I saw The Alamo and didn't think it was quite that bad. For one thing, Bowie had a wife that was Mexican, there was a Mexican guy (I forgot his name) that was a leader of Tejano troops that took the message to Houston, and then wasn't allowed to return to his men who died at the Alamo until after the war was over.
I do think that they could have portrayed it a lot better, since technically the Americans were the "bad guys" but they did a lot better than the John Wayne version.
I liked Billy Bob Thorton's Davy Crockett. I may have read too much into it, but I think he should win an Oscar for his performance. It wasn't so much that he did a great job with his lines, but it was the expressions of brave cowardice he had that impressed me.
P-Mosh: The Tejano captain's name was Juan Seguin. And I'll agree that Billy Bob's performance was the best in the film. Still, it left me amazingly underwhelmed for a $100 million budget.
Seeing as this is the FIFTEENTH remake of THE ALAMO, I'd sorta expect the subject matter to be getting a little flabby. Just what was the point in doing this AGAIN?
They must just be out of ideas. I can think of no other motive...
Seeing as this is the FIFTEENTH remake of THE ALAMO, I'd sorta expect the subject matter to be getting a little flabby. Just what was the point in doing this AGAIN?
They must just be out of ideas. I can think of no other motive...
You're probably right, but that seems to happen with historical plots and public domain literature. How many Romeo and Juliet movies have there been? How many movies have been made about World War II or the Civil War that rehash the same story over and over? I'm afraid that The Alamo is probably going to be one of the best films about the place that will ever be made. It can only get worse, because Hollywood is going to have to start adding robots from the future and Jim Bowie played by Jackie Chan in order to "keep it fresh."
My wife and I went to see "The Alamo" last weekend. As a movie, I don't think it was the greatest show to ever hit town, but I enjoyed it.
I was one of those kids back in gradeschool during the mid-50s who idolized Fess Parker as Davy Crockett. I didn't have the 'coonskin cap. Mine was a tan colored broad-brim hat, but it had the logo. A few years back, my sister was using a metal detector in the yard where we grew up, and she found my old copper Davy Crockett ring. It had been whacked by a lawn-mower sometime in the intervening decades. What a shame!
I've read a number of books about the Alamo since then, with variant interpretations of the events.
I liked the movie "Gone to Texas" (at least I think that is the title) where Sam Elliot played Houston. It showed the battle where Bowie and his men took San Antonio de Bejar from General Cos. Houston ordered them to destroy the Alamo and get out of the place. His last line at that point was something like "This is a death trap." The movie then cuts immediately to a scene of the carnage following Santa Anna's assault on the mission. That's all that "Gone to Texas" showed of fighting at the Alamo. But "Gone to Texas" showed what was happening at Goliad at the same time, and it had a great representation of the battle of San Jacinto. Vastly superior to "The Alamo"'s version. "The Alamo" cut out too much, in my opinion, of "the great skedaddle".
The art director of "The Alamo" went to considerable lengths to capture "authentic" imagery. Crockett looked like the paintings we have of him (thankfully NOT like John Wayne). Houston's tricorn and the scene where Santa Anna surrenders Texas while the wounded Houston lays at the foot of a big tree were both taken from well known paintings.
I was impressed with the visual presentation of the Mexican army and the fighting. The military buff in me was thrilled when the rank of Mexican pioneers, with their aprons, axes and bushy beards loomed up out of the darkness.
When I saw the arcing "fireballs" in the teasers on TV, I thought that the film makers had given in to the Hollywood notion that nobody can fight without big explosions (see "Skeleton Island", "Timeline" et al.). But when they showed Mexican artillerists actually firing a battery of Congreve rockets, it all fell so perfectly into place.
I have come to admire the real Juan Seguin, and I wish the character could have had a more heroic part in the movie. I liked the part where his amigos asked him how he could put up with such a bunch of low-lifes, and he replied "The enemy of my enemy is my friend."
I don't think Santa Anna (the real one) was being blood thirsty just for the sake of blood thirstiness. The massacres at the Alamo and at Goliad were attempts to use terror as part of Santa Anna's Texan campaign.
Santa Anna kept calling the Texans "pirates" in the movie. They actually WERE called "filibusters" at the time, another word for "pirates". Just goes to show where the thinking was, when early U.S. Senators were forming the traditions of that esteemed legislative body.
I'll post some more later about how I perceived the film makers' handling of the balance between legend and reality. Maybe even a thing or two about toy soldiers.
At one point before San Jacinto, Houston had Deaf Smith burn a bridge. The movie would have us believe it was behind the Mexicans and Houston had it burned to put his opponents between a rock and a hard place. Actually, the bridge was on the retreat route Houston's OWN men would have to take if THEY chose to cut and run. It was a little bit of preventive morale maintenance.
I really liked the film's portrayal of Crockett. He didn't come off as the bluff, two-dimensional character we saw played by Parker and Wayne. I liked his fiddle playing, and his story about passing the potatoes, and his opening question on arriving at the Alamo, "The fighting IS over, here, isn't it?" The film showed him as a proto-celebrity trapped by his own public image.
There has been quite heated debate recently about how Crockett actually met his end. Did he die swinging his ammunitionless "Old Betsy" like a club against a horde of attackers? Or did he survive the fighting, only to be executed later?
"The Alamo" gives a nod to this controversy, but uses the occassion to add even more to the legend. The film delicately passes over exactly HOW Crockett became the last survivor from among the defenders. But what better way to top that than by having the hero alone, bloodied and on his knees, call for the surrender of the entire Mexican army... AND offer it clemency!
Like I said, it wasn't the best movie that's ever come to town, but I did enjoy it!
Thanks for the history lesson. I've been interested in the Battle of San Jacinto since moving here 5 years ago. I live just a couple of miles from Spring Creek, the vicinity of the home of Samuel McCurley, which was one of the stops of the Texan army on the way to the place where the battle happened. I've been fascinated to think of the army stomping through my neighborhood on the way to one of the most important battles for Texas Independence.
Is there a particular book you can recommend to get the overall story of San Jacinto?
myotherseestorEx10... I wonder if they stopped to play golf and have a Shiner? That's why the Mexicans wanted Texas back! the beer! (they loved their Shiner and Pearl)
Is there a particular book you can recommend to get the overall story of San Jacinto?
I've been looking for one also. I've read up on it some, but I'd be more interested in a full book on it rather than just a chapter in a general history book. Unfortunately, the B&N near me has two Alamo-related books, neither of which look good.
How can anything fail on a matter of opinion? If I were of the opinion that space aliens really fought the Battle of San Jacinto, it might be in factual error, but it's certainly an opinion.
Google turned up some historical sites, some military sites, some pix, some commentary--a little bit of everything about San Jacinto. Call me old-fashioned, but I think a multitude of sources is more illustrative than one author's book.
Ah but Zix, it's much more fun to read a good book. ;)-->
And Tom, as if we don't have enough golf courses around here, they're now building a Tom Fazio course, guess where? On Spring Creek, right down the street from me. Near the spot where the Texas army camped. I wonder if all those Texan warriors ever dreamed they were fighting a war for Independence so this area could be Golfers Heaven?
I guess Fazio had to design a course here since Gary Player, Arnold Palmer and Jack Nicklaus all have courses here. Fazio's is gonna be almost right next to Augusta Pines. Sheesh. Too bad I don't golf.
I have a book in my library titled "The Alamo and the Texas War for Independence", by Albert A. Nofi (Combined Books, Inc., Conshohocken, PA, 1992, ISBN 0938289101). While the book is primarily about the whole war, during which the Alamo featured prominently, it has a 17 page chapter about San Jacinto.
That may not sound like much, but the whole book is packed with information in the form of tables, charts, sidebars and maps. Page 153 has the best map I've seen locating the action at San Jacinto on that fateful day.
While the book is jammed with scholarly information, the narrative itself is written in a popular style, very easy to follow and digest.
I skimmed the article. My only comment is "Yeah, whatever. --> "
Honestly, I don't know enough to make an intelligent comment on what actually happened. But the bias of whoever wrote the article is pretty apparent. Maybe someday, when I have some time, it would be fun to investigate, but in the mean time.....I'm just really glad the Texans won, no matter how despicable they were. :D-->
And Steve, I'm gonna check the local library here which has a big "Texas History" section for the book you mentioned. I'm just looking for something that's informative, yet easy to read.
Raf - I think the reviewer (Phil Hall?) got some of the surface impressions right, but his own biases really spoil everything.
The spurious connections he draws between the Alamo and the war in Iraq, and his final sentence, "But then again, when did the general population ever have the courage to accept truth when it was laid in front of them?" reveal more about his own biases than about the movie.
The reviewer considers himself to be superior to the "general population" in his "courage" to "accept truth" when it is laid in front of *him*! Never mind that his perception of "truth" may not actually accord with reality. How wearisomely democratic to have people decide for themselves what they will regard as truth! How uncourageous of them not to accept the truth when I lay it out in front of them.
My Grandma, who I was close to growing up, was a native Texan, and a Texas History buff. She loved the Alamo and the myths and folklore that went along with it. Now that I'm older and she is gone, I really wish I had paid more attention to her stories about her ancestors who fought for Texan Independence and then again in the Civil War. Who knew I would be living in her beloved Texas and feel such a connection to her and her family...
That last sentence from the review of "The Alamo" is still rankling me. Sounds like something "Mike" would write. How could such a sentence ever possibly fit in with a *movie* review? It's not about the movie, it's a statement (made in the form of a rhetorical question) about the supposed attitude of the audience. It actually tells more about the shallow, supercilious attitude of the reviewer than about anything else.
Where was the editor? My Pop would never have let that kind of thing stand in a story one of his reporters had turned in!
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Tom Strange
so Zix... what you're telling me is I shouldn't see the Alamo with my in laws???
(they're Mexican and I'm from Texas)
I think I'll just skip Hellboy and wait for Van Helsing... although the new M. Night Shamalama movie is coming soon and looks quite interesting...
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Zixar
Tom: Exactly. Santa Anna is portrayed as a bloodthirsty fiend while all the Texans have little halos...figuratively speaking.
Hellboy is a good way to kill an afternoon, though.
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Mister P-Mosh
I saw The Alamo and didn't think it was quite that bad. For one thing, Bowie had a wife that was Mexican, there was a Mexican guy (I forgot his name) that was a leader of Tejano troops that took the message to Houston, and then wasn't allowed to return to his men who died at the Alamo until after the war was over.
I do think that they could have portrayed it a lot better, since technically the Americans were the "bad guys" but they did a lot better than the John Wayne version.
I liked Billy Bob Thorton's Davy Crockett. I may have read too much into it, but I think he should win an Oscar for his performance. It wasn't so much that he did a great job with his lines, but it was the expressions of brave cowardice he had that impressed me.
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Zixar
P-Mosh: The Tejano captain's name was Juan Seguin. And I'll agree that Billy Bob's performance was the best in the film. Still, it left me amazingly underwhelmed for a $100 million budget.
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George Aar
Seeing as this is the FIFTEENTH remake of THE ALAMO, I'd sorta expect the subject matter to be getting a little flabby. Just what was the point in doing this AGAIN?
They must just be out of ideas. I can think of no other motive...
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Mister P-Mosh
You're probably right, but that seems to happen with historical plots and public domain literature. How many Romeo and Juliet movies have there been? How many movies have been made about World War II or the Civil War that rehash the same story over and over? I'm afraid that The Alamo is probably going to be one of the best films about the place that will ever be made. It can only get worse, because Hollywood is going to have to start adding robots from the future and Jim Bowie played by Jackie Chan in order to "keep it fresh."
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Steve Lortz
My wife and I went to see "The Alamo" last weekend. As a movie, I don't think it was the greatest show to ever hit town, but I enjoyed it.
I was one of those kids back in gradeschool during the mid-50s who idolized Fess Parker as Davy Crockett. I didn't have the 'coonskin cap. Mine was a tan colored broad-brim hat, but it had the logo. A few years back, my sister was using a metal detector in the yard where we grew up, and she found my old copper Davy Crockett ring. It had been whacked by a lawn-mower sometime in the intervening decades. What a shame!
I've read a number of books about the Alamo since then, with variant interpretations of the events.
I liked the movie "Gone to Texas" (at least I think that is the title) where Sam Elliot played Houston. It showed the battle where Bowie and his men took San Antonio de Bejar from General Cos. Houston ordered them to destroy the Alamo and get out of the place. His last line at that point was something like "This is a death trap." The movie then cuts immediately to a scene of the carnage following Santa Anna's assault on the mission. That's all that "Gone to Texas" showed of fighting at the Alamo. But "Gone to Texas" showed what was happening at Goliad at the same time, and it had a great representation of the battle of San Jacinto. Vastly superior to "The Alamo"'s version. "The Alamo" cut out too much, in my opinion, of "the great skedaddle".
I have to go catch a bus. I'll add more later.
Love,
Steve
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Steve Lortz
The art director of "The Alamo" went to considerable lengths to capture "authentic" imagery. Crockett looked like the paintings we have of him (thankfully NOT like John Wayne). Houston's tricorn and the scene where Santa Anna surrenders Texas while the wounded Houston lays at the foot of a big tree were both taken from well known paintings.
I was impressed with the visual presentation of the Mexican army and the fighting. The military buff in me was thrilled when the rank of Mexican pioneers, with their aprons, axes and bushy beards loomed up out of the darkness.
When I saw the arcing "fireballs" in the teasers on TV, I thought that the film makers had given in to the Hollywood notion that nobody can fight without big explosions (see "Skeleton Island", "Timeline" et al.). But when they showed Mexican artillerists actually firing a battery of Congreve rockets, it all fell so perfectly into place.
I have come to admire the real Juan Seguin, and I wish the character could have had a more heroic part in the movie. I liked the part where his amigos asked him how he could put up with such a bunch of low-lifes, and he replied "The enemy of my enemy is my friend."
I don't think Santa Anna (the real one) was being blood thirsty just for the sake of blood thirstiness. The massacres at the Alamo and at Goliad were attempts to use terror as part of Santa Anna's Texan campaign.
Santa Anna kept calling the Texans "pirates" in the movie. They actually WERE called "filibusters" at the time, another word for "pirates". Just goes to show where the thinking was, when early U.S. Senators were forming the traditions of that esteemed legislative body.
I'll post some more later about how I perceived the film makers' handling of the balance between legend and reality. Maybe even a thing or two about toy soldiers.
Love,
Steve
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Steve Lortz
A few comments about reality and legend.
At one point before San Jacinto, Houston had Deaf Smith burn a bridge. The movie would have us believe it was behind the Mexicans and Houston had it burned to put his opponents between a rock and a hard place. Actually, the bridge was on the retreat route Houston's OWN men would have to take if THEY chose to cut and run. It was a little bit of preventive morale maintenance.
I really liked the film's portrayal of Crockett. He didn't come off as the bluff, two-dimensional character we saw played by Parker and Wayne. I liked his fiddle playing, and his story about passing the potatoes, and his opening question on arriving at the Alamo, "The fighting IS over, here, isn't it?" The film showed him as a proto-celebrity trapped by his own public image.
There has been quite heated debate recently about how Crockett actually met his end. Did he die swinging his ammunitionless "Old Betsy" like a club against a horde of attackers? Or did he survive the fighting, only to be executed later?
"The Alamo" gives a nod to this controversy, but uses the occassion to add even more to the legend. The film delicately passes over exactly HOW Crockett became the last survivor from among the defenders. But what better way to top that than by having the hero alone, bloodied and on his knees, call for the surrender of the entire Mexican army... AND offer it clemency!
Like I said, it wasn't the best movie that's ever come to town, but I did enjoy it!
Love,
Steve
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ex10
Steve
Thanks for the history lesson. I've been interested in the Battle of San Jacinto since moving here 5 years ago. I live just a couple of miles from Spring Creek, the vicinity of the home of Samuel McCurley, which was one of the stops of the Texan army on the way to the place where the battle happened. I've been fascinated to think of the army stomping through my neighborhood on the way to one of the most important battles for Texas Independence.
Is there a particular book you can recommend to get the overall story of San Jacinto?
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Tom Strange
myotherseestorEx10... I wonder if they stopped to play golf and have a Shiner? That's why the Mexicans wanted Texas back! the beer! (they loved their Shiner and Pearl)
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Mister P-Mosh
I've been looking for one also. I've read up on it some, but I'd be more interested in a full book on it rather than just a chapter in a general history book. Unfortunately, the B&N near me has two Alamo-related books, neither of which look good.
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Zixar
When all else fails, there's always Google...
;)-->
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Mister P-Mosh
The problem with google is that it fails on matters of opinion. I think amazon.com might be ok since they let you preview some books.
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Zixar
How can anything fail on a matter of opinion? If I were of the opinion that space aliens really fought the Battle of San Jacinto, it might be in factual error, but it's certainly an opinion.
Google turned up some historical sites, some military sites, some pix, some commentary--a little bit of everything about San Jacinto. Call me old-fashioned, but I think a multitude of sources is more illustrative than one author's book.
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ex10
Ah but Zix, it's much more fun to read a good book.
;)-->
And Tom, as if we don't have enough golf courses around here, they're now building a Tom Fazio course, guess where? On Spring Creek, right down the street from me. Near the spot where the Texas army camped. I wonder if all those Texan warriors ever dreamed they were fighting a war for Independence so this area could be Golfers Heaven?
I guess Fazio had to design a course here since Gary Player, Arnold Palmer and Jack Nicklaus all have courses here. Fazio's is gonna be almost right next to Augusta Pines. Sheesh. Too bad I don't golf.
Mr. P-Mosh, do you golf?
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Steve Lortz
ex10 and Mister P-Mosh -
I have a book in my library titled "The Alamo and the Texas War for Independence", by Albert A. Nofi (Combined Books, Inc., Conshohocken, PA, 1992, ISBN 0938289101). While the book is primarily about the whole war, during which the Alamo featured prominently, it has a 17 page chapter about San Jacinto.
That may not sound like much, but the whole book is packed with information in the form of tables, charts, sidebars and maps. Page 153 has the best map I've seen locating the action at San Jacinto on that fateful day.
While the book is jammed with scholarly information, the narrative itself is written in a popular style, very easy to follow and digest.
More later. I'm exhausted today.
Love,
Steve
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Raf
I was surprised to read this...
Do you guys concur with this article?
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ex10
I skimmed the article. My only comment is "Yeah, whatever.
--> "
Honestly, I don't know enough to make an intelligent comment on what actually happened. But the bias of whoever wrote the article is pretty apparent. Maybe someday, when I have some time, it would be fun to investigate, but in the mean time.....I'm just really glad the Texans won, no matter how despicable they were.
:D-->
And Steve, I'm gonna check the local library here which has a big "Texas History" section for the book you mentioned. I'm just looking for something that's informative, yet easy to read.
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Steve Lortz
Raf - I think the reviewer (Phil Hall?) got some of the surface impressions right, but his own biases really spoil everything.
The spurious connections he draws between the Alamo and the war in Iraq, and his final sentence, "But then again, when did the general population ever have the courage to accept truth when it was laid in front of them?" reveal more about his own biases than about the movie.
The reviewer considers himself to be superior to the "general population" in his "courage" to "accept truth" when it is laid in front of *him*! Never mind that his perception of "truth" may not actually accord with reality. How wearisomely democratic to have people decide for themselves what they will regard as truth! How uncourageous of them not to accept the truth when I lay it out in front of them.
Love,
Steve
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ex10
Yeah, exactly, Steve.
My Grandma, who I was close to growing up, was a native Texan, and a Texas History buff. She loved the Alamo and the myths and folklore that went along with it. Now that I'm older and she is gone, I really wish I had paid more attention to her stories about her ancestors who fought for Texan Independence and then again in the Civil War. Who knew I would be living in her beloved Texas and feel such a connection to her and her family...
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Steve Lortz
ex10 - God knew! Enjoy!
Love,
Steve
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Steve Lortz
That last sentence from the review of "The Alamo" is still rankling me. Sounds like something "Mike" would write. How could such a sentence ever possibly fit in with a *movie* review? It's not about the movie, it's a statement (made in the form of a rhetorical question) about the supposed attitude of the audience. It actually tells more about the shallow, supercilious attitude of the reviewer than about anything else.
Where was the editor? My Pop would never have let that kind of thing stand in a story one of his reporters had turned in!
Love,
Steve
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Mister P-Mosh
Nope. If I did, I'd play like Happy Gilmore (the best golf movie of all time) except I would never make the ball go anywhere worthwhile.
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