What does it mean to love thy enemy? And can we love them, or anyone, if we don't first love ourselves? Can we know what it means? Can we see ourselves in them or them in us?
Good questions Abigail. Within 'em are the answers. And healing.
Cynicism tends to be viewed almost entirely negative in our society. Personally, even with the current perception of cynicism, given the present state of affairs in this country, I'm under the impression that there hasn't been enough of it.
Perhaps it is not widely known that Jesus Himself is also regarded something of a "cynic sage".
Jesus of Nazareth (c. 5 B.C.-c. 30 A.D.) What can you say about a wandering Jewish teacher who loathed materialism, ranted about hypocrisy and castigated the smug religious establishment of his day? That he was the Son of God and the savior of mankind? Perhaps. (We won't know for sure until we meet him.) That he was a cynic of the noblest order? Just as likely, I think. I've hesitated to dub Jesus a cynic because of the holy trappings that have embellished his name down through the centuries. And yes, he told us to love our enemies and counseled us to "judge not." But let's never forget that the immortal Galilean personified the true cynic's eternal opposition to cruelty, privilege and humbug. He cared little for worldly institutions; instead, he advocated a revolution in the human heart.
Favorite quote:
"For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world and lose his own soul?"
Cynic, if its by way of slimy ole Beelzebub that guys like VL and Roy have gained from what I've shared, by what holy angels do you use to contribute nothing on this thread but your personal scorn? Are you even interested in healing or wholeness of mind and body? Because all you've written here seems nothing but a painful and angry response to such discussions. Off topic and rude (but kinda cute...kinda). I'm still kinda glad you posted. :)-->
---
Danny, I actually kinda agree with you, kinda. I think it is cynicism and skepticism alone that causes a void. For what good is cynicism without love?
Jesus did not loathe, and he did not rant (except from a cynical point of view, of course ;)-->. And he cared as much for wordly institutions as he did a sick bird on a limb. He taught how to be liberated from them without destroying them (though they may destroy themselves for a time).
Should one curse the wonderful live-giving placenta for eventually becoming a useless and bloody mess? The strictly-cynical mind probably can't help itself.
This is what I mean. Cynicism alone can't distinguish between what it sees. Its not in its nature to do so. It is a tool with one good purpose, but it is not The tool of tools. It doubts and questions all things equally, without measure. Keeps us on our toes as cold hard winter sets in. But unrestrained as our king, it kills our spirit.
But integration of our cynicism makes it part of the whole soma of us.
If we identify with our gall bladder in spite of all else, will we make better use of heart?
Like the body/mind - when all parts of mind and all part of body integrate as one in our awareness. The only new thing is our point of view, which is not really a thing at all.
Besides, can't a man can keep his soul and still inherit the earth?
It is also interesting that Jesus could also be considered a “new age sage”.
He spoke of himself as a son of God, that the law could be fulfilled and surpassed by love, a baptism of fire and the Holy Spirit.
A cynic could describe these as mystical upchuckings of a preening newager who thought he was a superior soul who has passed to a higher state of being. Although he did not make an explicit statement to have attained a transcending state of being, existence and/or consciousness, a cynic could say he pontificated as if some such thing can be actualized and that Jesus could have significant knowledge of it.
Interestingly enough while Jesus had not achieved this transcendental state when he spoke of these things he did soon after. I think his resurrection with his new body and eternal life more than qualifies. He then went on to teach his disciples to breathe in to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit and charged them to teach others also so all who wished could follow.
Do you feel that I am dismissing you? Or that I am dismissing your comments?
Or Sirguessalot?
I was trying to point out in my last post that it could be argued that Jesus Christ was a new age guru just as well as he could argued to be a cynic sage. To me this means both positions are valid and yet they appear to be antagonistic. I enjoy such apparent contradictions.
As to your comments about Sirguess, I can understand why you said them because his posts could be interpreted to have that connotation. To me he views and tries to describe universal truths in a different and unique way that is once again valid but appears antagonistic to what we have been taught in twi. He makes me think as you do, and I enjoy and need the exercise.
Finally cynic I wonder if you are actually psychic- I recently bought three pairs of brown shoes and I love pickles – were you actually telling me I was dismissed?
Jesus was a "new age" guru. Much of what he is quoted as saying in the Bible comes not from Jewish Law but Jewish Mysticism. It is probably why those overly steeped in the law, without an understanding of the spirit, feared him so greatly.
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Vertical Limit
What does it mean to love thy enemy? And can we love them, or anyone, if we don't first love ourselves? Can we know what it means? Can we see ourselves in them or them in us?
Good questions Abigail. Within 'em are the answers. And healing.
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TheInvisibleDan
Cynicism tends to be viewed almost entirely negative in our society. Personally, even with the current perception of cynicism, given the present state of affairs in this country, I'm under the impression that there hasn't been enough of it.
Perhaps it is not widely known that Jesus Himself is also regarded something of a "cynic sage".
From http://www.i-cynic.com/fame.asp
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sirguessalot
Cynic, if its by way of slimy ole Beelzebub that guys like VL and Roy have gained from what I've shared, by what holy angels do you use to contribute nothing on this thread but your personal scorn? Are you even interested in healing or wholeness of mind and body? Because all you've written here seems nothing but a painful and angry response to such discussions. Off topic and rude (but kinda cute...kinda). I'm still kinda glad you posted.
:)-->
---
Danny, I actually kinda agree with you, kinda. I think it is cynicism and skepticism alone that causes a void. For what good is cynicism without love?
Jesus did not loathe, and he did not rant (except from a cynical point of view, of course
;)-->. And he cared as much for wordly institutions as he did a sick bird on a limb. He taught how to be liberated from them without destroying them (though they may destroy themselves for a time).
Should one curse the wonderful live-giving placenta for eventually becoming a useless and bloody mess? The strictly-cynical mind probably can't help itself.
This is what I mean. Cynicism alone can't distinguish between what it sees. Its not in its nature to do so. It is a tool with one good purpose, but it is not The tool of tools. It doubts and questions all things equally, without measure. Keeps us on our toes as cold hard winter sets in. But unrestrained as our king, it kills our spirit.
But integration of our cynicism makes it part of the whole soma of us.
If we identify with our gall bladder in spite of all else, will we make better use of heart?
Like the body/mind - when all parts of mind and all part of body integrate as one in our awareness. The only new thing is our point of view, which is not really a thing at all.
Besides, can't a man can keep his soul and still inherit the earth?
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ckeer
It is also interesting that Jesus could also be considered a “new age sage”.
He spoke of himself as a son of God, that the law could be fulfilled and surpassed by love, a baptism of fire and the Holy Spirit.
A cynic could describe these as mystical upchuckings of a preening newager who thought he was a superior soul who has passed to a higher state of being. Although he did not make an explicit statement to have attained a transcending state of being, existence and/or consciousness, a cynic could say he pontificated as if some such thing can be actualized and that Jesus could have significant knowledge of it.
Interestingly enough while Jesus had not achieved this transcendental state when he spoke of these things he did soon after. I think his resurrection with his new body and eternal life more than qualifies. He then went on to teach his disciples to breathe in to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit and charged them to teach others also so all who wished could follow.
Sounds like new age in a nutshell to me.
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Cynic
Ckeer,
One could equally dismiss two persons who claim to own several pairs of brown shoes. One would not necessarily be correct in doing so.
http://cloud.prohosting.com/ttatwavs/Barney/8qts.wav
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sirguessalot
You see? To cynicism alone, mere chance of error usually equals error.
Possibility becomes a mostly nihilist expectation.
ok.
Cynic,
I'm curious
(but getting kinda bored, so you might actually "win" something if you keep it up
) 
;)-->
And you can ask me anything though. Honestly.
But in all fairness, please answer me, too.
Its not that hard.
Are you even interested in discussing healing?
Do you believe in divine love? Can it be practiced?
Are these things even possible, right here, right now?
And if not possible for you, might they be possible for other people (who are not already dead)?
?
"a quip directed against" is the only real purpose you've expressed here, thus far,
regardless of what any of us claim to know or believe.
How long can you keep it up?
btw - I'm not offended, yer just being rude, more than anything.
I wish you well.
aint anti-torture grande?
;)-->
mwah
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ckeer
Cynic- I realize I am probably not as intelligent or as well educated in you. Perhaps this is why I am baffled by your post.
Do you feel that I am dismissing you? Or that I am dismissing your comments?
Or Sirguessalot?
I was trying to point out in my last post that it could be argued that Jesus Christ was a new age guru just as well as he could argued to be a cynic sage. To me this means both positions are valid and yet they appear to be antagonistic. I enjoy such apparent contradictions.
As to your comments about Sirguess, I can understand why you said them because his posts could be interpreted to have that connotation. To me he views and tries to describe universal truths in a different and unique way that is once again valid but appears antagonistic to what we have been taught in twi. He makes me think as you do, and I enjoy and need the exercise.
Finally cynic I wonder if you are actually psychic- I recently bought three pairs of brown shoes and I love pickles – were you actually telling me I was dismissed?
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Abigail
Jesus was a "new age" guru. Much of what he is quoted as saying in the Bible comes not from Jewish Law but Jewish Mysticism. It is probably why those overly steeped in the law, without an understanding of the spirit, feared him so greatly.
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dmiller
I was taught that the Pharisees embraced the "letter of the law", and that Jesus embraced the "spirit of the law".
Rings true for me.
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smurfette
Gee, this is mostly over my head so to speak. The one thought I had while reading this was, "No one ever EXPECTS the Inquisition!"
-->
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def59
Since Jesus authored the law and was the lord of the Sabbath, I am sure his statements confounded many.
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