with respect to the Word of God is the Will of God, it was the most absolute statement, which one could not reasonably disagree with. The problem still remained , what was the word of God?
Words which only VPW could "rightly divide" became the logical conclusion. And thus this oxymoron, became the proverb for closing off ones mind to God. Furthermore, truth is emodied in a person, Jesus Christ. You cannot illustrate through simple paradigms of speech, all the reactions any person can have to any event. Why? Because there are billions of situations all with differing circumstances. Therefore the Word of God, or truth must be applicational, not rubber stamped. Interesting that the Word of God is exactly that. Words which can be applied in varying degrees and emphasis to literally billions of situations.
That phrase, within the Way context, tended to produce as many if not more Bible-worshippers and doctrine cops, than actual Christians.
It's hardly a phrase which sheds any discernment or enlightenment concerning the heart of God.
And like twi - it leaves Christ out of the equation. Salvation now becomes determined by a supposed perfect book - not a spiritual Saviour.
Nope. I no longer even agree with twi on that.
once again, I absolutely agree with you. Interesting, that even Biblically, the term will of God
and an event is only referenced to "santification" and abstainence from fornication, and being in control of ones own body or soul. Moreover, the control is relegated to the person himself, not some cheesy doctrine. How refreshing.
To every man his own truth and his own God within.
Yo Abigail,
Your first statement, i will take as a reply this thread.
Your second statement, i will take as a signature.
So i will reply to your first statement.
But both seem to say the same thing.
I think.
This is a goldmine of thought to dig.
How about ~~~You thought, therefore you thunk you thought, therefore you are not, because you think you are thinking you think you are, BUT if you thought I was as I think you thought, then I think you thought i am, therefore you are thinking about what i thought... Who's on first~~~
quote: Therefore the Word of God, or truth must be applicational, not rubber stamped. Interesting that the Word of God is exactly that. Words which can be applied in varying degrees and emphasis to literally billions of situations.
What is the "Word of God"? Are ya talkn Bible? "Billions of situations" is less than trillions of situations and eternity is more than forever.
quote: And like twi - it leaves Christ out of the equation. Salvation now becomes determined by a supposed perfect book - not a spiritual Saviour.
Sometimes I wonder when folks refer to scripture seeing that there is many mucho more scripture than the bible considering that Christainty is an Eastern Religion.
quote: And like twi - it leaves Christ out of the equation. Salvation now becomes determined by a supposed perfect book - not a spiritual Saviour.
What is "the equation"?
quote:... actual Christians...
What are "actual Christians" ?
Wtf, you want an "exhausted translation according to fuselage"?
oh, alright...
quote: And like twi [=the Way International -a crappy little loser cult with its headquarters located in the middle of a hay field in Ohio] - it [ =the phrase, "The Word of God is the Will of God"] leaves [or leaves out, forsakes, spares, omits] Christ [ be it a historical, spiritual or mythological divine being]out [or outside] of the equation [or, the logic underlying the hook phrase "The Word of GOd is the Will of God"]. Salvation now becomes determined by a supposed perfect book - not a spiritual Saviour.
"actual Christians" ? - from my puny perspective, anyone who takes to heart a few things from Jesus' "Sermon on the Mount" and
endeavors to treat other fellow human beings with kindness and respect.
Shoot, I even regard my own agnostic brother a better and truer "Christian" than myself (and other self-proclaimed "Christians" I've seen over the years) from the manner in which he goes out his way to help others less fortunate than himself.
But that's only my personal opinion...
As to what "truth" is - my concerns tend to have more to do with choosing candidates at the moment than with religion or mythology. Who the heck knows what the "truth" is there...
Shoot, I even regard my own agnostic brother a better and truer "Christian" than myself (and other self-proclaimed "Christians" I've seen over the years) from the manner in which he goes out his way to help others less fortunate than himself.
Interesting comment Dan. I know this Doctor, who has a astronomical IQ. He is a Christian Scientist who has problems with the concept of "original sin" and other more mainstream Christian doctrines. Yet, I have never known a person, who walks and lives according to the gospel more than this guy. This man is worry free, because intellectully, he feels that worry or obsessing over problems has no possible benefit, so he doesnt do it. If that aint faith in God, I dont know what is. Interesting that the Apostle Paul, said God judges those who dont know the law or the gospel with there conscience. (The law that is given by birth in a persons heart) I also am amazed at the many whose deeds speak nothing as to what they say and know by doctrines, and those whose deeds speak volumes of what they don't need to know. Proving yet again, that hearing "the truth", doesnt have to be all that "perfect in doctrinal form." Thank you.
The truth is that which, when you quit believing in it, doesn't go away...
Amen brother, preach it, because the contradiction is if it doesnt go away , you still believe it. You cant run away from the truth. One can only hide or decieve himself as to its existence.
I stopped believing in mystical guidance from unseen sources, and lo and behold, I suddenly realized that all those "revelations" I got while a practicing Christian had a much more mundane and "senses world" explanation. Same with the "miraculous" healings, warm and fuzzy feelings of being "in fellowship" and being part of "the family of God". The feelings went away and so did any evidence of a magical holy thunderer with His hand on the controls of life.
OTOH, when I quit believing in gravity, I was rudely awakened to the fact that it did, indeed, still function quite well...
Lourdy have the mercy that we could hang out tossing marbles our thoughts truth ~~~ this thread is a continuation since "What Is Truth" .
been so since, let'st just go back to Eve & Adam
hmmm... i would hope none of us is truly the enlightened ones with smirk invisible knowlege.
I have yet seen nothing more than recorded history many an experience the divine that proves nothing more than that which we see ourselfs this day and time.
oh well as others , i only have so many years to consider the, What Is Truth...
OTOH, when I quit believing in gravity, I was rudely awakened to the fact that it did, indeed, still function quite well...
Its ok with me too geo, if you dont want to believe in gravity, because that too in fact is the truth. Gravity exists in different proportions in different planets and in fact in some places it may not exist at all cause we dont know. Even the laws of physics may one day cease to exists we dont know. An investment in the laws of physics, may not be all that productive because we dont know what God created or will create beyond that.
There are for sure three things that are eternal. Faith, hope and love. The truth that God made love the ruling charicteristic for all eternity is reassuring. The fact that faith is eternal, in my view tells us we may not be able to ever know all there is to know about creation. His character, however, is unwavering in that what ever he does will be done with love.
Therefore we always have hope. Love isnt always warm and giggly, sometimes its a swift kick in the you know what. Thats kinda reassuring also isnt it? For who would want or could believe in a God who was just a bunch of warm fuzzies with an ever diminishing feeling that that isnt love at all. Love, I think is the most misabused word ever. We know what the porn stars think it is, we know what divorcing spouses think it is, and yes we know what evil lords of religion think it is who abuse people in the name of love. Personally, I think God himself is the only one who has a handle on it, because we are all capable of abusing one another. God's essence: Uncomprimising love, no matter what we "think is right."
You know Geo, I always have to try and stir your drink.
You used reassuring a couple of times there. That's what its all about. Hope is reassuring. It helps us imagine that things will get better, death is not the end of life, there really is a God and He always loves me even when I'm a retard.
Faith is reassuring. It is really just another word for hope, but it sounds better when refering to beliefs. "I hope there's a God" just doesn't sound as assured as "I have faith in God". Faith is a little more all encompassing and indestructable. Hope seems to be about things we think we know a little less about, but really we don't know anymore when it comes to faith...we just believe we do...or hope we do. ;)-->
Love is reassuring. But like gravity, you don't always feel the affects of it everywhere. It requires action to feel it. There comes a point where you are so far from it that you can't feel it anymore...it doesn't affect you anymore. Like gravity, it attracts you, it draws you in, at least in healthy situations it does. Now I won't imply that God is love, because that would require me to have a faith that I don't have, a reassurance I don't need.
Love does seem to be something we need, not for survival, but to live the happy lives we are acustom to. That is different for everyone. Love to a middle-eastern woman will be very different from the love that I would like to experience. We've grown up in differnt worlds. Even more than either of us really realise, but we still want love. If there is a god that truly is love, then he/she/it must be much more diverse, much more abstract, much more ambiguous than most Christians/Jews/Muslims paint God to be.
Likewise truth must be the same.
As far as I can tell, truth is the moment. What we are each experiencing riht now. No wait...NOW. :)--> Everything in the the future is hope and faith, probability, postulating, and guessing. Everything in the past is a memory as intangible as faith. A memory is equally provable and improvable becuase it only exists in our brains...in a box never to be opened again. They are both bits of old truth and fallacy.
It is the moment. It is apples and oranges for all of us, as well as tangelos, kiwi, and mangos.
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Abigail
You think, therefore you are.
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dmiller
I still believe God's Word is Truth.
:)-->
That it is so thoroughly dissected by mankind, supports the fact, but not the conclusions derived.
Despite my lack of affinity with twi, the one thing they state that I can agree with absolutely is ----
THE WORD OF GOD, IS THE WILL OF GOD.
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sky4it
dmiller:
with respect to the Word of God is the Will of God, it was the most absolute statement, which one could not reasonably disagree with. The problem still remained , what was the word of God?
Words which only VPW could "rightly divide" became the logical conclusion. And thus this oxymoron, became the proverb for closing off ones mind to God. Furthermore, truth is emodied in a person, Jesus Christ. You cannot illustrate through simple paradigms of speech, all the reactions any person can have to any event. Why? Because there are billions of situations all with differing circumstances. Therefore the Word of God, or truth must be applicational, not rubber stamped. Interesting that the Word of God is exactly that. Words which can be applied in varying degrees and emphasis to literally billions of situations.
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TheInvisibleDan
I disagree.
That phrase, within the Way context, tended to produce as many if not more Bible-worshippers and doctrine cops, than actual Christians.
It's hardly a phrase which sheds any discernment or enlightenment concerning the heart of God.
And like twi - it leaves Christ out of the equation. Salvation now becomes determined by a supposed perfect book - not a spiritual Saviour.
Nope. I no longer even agree with twi on that.
Danny
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sky4it
Danny:
your comment
I disagree.
That phrase, within the Way context, tended to produce as many if not more Bible-worshippers and doctrine cops, than actual Christians.
It's hardly a phrase which sheds any discernment or enlightenment concerning the heart of God.
And like twi - it leaves Christ out of the equation. Salvation now becomes determined by a supposed perfect book - not a spiritual Saviour.
Nope. I no longer even agree with twi on that.
once again, I absolutely agree with you. Interesting, that even Biblically, the term will of God
and an event is only referenced to "santification" and abstainence from fornication, and being in control of ones own body or soul. Moreover, the control is relegated to the person himself, not some cheesy doctrine. How refreshing.
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
Abigail
posted October 12, 2004 20:44
You think, therefore you are.
To every man his own truth and his own God within.
Yo Abigail,
Your first statement, i will take as a reply this thread.
Your second statement, i will take as a signature.
So i will reply to your first statement.
But both seem to say the same thing.
I think.
This is a goldmine of thought to dig.
How about ~~~You thought, therefore you thunk you thought, therefore you are not, because you think you are thinking you think you are, BUT if you thought I was as I think you thought, then I think you thought i am, therefore you are thinking about what i thought... Who's on first~~~
What think you?
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George Aar
To paraphrase an old witicism,
The truth is that which, when you quit believing in it, doesn't go away...
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
I asked "What Is Truth?"
The Word of God?
What is the Word of God?
What is the "Word of God"? Are ya talkn Bible? "Billions of situations" is less than trillions of situations and eternity is more than forever.
What is "the equation"?
What are "actual Christians" ?
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
George Aar
posted October 13, 2004 23:46
To paraphrase an old witicism,
The truth is that which, when you quit believing in it, doesn't go away...
geo.
That's a haunting thought! or maybe, the truth goes beyond our will to deny? Or one misses the touchdown pass to win the super bowl.
or that there is no truth but the truth~~~
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sky4it
song :
yeah, i am talking bible.
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
kewl.
Sometimes I wonder when folks refer to scripture seeing that there is many mucho more scripture than the bible considering that Christainty is an Eastern Religion.
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TheInvisibleDan
Wtf, you want an "exhausted translation according to fuselage"?
oh, alright...
"actual Christians" ? - from my puny perspective, anyone who takes to heart a few things from Jesus' "Sermon on the Mount" and
endeavors to treat other fellow human beings with kindness and respect.
Shoot, I even regard my own agnostic brother a better and truer "Christian" than myself (and other self-proclaimed "Christians" I've seen over the years) from the manner in which he goes out his way to help others less fortunate than himself.
But that's only my personal opinion...
As to what "truth" is - my concerns tend to have more to do with choosing candidates at the moment than with religion or mythology. Who the heck knows what the "truth" is there...
Danny
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sky4it
Dan:
your comment:
Shoot, I even regard my own agnostic brother a better and truer "Christian" than myself (and other self-proclaimed "Christians" I've seen over the years) from the manner in which he goes out his way to help others less fortunate than himself.
Interesting comment Dan. I know this Doctor, who has a astronomical IQ. He is a Christian Scientist who has problems with the concept of "original sin" and other more mainstream Christian doctrines. Yet, I have never known a person, who walks and lives according to the gospel more than this guy. This man is worry free, because intellectully, he feels that worry or obsessing over problems has no possible benefit, so he doesnt do it. If that aint faith in God, I dont know what is. Interesting that the Apostle Paul, said God judges those who dont know the law or the gospel with there conscience. (The law that is given by birth in a persons heart) I also am amazed at the many whose deeds speak nothing as to what they say and know by doctrines, and those whose deeds speak volumes of what they don't need to know. Proving yet again, that hearing "the truth", doesnt have to be all that "perfect in doctrinal form." Thank you.
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sky4it
geo:
your comment:
The truth is that which, when you quit believing in it, doesn't go away...
Amen brother, preach it, because the contradiction is if it doesnt go away , you still believe it. You cant run away from the truth. One can only hide or decieve himself as to its existence.
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George Aar
Sky,
Maybe I should clarify a bit.
I stopped believing in mystical guidance from unseen sources, and lo and behold, I suddenly realized that all those "revelations" I got while a practicing Christian had a much more mundane and "senses world" explanation. Same with the "miraculous" healings, warm and fuzzy feelings of being "in fellowship" and being part of "the family of God". The feelings went away and so did any evidence of a magical holy thunderer with His hand on the controls of life.
OTOH, when I quit believing in gravity, I was rudely awakened to the fact that it did, indeed, still function quite well...
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2life
which means George--------- you never did quite stop believing in gravity.
Truth --- an alignment between what you are creating -- and what you are experiencing.
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lindyhopper
I stink, therefore I am....just try and deny me.
Truth is the moment.
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
Lourdy have the mercy that we could hang out tossing marbles our thoughts truth ~~~ this thread is a continuation since "What Is Truth" .
been so since, let'st just go back to Eve & Adam
hmmm... i would hope none of us is truly the enlightened ones with smirk invisible knowlege.
I have yet seen nothing more than recorded history many an experience the divine that proves nothing more than that which we see ourselfs this day and time.
oh well as others , i only have so many years to consider the, What Is Truth...
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
Yeah, like the moment one dies???
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
"Wtf, you want an "exhausted translation according to fuselage"?"
"WTF"!!! , that is also my question "What is Truth"
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TheInvisibleDan
To paraphrase a quote from "Invader Zim" :
I was like a fairy princess -I used to know the truth...and then everything went horribly wrong!!
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sky4it
Geo:
2life: i agree with your comment about gravity
your comment:
OTOH, when I quit believing in gravity, I was rudely awakened to the fact that it did, indeed, still function quite well...
Its ok with me too geo, if you dont want to believe in gravity, because that too in fact is the truth. Gravity exists in different proportions in different planets and in fact in some places it may not exist at all cause we dont know. Even the laws of physics may one day cease to exists we dont know. An investment in the laws of physics, may not be all that productive because we dont know what God created or will create beyond that.
There are for sure three things that are eternal. Faith, hope and love. The truth that God made love the ruling charicteristic for all eternity is reassuring. The fact that faith is eternal, in my view tells us we may not be able to ever know all there is to know about creation. His character, however, is unwavering in that what ever he does will be done with love.
Therefore we always have hope. Love isnt always warm and giggly, sometimes its a swift kick in the you know what. Thats kinda reassuring also isnt it? For who would want or could believe in a God who was just a bunch of warm fuzzies with an ever diminishing feeling that that isnt love at all. Love, I think is the most misabused word ever. We know what the porn stars think it is, we know what divorcing spouses think it is, and yes we know what evil lords of religion think it is who abuse people in the name of love. Personally, I think God himself is the only one who has a handle on it, because we are all capable of abusing one another. God's essence: Uncomprimising love, no matter what we "think is right."
You know Geo, I always have to try and stir your drink.
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lindyhopper
...not that there's anything wrong with that...
Sky,
You used reassuring a couple of times there. That's what its all about. Hope is reassuring. It helps us imagine that things will get better, death is not the end of life, there really is a God and He always loves me even when I'm a retard.
Faith is reassuring. It is really just another word for hope, but it sounds better when refering to beliefs. "I hope there's a God" just doesn't sound as assured as "I have faith in God". Faith is a little more all encompassing and indestructable. Hope seems to be about things we think we know a little less about, but really we don't know anymore when it comes to faith...we just believe we do...or hope we do.
;)-->
Love is reassuring. But like gravity, you don't always feel the affects of it everywhere. It requires action to feel it. There comes a point where you are so far from it that you can't feel it anymore...it doesn't affect you anymore. Like gravity, it attracts you, it draws you in, at least in healthy situations it does. Now I won't imply that God is love, because that would require me to have a faith that I don't have, a reassurance I don't need.
Love does seem to be something we need, not for survival, but to live the happy lives we are acustom to. That is different for everyone. Love to a middle-eastern woman will be very different from the love that I would like to experience. We've grown up in differnt worlds. Even more than either of us really realise, but we still want love. If there is a god that truly is love, then he/she/it must be much more diverse, much more abstract, much more ambiguous than most Christians/Jews/Muslims paint God to be.
Likewise truth must be the same.
As far as I can tell, truth is the moment. What we are each experiencing riht now. No wait...NOW.
:)--> Everything in the the future is hope and faith, probability, postulating, and guessing. Everything in the past is a memory as intangible as faith. A memory is equally provable and improvable becuase it only exists in our brains...in a box never to be opened again. They are both bits of old truth and fallacy.
It is the moment. It is apples and oranges for all of us, as well as tangelos, kiwi, and mangos.
Now isn't that reassuring?
Well, sorry.
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
Forgive me Invisible, I am not the biggest shed that hold the sharpest tools.
truly originally posted by TheInvisibleDan:
"Wtf, you want an "exhausted translation according to fuselage"?"
Edited by oneyedjackswild1 psLink to comment
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