quote:Those are the real questions. Answer those first.
Oak's got a point, Def.
What is a real question?
How do we determine which ones precede others?
and...where is God located?
the heaven/s?
the spiritual realm/s?
ok, then, where are they?
upper space?
outer space?
inner space?
non-space?
if God is everywhere, and always, why should we even be concerned about the distance between us?
what if that distance we perceive is the illusion and the enemy we weep and gnash about?
would not the death of this perception itself be a deliverence thru and thru?
what if this is that very enmity Christ came to remove? the enmity in our self-perception?
after all, even an adversary of our mind's eye is enough bind us as if it was real, no?
its like all of our actions are limited to what we believe in the very heavens of our own heart and soul.
even if its just a splinter in our eye, a small thing will keep us from entering the mind of christ, right? the kingdom of heaven? keeps us from loving the enemy/enmity?
btw - def, not all those questions are for you, directly. just reasoning together. outloud.
If I was standing next to someone, would that mean I am close to that person?
Of course not. Word usage changes depending on context. God's omnipresence does not nullify our ability to be far from him or close to him, just as physical proximity to a human being does not guarantee you are close to that person.
If one thinks of spirits in physical terms, then omnipresence quickly gives way to pantheism. If "God is everywhere," then "God is in everything."
I don't think that's what the Bible teaches. It does say that His eyes are everywhere and that nothing can be hidden from Him. It's not something I can explain to death, but it's not something that ever made me lose much sleep while pondering the philosophical and theological implications, either.
i think the classic "in Him we live and move and have our being" summed it up quite well.
if we are standing next to someone, but are unaware of them being there, we would still believe and think and act as if we are far from them, no?
and i mean, who could blame us for believing so?
even if we were a pimple on God's nose, so to speak, we would still be wondering where He is, in this state (not realizing we are in the surface of His nose. so to speak, and thus, one with Him.)
perhaps its the illusion of enmity that precedes the actual enmity.
enmity behind behaviour.
enmity behind choices.
enmity behind whatever it is one dares to look at.
just as a wonderful illusion of hope must precede an actual manifestation of that hope.
hope behind the behaviour
hope behind the choices
hope behind whatever it is one dares to look at
but also, as we have seen, its gonna take more than any ole story or translation of that divine intersection to shatter that illusion of enmity for us. in fact, some versions just seem to dig us deeper into enmity and seperation from divine possibility.
Isaiah 55:8 -- "For my thoughts _are_ not your thoughts, neither _are_ your ways my ways, saith the LORD." ...and then there is;
John 4:24A -- "God _is_ Spirit".
Define those two statements, and you wouldn't be needing to ask the question! :)-->
_"Ps -- we squabble some."_ Sudo
We need to ask questions. Question all of it. But dmiller you sound like you may have the answers to your questions. If so, speak on.
"Define those two statements, and you wouldn't be needing to ask the question!"
Is that the answer to the subject of this thread? Do you have the definitions or is this an honest question.
God's thoughts are a heart beat away, a breath away. The mind of Christ....it's there...closer than we think. The house of the Lord - where is it? To make our thoughts his thoughts and his ways our ways was done by Jesus Christ. Bind the strong MAN in order to follow the Spirit.
God is Spirit....yup. Never separated from man as we were taught. But a veil between us, ripped from top to bottom by Jesus Christ. The holy of holies door is open. Threading the needle....the eye of the needle...you must make yourself small to enter.
So then God's thoughts are his and not ours, His ways are his and not ours. Should be a good ego killer right!
John 5:19Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.
John 5:30I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
quote: We need to ask questions. Question all of it. But dmiller you sound like you may have the answers to your questions. If so, speak on.
"Define those two statements, and you wouldn't be needing to ask the question!"
Is that the answer to the subject of this thread? Do you have the definitions or is this an honest question.
Vertical --- I have no answers, yet I do still hold the Word in high regard. If it says man is evil -- I believe it, cause it is all around me daily, and in evidence. Do I believe the Word, or what I see happening around me, in daily life?? In this case, I tend to believe the things I see.
However -- when ethereal quesions like this are raised, and there is no *experience* to bank on, I have to defer to that "higher power" -- and what was said.
So --- yes --- it was an honest question/statement.
quote: Here's what happens: While the black hole feasts, a lot of incoming gas is ejected violently back into the galaxy along the black hole's axis of rotation.
hmm, axis of rotation, that is usually where it happens with me too. :P-->
quote: If one thinks of spirits in physical terms, then omnipresence quickly gives way to pantheism. If "God is everywhere," then "God is in everything."
Actually, Raf, I would think the exact opposite should happen. Absolute omnipresence would make it that there really could only be one God. If there is room for another immeasurable god then another god would be possible if not plausible. Also, if one thinks of spirits in terms of the physical thus leading them to pantheaism, and God is omnipresent, thier only sin is in giving physical things spiritual attributes or conversely, giving spritual things physical attributes. Which is all we can do anyway. Hell, if the Bible is the WOG then that is exactly what God does. How can he not? "His ways are not our ways, His thoughts not our thoughts." Condiscensio Anthropopathia, all that.
You'll probably disagree and correct my Greek and Hebrew spelling :)-->, there is one thing we have similar outlooks on though...I won't be loosing any sleep wondering if God is something, everything, or nothing either.
quote:I won't be loosing any sleep wondering if God is something, everything, or nothing either.
yeah, why not just say that God is something, everything, and nothing either and get some Rest in peace. put it to bed. :)-->
quote:Cool SirG, flatulating black holes...
perhaps the saints are laughing and crying because after all their hard work and suffering and living, they found that creation is just one complex evolving series of fart jokes.
quote:A new study reveals that the center of our Milky Way Galaxy is loaded with black holes, as astronomers have expected in recent years. The galactic center is dominated by one supermassive black hole. It packs a mass equal to about 3 million Suns. Around it, scientists have expected to find a high concentration of stellar black holes, the sort that result from the collapse of massive stars. Each can be a few to many times the mass of the Sun.
quote:Strange objects in faraway space known to astronomers only as Giant Galactic Blobs have, upon close inspection, become a lot weirder. The blobs are huge clouds of glowing gas. They've been puzzling astronomers since their discovery five years ago. Researchers discussed new observations of the object here today at a meeting of the American Astronomical Society. NASA's Spitzer Space Telescope, which works like night-vision goggles to detect infrared radiation, peeked inside the blobs to reveal galaxies lurking within. Turns out there are typically two or more galaxies inside a given blob.
now that's gotta at least be a few omni-somethings going on...
same thing going on inside, of course...thru that firmament
a real eye of clarity and thoughtless, honest creativity
we can flee it, get lost in it, or go surfing, i suppose
oceanic ignorance and purity beyond measuring
faceless nameless blameless and void
best seat in the house
lol
:P-->
:D-->
ok, ok. sorry for the limricks guys. its been quite an amazing few days for me. even as the world seems to have picked up its pace on the usual roads to hell. i think i can see why striking up the band on the deck of the titanic might have been a pretty good idea. he he
+ODD I think I am beginning to understand you. :)-->
Sky,
sorry, it's a bit of a conundrum isn't it. It is also a long answer with another answer attached to it.
Simply though, think of our real number system. There is no final number either positive or negative. But if you take the sum of those numbers you get zero. ex. (1 + -1)+(2+ -2)...etc = 0 or (1+2+3...)+ (-1+ -2 + -3)=0
Usually we think of zero as nothing. Everything equaling nothing is mathematically impossible. right?
Well cosmologists and others get around that by creating a new number system, one in which zero does not = nothingness but = the sum of everything. It gets a little complicated, but maybe this will explain to some why SirG is posting links to sites about black holes.
It is a different number system and a different language, really, but in a word you could say that if God is in everything then he exists in nothingness, by existing in everything. Or as +ODD would say "."
Or you could say +ODD =ODD more or less. ;)-->
It is a little paradoxical, I know.
Unfortuanately I don't have the time to answer it more thoroughly. Sorry. You could say I'm a fleeting poster. My logic is "just a passin' thru..." lol
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year2027
God first
Beloved Lindyhopper
Yes God is everything and everywhere
What which is good is that which will God keep and use for his body with Christ being his head body part
What that which is evil will be cast out as watse
Just like we take in food using what we need to build up our bodies and casting out what can not be used
but this is me
with love and an holy kiss blown your way Roy
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sirguessalot
cool. lindy. i think you just bit the t-rex on the weenie...
:D-->
after all, what better view is there than that view from a place of emptiness?
and where is found more clarity and honesty than in the naked pupil of an eye?
oh, speaking of black holes and such...Biggest Space Explosion Creates Giant Bubbles
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def59
Actually Lindy you should be concerned about where you are an in what relation that is to God.
Are you close or far away and why?
Those are the real questions. Answer those first.
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Oakspear
Yeah L-hopper, you questions are fake, get yer soul figgered out!
:D-->
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sirguessalot
Oak's got a point, Def.
What is a real question?
How do we determine which ones precede others?
and...where is God located?
the heaven/s?
the spiritual realm/s?
ok, then, where are they?
upper space?
outer space?
inner space?
non-space?
if God is everywhere, and always, why should we even be concerned about the distance between us?
what if that distance we perceive is the illusion and the enemy we weep and gnash about?
would not the death of this perception itself be a deliverence thru and thru?
what if this is that very enmity Christ came to remove? the enmity in our self-perception?
after all, even an adversary of our mind's eye is enough bind us as if it was real, no?
its like all of our actions are limited to what we believe in the very heavens of our own heart and soul.
even if its just a splinter in our eye, a small thing will keep us from entering the mind of christ, right? the kingdom of heaven? keeps us from loving the enemy/enmity?
btw - def, not all those questions are for you, directly. just reasoning together. outloud.
peace
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Raf
If I was standing next to someone, would that mean I am close to that person?
Of course not. Word usage changes depending on context. God's omnipresence does not nullify our ability to be far from him or close to him, just as physical proximity to a human being does not guarantee you are close to that person.
If one thinks of spirits in physical terms, then omnipresence quickly gives way to pantheism. If "God is everywhere," then "God is in everything."
I don't think that's what the Bible teaches. It does say that His eyes are everywhere and that nothing can be hidden from Him. It's not something I can explain to death, but it's not something that ever made me lose much sleep while pondering the philosophical and theological implications, either.
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sirguessalot
i think the classic "in Him we live and move and have our being" summed it up quite well.
if we are standing next to someone, but are unaware of them being there, we would still believe and think and act as if we are far from them, no?
and i mean, who could blame us for believing so?
even if we were a pimple on God's nose, so to speak, we would still be wondering where He is, in this state (not realizing we are in the surface of His nose. so to speak, and thus, one with Him.)
perhaps its the illusion of enmity that precedes the actual enmity.
enmity behind behaviour.
enmity behind choices.
enmity behind whatever it is one dares to look at.
just as a wonderful illusion of hope must precede an actual manifestation of that hope.
hope behind the behaviour
hope behind the choices
hope behind whatever it is one dares to look at
but also, as we have seen, its gonna take more than any ole story or translation of that divine intersection to shatter that illusion of enmity for us. in fact, some versions just seem to dig us deeper into enmity and seperation from divine possibility.
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Vertical Limit
illusion, perception,
A matter of how we see things.
A reality none the less.
For in it lies our belief and faith.
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Vertical Limit
Let's say you were standing next to some one that you want to be close to. What would it take to do that?
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dmiller
Isaiah 55:8 -- "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD." ...and then there is;
John 4:24A -- "God is Spirit".
Define those two statements, and you wouldn't be needing to ask the question!
:)-->
"Ps -- we squabble some." Sudo
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Vertical Limit
We need to ask questions. Question all of it. But dmiller you sound like you may have the answers to your questions. If so, speak on.
"Define those two statements, and you wouldn't be needing to ask the question!"
Is that the answer to the subject of this thread? Do you have the definitions or is this an honest question.
God's thoughts are a heart beat away, a breath away. The mind of Christ....it's there...closer than we think. The house of the Lord - where is it? To make our thoughts his thoughts and his ways our ways was done by Jesus Christ. Bind the strong MAN in order to follow the Spirit.
God is Spirit....yup. Never separated from man as we were taught. But a veil between us, ripped from top to bottom by Jesus Christ. The holy of holies door is open. Threading the needle....the eye of the needle...you must make yourself small to enter.
So then God's thoughts are his and not ours, His ways are his and not ours. Should be a good ego killer right!
John 5:19Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.
John 5:30I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
Does that help?
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Raf
I find a shot of Jager usually does the trick.
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Vertical Limit
lol - yeah that would work.
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
all i know is when i crank my my harley and it sputters oil and AMC is involved and spaces inbetween and that type of thing~~~ etc
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dmiller
Vertical --- I have no answers, yet I do still hold the Word in high regard. If it says man is evil -- I believe it, cause it is all around me daily, and in evidence. Do I believe the Word, or what I see happening around me, in daily life?? In this case, I tend to believe the things I see.
However -- when ethereal quesions like this are raised, and there is no *experience* to bank on, I have to defer to that "higher power" -- and what was said.
So --- yes --- it was an honest question/statement.
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lindyhopper
Cool SirG, flatulating black holes...
hmm, axis of rotation, that is usually where it happens with me too.
:P-->
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lindyhopper
Actually, Raf, I would think the exact opposite should happen. Absolute omnipresence would make it that there really could only be one God. If there is room for another immeasurable god then another god would be possible if not plausible. Also, if one thinks of spirits in terms of the physical thus leading them to pantheaism, and God is omnipresent, thier only sin is in giving physical things spiritual attributes or conversely, giving spritual things physical attributes. Which is all we can do anyway. Hell, if the Bible is the WOG then that is exactly what God does. How can he not? "His ways are not our ways, His thoughts not our thoughts." Condiscensio Anthropopathia, all that.
You'll probably disagree and correct my Greek and Hebrew spelling
:)-->, there is one thing we have similar outlooks on though...I won't be loosing any sleep wondering if God is something, everything, or nothing either. 
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sirguessalot
yeah, why not just say that God is something, everything, and nothing either and get some Rest in peace. put it to bed.
:)-->
perhaps the saints are laughing and crying because after all their hard work and suffering and living, they found that creation is just one complex evolving series of fart jokes.
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Vertical Limit
Sooooo.....dmiller, did what I say help you any?
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dmiller
Yes it did. Thanks.
:)-->
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sky4it
lindy your commment;
If something is everything, it can also be said that it is nothing.
You lost me lindy. So if there is awareness then awareness can be said to unaware also. Fleeting logic.
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sirguessalot
the just love Dave Matthews music...
the space be tween...
Milky Way's Center Packed with Black Holes
Strange Space Blobs Get More Mysterious
now that's gotta at least be a few omni-somethings going on...
same thing going on inside, of course...thru that firmament
a real eye of clarity and thoughtless, honest creativity
we can flee it, get lost in it, or go surfing, i suppose
oceanic ignorance and purity beyond measuring
faceless nameless blameless and void
best seat in the house
lol
ok, ok. sorry for the limricks guys. its been quite an amazing few days for me. even as the world seems to have picked up its pace on the usual roads to hell. i think i can see why striking up the band on the deck of the titanic might have been a pretty good idea. he he
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
omnipresence = omninonpresence
omni goes with everything
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lindyhopper
Song,
LOL
nice!
+ODD I think I am beginning to understand you.
:)-->
Sky,
sorry, it's a bit of a conundrum isn't it. It is also a long answer with another answer attached to it.
Simply though, think of our real number system. There is no final number either positive or negative. But if you take the sum of those numbers you get zero. ex. (1 + -1)+(2+ -2)...etc = 0 or (1+2+3...)+ (-1+ -2 + -3)=0
Usually we think of zero as nothing. Everything equaling nothing is mathematically impossible. right?
Well cosmologists and others get around that by creating a new number system, one in which zero does not = nothingness but = the sum of everything. It gets a little complicated, but maybe this will explain to some why SirG is posting links to sites about black holes.
It is a different number system and a different language, really, but in a word you could say that if God is in everything then he exists in nothingness, by existing in everything. Or as +ODD would say "."
Or you could say +ODD =ODD more or less.
;)-->
It is a little paradoxical, I know.
Unfortuanately I don't have the time to answer it more thoroughly. Sorry. You could say I'm a fleeting poster. My logic is "just a passin' thru..." lol
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