TWI used fear to control people in dramatic ways such as "...grease spot by midnight...",fear of death.
"... God won't even spit in your direction..." fear of an omnipotent God that can hoc a wad of holy expectoration :D--> .
"...The Adversary has a price on your head..." compliment Allen Licht to TWI Co's, fear a bounty hunter that will off with your head unless ya stand upon the Word, The etc ad infinutum nauseum.
"...The reason your child was still born was your fear...", I suppose God hocked a Holy Phlegm our direction.
"... it was fear that killed that boy...", condemnation and contradictory that day the alcholic came to VP's back pews and the "...I rarely get on my knees and pray..." etc his horse dung a claim to never preach another negative sermon and the rest of the revelation he received that fine day. Damn he must have been TWIrling around in that leather bound chair and then fell on his knees. Of course a little half pint in that desk drawer must have greased those pipe lines of snake oil thought, escuse me, revelation and an "...audible voice as plainly as I am speaking to you now..."
Well lindyhopper, it's a late time o night~~~ I will continue this response to you concerning the rest of your story. It is certainly quite an adrenaline rush fer sure an experience of fear.
The believing = receiving and fear is negative believing theology of TWI, had curious parallels with Oral Roberts seed faith and the name it and claim it theologists of the time. Curiously some of this exists today with some televangelists who ask you to send your 50 buck seed money.
TWI had to massacre the book of Job to get it done. None of this ever takes into account, "you ask that you may consume it upon your lusts." Needs that aren't scrutinized with the cross, can become consumption of your lusts. This is why TWI never loved the cross. The crux of Christianity will always be the simplicity of the cross. IMO, one of the most successful Christian lives of our time, Sadhu Sundhar Sing, had a fully incorporated sense of the cross, so much so that he said the 'cross' was his greatest instrument of life.
Ahh fellow posters this thread, forgive me for being such a host that I did not respond so ready or even soulfull consideration your replys. Ahh, nay not that I was so busy clearing my tub's outlet mine long hair that I stood in a puddle of soapy water, but rather I did consider a sabbatical worthy such thought as, "What is Truth?" And then there appeared quite a dilemma if I should stay or should I go when I posted In About The Way my thread "Later for a While."
Oh well, I suppose my confondre was more than I could leave such good company. And here I suppose I should stay for a while more.
quote:DrtyDzn
posted November 03, 2004 06:56
There have been given a number of answers to your question.
Answers are one thing and speculation is another and experiences are another thing and Truth is absolute undeniable proof of itself. Such as gravity, water, all the ectcedras as was once thought as truth; the world was flat and the earth was the centre of the universe only to find out that our sun was the centre of the universe only to find out we our solar system is on the edge of The Milky Way Galaxy~~~ and there is matter and anti matter and a voice from the Big Ole Banger, a voice, so to speak.
So, the number of answers that have been given/presented does answer, "What Is Truth?"??? ~~~ or just a NUMBer of answers to one single QUESTion? I suppose a resolve should be the "theory of everything"? Many a few are proposing such an inquiry and have discovered many a thing beyound faith. EG: This terra firma we stand 'pon is not the centre of the universe.
quote:sky4it
posted November 03, 2004 13:10
drty dzn: and song
thy commentary:
I've heard it said that the truth hurts
But ...., "by mercy and truth iniquity is purged" - proverbs (not confuscious)
mercy , me thinks , makes the truth embraceable
grace empowers us to do it
love is the end result.
Your right tho, Twi stuff really hurt, it was merciless
song:
thy stuff:
Is there no resovle this honesty of question What is truth?
Why? Are you not Free?
sky4it , if the truth shall make you free then ya shall be free indeed. Hence my QUESTion this thread that is in no way original.
Pilate had the privilege JC before him and asked the QUESTion, "What is Truth?" JC did not respond according to biblical stuff!
Am I free? Yeah, got a whole ocean front called the Atlantic and much sand the toes the front o me feet. I can only wonder thoughts those Natives before me.
But ...., "by mercy and truth iniquity is purged" - proverbs (not confuscious)
mercy , me thinks , makes the truth embraceable
grace empowers us to do it
love is the end result.
Your right tho, Twi stuff really hurt, it was merciless
song:
thy stuff:
Is there no resovle this honesty of question What is truth?
Why? Are you not Free? I]
There is a peice of the Atlantic Ocean before my toes in the sand and causes me to wonder those that were here before me, such as the Native Indians, what FREEDOM they thought and saw~~~
Speak to me of summer, long winters longer than time can remember,
The setting up of other roads, to travel on in old accustomed ways.
I still remember the talks by the water, the proud sons and daughter that,
Knew the knowledge of the land, that spoke to me in sweet accustomed ways.
RE: PERFECT LOVE. If perfect love casts out fear, then perfect love and fear can co-exist. But the perfect love would cast out the fear. For the casting out to work, both perfect love and fear would have to be present, at least temporarily. It doesn't say that perfect love replaces fear, but it casts it out.
RE: LAW OF BELIEVING. For believing to be a law, it would have to work every time. Yet, in PFAL, there were conditions put on believing. In order to receive something from God, a person must believe without any doubt whatsoever. Thus, believing would not be a law but without doubt may be considered a law. Yet, Jesus told people they have not, because they ask amiss, or ask for the wrong reasons. Thus believing must be without doubt and for Godly purposes. Yet, other times in the Word, God simply provides for people, whether they believed for something to have or not. Thus, receiving can occur without believing. There are many records where people weren't expecting something to happen but it did anyway. Did Job really expect to get back everything he had lost, regarding family and possessions? He had just endured a long period of nearly-fatal illness, poverty, grief, and heartache. Did he believeto get everything. There is no indication that he did. Thus, believing does not necessarily equate to or automatically appropriate receiving. In order for believing to be a law, there would have to be a direct correlation between believing and receiving and there is not. Our believing is in God. We don't have to believe for red drapes. We simply trust God. The connection between believing and receiving is God, who is the provider.
So, in other words, there is no law of believing, and believing does not necessarily equal receiving.
If there is a LAW, it would be that God is always faithful to his promises. A law of faith might be a better description of it.
It isn't always bad, in and of itself. It is how you react. It hightens your senses to notice what is going on. I guess you could say that you either allow it to help you see the truth at times, or it blinds you of the truth. It depends on how you let it affect you.
Examples you ask? OK
The postage stamp. Not the ones you put on a letter, but a giant rock in the middle of the Gauley River. The Gauley River is a class 4-5 River. That means it can get scarey. Before one of the worst shoots, our guide asked if we wanted to do the postage stamp. He explained that it was a giant rock at the bottom of the run and if you hit it right the water would plaster our boat horizontally on the rock. Those on the high side would jump out onto the rock, while those on the low side would stand straight up against the now sideways raft. Once on the rock, the high side guys would grab the low side folks and pul them up and then we'd pull the boat up onto the rock. Then everyone around watching on the shore or down river would cheer.
This was a BIG rock with potentially big consiquences if you fell out. Like getting sucked into a small swireling shoot on the right and/or getting sucked down benieth huge undercut rocks, getting smashed against one of those rocks etc. etc..
There was fear. I noticed the rapids all around us, all the huge rocks, where you wouldn't want to go (not that you would have much choice, I listened for the guides calls/instructions more intensely, and did everything I could do individually as a team member to stay in that damn raft.
When we hit that rock the boat went skyward. Being on the high side I leaned back and jumped onto the top of the rock. On the low side there was my futute wife looking up at me with her arm stretched out toward me. With one arm on the raft I lifted her up five feet with one arm onto the rock. A feat I wouln't have been able to do. With everyone (but two that fell in) we lifted the raft onto the rock and the crowd went wild. We were one of two, out of 30 or more crews that tried it that day, to make it up.
Fear played a part in that addventure. It told me to hold up and think about this and make myself aware of the things going on around me. It gave me that spike of adrenaline to make it thru safely and to hoist my lady up and out of harms way. (So macho, LOL) But it was how I used that fear to my advantage that mattered most. If I did it again I would be afraid again, because you just don't know what might happen.
Fear paralized one of our crew members that day. Later on the video you could see how he paused when we hit that rock and that coused him to fall back into the water. He clung to the side of the raft untill he couldn't hold on anylonger. The force of the water was too great and he was to low for his partner to reach him. He went into the water on the worst side and was sucked under a rock and was shot 30 feet down river. He was shocked and startled and a little out of breath but he came out fine.
The truth was revealed in each moment as we were forced down the river. If we did what we knew we needed to do, we could do it...if we didn't, we couldn't. I don't know where love fits into these types of stories, other than I LOVE not falling in a raging river. I think most of the time in life fear is like what we experience that day. It is not about acting out of love or reacting knowing someone loves you, or someone yelling at you later for doing the wrong thing, or doing something or not doing something because if you don't they won't love you anymore or treat you the same way anymore. It is something that makes you think. Then it is up to you how you react to that fear. In that reaction is where the truth lies. The nice thing about that is if you don't like it you can change next time and the truth will change forever.
To try and prove any other truth will require more than guessing, hoping, postulating, and faith. For all those things are suspended untill the moment of truth arives.
HEED! Pants, now!
lindyhopper!!! woah!!! That was certainly a Zane Grey adventure fer sure!!!
song
"...that experience is an excellent dine a moment of life..."
quote: Song, the reason I answered your question with my questions is NOT because I wanted to know what your response would be. I already knew that. I just wanted YOU to know what your response would be. And of course, that’s precisely why you didn’t answer me.
So, like you answered the question you posed to me for me, I will answer the questions I posed to you for us all.
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sky4it
drty dzn: and song
thy commentary:
I've heard it said that the truth hurts
But ...., "by mercy and truth iniquity is purged" - proverbs (not confuscious)
mercy , me thinks , makes the truth embraceable
grace empowers us to do it
love is the end result.
Your right tho, Twi stuff really hurt, it was merciless
song:
thy stuff:
Is there no resovle this honesty of question What is truth?
Why? Are you not Free?
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
Absolutely correct lindyhopper.
TWI used fear to control people in dramatic ways such as "...grease spot by midnight...",fear of death.
"... God won't even spit in your direction..." fear of an omnipotent God that can hoc a wad of holy expectoration
:D--> .
"...The Adversary has a price on your head..." compliment Allen Licht to TWI Co's, fear a bounty hunter that will off with your head unless ya stand upon the Word, The etc ad infinutum nauseum.
"...The reason your child was still born was your fear...", I suppose God hocked a Holy Phlegm our direction.
"... it was fear that killed that boy...", condemnation and contradictory that day the alcholic came to VP's back pews and the "...I rarely get on my knees and pray..." etc his horse dung a claim to never preach another negative sermon and the rest of the revelation he received that fine day. Damn he must have been TWIrling around in that leather bound chair and then fell on his knees. Of course a little half pint in that desk drawer must have greased those pipe lines of snake oil thought, escuse me, revelation and an "...audible voice as plainly as I am speaking to you now..."
Well lindyhopper, it's a late time o night~~~ I will continue this response to you concerning the rest of your story. It is certainly quite an adrenaline rush fer sure an experience of fear.
Rok On
Song
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sky4it
The believing = receiving and fear is negative believing theology of TWI, had curious parallels with Oral Roberts seed faith and the name it and claim it theologists of the time. Curiously some of this exists today with some televangelists who ask you to send your 50 buck seed money.
TWI had to massacre the book of Job to get it done. None of this ever takes into account, "you ask that you may consume it upon your lusts." Needs that aren't scrutinized with the cross, can become consumption of your lusts. This is why TWI never loved the cross. The crux of Christianity will always be the simplicity of the cross. IMO, one of the most successful Christian lives of our time, Sadhu Sundhar Sing, had a fully incorporated sense of the cross, so much so that he said the 'cross' was his greatest instrument of life.
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
Mother life, hold firmly on to me.
Catch my knowledge higher than the day.
Lose as much as only you can show.
Though you've seen them, please don't say a word.
What I don't know, I have never shared.
Yes
Ahh fellow posters this thread, forgive me for being such a host that I did not respond so ready or even soulfull consideration your replys. Ahh, nay not that I was so busy clearing my tub's outlet mine long hair that I stood in a puddle of soapy water, but rather I did consider a sabbatical worthy such thought as, "What is Truth?" And then there appeared quite a dilemma if I should stay or should I go when I posted In About The Way my thread "Later for a While."
Oh well, I suppose my confondre was more than I could leave such good company. And here I suppose I should stay for a while more.
Answers are one thing and speculation is another and experiences are another thing and Truth is absolute undeniable proof of itself. Such as gravity, water, all the ectcedras as was once thought as truth; the world was flat and the earth was the centre of the universe only to find out that our sun was the centre of the universe only to find out we our solar system is on the edge of The Milky Way Galaxy~~~ and there is matter and anti matter and a voice from the Big Ole Banger, a voice, so to speak.
So, the number of answers that have been given/presented does answer, "What Is Truth?"??? ~~~ or just a NUMBer of answers to one single QUESTion? I suppose a resolve should be the "theory of everything"? Many a few are proposing such an inquiry and have discovered many a thing beyound faith. EG: This terra firma we stand 'pon is not the centre of the universe.
sky4it , if the truth shall make you free then ya shall be free indeed. Hence my QUESTion this thread that is in no way original.
Pilate had the privilege JC before him and asked the QUESTion, "What is Truth?" JC did not respond according to biblical stuff!
Am I free? Yeah, got a whole ocean front called the Atlantic and much sand the toes the front o me feet. I can only wonder thoughts those Natives before me.
Registered: July 18, 2004
Posts: 376
posted November 03, 2004 13:10
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
drty dzn: and song
thy commentary:
I've heard it said that the truth hurts
But ...., "by mercy and truth iniquity is purged" - proverbs (not confuscious)
mercy , me thinks , makes the truth embraceable
grace empowers us to do it
love is the end result.
Your right tho, Twi stuff really hurt, it was merciless
song:
thy stuff:
Is there no resovle this honesty of question What is truth?
Why? Are you not Free? I]
There is a peice of the Atlantic Ocean before my toes in the sand and causes me to wonder those that were here before me, such as the Native Indians, what FREEDOM they thought and saw~~~
Speak to me of summer, long winters longer than time can remember,
The setting up of other roads, to travel on in old accustomed ways.
I still remember the talks by the water, the proud sons and daughter that,
Knew the knowledge of the land, that spoke to me in sweet accustomed ways.
Mother life, hold firmly on to me.
yes
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Biblefan Dave
RE: PERFECT LOVE. If perfect love casts out fear, then perfect love and fear can co-exist. But the perfect love would cast out the fear. For the casting out to work, both perfect love and fear would have to be present, at least temporarily. It doesn't say that perfect love replaces fear, but it casts it out.
RE: LAW OF BELIEVING. For believing to be a law, it would have to work every time. Yet, in PFAL, there were conditions put on believing. In order to receive something from God, a person must believe without any doubt whatsoever. Thus, believing would not be a law but without doubt may be considered a law. Yet, Jesus told people they have not, because they ask amiss, or ask for the wrong reasons. Thus believing must be without doubt and for Godly purposes. Yet, other times in the Word, God simply provides for people, whether they believed for something to have or not. Thus, receiving can occur without believing. There are many records where people weren't expecting something to happen but it did anyway. Did Job really expect to get back everything he had lost, regarding family and possessions? He had just endured a long period of nearly-fatal illness, poverty, grief, and heartache. Did he believeto get everything. There is no indication that he did. Thus, believing does not necessarily equate to or automatically appropriate receiving. In order for believing to be a law, there would have to be a direct correlation between believing and receiving and there is not. Our believing is in God. We don't have to believe for red drapes. We simply trust God. The connection between believing and receiving is God, who is the provider.
So, in other words, there is no law of believing, and believing does not necessarily equal receiving.
If there is a LAW, it would be that God is always faithful to his promises. A law of faith might be a better description of it.
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
Our believing is in God. We don't have to believe for red drapes.
"who is the "our"& "we"?
We simply trust God. The connection between believing and receiving is God, who is the provider.
I would say
"I believe in God.
I don't have to believe in red drapes.
I simply trust in God~~~
Rok
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lindyhopper
posted October 22, 2004 02:14
I think TWI gave fear a bad rap.
It isn't always bad, in and of itself. It is how you react. It hightens your senses to notice what is going on. I guess you could say that you either allow it to help you see the truth at times, or it blinds you of the truth. It depends on how you let it affect you.
Examples you ask? OK
The postage stamp. Not the ones you put on a letter, but a giant rock in the middle of the Gauley River. The Gauley River is a class 4-5 River. That means it can get scarey. Before one of the worst shoots, our guide asked if we wanted to do the postage stamp. He explained that it was a giant rock at the bottom of the run and if you hit it right the water would plaster our boat horizontally on the rock. Those on the high side would jump out onto the rock, while those on the low side would stand straight up against the now sideways raft. Once on the rock, the high side guys would grab the low side folks and pul them up and then we'd pull the boat up onto the rock. Then everyone around watching on the shore or down river would cheer.
This was a BIG rock with potentially big consiquences if you fell out. Like getting sucked into a small swireling shoot on the right and/or getting sucked down benieth huge undercut rocks, getting smashed against one of those rocks etc. etc..
There was fear. I noticed the rapids all around us, all the huge rocks, where you wouldn't want to go (not that you would have much choice, I listened for the guides calls/instructions more intensely, and did everything I could do individually as a team member to stay in that damn raft.
When we hit that rock the boat went skyward. Being on the high side I leaned back and jumped onto the top of the rock. On the low side there was my futute wife looking up at me with her arm stretched out toward me. With one arm on the raft I lifted her up five feet with one arm onto the rock. A feat I wouln't have been able to do. With everyone (but two that fell in) we lifted the raft onto the rock and the crowd went wild. We were one of two, out of 30 or more crews that tried it that day, to make it up.
Fear played a part in that addventure. It told me to hold up and think about this and make myself aware of the things going on around me. It gave me that spike of adrenaline to make it thru safely and to hoist my lady up and out of harms way. (So macho, LOL) But it was how I used that fear to my advantage that mattered most. If I did it again I would be afraid again, because you just don't know what might happen.
Fear paralized one of our crew members that day. Later on the video you could see how he paused when we hit that rock and that coused him to fall back into the water. He clung to the side of the raft untill he couldn't hold on anylonger. The force of the water was too great and he was to low for his partner to reach him. He went into the water on the worst side and was sucked under a rock and was shot 30 feet down river. He was shocked and startled and a little out of breath but he came out fine.
The truth was revealed in each moment as we were forced down the river. If we did what we knew we needed to do, we could do it...if we didn't, we couldn't. I don't know where love fits into these types of stories, other than I LOVE not falling in a raging river. I think most of the time in life fear is like what we experience that day. It is not about acting out of love or reacting knowing someone loves you, or someone yelling at you later for doing the wrong thing, or doing something or not doing something because if you don't they won't love you anymore or treat you the same way anymore. It is something that makes you think. Then it is up to you how you react to that fear. In that reaction is where the truth lies. The nice thing about that is if you don't like it you can change next time and the truth will change forever.
To try and prove any other truth will require more than guessing, hoping, postulating, and faith. For all those things are suspended untill the moment of truth arives.
HEED! Pants, now!
lindyhopper!!! woah!!! That was certainly a Zane Grey adventure fer sure!!!
song
"...that experience is an excellent dine a moment of life..."
author unknown
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
listen
mike will speak
Edited by oneyedjackswild1 psLink to comment
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
PFALMIKE is to be played at a theatre near you.
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