My wife and I saw it too. It's probably the most pro-military movie I've ever seen, which suprised me. It seemed like half of the movie was spent on telling the stories of the military and their families.
I was also impressed how even though Moore is very against Bush (and thus seemingly pro-Democrat) he did get some jabs in on the Democrats as well, such as how they failed to support Gore when he seemingly won, even to the point of refusing to support the recounts.
This was an excellent film, and I agree that everyone should see it. It was all old information, but it was presented in such a way that your average person would be able to understand and pay attention.
before this turns into a twosome of Zix verses the "other WRONG side" I will voice my 2 cents worth.
I also saw it today. Really any American should see the film. All of the information wasn't OLD news for me. I appreciated what he said and how he approached the information. (MM)
Guessing Zix will be the first to sign up HIS SON For the war then....lol (see he won't see it so he doesn't know what I mean here) BUT I thought it was all very interesting.
Moore does say its not a fair movie, he admitted on The Daily Show that it isn't fair. UNLIKE life, which is always fair and UNPREDJUIDICE. (oh please correct my spelling if its wrong, I have missed corrections)
My main dislike of the movie was having to see GW's face so often. The mother of course broke my heart.
Lets encourage our youth to see that show, especially voting age 18+ kids. Also any minorities.
I am not a "have, or a have more" so I can say these things.
suz: You have no idea what I would do, and I do not appreciate the insinuation.
I've heard the "every American should see this film" mantra chanted often before. Remember a movie called "Silent Scream"? While all the footage of aborted fetuses was "factual" it wasn't exactly an unbiased look at what happens to an aborted baby. No, I'm not in favor of abortion, but I'm even less in favor of sensationalist propaganda that distorts the truth.
quote:…sign up HIS SON For the war then....lol (see he won't see it so he doesn't know what I mean here)
I know what you mean, and even thinking of it as an “issue” is fallacious, as well as insulting to our service men and women. Nobody signs up his son (or daughter). Armed forces personnel are adults, who sign up on their own.
quote:Lets encourage our youth to see that show, especially voting age 18+ kids.
The ones I know are capable of deciding whether or not to view it, without my encouragement or discouragement. My 20-year-old daughter wants to watch it, but not in a theater. She plans to rent it on DVD, so she can pause it, review sections, research points, etc. Although I don’t personally care to watch it, I’ll probably do the same, so she and I can discuss it.
quote:I am not a "have, or a have more" so I can say these things.
Compared to most of the world, you’re both, but you can say those things anyway.
you have no problem with the film putting forth that the bin Laden
family was never questioned,
Well, some were probably questioned, and others were completely let off the hook, which is why the 9/11 Commission looked into this. There's no question that they were let off the hook entirely too easily.
quote:Originally posted by WordWolf:
...and that an exception was made for them
to leave the country, when all other planes were grounded....
Of course, there were exceptions made at least for Saudis to be able to fly around while all others were grounded. Here is another example. It doesn't list any bin Ladens, but the government initially denied that any such flights took place, and changed their stories for the 9/11 Commission.
quote:Originally posted by WordWolf:
...even though these were shown as patently untrue years ago and can
easily be reviewed by anyone checking the Snopes website?
Ummm, I don't know what snopes site you read, but the normal one says this:
quote:
Part of Mr. Moore's statement has since been proved to be correct — during the ban on air travel, some Saudis (including members of the bin Laden family) were transported by air to assembly points in the U.S. in preparation for their leaving the country.
Perhaps you read the original which was incorrect (nobody is perfect) but the bin Ladens did get a break. Of course, they were not the only ones. There is a lot of confusion about this event, but the fact that our government was allowing Saudis to fly out of the country when we had just been attacked by Saudi terrorists is not a good thing. Also, in the movie Moore doesn't claim that they were never questioned, but that they were not extensively questioned. E.g. someone asked their name and to see their passports before they left the U.S.
Anyway, the point is that what Moore said in the film was not B.S., although many people have mischaracterized what he said as such. Also, it's not suprising that you believe much to be false since the government lied about it until fairly recently.
I saw it, along with my husband and several of our friends. Afterwards, we came to my home, grilled some fish, made some drinks, and had an impromptu wake of sorts.
Yes, any American should see this film.
Any American who isn't afraid of a good discussion.
Any American who isn't comfortable with the cult of total lockstep agreement with our current president.
Certainly, any young person considering military service should see it.
As we were exiting the film at the end, I was walking out behind a 40 something dad with his late teen/early twenties daughter. He looked at her and said, "well?" she looked at him and said, "YEAH, I AM GONNA VOTE."
I think ALL AMERICANS (not ANY, not EVERY) but all Americans of voting age should see this movie, if, for no other reason than to get EVERYBODY OUT TO VOTE, for whoever they want to.
I'm going to see it in a bit,but before I do,I hope I can understand the distinction between all,every,and any American....
That has nothing to do with the film, but it's just a typical discussion of a bunch of ex-cultist loonies with a Wierwillian background. Hopefully as this thread gets longer, you can apply the key of scripture buildup.
All right P-mosh,...I'll try to figure out this scripture build-up thing...I think any American should see the movie,but not every American,however,if each American does watch the movie,at least I'll know All American college football players will see it...
I just got back from seeing the flick with an old gs buddy,and I would say it was a combination of somewhat old hat information,some thought-provoking observations,cinematic cheap shots,heartstring-tugging interviews and some good humor...
As has been mentioned here,I don't think the film exposes a lot of secret files type information....Most people that keep up with politics to some degree probably won't walk out of the theater singing "I Saw the Light"... On the other hand,I don't normally go to a movie theater to keep up with current affairs...Most of Moore's criticism of the Bush administration is based on well publicized sources...I got the feeling he was trying to win over the uninformed,rather than convert the "other side" in that regard...
He spends a good deal of footage on Bush in awkward moments to be on film...Being pestered by reporters on the golf course,getting his hair fixed and smirking before he goes on the air,long silent moments sitting in a chair,etc. ..More or less creative film editing to get some laughs out of the anti-Bush choir...But I think the bigger statement was looking at politics for what it is,looking good on camera and saying the right things....
Although,Moore let's you know very early on his disdain for the President,his most thought provoking statements,or commentary,were somewhat non-partisan...If I had made the movie,I would have played a few bars of Creedances Clearwater's "Fortunate Son" before stopping different senators(Dems & Reps)and asking them if they would enlist their kids in the war...Turns out,only one of them has a son in Iraq...And for me,the most intriguing statement was how it ends up that our more hapless poor folk become the one's that defend the rest of us...
There was a lengthy interview with a mother that lost her son in Iraq,which was very gut-wrenching...Not as much time was spent on the reaction of the family's of the 9/11 attacks...
I don't think Moore is particularly that funny,but there were a few good quips...
While I don't share a lot of Moore's political views,what seems to bother him bothers me also...Namely,we seem to be becoming more of a society where the rich ruling class governs the masses while the poor literally fight the battles...The most memorable statement(and I've already forgotten exactly how it goes)was when a soldier said that when you kill someone,a part of your soul dies....
All right P-mosh,...I'll try to figure out this scripture build-up thing...I think any American should see the movie,but not every American,however,if each American does watch the movie,at least I'll know All American college football players will see it...
Heh, well as bad as Michael Moore can be, he's no Wierwille, or as I used to say when I was a little kid, "Doctor Werewolf." He tries to make his movies to be fairly simple, for whatever reason.
quote:Originally posted by simonzelotes:
I just got back from seeing the flick with an old gs buddy,and I would say it was a combination of somewhat old hat information,some thought-provoking observations,cinematic cheap shots,heartstring-tugging interviews and some good humor...
Hmmm...I would agree with you, but the cheap shots are the humor I think. I don't really recall anything funny that wasn't a cheap shot at someone.
quote:Originally posted by simonzelotes:
As has been mentioned here,I don't think the film exposes a lot of secret files type information....Most people that keep up with politics to some degree probably won't walk out of the theater singing "I Saw the Light"... On the other hand,I don't normally go to a movie theater to keep up with current affairs...Most of Moore's criticism of the Bush administration is based on well publicized sources...I got the feeling he was trying to win over the uninformed,rather than convert the "other side" in that regard...
I agree completely. He pretty much avoided the controversial claims and although he said things without saying them (e.g. saying A + B equals something, and C exists" I don't think he really said anything that wasn't documented somewhere. I'm pretty sure you're right in your estimation of the movie as being geared towards the uninformed. Even for those of us that agree with his views on Bush, it was nice to see because it made a case for what people like me have been saying long before Michael Moore got around to it, and with the video clips he uses it seems a little more credible than me saying, "Bush did this" when you have a video of Bush saying it.
quote:Originally posted by simonzelotes:
He spends a good deal of footage on Bush in awkward moments to be on film...Being pestered by reporters on the golf course,getting his hair fixed and smirking before he goes on the air,long silent moments sitting in a chair,etc. ..More or less creative film editing to get some laughs out of the anti-Bush choir...But I think the bigger statement was looking at politics for what it is,looking good on camera and saying the right things....
The example of Bush playing golf was an attempt to show his hypocracy by showing him saying something about how all the politicians in the other countries need to do something about terrorism, then he doesn't miss a beat and goes straight to playing golf. It insinuates that if he really cared, he wouldn't have been out playing games. That is combined with the statistic of Bush spending 42% of his first 9 months as president on vacation, plus the fact that he didn't immediately order attacks against the Taliban, and actually was looking for a way to blame Iraq at first.
quote:Originally posted by simonzelotes:
Although,Moore let's you know very early on his disdain for the President,his most thought provoking statements,or commentary,were somewhat non-partisan...If I had made the movie,I would have played a few bars of Creedances Clearwater's "Fortunate Son" before stopping different senators(Dems & Reps)and asking them if they would enlist their kids in the war...Turns out,only one of them has a son in Iraq...And for me,the most intriguing statement was how it ends up that our more hapless poor folk become the one's that defend the rest of us...
Actually I was impressed with how non-partisan most of the film was. He was very damning of the Bush administration and the Bush family, but I think he made the Democratic party look worse as a group than he did the Republican party. It was a Democrat that he recorded admitting that none of congress actually reads anything they sign, he blamed the Democrats for failing to support Gore, and he condemned the Democrats for blindly supporting the war in Iraq.
quote:Originally posted by simonzelotes:
There was a lengthy interview with a mother that lost her son in Iraq,which was very gut-wrenching...Not as much time was spent on the reaction of the family's of the 9/11 attacks...
I'm not sure why either, although the woman who lost her son was a very interesting case. The fact was that she supported the war in Iraq at first, as well as saying she encouraged her kids to join the military to pay for school because she couldn't afford it, and was your typical somewhat conservative person before her son was sent to Iraq. Afterwards, she got letters from her son that complained about the war, and then when his blackhawk went down, she gravitated completely against Bush where she had been a lukewarm supporter before. I think the point Moore was trying to make is that it's ok to not support the war in Iraq, because it's not just fringe elements that are against it. A point he probably should have made clearer is that we should respect the position of President of the United States, but that doesn't mean we have to blindly respect the person occupying it either.
quote:Originally posted by simonzelotes:
I don't think Moore is particularly that funny,but there were a few good quips...
Combining your opinion with mine, I'm still sure we come up short to how humorous Moore views himself. From what I hear, a lot of people were relieved that he didn't focus this movie on himself like he apparently did in his previous films.
quote:Originally posted by simonzelotes:
While I don't share a lot of Moore's political views,what seems to bother him bothers me also...Namely,we seem to be becoming more of a society where the rich ruling class governs the masses while the poor literally fight the battles...The most memorable statement(and I've already forgotten exactly how it goes)was when a soldier said that when you kill someone,a part of your soul dies....
I think that another strong quote was when the Marine that refused to go back to Iraq said that he sees no reason for him to be sent over there just to kill other poor people. I think because we're in the middle of this culture we don't see the huge gulf between the rich and poor on many levels. We do have it a lot easier than many other nations to move from one to another, but it still seems to me like the wealthy are trying to fight to keep their club exclusive...as well as trying to have sort of a feudal system where they call the shots.
All in all, I've not really heard anything too bad about this movie from anyone that has actually seen it. I even read on FreeRepublic (a far-right discussion and news site) a review where the guy grudgingly said that it was effective and would be difficult for the right to counter.
I tried not to reveal what happens at the end. SINCE I HAVE seen it and feel fit to comment w/out the digs from those who have nor "won't give their money to Moore", I also wanted to say another thing.
Our Military need our prayers, support, etc. THEY need to steal their minds while in a war situation. I am a military brat and I know the theory they usually carry with them while in the service. Yes it showed the gung ho over there, killing, etc. It shocked me though to see actual military THERE, fighting and killing and still hating it!!! Its not the normal military attitude. The letter from the son before he died even revealed how stupid it is to be there!! And that line about part of your soul dieing when you kill someone, that was good.
I also know war makes money, for the haves and the have mores. Like I said, I am not either of those. No white tie dinners for me.
Michael was on 60 minutes last night and he said he HATES to be an upfront guy, hates doing confrontations, hates being in the spotlight. But he does it for the bigger reason. (yeah I know he is getting rich too off this stuff, but for this film I believe its getting to people for a different reason)
I never saw this film as a "Lets Hate Bush Together" film, I viewed it as more the Iraq war, who is fighting it, why, and who is profiting from it.
The other great thing the film does IS to show how people (well MOST, not all as we WELL know) can and do change thier opinion. When you are a living part of it, well you have a different view, not the view thru the rose colored glasses view, but reality view.
I respected how he showed 9/11 only with sound, against a blacked-out screen. We've all seen that enough to know how horrible it was. I also thought that it was very important that he showed the horrors that the Iraqi civilians are going through, however, in living color. We need to see what they are living with.
I felt that he didn't show the families of 9/11 because we didn't have a choice that those families suffered. We do have a choice that the military families lose their children.
Leni Riefenstahl made pretty convincing movies too, as did Sergey Eisenstein.
Of course, the net result of those flicks were the rise of the Nazis and Soviet Communists, but what's a little skewed propaganda among friends, eh? It's not like nothing ever happened to those countries, right? [ /sarcasm]
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Mister P-Mosh
My wife and I saw it too. It's probably the most pro-military movie I've ever seen, which suprised me. It seemed like half of the movie was spent on telling the stories of the military and their families.
I was also impressed how even though Moore is very against Bush (and thus seemingly pro-Democrat) he did get some jabs in on the Democrats as well, such as how they failed to support Gore when he seemingly won, even to the point of refusing to support the recounts.
This was an excellent film, and I agree that everyone should see it. It was all old information, but it was presented in such a way that your average person would be able to understand and pay attention.
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Zixar
With respect, Daryl, I'm sure "The Myth Of The Six Million" sounded just as plausible to those who were looking for a reason to be anti-Semitic, too.
Moore won't get my money.
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Mister P-Mosh
If you don't see it and have no idea what it's really about, what will be the basis for your unfounded criticism of the film?
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Zixar
His demonstrated lack of integrity in the past, coupled with his personal admission that the film is heavily biased.
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suz
before this turns into a twosome of Zix verses the "other WRONG side" I will voice my 2 cents worth.
I also saw it today. Really any American should see the film. All of the information wasn't OLD news for me. I appreciated what he said and how he approached the information. (MM)
Guessing Zix will be the first to sign up HIS SON For the war then....lol (see he won't see it so he doesn't know what I mean here) BUT I thought it was all very interesting.
Moore does say its not a fair movie, he admitted on The Daily Show that it isn't fair. UNLIKE life, which is always fair and UNPREDJUIDICE. (oh please correct my spelling if its wrong, I have missed corrections)
My main dislike of the movie was having to see GW's face so often. The mother of course broke my heart.
Lets encourage our youth to see that show, especially voting age 18+ kids. Also any minorities.
I am not a "have, or a have more" so I can say these things.
suz
:D-->
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WordWolf
So, Suz,
you have no problem with the film putting forth that the bin Laden
family was never questioned, and that an exception was made for them
to leave the country, when all other planes were grounded....
even though these were shown as patently untrue years ago and can
easily be reviewed by anyone checking the Snopes website?
I'm not a fan of either political side, but I resent attempts to lie or deceive,
especially under the guise of "reporting the facts".
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Zixar
suz: You have no idea what I would do, and I do not appreciate the insinuation.
I've heard the "every American should see this film" mantra chanted often before. Remember a movie called "Silent Scream"? While all the footage of aborted fetuses was "factual" it wasn't exactly an unbiased look at what happens to an aborted baby. No, I'm not in favor of abortion, but I'm even less in favor of sensationalist propaganda that distorts the truth.
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suz
you guys bicker on about what is true and what you would or wouldn't do,
none of this moves me.
Green is good!
suz
:D-->
PS I said ANY AMERICAN, not EVERY,
1st you change a word.....then.....
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Tom Strange
...and after seeing the film Suz decided to wear a red, white and blue scarf! ...who says you can't get patriotic seeing the movie?
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LG
I know what you mean, and even thinking of it as an “issue” is fallacious, as well as insulting to our service men and women. Nobody signs up his son (or daughter). Armed forces personnel are adults, who sign up on their own.
The ones I know are capable of deciding whether or not to view it, without my encouragement or discouragement. My 20-year-old daughter wants to watch it, but not in a theater. She plans to rent it on DVD, so she can pause it, review sections, research points, etc. Although I don’t personally care to watch it, I’ll probably do the same, so she and I can discuss it. Compared to most of the world, you’re both, but you can say those things anyway.Link to comment
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OnionEater
I love it.lol
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Mister P-Mosh
Well, some were probably questioned, and others were completely let off the hook, which is why the 9/11 Commission looked into this. There's no question that they were let off the hook entirely too easily.
Of course, there were exceptions made at least for Saudis to be able to fly around while all others were grounded. Here is another example. It doesn't list any bin Ladens, but the government initially denied that any such flights took place, and changed their stories for the 9/11 Commission.
Ummm, I don't know what snopes site you read, but the normal one says this:
Perhaps you read the original which was incorrect (nobody is perfect) but the bin Ladens did get a break. Of course, they were not the only ones. There is a lot of confusion about this event, but the fact that our government was allowing Saudis to fly out of the country when we had just been attacked by Saudi terrorists is not a good thing. Also, in the movie Moore doesn't claim that they were never questioned, but that they were not extensively questioned. E.g. someone asked their name and to see their passports before they left the U.S.
Anyway, the point is that what Moore said in the film was not B.S., although many people have mischaracterized what he said as such. Also, it's not suprising that you believe much to be false since the government lied about it until fairly recently.
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notinKansasanymore
I saw it, along with my husband and several of our friends. Afterwards, we came to my home, grilled some fish, made some drinks, and had an impromptu wake of sorts.
Yes, any American should see this film.
Any American who isn't afraid of a good discussion.
Any American who isn't comfortable with the cult of total lockstep agreement with our current president.
Certainly, any young person considering military service should see it.
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Radar OReilly
I went to see it yesterday.
As we were exiting the film at the end, I was walking out behind a 40 something dad with his late teen/early twenties daughter. He looked at her and said, "well?" she looked at him and said, "YEAH, I AM GONNA VOTE."
I think ALL AMERICANS (not ANY, not EVERY) but all Americans of voting age should see this movie, if, for no other reason than to get EVERYBODY OUT TO VOTE, for whoever they want to.
Radar
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simonzelotes
I'm going to see it in a bit,but before I do,I hope I can understand the distinction between all,every,and any American....
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Radar OReilly
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Mister P-Mosh
That has nothing to do with the film, but it's just a typical discussion of a bunch of ex-cultist loonies with a Wierwillian background. Hopefully as this thread gets longer, you can apply the key of scripture buildup.
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excathedra
simon i'd love to know your reaction to this movie
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simonzelotes
All right P-mosh,...I'll try to figure out this scripture build-up thing...I think any American should see the movie,but not every American,however,if each American does watch the movie,at least I'll know All American college football players will see it...
I just got back from seeing the flick with an old gs buddy,and I would say it was a combination of somewhat old hat information,some thought-provoking observations,cinematic cheap shots,heartstring-tugging interviews and some good humor...
As has been mentioned here,I don't think the film exposes a lot of secret files type information....Most people that keep up with politics to some degree probably won't walk out of the theater singing "I Saw the Light"... On the other hand,I don't normally go to a movie theater to keep up with current affairs...Most of Moore's criticism of the Bush administration is based on well publicized sources...I got the feeling he was trying to win over the uninformed,rather than convert the "other side" in that regard...
He spends a good deal of footage on Bush in awkward moments to be on film...Being pestered by reporters on the golf course,getting his hair fixed and smirking before he goes on the air,long silent moments sitting in a chair,etc. ..More or less creative film editing to get some laughs out of the anti-Bush choir...But I think the bigger statement was looking at politics for what it is,looking good on camera and saying the right things....
Although,Moore let's you know very early on his disdain for the President,his most thought provoking statements,or commentary,were somewhat non-partisan...If I had made the movie,I would have played a few bars of Creedances Clearwater's "Fortunate Son" before stopping different senators(Dems & Reps)and asking them if they would enlist their kids in the war...Turns out,only one of them has a son in Iraq...And for me,the most intriguing statement was how it ends up that our more hapless poor folk become the one's that defend the rest of us...
There was a lengthy interview with a mother that lost her son in Iraq,which was very gut-wrenching...Not as much time was spent on the reaction of the family's of the 9/11 attacks...
I don't think Moore is particularly that funny,but there were a few good quips...
While I don't share a lot of Moore's political views,what seems to bother him bothers me also...Namely,we seem to be becoming more of a society where the rich ruling class governs the masses while the poor literally fight the battles...The most memorable statement(and I've already forgotten exactly how it goes)was when a soldier said that when you kill someone,a part of your soul dies....
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Mister P-Mosh
Heh, well as bad as Michael Moore can be, he's no Wierwille, or as I used to say when I was a little kid, "Doctor Werewolf." He tries to make his movies to be fairly simple, for whatever reason.
Hmmm...I would agree with you, but the cheap shots are the humor I think. I don't really recall anything funny that wasn't a cheap shot at someone.
I agree completely. He pretty much avoided the controversial claims and although he said things without saying them (e.g. saying A + B equals something, and C exists" I don't think he really said anything that wasn't documented somewhere. I'm pretty sure you're right in your estimation of the movie as being geared towards the uninformed. Even for those of us that agree with his views on Bush, it was nice to see because it made a case for what people like me have been saying long before Michael Moore got around to it, and with the video clips he uses it seems a little more credible than me saying, "Bush did this" when you have a video of Bush saying it.
The example of Bush playing golf was an attempt to show his hypocracy by showing him saying something about how all the politicians in the other countries need to do something about terrorism, then he doesn't miss a beat and goes straight to playing golf. It insinuates that if he really cared, he wouldn't have been out playing games. That is combined with the statistic of Bush spending 42% of his first 9 months as president on vacation, plus the fact that he didn't immediately order attacks against the Taliban, and actually was looking for a way to blame Iraq at first.
Actually I was impressed with how non-partisan most of the film was. He was very damning of the Bush administration and the Bush family, but I think he made the Democratic party look worse as a group than he did the Republican party. It was a Democrat that he recorded admitting that none of congress actually reads anything they sign, he blamed the Democrats for failing to support Gore, and he condemned the Democrats for blindly supporting the war in Iraq.
I'm not sure why either, although the woman who lost her son was a very interesting case. The fact was that she supported the war in Iraq at first, as well as saying she encouraged her kids to join the military to pay for school because she couldn't afford it, and was your typical somewhat conservative person before her son was sent to Iraq. Afterwards, she got letters from her son that complained about the war, and then when his blackhawk went down, she gravitated completely against Bush where she had been a lukewarm supporter before. I think the point Moore was trying to make is that it's ok to not support the war in Iraq, because it's not just fringe elements that are against it. A point he probably should have made clearer is that we should respect the position of President of the United States, but that doesn't mean we have to blindly respect the person occupying it either.
Combining your opinion with mine, I'm still sure we come up short to how humorous Moore views himself. From what I hear, a lot of people were relieved that he didn't focus this movie on himself like he apparently did in his previous films.
I think that another strong quote was when the Marine that refused to go back to Iraq said that he sees no reason for him to be sent over there just to kill other poor people. I think because we're in the middle of this culture we don't see the huge gulf between the rich and poor on many levels. We do have it a lot easier than many other nations to move from one to another, but it still seems to me like the wealthy are trying to fight to keep their club exclusive...as well as trying to have sort of a feudal system where they call the shots.
All in all, I've not really heard anything too bad about this movie from anyone that has actually seen it. I even read on FreeRepublic (a far-right discussion and news site) a review where the guy grudgingly said that it was effective and would be difficult for the right to counter.
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suz
darn Mr P you gave away most of the movie!!!
I tried not to reveal what happens at the end. SINCE I HAVE seen it and feel fit to comment w/out the digs from those who have nor "won't give their money to Moore", I also wanted to say another thing.
Our Military need our prayers, support, etc. THEY need to steal their minds while in a war situation. I am a military brat and I know the theory they usually carry with them while in the service. Yes it showed the gung ho over there, killing, etc. It shocked me though to see actual military THERE, fighting and killing and still hating it!!! Its not the normal military attitude. The letter from the son before he died even revealed how stupid it is to be there!! And that line about part of your soul dieing when you kill someone, that was good.
I also know war makes money, for the haves and the have mores. Like I said, I am not either of those. No white tie dinners for me.
Michael was on 60 minutes last night and he said he HATES to be an upfront guy, hates doing confrontations, hates being in the spotlight. But he does it for the bigger reason. (yeah I know he is getting rich too off this stuff, but for this film I believe its getting to people for a different reason)
I never saw this film as a "Lets Hate Bush Together" film, I viewed it as more the Iraq war, who is fighting it, why, and who is profiting from it.
The other great thing the film does IS to show how people (well MOST, not all as we WELL know) can and do change thier opinion. When you are a living part of it, well you have a different view, not the view thru the rose colored glasses view, but reality view.
Guess I could have seen Dodgeball instead.
suz
:D-->
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simonzelotes
P-mosh,
I think we're in too much agreement to be the next Siskel and Ebert
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notinKansasanymore
I respected how he showed 9/11 only with sound, against a blacked-out screen. We've all seen that enough to know how horrible it was. I also thought that it was very important that he showed the horrors that the Iraqi civilians are going through, however, in living color. We need to see what they are living with.
I felt that he didn't show the families of 9/11 because we didn't have a choice that those families suffered. We do have a choice that the military families lose their children.
Well, that's all I've got to say tonight.
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Zixar
Leni Riefenstahl made pretty convincing movies too, as did Sergey Eisenstein.
Of course, the net result of those flicks were the rise of the Nazis and Soviet Communists, but what's a little skewed propaganda among friends, eh? It's not like nothing ever happened to those countries, right? [ /sarcasm]
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