is a tough thing regardless of whether one is in TWI or not. I know it was tough for me. It is hard for SAHDs because not only do you change identities because your time is taken up by your kid(s) instead of a job, but it is still a very non-traditional role for men. Plus, unlike many moms I see at play and story hours, I don't have a network of SAHD friends.
I think once you have kids your role as a parent totally changes everything. Much more so than just going from boy/girl friend to husband/ wife. Both my wife and I realise this and feel its affects. Our first was unplanned and was a honeymoon baby so many of the things we thought we might be doing are not happening. Many other different exciting things are happening, but you still miss the stuff you enjoyed doing pre-kids. It is natural.
Now, also being an ex-wafer that spent more or less their whole life in der Vay, I know that once you wake up and realise this is not the life you want to lead, that there is a proccess and a time taking realization of who you are. I think most of the time you realise that you are still YOU! Just now you are free of BS leagalism. Free to choose who you want to be and where you want to go with your life. I think we have all gone thru this to an extent here.
It may be abuse to a varying degree with each person and relationship, but what do you expect from a cult.
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jen-o
The best thing i heard walker say was "God is bigger than all of this."
as someone who was a "stay at home mother" when my ex left me 10 years ago with 3 small children aged 2, 4, and 6... all i can say is God always has a backup plan... or maybe it was his first plan and i just didn't realize it. There is life after the way and there is life after divorce.. not that the road is always easy.. BUT God is bigger than all of this!
not only did i continue to remain a stay at home mom for 9 years as God covered all my expenses, bills, etc... BUT God also gave me a greater purpose in life and opened every door for me to fulfill it.. which i continue to do.
just because one is a SAHM doesn't mean God will forsake you if twi or a husband does. He is Jehovah-Jirah, my provider. and if i would tell all of my testimony here, i should have to write a book. all i can say is .. do not fear.
.. the Lord will provide... and if you want more details, feel free to contact me.
p.s. i didn't lose my identity, i gained a much greater identity.
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Bob
I think Belle struck a nerve with HCW.
:)-->
I try to keep in mind that we only know one side of the story. Even though it appears obvious that her husband is the standard controlling TWIt, I've paid the price more times than I like by not getting all the facts.
With that, it appears that she is not happy at all and is approaching the point where she is going to need something to change to keep her sanity. I think reaching out to others, like Belle, is a good start. It helps you realize all is not well and things could be better.
The type of change she is looking for is pretty major and could end with the termination of her marriage. When faced with such decisions, it is always best to get as much information as you can and potential paths to take in order to make a more informed decision.
My recommendation would be to talk to professionals -- a divorce lawyer and a marriage counselor. Both offer free initial consultations and can be done during the day without her husband knowing if needed.
A marriage counselor could give her options on how to approach her husband in a way to help him see that they need outside help if they are going to be able to make the marriage work. Not having ever been to one, I can't speak much more on it.
A divorce lawyer will show her how that she, with children, is sitting in the driver's seat. In a way, it pains me to give this advice, having been on the husband end of it. But if this guy is the standard controlling TWIt who will not listen to reason, then he deserves it.
The only reason this guy is able to come home at night to a family is because she allows it. Any day she feels, she can go down to the court, file for divorce, and the court will issue an order forbidding him any access to the house. He will also be ordered to continue mortgage/rent payments on it until the divorce is finalized. When I first talked to my lawyers after my wife moved out and filed against me, they told me it was highly unusual for the wife to move out. They had never had such a case. They said normally, you would have had a cop hand you an order to stay away and I would have been sleeping on a friends couch that night and there was nothing I could have done about it.
The fact that she isn't working and is dependant on him doesn't really matter. A divorce lawyer will not require up-front money from her. They will look at the assets of the marriage and get their fee from that. In other words, the husband would be paying for her lawyer. If there are insufficient assets, a free lawyer can be found rather easily as others have noted. He will also be committed to giving a significant amount of his income in support payments, such that it will probably be a long time before he can ever give money to TWI again.
I'm not suggesting she run down and file for divorce tomorrow. I just think she should know the facts and not feel she is totally dependant on him without any recourse. Perhaps if he had the facts also, he would be more willing to work things out with her.
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Radar OReilly
Ahh Lindy your wisdom never ceases to amaze me. I have been reading this thread, trying to put myself in one situation and then another. I don't know that I think the crux of the situation is the SAHM part. During my twi tenure, I knew plenty of sahm that were NO WHERE near as way brained as their "working in the real world"
--> sisters.
I am one woman that finally realized I was entombed by evilness...that the teachings, the theology, the legalization of life that was taught by twi, was wrong and was draining the life out of me. I have been out 5 years and have just now FINALLY REALIZED how entombed I was. I am just now figuring out how to go about really loosing those ties.
Everytime I look at this thread, I hear that REM song play in my head:
"That's me in the corner....losing my religion"
Thanks everyone, this is very insightful.
Radar
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Bob
I would have to agree with you Radar. Although there are probably many issues, TWI and the mindset they push is probably the biggest. It seems one is required to get away from it to realize the enslavement one has been in.
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My3Cents
Belle,
Your friend needs to take an honest look at whether she actually has a marriage to try and save. I don't mean what the way calls a marriage, I mean what she would want in a marriage when she gets out. It may be she's lost it already so all she has is a source of funds for raising her kids. No point in continuing to suffer for something that's already lost. Grieve and move on.
I think the analogy between her situation and that of John & Hope is not always helpful. I knew them in the corps, but haven't spoken to them since except here on the forum. But it seems obvious from their lifestyle that even while Hope was "waiting" for John to want to leave, he was not buying into the way bull$hit 100%. I have no idea what their emotional life, sex life, parenting life etc was like. But I have to believe there were signs there that gave Hope the hope she needed to wait. Or that she could endure the wait because of the positive things they did have.
I would encourage your friend to take these things into account when she decides how long she's going to wait before doing what she needs to do. If hubby's not coming along, the longer she waits the worse it will be for her emotionally, for her employability, and for the kids.
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My3Cents
One other thought comes to mind after reading HCW's thread. The way is an abusive community. As it has gotten worse over the years, the healthier people have left. It's not too far out to guess that anyone who is still attracted to what the way has to offer has a rather hefty dose of their own mental and/or emotional trauma that causes them to be attracted to this place.
So what that means for your friend is twofold.
One she needs to "do her own work" psychologically and move toward making her recovery. Secondly, she should talk with a professional who can help her understand her husband's pathology. It's not a one-size-fits all thing and different types of people react in different ways. The more she understands about his type, the better prepared she'll be to deal with it.
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rascal
Speaking as a sahm both in and out of twi, I can attest that it is very different while in twi.....it many times is a very unique type of hell.....
You have been molded through years of teaching to be this spineless opinionless drudge....your only purpose on this earth is to serve your husband and raise his children and keep his home......
Any attempt at an activity or to assert yourself is regarded darkly and suspiciously.
You try desperatly to be that virtuous women that we were taught to be.....obey the husband, keep your house to an insanely clean standard.....watch your heart break as your children are forced into the molds of little automatons....
The worse things get, the harder you pray/work the word/try to placate hubby.....deep inside you are sick, because it isn`t working....your life is hell, your children are miserable, your husband is forever angry....and this is a GOOD mariage....and somehow it is all your fault, because you KNOW that you are blowing it sprirtually somewhere or all of these spiritual truths and principles would work....they have too, because the alternative is unthinkable....ie you have spent your entire adult life believing something that was wrong....
Once the decision is made that you are hopelessly miserable, you STILL cannot leave....because without hubby`s blessing, God will not take care of you.....
It is awfull......you really DO believe that there is no way out.....
Out in the world you have support and understanding...in twi you have to hide your heartbreak or be regarded as unspiritual.
If your husband is abusive or alcoholic....you can`t tell, because that casts you BOTH in the spiritually unsavory group.
You are tormented, but you see no escape, because twi supposedly is the best that is out there, if you leave ...your children will get posessed or die.....
I was told that if I ever went against my husbands explicit instructions, that no matter how right I was or wrong he was...God wouldn`t bless me, as a matter of fact I was playing with my childrens lives.
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Bob
Well put Rascal.
I think that was the point I was trying to get accross, that she doesn't have to feel that way. Even though TWI and her husband have put her in this box, the reality is she doesn't have to remain there. Getting outside help would help her see this, either to fix the marriage or end it.
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rascal
I want to share something intensly personal that might help your friend break through her self imposed prison.....because truly, it is only our beliefs that serve the bars of our prison.
We had been out of twi a few years, but still fiercly held on to every teaching....desperatly wanting to prove that we were not evil or posessed by npt following lcm`s demands....as long as we were still *doing the word* we`d felt that we were still ok...
Well I was trying to deal with my husbands escalating alcoholic behavior....as we had been taught....I spent years trying to be a good enough wife to make the husband happy...I didn`t understand alcoholism....
I knew that I was doing everything I had been taught, I was spending the first 30 min in the word andd praying every morning, completely submissive to every whim no matter how difficult or unreasonable....I tried desperatly to force the children to be good enough to make Daddy happy....it was sick.....
One day as I was tearfully praying yet again for what seemed the millionth time ...I was blubbering telling God that my husband was so awfull.....couldn`t he please *fix* him so that he wasn`t so mean....my children and I were so miserable.....and this is wierd....but all of a sudden, the other asundry noise in the room kindda faded out and the only thing I *heard* was a voice inside my head .....
the wife is the guardian of the home.....
I was so miserable...I just blubbered on....oh gee God...if hubby wasn`t sooooo mean....everything would be alright....and again the thought came.....
I made the wife the guardian of the home.....
well DAMN......it finally hit me what was happening.....and I said I know I know...still thinking it was all husbands fault because he is the *spiritual head* of our family and it had been do ingrained that I couldn`t go against what he said.....this time the *voice was deafening, not physically loud but really really firm....
Cathy....I made YOU the gardian of the home....
and I stopped dead.... I began to connect the dots....if I am the guardian of the home....that means I am to guard...to protect....against what?? ANYTHING that harms my family or dirupts the peace.....and then I paused....but God...it`s my hubby that is.....and then I knew...one of those jaw dropping mind blowing epiphanies....the husband was part of that *anything*.
Oh my Gosh, I have never been more terrified in my life than when I knew that I was going to have to stand up for myself, my children, and our family.
It was with trembeling knees I informed my husband that I now understood my responsibility before God was....
I told him that certain behaviors would no longer be acceptable and tolerated....and you know whiat??? this is the really wierd part.....Mark, my hubby didn`t have an argument.....he didn`t like it, but you know what? He recognized the truth, he realised there was something different in the woman standing peacefull in her confidence ... verses the cowering unsure wreck that I had been previously...he SAW that the spirit of God at work, because nothing else could change me as dramatically as that.
I had the quiet peace that was needed when I went against his will for the first time, when I told him that he would moderate his drinking or lose his family....that I realised that the children were suffering.
It was never easy, every way brain trick in the book was used, every trick in the alcoholics arsenal came into play through the next few years....but what was different was me.
I knew what God required of me...and suddenly I wasn`t afraid anymore.
Guess what? For the first time in our married life, my husband began to have some respect.....he even admitted after a while that it was MUCH better having a partner and no longer being *responsible* for the whole spiritual burden of the family.
Now you may want to tag me as nuts or whatever...but there is no denying the change in the person I was....(my hubby still jokingly bemoans his lost Godhood status)
There is no denying that our problems in our marriage had been insurmountable while being the woman I was....
I wish that you could print this out and give it to your friend....this was the key that finally opened the doors of my self imposed prison....I finally knew what it was that was required of me and though the prospect of going against the beliefs I had held my entire life was upsetting...ie spouse head of household...(though any daunting task, such as leaving twi can be substituited here)
I had the strength and peace to bravely face down the worst that was thrown at me.
That was probably 5 years ago, and it is an ongoing battle, but the family has healed....even if it hadn`t worked out, if husband had chosen alcohol, like your friends husband might chose twi.....It would have been ok....because I knew that I was finally fullfilling my responsibility as the guardian of the home, mother to my children, and finally and very importantly a wife worthey of my husbands admiration and respect.
Though my problem was alcoholism, the principle is the samae for dealing with twi or anything else that destroys the peace of your household....
If your friend could just see, how vital she is....what her responsibility as a mother is....it would make the decisions and actions necessary goals that are acomplishable.
She would no longer be paralysed by the fear of making God angry when she makes the necessary decisions.....she could procede confidence, with the peace of God ruling in her heart whether the choice is leave twi/stay/remain married/divorced...whatever tough choices are to be made...she will not have to be afraid.
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JustThinking
Rascal,
Amen. I wish more women saw this in themselves. Thankfully, you kept your family together but only if it could become whole again. What an amazing lesson for your children!
JT
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rascal
Guess this thread struck a chord (can anybody tell? .... lol) I could have summed up everything that I wanted to say with....
She doesn`t need to be paralysed by fear. She can be confident that she will have the strength and peace that she needs to make the really difficult choices....that God will not forsake her.
My above account, though it happened many years after our departure from twi, was my first step outside the doors of my prison....though I was physically free from the entanglements of twi, I was still as tightly shackled mentally as ever.
This was my first hesitant step outside of the doors of my cell.....once out, breathing the fresh clean air, tasting the exhilleration of freedom, I have never looked back...not even for a moment.
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Belle
Y'all are amazing! ABSOLUTELY AMAZING!!
This is why I come here. I remember so well getting sage advice from y'all and sometimes hearing things that are hard to hear and having to think about things and points of view that I would have preferred to remain ignorant about.
;)--> I could never even begin to express my thanks and tell each one of you how much you helped me hold onto my sanity while I was going through sheer he11 the past five years. I owe y'all so much!
I wished that my ex and I had the same connection that Hope & John did, but they obviously have the ability to share with each other on a much deeper level than my ex and I did. I think that's the key there. I read on here many times that if I couldn't share my heart, feelings, frustrations, anger, fear... with my ex then what kind of marriage did we really have? Something I didn't want to face, but once I did it was very freeing and relieved so much pressure.
I don't know what my friend needs to hear. I have no doubt that she's hearing it from y'all, though.
:)--> I have shared what I read yesterday with her and she said to thank you all for your prayers.
It's great to hear how she isn't as trapped as she might think and thank you for sharing your stories in that aspect. (Thanks, Bob, for helping "the other side"
;)--> That's very kind of you.)
((((((((RASCAL)))))))) Once again, you share your heart with us and it's so healing to read. You are truly a remarkable woman, but I knew that the first time I talked to you in the chat room eons ago.
:D--> Thank you so much!
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