Beware of "The Passion"

[def59]

Movies can be made which attack Christ and belittle Christians and somehow that's OK. But to make a movie glorifying Christ and suddenly its a whole new ball game.

I expect this of course, but it is still a wonder to see.

[Rocky]

quote:

---

Originally posted by jezusfreaky:

Ok...I can accept that opinion of film critics...now how 'bout the other part of my post?

Peace and Love.

---

JF,

I'm not trying to discredit anything.

This is a discussion about the movie, and it was started out with a note about the violence.

I commented on it. I'm just stating my opinion. I don't think the intent of the NYT film critic was to discredit the movie either.

I also think you read too much into my comments and the NYT review (like that I'm not a Christian and that I was getting my "panties in a wad...Idon't wear panties, thank you :)--> ).

--------------------

Now, moving on, I would be most interested in thoughtful reflections from people who see the movie.

I'd like to read about initial reactions, the emotions it evokes, how you felt overall at the end of the movie, what changes in perspective do you believe you have now and think you might have into the future... things like that.

Thanks.

Telling the truth carries risk.

[Wacky Funster]

I just got home from the movie.

I didn't cry...I was pretty emotionless as far as that goes...

But I was sick to my stomache since about 10 minutes into it.

While I was watching it I was thinking that that same situation could happen today...

I didn't feel the spirituality of it all, but that wasn't the purpose of the movie.

I was sick to my stomache...still feel sick...

ugh...

I'm glad I saw it...but, I wouldn't see it again worth nothing...

P.S. This is exactly how I pictured it from twi's teachings, perhaps that's why it didn't surprise me...

I remember someone teaching once that he looked like a piece of meat...and Mel Gibson did a fine job in making a person looking like that and still walking.

[Tom Strange]

ya know wackster... I'm wondering if a lot of us are going to react that way... because we were in a cult... really... I'm serious... I do find I have less emotion a lot of times...

I'm on the outside, looking inside, what do I see? Much confusion, disillusion, all around me.

[Wacky Funster]

" I do find I have less emotion a lot of times..."

Me? Emotionless? ROFLMAO...not me...

I spent 10 years in therapy after twi learning to feel and have emotions again...

Most of the time, I'm a blubbering fool... -->

[excathedra]

quote:

---

I didn't feel the spirituality of it all, but that wasn't the purpose of the movie.

---

what do you mean wack ? what was the purpose of the movie, do you think ?

?

[dmiller]

From Wacky ----------

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

"I didn't feel the spirituality of it all, but that wasn't the purpose of the movie.

I was sick to my stomache...still feel sick...

ugh..."

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Kind of like "Athletes of the Spirit" ??

[Wacky Funster]

yeah d...kinda like that ;)-->

ex...according to the blurbs I've been hearing this movie, as opposed to the feel good movies of Jesus telling his spiritual message...this one reveals the very graphic 3 days of an innocent man being tortured...

I felt nor saw any "spirituality" as I have seen and gleaned from, lets say, King of Kings...

I received no message from this movie.

I felt like a witness to the brutality against him...

[Rocky]

Wacky,

I "feel" for ya! (not completely flippant answer)

I do appreciate your feedback.

I also wonder whether there is some unwritten expectation that all Christians would want to see this movie?

AND... I also do experience emotions and whether I was numb during or at anytime after my stint in the twi army, I don't know. but I am not numb now. Part of my problem is that I can experience too much empathy.

Telling the truth carries risk. I accept that risk.

[Rocky]

http://www.azcentral.com/ent/movies/articl...-review24.html#

The Passion of the Christ

Bill Muller

The Arizona Republic

Feb. 24, 2004 12:00 AM

Maybe it's better if we just learn about Jesus in Sunday school.

Left in the hands of Mel Gibson and his The Passion of the Christ, the basic message of Christianity - love your brother - is obscured under torrents of blood to the point of benumbing the audience.

From the time Jesus (Jim Caviezel) is captured to the time he is crucified, this film is one long, savage beat-down. Given the movie's relentlessly graphic violence, it's a tribute to director Gibson's clout that he avoided an NC-17 rating (The Passion is rated R for graphic violence).

The basic lesson is that Hollywood is here to entertain, not educate. If you want to learn about Christ, your local pastor or priest probably is a better bet.

As a teaching tool for children, The Passion - in Latin and Aramaic with subtitles - is virtually useless. It's not only that kids shouldn't see this movie. Many adults shouldn't see it, unless they feel like spending a lot of time with their hands over their eyes.

While it's not unreasonable to include a certain amount of blood and violence in the Passion story, Gibson goes overboard, including a gruesome and prolonged flogging scene, as well as a repetitive sequence in which Christ is battered to the ground while dragging the cross, then slowly climbs to his feet.

If you can see past the violence, there are some inspired moments, including an eerie opening involving Jesus being tempted by Satan, and a scene in which Jesus's mother recalls him tripping as a child, juxtaposed with his struggles to reach Calvary.

The suffering of Judas - who betrays Jesus for 30 pieces of silver - is well-handled, as are the disciple Peter's denials of Christ while Jesus is being hauled away to the Romans. While Jesus' mother, Mary, is not given many lines, Romanian actress Maia Morgenstern makes good use of her eyes and facial expressions to convey emotion.

As a conversion tool, The Passion of the Christ is lacking. Many of the faithful who fill theaters this week will walk away glowing, considering this represents one of the most prominent dramatizations of Christianity's most important event.

For non-believers or fence sitters, The Passion could seem cryptic and unnecessarily visceral. Those who haven't been to Bible study recently will probably miss some of the more subtle points, though all the basic milestones are there.

As for worries of anti-Semitism, those who go into the film looking for bias will probably find it, but there's nothing obvious. While the Jewish high priests come off as fairly bloodthirsty, the Romans don't fare well, either. Governor Pontius Pilate's conscience-stricken waffling seems a bit far-fetched, given his bloodstained historical legacy.

While Gibson clearly has credibility problems, mostly tied to his adherence to ultra-conservative Catholic views and his Holocaust-denying dad, it's his preoccupation with violence that does him in here.

Think about Gibson's movies for second. Just the body count from the Lethal Weapon films would fill a small cemetery, not to mention all the heads that went a flyin' in Braveheart. Hard to catch the hidden meanings when you're wading through blood and guts.

Luckily for Gibson, with The Passion already sold out to church congregations nationwide, he's preaching to the choir.

Telling the truth carries risk. I accept that risk.

[excathedra]

interesting wack.... thanks for the reply

i (personally) have always been so touched by the gentleness of god leading a man to repentance (sp?)

i am not disagreeing with what other people here are saying. i'm just conversing

i think i said before, when i was a young girl, jesus christ superstar really really got to me. i think i cried forever when mary mag sang "i don't know how to love him"

that's sounds silly like a starstruck lover girl but it moved me deep down inside

?

[excathedra]

oh one more thing "mel gibson is not god" wink wink wink but he sure is cute

?

[Radar OReilly]

Wacky,

That was the Dave Bedard version of the "Passion of The Christ."

ROR

[excathedra]

hey you know what i read today ? a medical doctor's review of all christ's physical tortures. hadn't read that since i was in the way.

?

[dmiller]

Rocky --- Thank you for posting that review!! :)-->

[ex10]

OK, true confession time.

Last night, about 6:00 pm my next door neighbor called and said she and her husband were not gonna make the 7:00 showing of the movie. He was stuck in traffic at the Galleria. (If you know Houston, you understand.)

She asked if Husband and I would like to use her tickets. Very thoughtful of her. (She knew eldest child was going and wanted to know if we'd like to go along.)

Honestly, I didn't want to go. I said "no thank you, but thanks anyway."

I had spent an enjoyable day at a function in Houston being inspired by Rudy Guiliani and Zig Ziglar, and a few other well known people.

I confess, I didn't want to spoil the wonderful day I had. It was just too much of a gear change mentally for me to handle.

I wanna see the movie, mainly because I wanna see for myself what it's all about. But I want some time to prepare myself mentally for it. I gotta get in the mood. And also, I must add, I am one of those people who can't watch violent movies without having flashbacks forever. Too visually oriented, I guess.

But I will see it, eventually, in my own time, on my own terms. :D-->

My daughter did tell me that when the movie ended and the lights came on in the theatre, nobody moved, for an entire 10 minutes. Everybody just sat there. Then finally, someone got up to leave, and others followed, in silence. Nobody said anything, according to daughter.

Interesting....

[jezusfreaky]

Ok Rock...the panties in a wad comment may have been a little over the top...should I have said thong???? ;)-->

quote:

---

While it's not unreasonable to include a certain amount of blood and violence in the Passion story, Gibson goes overboard, including a gruesome and prolonged flogging scene, as well as a repetitive sequence in which Christ is battered to the ground while dragging the cross, then slowly climbs to his feet.

---

Alright...it's probably fairly obvious by now that I group film critics in the same category as sleazy used car salesmen, but this cracks me up!!! Does anyone think that this was a walk in the park for Jesus?!?!?!? If Mel Gibson's objective is to show as accurately as possible what Christ went through then I'm glad he included what he did.

It has been well advertised how violent this movie is, I wouldn't recommend taking small children as they wouldn't understand. I myself want to be able to visualize what my Lord did for me. I'm sure it will be painful, and I'm sure I will bawl like a baby, but I won't regret it and I think it will bring me to another level of thankfulness for the grace and mercy he sacrificed Himself for my sake, and yours.

Peace and Love.

Love y'all,

-Colleen

GO VOLS!!

''...show a little faith, there's magic in the night, you ain't a beauty, but hey, you're alright, oh, and that's alright with me...''

-Bruce Springsteen

[Rocky]

Of course no one thought it would be a walk in the park. But really, film critics together with used car salesmen?

Perhaps some film critics pander to the movie makers with empty flattery, but thoughtful, intelligent criticism is nowhere near that category.

And the guy doing the item for the Arizona Republic obviously has been to church, Sunday School, and knows the story. He also has some of the educational background to be able to relate the movie to what I am interested in knowing about it.

As to why you want to see the movie, I think that's wonderful.

And nothing I have to say should be taken as attempting to discourage you from that experience.

Telling the truth carries risk. I accept that risk.

[dmiller]

Ex10 --Zig Ziglar is still around???

Forgive my ignorance, but wasn't he, and W. Clement Stone, and Og somebody-or-other, the people who taught that to acheive, all you gotta do is BELIEVE? -->

I didn't know Zig was still alive. For some reason I thought he was history (past, not present). Or was it a film presentation? Now I am really curious!

Edited February 26, 2004 by Guest

[Wacky Funster]

Geez, ex10...at my movie, which was the first showing in the area, and the theatre was about 1/8th full, everyone got up right away...including me ;)-->

I didn't have haunting dreams last night.

To be honest with you...I only went to see it because it was Ash Wednesday and I thought it would be a nice, happening thing to do. I work like that sometimes.

I probably wouldn't have opted to see it otherwise.

[Kit Sober]

I thought it was great -- with some great "Mel Gibson moments" of humor (the workshop scene was a favorite) that provided a breath of relief for the soul.

Great satan. Great snake scene. Some torture elements I hadn't even thought of. No sexual torture.

I don't have flashbacks of "the violence" because the violence isn't the end -- there's the resurrection. That's what I see.

In flashbacks of violence that come from other movies -- those violent acts were the end in themselves. But The Passion isn't the violence, but our salvation.

I thought the stark contrast of the violent torture and the quiet words of Jesus ("Love your enemies... bless them that persecute you. . . . They hated me, they will hate you. . . this is my body which is broken for you...do this in memory of me...") made His words more awesome.

Jesus laughed. It was great.

Some stuff only Holy Spirit could have showed him. I loved it.

Mel Gibson indeed put all his knowledge of torture action into play. He has a great knowledge of how to show torture (Lethal Weapon series was a training ground.)

Big difference: satan is defeated -- as the saying goes, "I've read the ending. God wins." That's the message of the movie.

:)-->," God

[jezusfreaky]

Thank you, sweet Kit...

I can't wait to see it, I'm going Saturday night.

quote:

---

Big difference: satan is defeated -- as the saying goes, "I've read the ending. God wins." That's the message of the movie.

---

Now that's the ultimate happy ending! :D-->

Peace and Love.

Love y'all,

-Colleen

GO VOLS!!

''...show a little faith, there's magic in the night, you ain't a beauty, but hey, you're alright, oh, and that's alright with me...''

-Bruce Springsteen

[Tom Strange]

"They" say it took in over $20 million yesterday, I know his purpose wasn't to make the biggest non-weekend/holiday opening ever, but he did...

Also (Bullinger) I think that is good...

I'm on the outside, looking inside, what do I see? Much confusion, disillusion, all around me.

Edited February 26, 2004 by Guest

[ex10]

dmiller

Yes, Zig Ziglar is still around, and spry and as articulate as ever, even though he is well into his 70's. He also is a very outspoken Christian, and yes he's into being positive, setting goals, building integrity, personal character, etc. But it's not the "law of believing" stuff of TWI. He applies the "principles" only to ones personal life and attitude. He doesn't "spiritualize" it. :)-->

Sorry for the derail. ;)-->

[Kit Sober]

derail note: Fred has a Zig Ziglar day-to-day calendar in the bedroom.

NOTE: Zig Ziglar lives what he preaches. He is wonderful.

TWI put a bad taste to a lot of godly things by the hypocricy they glued to them. The positive attitude of life is not bad, it's they hypocricy of using people, of having a gimmee view which is hurtful to all, and which needs to be cut out of our thought patterns like cancer cells.

:)-->," God