"Common sense" was definitely in short supply in TWItland.
How many times did leader.... say "God gave you a brain and expects you to use it", and then they turned around and chided you for doing that very thing?
I don't have kids, but I remember one couple getting completely reamed for their 2 year old kid squirming at a fellowship meeting that had lasted over an hour and a half late into a week-night. Heck, I was trying not to squirm and it was way past MY bedtime.
Yes, the kids were expected to be little adults and it was pitiful. I would feel sorry when I had to be around the kids because they wanted so badly to please and to be loved and praised, but they weren't allowed to be kids and many were very confused about what was expected of them because at school they would see kids doing and saying thing they weren't allowed to and those kids were having so much more fun.
There are quite a few outspoken parents on here, so bringing this to the top will hopefully get some more responses to your thread. ;)-->
I was single and didn't have kids yet when I was in the Corps, and afterwards as a grad.
I was 7 mos pregnant when we left.
My whole point of view about kids changed after I became a mother.
Looking back on it, there were times I was impatient about kids and how they acted but I didn't have a clue because I'd never been a mother.
I do recall a twig I was in one night when a kid fell asleep and he got dragged out and yelled at. The corps person who did that didn't have kids either. She acted like she was the ultimate authority about children but had never had one.
I learned from experience that your whole point of view about children changes if you have even one.
I couldn't tell a 2-year-old from a 3-year-old from an 18-month-old, but once I'd had mine, I could tell a child's age with a lot more understanding, and with a knowledge of where they were at developmentally.
It is true that kids weren't allowed to be kids. I even remember another person saying just that, and I can't remember who it was who said it, but looking back on it, they had a lot of insight.
I remember being taught that kids shouldn't color or draw during fellowships because they should be "learning to sit and listen to the Word."
I thank God I got out before my daughter was born.
When I first left hq....I was a tc in Greensboro NC. I had 20 COUNT THEM 2O kids in my fellowship.
One family was "homeschooling" their kids. In reality....the oldest who was 14 was baby sitting the other 5, none of them was being properly educated. I laid down the my edict. It told them.......every child that can go to school.....needs to be enrolled or I am reporting you to North Carolina Children's Services.
Oh gosh.........everybody from the fellowship level to the trunk level was up in arms. I was so convinced that this was the only way to protect the kids. The oldest, now a UNC CHAPEL Hill graduate with 2 degrees......she knew I was correct.
I ....ed off everyone else...when i told one corps grad mom...that she was welcome ONLY at Sunday morning fellowship. She was used to dragging her two kids to fellowship 4 times a week. My question was "HOW THE HELL ARE THESE KIDS GETTING ENOUGH SLEEP AND DOING THEIR HOMEWORK......when they are at twig 3 nights a week.
I knew lots of Way Corps like me....willing to bite it......to do the right thing. I know lots of way corps that sacrificed the kids in their fellowships......for stats that were turned in every week.
We all have only this one life. If you were the drag the kids to twig kind.......I am sure God has worked on your heart and forgiven you. Whether or not HE has been that benevolent to some of the twi leadership that gave devilish advice.....I have no idea.
I'll never forget the sight when I first arrived at Rome City campus in 1979...everybody was walking around with a spoon in their hand...the kids seemed "dysfunctional" to me...and then after I got a load of Bob Moneyhand's dog and pony show, and the way he "set the pace" for the treatment of children...I wouldn't be surprised if most of those kids ended up in therapy somewhere.
One family was "homeschooling" their kids. In reality....the oldest who was 14 was baby sitting the other 5, none of them was being properly educated. I laid down the my edict. It told them.......every child that can go to school.....needs to be enrolled or I am reporting you to North Carolina Children's Services.
Oh gosh.........everybody from the fellowship level to the trunk level was up in arms. I was so convinced that this was the only way to protect the kids. The oldest, now a UNC CHAPEL Hill graduate with 2 degrees......she knew I was correct.
I ....ed off everyone else...when i told one corps grad mom...that she was welcome ONLY at Sunday morning fellowship. She was used to dragging her two kids to fellowship 4 times a week. My question was "HOW THE HELL ARE THESE KIDS GETTING ENOUGH SLEEP AND DOING THEIR HOMEWORK......when they are at twig 3 nights a week.
Correct or not Radar, you laid down an edict regarding how a parent was to raise their kids?
Everyone who interfered in other peoples' families thought they were correct too.
Not questioning your heart or intentions, just a system that encourages "leaders" to make decisions about children that don't belong to them and back them up with threats.
Keep in mind, Oakspear, that the system *encouraged* edicts.
If Radar had merely suggested to the one mom that perhaps she should only come to stick, er, twig fellowship on Sundays, that mom would more than likely have continued in her present practices.
Yup Steve!, that was my point. The system encouraged it. How late a child stays up, and the quality of their schooling is the parents' decision, not a twig leader's or anyone else's. The system encouraged leaders (and I was one for awhile) to meddle in the internal working and business of families.
We got our kids to fellowship 3 times a week! On Sunday hook-ups, I had to dress in my best, then sit in an upstairs bedroom listening on the other speaker. The things was that it was right over the meeting room so we had to be extremely quiet!
My 2 kids were under 4 at the time. We took them on Monday & Thursday night & they stayed up til almost 10 because we lived pretty far away.
I once asked if we could switch off & 1 come to fellowship & the other stay home during the night ones. They decided my kids would be far more blessed there then not. I think they just had too many empty seats & didn't want us to vacate any.
I do think they expected a little much but I am all for making kids behave & learning to sit still for 45 minutes. I used a spoon with a light touch after they were 2. I wouldn't ever (nor did anyone ever expect) beat my kids. The corp folk here had kids & I do think they understood most of the time.
Yup Steve!, that was my point. The system encouraged it. How late a child stays up, and the quality of their schooling is the parents' decision, not a twig leader's or anyone else's. The system encouraged leaders (and I was one for awhile) to meddle in the internal working and business of families.
Whoops! I reread your post and realized that it was absolutely NOT a criticism, NO NAMES but rather a jab at TWIt, although it seemed that way at first reading.
Gack, I remember a teaching called "Diamonds in the Rough", *shudder*!
I was the Children's Fellowship co-ordinator for Portland for a coupla years, and assisted with CF for the Limb for a year.
TWI had/has some pretty twisted ideas about raising kids. And some good ones, too - which is the hook, isn't it?
I have to say that I got a lot of great parenting advice from corps folks over the years. They even helped us figure out ways to make fellowship workable for younger kids. If anything, we took it past where we should have and have apologized to our kids. I'm very grateful in this area of life to the teaching we got.
To be fair, we got some really bad advice too but no more so than we would probably have had from anywhere else. I don't recall any of it (good or bad) being in the form of edicts though. The worst advice we got from a BC was stopped by our LC though and the BC was told to "get your head out of your a**." :D-->
Yeah....I was bossy and nosy and inserted myself into a private matter that I had no business being in.
That said.....I would do the same thing today that I did then in that homeschooling situation.
I can honestly say that in that particular situation....I was acting as a human being....a woman, someone that genuinely cared for that family and those children, NOT as a messenger for twi doctrine.
Same thing with the single mom with her two kids.....and limiting them to one fellowship a week. Even then, even though I was knee deep in twi doctrine, I was not afraid to follow my *gut.* I understand your point, and that point applies to many, many things I did while in twi.
TWI and kids......I still think it is one of the most complex things I ever experienced during my 28 years in that stupid cult.
As soon as I had kids--thats when I started having reservations about TWI. During the toddler years I hated going to fellowship as a family. And 'special' events were the worst--fellowship movies or dinners. The entire time--hours--your little ones would be under so much scrutiny, how they were dressed, how they ate, how they sat, manners, whether or not you applied the spoon...and all before they were even four years old. It was insane. I kept my kids away from the fellowship as much as possible.
I was glad when they got to be school aged--I could keep them home two out of three fellowships because there was no way to get them in bed at a decent time on fellowship night.
Thanks Radar Sometimes lazy people use the "home schooling" umbrella as an excuse to...I don't know what, but educatin' ain't going on. Without turning this into a discussion about home schooling, oftentimes TWI leaders had no idea what home schooling involved, frequently (at least in our area) expecting that home schooling should have the same hours, use the same books, and cover everything exactly the way the public schools did, and "correcting" us if it didn't. It usually didn't. No one ever told us not to home school, but leaders would involve themselves of aspects of my children's education that they had no business in and no knowledge of.
Okay, I'm done with that...thanks again for the clarification Radar.
Regarding children in meetings: I was fortunate in that my kids were always able to quietly entertain themselves. They'd bring a notebook like the adults did and drew pictures or whatever while the loooong teaching went on. So we never drew the ire of leadership for "unruly" kids. We were (for a while) expected to drag our kids to fellowship, even when it was past their bedtimes; sometimes they would lay down to sleep in another room. We thought it was a waste, but were pressured into doing it. Of course, once the "leaders" figured out that the kids should be home, then it became a good idea and my then-wife and I alternated staying home with the younger kids.
The one thing that drove my kids nuts, was being grilled after the teaching on what it was about, what "blessed" them, etc. (I'm talking about teens and older pre-teens). My two oldest sons still talk about that. Half the time the teaching was over their heads, or they were bored out of their minds.
being young and engaged I was in up to my neck w/ childrens fellowship- some things I saw I didn't realize until I had my own children how ab-so lute-ly nutty it was. Not always but I get the "oh jeez I shoulda coulda woulda done something" had I not been so young goofy and didn't get it. Yep Bramble, so very glad my little ones did come near the end of my fertile years-had I had them then, I would of been whacking them with the spoon- I read on here, someone mentioning their husband being quick on the draw w/ correction....
I'm sorry not tech-savvy enought to copy and paste the post...
If it gives you pause, then pause longer and think about it-the effect it's having on your kids you know, if you trust your instincts. One of the abusive relationship (not saying thats you but, just, if) red flags is that you have been convinced your judgement is flawed, you couldn't possibly be correct, your the one with the probelm...don't mean to derail this but caught what I thought was a whiff of another issue...
I love my children above all else on this planet, and am thankful I have the responsibility to care for them. OK- off the soap box now...
Andrea--our area quit doing children's fellowship. All my kids were too young (not 4) then when they got to 4, they quit doing them at branch meetings! Children's needs could be met in the teaching. Huh?
Weird for me--I had taught children's fellowships for years, but my own kids got 'homeschool' children's fellowship, because the branch felt the teachings were too important for a children's fellowship crew of 3 or 4 adults to miss.
Branch meetings were awful for moms with toddlers--they would have to be out in the hallways or wander around some lobby of a hotel, because they were always so long. But you couldn't stay home!
As far as using the wooden spoon--you used it(TWI2), or you weren't in the One True Household of God for long.When you were at a TWI thing, you carried it so everyone would know you had it handy--no hiding it in your bible case!
We went to a methodist church for awhile--by then my kids were school age. But I watched the moms of young kids--they'd go to this nursery room at the back of the church, with a big window. The little ones could play, or cry, whatever, without disturbing anyone.The moms and dads could hear the service...I envied them!
From 1993-96 children in the area where we lived were expected to attend home fellowships with the adults (childrens fellowship was a no-no, this was a FAMILY fellowship). They were expected to sit crosslegged on the floor near their parents, sing the songs, pay close attention to the teachings, and their eyes to were either gaze on their songbook, their Bible or the glorious visage of the teacher/leader. One little twitch and out they went to be beaten severely brought back in and plopped on the floor. This included all children without exception who could physically sit by themselves. (except the leaders' kids who were exempt for some reason) LISTEN!REMEMBER!OBEY! was the watchword of the day. I'm sure each of these children grew up to love God and want to hear more teachings. NOT!
Note to Radar - I LOVE you! You were absolutely right to confront those parents.
I remember one interminable "teaching" on a school night, on and on and on and my son had school in the morning as well as several (5-8 or so) other youngsters in the room. Finally at about 9:15 or so, the man of God sounded like he was winding down. Then he said, "Oh, and also go to verse such-and-such..." My son emitted the loudest, most frustrated sigh I have ever heard! Of course, no one laughed, but I guarantee - we ALL knew EXACTLy how he felt. :P-->
Looking back it seemed like parents were expected to have robotic children--ones who were to obey first time every time. I believe children should listen to their parents, but do you think twi went too far?
Not only went too far but went in the complete wrong direction.
When raising kids, the measure of success should not be obedience. But I guess that's what they wanted in the adults so they taught that it was the model for our relationship with god.
The aforementioned (by me) leadership liked to feed their children a Sunday morning treat of pie for breakfast, thus filling their little veins with tons of sugar. Naturally by 10:30 a.m. they were hyper as they could be. This was okay, though, because the mom liked to give her kids pie for breakfast on Sunday mornings. However, my kid would get the least little bit restless and we would both get yelled at.
Speaking of wooden spoons, in a perfect world there would be a lot of those spoon advocates walking around in a curiously humped posture because their respective wooden spoons had been placed where they rightfully belonged - where the sun don't shine!
I'm so glad I didn't have kids when I was TWI... I can't imagine the "challenge" my 3 year old would be to leadership now... We'd be getting those talks ("Krista, could you please meet me in the family room after fellowship? And please bring Kristopher. Thank you.").... LOL!
============================================
Let's talk about leadership's kids...
As with many things it seemed like leaderships' children had way more grace in situations than Joe-believer's kids did. It seemed like people felt sorry for them, in a way, because they were separated from their parents so much. On the other hand, I noted that a lot of the kids had a aire of entitlement about them - they expected to be treated different or better than the other kids.
Did anyone else notice this?
==================================
Another thing...
Many of you mentioned how there was no longer a children's fellowship - how it was considered a "family fellowship"....
In the early 90's LCM mandiated there would no longer be a Teen Stage or any of that at the ROA because teens were separating themselves off from their families and twigs for the week. He "suggested" (Way Math: Suggestion by MOG = Revelation = Just Do It!) that fellowships divided by age groups - i.e. children's fellowships - be elminated or reduced to just special meetings or whathaveyou...
There was an "incident" at the last ROA where some teens got into some serious trouble by... let's just say... "sharing a tent"... (I'll leave it at that...) I'm now wondering if that incident - and perhaps others that happened - could have been better avoided if the teens were provided with more age-appropriate activities, rather than becoming their own "activity director"...
When my kids were little I used to babysit corps kids for c-night, later c-morning. One thing I do remember about the kids I sat--their corps parents were not good friends or anything--was how solemn the kids were.
I remember a children's fellowship with one of these leader's kid--the kid was so anxious when we were finishing up. He kept suggesting that we sing a song or something(we were letting the kids play while others finished the craft).
Sit still, be quiet, and do nothing was a highly prized skill for young children in TWI.
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Jim
Way too far.
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Steve!
"Common sense" was definitely in short supply in TWItland.
How many times did leader.... say "God gave you a brain and expects you to use it", and then they turned around and chided you for doing that very thing?
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Belle
Smurfette, backatcha!
I don't have kids, but I remember one couple getting completely reamed for their 2 year old kid squirming at a fellowship meeting that had lasted over an hour and a half late into a week-night. Heck, I was trying not to squirm and it was way past MY bedtime.
Yes, the kids were expected to be little adults and it was pitiful. I would feel sorry when I had to be around the kids because they wanted so badly to please and to be loved and praised, but they weren't allowed to be kids and many were very confused about what was expected of them because at school they would see kids doing and saying thing they weren't allowed to and those kids were having so much more fun.
There are quite a few outspoken parents on here, so bringing this to the top will hopefully get some more responses to your thread.
;)-->
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outandabout
I was single and didn't have kids yet when I was in the Corps, and afterwards as a grad.
I was 7 mos pregnant when we left.
My whole point of view about kids changed after I became a mother.
Looking back on it, there were times I was impatient about kids and how they acted but I didn't have a clue because I'd never been a mother.
I do recall a twig I was in one night when a kid fell asleep and he got dragged out and yelled at. The corps person who did that didn't have kids either. She acted like she was the ultimate authority about children but had never had one.
I learned from experience that your whole point of view about children changes if you have even one.
I couldn't tell a 2-year-old from a 3-year-old from an 18-month-old, but once I'd had mine, I could tell a child's age with a lot more understanding, and with a knowledge of where they were at developmentally.
It is true that kids weren't allowed to be kids. I even remember another person saying just that, and I can't remember who it was who said it, but looking back on it, they had a lot of insight.
I remember being taught that kids shouldn't color or draw during fellowships because they should be "learning to sit and listen to the Word."
I thank God I got out before my daughter was born.
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Radar OReilly
GEEZE, this is a complex topic.
When I first left hq....I was a tc in Greensboro NC. I had 20 COUNT THEM 2O kids in my fellowship.
One family was "homeschooling" their kids. In reality....the oldest who was 14 was baby sitting the other 5, none of them was being properly educated. I laid down the my edict. It told them.......every child that can go to school.....needs to be enrolled or I am reporting you to North Carolina Children's Services.
Oh gosh.........everybody from the fellowship level to the trunk level was up in arms. I was so convinced that this was the only way to protect the kids. The oldest, now a UNC CHAPEL Hill graduate with 2 degrees......she knew I was correct.
I ....ed off everyone else...when i told one corps grad mom...that she was welcome ONLY at Sunday morning fellowship. She was used to dragging her two kids to fellowship 4 times a week. My question was "HOW THE HELL ARE THESE KIDS GETTING ENOUGH SLEEP AND DOING THEIR HOMEWORK......when they are at twig 3 nights a week.
I knew lots of Way Corps like me....willing to bite it......to do the right thing. I know lots of way corps that sacrificed the kids in their fellowships......for stats that were turned in every week.
We all have only this one life. If you were the drag the kids to twig kind.......I am sure God has worked on your heart and forgiven you. Whether or not HE has been that benevolent to some of the twi leadership that gave devilish advice.....I have no idea.
ror
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GrouchoMarxJr
I'll never forget the sight when I first arrived at Rome City campus in 1979...everybody was walking around with a spoon in their hand...the kids seemed "dysfunctional" to me...and then after I got a load of Bob Moneyhand's dog and pony show, and the way he "set the pace" for the treatment of children...I wouldn't be surprised if most of those kids ended up in therapy somewhere.
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WordWolf
You are the wind beneath my wings, Radar.
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Oakspear
Correct or not Radar, you laid down an edict regarding how a parent was to raise their kids?
Everyone who interfered in other peoples' families thought they were correct too.
Not questioning your heart or intentions, just a system that encourages "leaders" to make decisions about children that don't belong to them and back them up with threats.
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Steve!
Keep in mind, Oakspear, that the system *encouraged* edicts.
If Radar had merely suggested to the one mom that perhaps she should only come to stick, er, twig fellowship on Sundays, that mom would more than likely have continued in her present practices.
Same thing with the home school family, I'd bet.
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Oakspear
Yup Steve!, that was my point. The system encouraged it. How late a child stays up, and the quality of their schooling is the parents' decision, not a twig leader's or anyone else's. The system encouraged leaders (and I was one for awhile) to meddle in the internal working and business of families.
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LuckyGirl
We got our kids to fellowship 3 times a week! On Sunday hook-ups, I had to dress in my best, then sit in an upstairs bedroom listening on the other speaker. The things was that it was right over the meeting room so we had to be extremely quiet!
My 2 kids were under 4 at the time. We took them on Monday & Thursday night & they stayed up til almost 10 because we lived pretty far away.
I once asked if we could switch off & 1 come to fellowship & the other stay home during the night ones. They decided my kids would be far more blessed there then not. I think they just had too many empty seats & didn't want us to vacate any.
I do think they expected a little much but I am all for making kids behave & learning to sit still for 45 minutes. I used a spoon with a light touch after they were 2. I wouldn't ever (nor did anyone ever expect) beat my kids. The corp folk here had kids & I do think they understood most of the time.
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Steve!
Whoops! I reread your post and realized that it was absolutely NOT a criticism, NO NAMES but rather a jab at TWIt, although it seemed that way at first reading.
Gack, I remember a teaching called "Diamonds in the Rough", *shudder*!
I was the Children's Fellowship co-ordinator for Portland for a coupla years, and assisted with CF for the Limb for a year.
TWI had/has some pretty twisted ideas about raising kids. And some good ones, too - which is the hook, isn't it?
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JustThinking
I have to say that I got a lot of great parenting advice from corps folks over the years. They even helped us figure out ways to make fellowship workable for younger kids. If anything, we took it past where we should have and have apologized to our kids. I'm very grateful in this area of life to the teaching we got.
To be fair, we got some really bad advice too but no more so than we would probably have had from anywhere else. I don't recall any of it (good or bad) being in the form of edicts though. The worst advice we got from a BC was stopped by our LC though and the BC was told to "get your head out of your a**."
:D-->
JT
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Radar OReilly
Oak,
Yeah....I was bossy and nosy and inserted myself into a private matter that I had no business being in.
That said.....I would do the same thing today that I did then in that homeschooling situation.
I can honestly say that in that particular situation....I was acting as a human being....a woman, someone that genuinely cared for that family and those children, NOT as a messenger for twi doctrine.
Same thing with the single mom with her two kids.....and limiting them to one fellowship a week. Even then, even though I was knee deep in twi doctrine, I was not afraid to follow my *gut.* I understand your point, and that point applies to many, many things I did while in twi.
TWI and kids......I still think it is one of the most complex things I ever experienced during my 28 years in that stupid cult.
ror
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Bramble
As soon as I had kids--thats when I started having reservations about TWI. During the toddler years I hated going to fellowship as a family. And 'special' events were the worst--fellowship movies or dinners. The entire time--hours--your little ones would be under so much scrutiny, how they were dressed, how they ate, how they sat, manners, whether or not you applied the spoon...and all before they were even four years old. It was insane. I kept my kids away from the fellowship as much as possible.
I was glad when they got to be school aged--I could keep them home two out of three fellowships because there was no way to get them in bed at a decent time on fellowship night.
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Oakspear
Thanks Radar
Sometimes lazy people use the "home schooling" umbrella as an excuse to...I don't know what, but educatin' ain't going on. 
Without turning this into a discussion about home schooling, oftentimes TWI leaders had no idea what home schooling involved, frequently (at least in our area) expecting that home schooling should have the same hours, use the same books, and cover everything exactly the way the public schools did, and "correcting" us if it didn't. It usually didn't. No one ever told us not to home school, but leaders would involve themselves of aspects of my children's education that they had no business in and no knowledge of.
Okay, I'm done with that...thanks again for the clarification Radar.
Regarding children in meetings: I was fortunate in that my kids were always able to quietly entertain themselves. They'd bring a notebook like the adults did and drew pictures or whatever while the loooong teaching went on. So we never drew the ire of leadership for "unruly" kids. We were (for a while) expected to drag our kids to fellowship, even when it was past their bedtimes; sometimes they would lay down to sleep in another room. We thought it was a waste, but were pressured into doing it. Of course, once the "leaders" figured out that the kids should be home, then it became a good idea and my then-wife and I alternated staying home with the younger kids.
The one thing that drove my kids nuts, was being grilled after the teaching on what it was about, what "blessed" them, etc. (I'm talking about teens and older pre-teens). My two oldest sons still talk about that. Half the time the teaching was over their heads, or they were bored out of their minds.
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andreatheflorist
being young and engaged I was in up to my neck w/ childrens fellowship- some things I saw I didn't realize until I had my own children how ab-so lute-ly nutty it was. Not always but I get the "oh jeez I shoulda coulda woulda done something" had I not been so young goofy and didn't get it. Yep Bramble, so very glad my little ones did come near the end of my fertile years-had I had them then, I would of been whacking them with the spoon- I read on here, someone mentioning their husband being quick on the draw w/ correction....
I'm sorry not tech-savvy enought to copy and paste the post...
If it gives you pause, then pause longer and think about it-the effect it's having on your kids you know, if you trust your instincts. One of the abusive relationship (not saying thats you but, just, if) red flags is that you have been convinced your judgement is flawed, you couldn't possibly be correct, your the one with the probelm...don't mean to derail this but caught what I thought was a whiff of another issue...
I love my children above all else on this planet, and am thankful I have the responsibility to care for them. OK- off the soap box now...
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Bramble
Andrea--our area quit doing children's fellowship. All my kids were too young (not 4) then when they got to 4, they quit doing them at branch meetings! Children's needs could be met in the teaching. Huh?
Weird for me--I had taught children's fellowships for years, but my own kids got 'homeschool' children's fellowship, because the branch felt the teachings were too important for a children's fellowship crew of 3 or 4 adults to miss.
Branch meetings were awful for moms with toddlers--they would have to be out in the hallways or wander around some lobby of a hotel, because they were always so long. But you couldn't stay home!
As far as using the wooden spoon--you used it(TWI2), or you weren't in the One True Household of God for long.When you were at a TWI thing, you carried it so everyone would know you had it handy--no hiding it in your bible case!
We went to a methodist church for awhile--by then my kids were school age. But I watched the moms of young kids--they'd go to this nursery room at the back of the church, with a big window. The little ones could play, or cry, whatever, without disturbing anyone.The moms and dads could hear the service...I envied them!
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Watered Garden
From 1993-96 children in the area where we lived were expected to attend home fellowships with the adults (childrens fellowship was a no-no, this was a FAMILY fellowship). They were expected to sit crosslegged on the floor near their parents, sing the songs, pay close attention to the teachings, and their eyes to were either gaze on their songbook, their Bible or the glorious visage of the teacher/leader. One little twitch and out they went to be beaten severely brought back in and plopped on the floor. This included all children without exception who could physically sit by themselves. (except the leaders' kids who were exempt for some reason) LISTEN!REMEMBER!OBEY! was the watchword of the day. I'm sure each of these children grew up to love God and want to hear more teachings. NOT!
Note to Radar - I LOVE you! You were absolutely right to confront those parents.
I remember one interminable "teaching" on a school night, on and on and on and my son had school in the morning as well as several (5-8 or so) other youngsters in the room. Finally at about 9:15 or so, the man of God sounded like he was winding down. Then he said, "Oh, and also go to verse such-and-such..." My son emitted the loudest, most frustrated sigh I have ever heard! Of course, no one laughed, but I guarantee - we ALL knew EXACTLy how he felt.
:P-->
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My3Cents
Not only went too far but went in the complete wrong direction.
When raising kids, the measure of success should not be obedience. But I guess that's what they wanted in the adults so they taught that it was the model for our relationship with god.
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outandabout
GRRRRRRR....
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Watered Garden
The aforementioned (by me) leadership liked to feed their children a Sunday morning treat of pie for breakfast, thus filling their little veins with tons of sugar. Naturally by 10:30 a.m. they were hyper as they could be. This was okay, though, because the mom liked to give her kids pie for breakfast on Sunday mornings. However, my kid would get the least little bit restless and we would both get yelled at.
Speaking of wooden spoons, in a perfect world there would be a lot of those spoon advocates walking around in a curiously humped posture because their respective wooden spoons had been placed where they rightfully belonged - where the sun don't shine!
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ChasUFarley
I'm so glad I didn't have kids when I was TWI... I can't imagine the "challenge" my 3 year old would be to leadership now... We'd be getting those talks ("Krista, could you please meet me in the family room after fellowship? And please bring Kristopher. Thank you.").... LOL!
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Let's talk about leadership's kids...
As with many things it seemed like leaderships' children had way more grace in situations than Joe-believer's kids did. It seemed like people felt sorry for them, in a way, because they were separated from their parents so much. On the other hand, I noted that a lot of the kids had a aire of entitlement about them - they expected to be treated different or better than the other kids.
Did anyone else notice this?
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Another thing...
Many of you mentioned how there was no longer a children's fellowship - how it was considered a "family fellowship"....
In the early 90's LCM mandiated there would no longer be a Teen Stage or any of that at the ROA because teens were separating themselves off from their families and twigs for the week. He "suggested" (Way Math: Suggestion by MOG = Revelation = Just Do It!) that fellowships divided by age groups - i.e. children's fellowships - be elminated or reduced to just special meetings or whathaveyou...
There was an "incident" at the last ROA where some teens got into some serious trouble by... let's just say... "sharing a tent"... (I'll leave it at that...) I'm now wondering if that incident - and perhaps others that happened - could have been better avoided if the teens were provided with more age-appropriate activities, rather than becoming their own "activity director"...
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Bramble
When my kids were little I used to babysit corps kids for c-night, later c-morning. One thing I do remember about the kids I sat--their corps parents were not good friends or anything--was how solemn the kids were.
I remember a children's fellowship with one of these leader's kid--the kid was so anxious when we were finishing up. He kept suggesting that we sing a song or something(we were letting the kids play while others finished the craft).
Sit still, be quiet, and do nothing was a highly prized skill for young children in TWI.
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