"Food for Thought" - Original Sin

[CM]

2 Corinthians 11

10As the truth of Christ is in me, no man shall stop me of this boasting in the regions of Achaia. 11Wherefore? because I love you not? God knoweth. 12But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we. 13For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. 14And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 15Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion

desire

GK - 2527 { qevlw }

1) to will, have in mind, intend

1a) to be resolved or determined, to purpose

1b) to desire, to wish

1c) to love

1c1) to like to do a thing, be fond of doing

1d) to take delight in, have pleasure

occasion -

GK - 929 { ajformhv }

1) a place from which a movement or attack is made, a base of operations

2) metaph. that by which endeavour is excited and from which it goes forth

2a) that which gives occasion and supplies matter for an undertaking, the incentive

2b) the resources we avail ourselves of in attempting or performing anything

that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we.

Paul's bringing about this change by "But what I do, that I will do"

results-

13For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.

14And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

15Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

Paul takes this "place from which a movement or attack is made, a base of operations" or "that which gives occasion and supplies matter for an undertaking, the incentive" to preach the gospel of God freely. And turns things around or rather straightens em up.

As God told Moses to grab the serpent by the tail and it changed back into a rod.

11Wherefore? because I love you not? God knoweth.

that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we

Edited May 22, 2005 by CM

[CM]

you guys probably think i'm crazy...

no matter-just a different look at some of these things..

[CM]

When we look for truth along the bloody trail of the heretics what they said needs to be harmonized with the words about and from the chief heretic, Jesus Christ. In of itself, being labeled a heretic does not guarantee the truth of the entire message or even any part of it. If the message of the heretic does harmonize with scripture then we have truth. Martin Luther was considered a heretic by the then established church because he proclaimed that justification came by faith rather than works. It became evident from scripture that his words on the subject, in the end, were true. It was fortunate that he was given the time to develop his message and the means to make it known to a large number of hearers; otherwise, he and his message, as others were, could have been swept under the rug of personal destruction so that we all could still be paying the church to justify our dead family members.

I'll take the heretic label anyday...

[CM]

Genesis 2:16And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: 17But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

so what died.....

and this was before the woman

was taken out of man

he told them...

that great union of the

father and the spirit,

not spirit

they were both still breathing

And the eyes of them both were opened,

and they knew that they were naked

and Adam and his wife hid themselves from

the presence of the LORD God

And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden,

and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I

hid myself

the greatness of it had been lost

split apart and died

the serpent on a rock

but the eyes of them both were opened

then there remains the way of the tree of life

with a flaming sword that turns every way...

perhaps we will never see the full greatness of it

till unto dust shalt thou return and the

spirit/soul goes back to God who gave it

I am the way the truth and the life-Christ

I and my Father are one

he-jesus did it, took on the Christ

survived the wilderness for 40 days

did what God said he would do

paid for that death for all

pulled that sword out of the way

redeemed adam and eve

and the rest of us too....

going to be better in the new heavens and earth....

[CM]

now that i've got the southern baptist out of me on this... :D-->

Let's look at this dude again...

i think this is a good representation of every individual...everyone with their own personal things involved

everyone is unique i believe

[TheInvisibleDan]

That is a pretty cool symbol, CM.

[CM]

As sand thru the hour glass

so are the days of our lives

wait a sec-different story.. :)-->

ok-here's some links on things made

http://educate.si.edu/resources/lessons/si...llen/start.html

http://koning.ecsu.ctstateu.edu/Plants_Hum...ollenadapt.html

http://koning.ecsu.ctstateu.edu/Plants_Hum...ollenadapt.html

http://school.discovery.com/lessonplans/pr...lc-butterflies/

http://www.urbanext.uiuc.edu/gpe/index.html

thought that may apply remotely...

[Abigail]

Some scattered thoughts . . . . .

The serpent was equated with wisdom in religions which may very well predate Judaism and Christianity.

The serpent (wisdom) encouraged Eve to eat of the fruit at would make her like god(s).

Moses carried a staff made to look like a serpent (as druids would perhaps have likewise done).

The people eventually came to worship Moses serpentine shaped staff after it was placed in the temple.

Beyond the "laws" the Jewish view of God has always been vastly different from sect to sect, even throughout biblical history and often included the worship of a goddess and/or other gods.

The Prophets often reproved the Jews for their worship of idols and other gods. Yet the only time in all of history that massive numbers of jews worshipped in similar fashion would have been under the Sanhedrin in the days of Jesus. And what did Jesus do? He did away with their laws.

[Abigail]

It has been my experience that organized religions often want to keep people ignorant. They don't want them to learn about and/or accept views outside of their own doctrine. They want to keep people unlearned, unwise. . .

[CM]

when God created man and woman in his own image

before woman was taken out of man

it was Christ the son of God

"before Abraham I was" said the Christ

when did it split apart and why?

the results are "bringing many sons to glory"

[Abigail]

Jewish lore has it that Lilith was Adam's first wife. However, she did not want to be submissive, but equal with Adam. The two fought and Lilith left. God then put Adam into a sleep and made Eve from Adam.

Could then, the children of Adam and Eve have paired off with the children of Lilith and Eve?

[def59]

It has been my post-Twi experience that organized religion thrives when people are open to education and critical thinking. I have been encouraged to puruse logic and other avenues of looking at the Bible, that TWI would have called devilish.

Abi, it may be the particular religions (sects) you have met that have these views. Not all are the same.

[CM]

The wisdom of the world compared to the wisdom of christ. Wisdom that is beyond wisdom. Truth that cuts 2 ways. To reject a religous belief is not wise. Incorparate it into the mind of Christ.

Critacal thinking as compared to what-spiritual?

Yes Def critical thinking has it's place but cannot be relyed on for truth. It leads to truth by common sense. The truth is and will fit within common sense. The truth is beyond critical thinking.

[CWF]

The spirit supersedes the natural.

The spiritual explains the natural.

With most minds, it's the other way around which is why the world is so mixed up.