when i was a wayfer i believed longsuffering meant your heart could feel the suffering of others.... let them walk on your feet 'til they could walk on their own.... etc. etc.
here i see most christians just walk on each other....
Heerz my 2 cents worth (in my best ex-PFAL vernacular)...
Longsuffering is a spiritual activity in the garden of God, which is to say, the garden of our lives. Just as fruit is the activity of any garden's life. It is to the depth and degree we eat of this fruit of the tree of life that we will be nourished by it. It is to the depth and degree we understand this fruit that we can cultivate it. It is to the depth and degree we cultivate/practice/sow this fruit in our body/soul/spirit that we will reap the spiritual fruit, which energizes and quickens the fruit in both mind and body.
But, to the depth and degree we avoid this nourishment and/or cultivation, we will suffer in that capacity. Because to NOT practice longsuffering, is to lack a vital spiritual nutrient, which leaves a hole in our wholeness like a shadow across our spirit. To the depth and degree we do not nourish ourselves with longsuffering, we are running from the crossroads between heaven and earth, and back towards the cycles of hell and death. To the depth and degree we do not cultivate and practice longsuffering, gifts of healing will not manifest themselves. Because there is no patience or experience of the seasonalities of all of our lives. We have planted nothing. We are not rooted and grounded in love. We cannot discern the sky or the times. We become spiritually cold and numb.
And if we are not rooted in love as the first thing done, what lasting thing could ever grow from us?
---
So what is longsuffering, exactly?
I think you said it plain, E, with "to feel the suffering of others." But also, not to forget to feel the suffering of ourselves (if we really wanna believe we are all one in Christ and God).
And if longsuffering (or any action) is to be considered "of Christ," it has got to be universal (Christ is king of everything, right?), which includes longsuffering for our worst of enemies.
Prior to posting, I checked the word in Vines Expost. Dict of new words. It said something about patience, and bearing long with. Problem is in our fast food culture, that doesnt seem to fruitful to me.
I remember after I got married and my wife was in the hospital almost 50 times over the next 8 years. Then my daughter came down with Luekimia ( she is know cured) I have always wondered what the fruit is in learning how to bear long with some one.
About the only thing I can say, is that in these times is when I've dug the deepest to find the Lord. It does seem to me that the Lords personality is very meek, very low, I have often thought that if I want to be like him, I need to find good reasons to be like that. One thing I love about this , is that I think this characteristic of Christ, ( his meekness or lowness) means that he will always be withing reach, so long as I am not trying to be a big shot myself.
I wish I desired to be "longsuffering", as much as I desiredsuccess. The worlds version of success is to have the affirmation of people. The Lord has that all tipped upside down I think.
Well I spent one penny of my two cents.
I soo appreciate your comments EXC and Todd. I dont get a lot of fellowship these days. Thanks
here i see most christians just walk on each other....
I think I am going to stay out of doctrinal arguements, its too much strife for me. I really dont think the Lord wants us to strive with others, people just get hurt.
"I wish I desired..." is a rare prayer, my friend.
To come to this point of wanting to want something (rather than just wanting alone) is a sign of real things happening in one's heart, imo.
quote:I really dont think the Lord wants us to strive with others, people just get hurt.
Mostly ourselves, too, because our unchecked hates only diminish our own virtues (like Peter lacking longsuffering for that soldier and thinking he needed to defend "his" Jesus). Which is another good reason to cultivate longsuffering -- to increase our capacity to suffer, to be able to become more fluidic bearers of pain (ours and others) rather than hardened resisters. It will not change much of the world, but it will change us so that we will be able to bear more of it. Longsuffering enables us for the sake of others. It puts us in touch with the cyclic nature of life and healing, by carrying us through to the other end of "winter."
Yah know Todd when Im angry and resentful for someone taking advantage of me, it seems to occupy me in an unproductive way. Maybe in that sense, longsuffering is a fruit, cause I can quickly forget about it and give it to the Lord.
That was so good what you said. I may have to repost that when there is a hot battle of the doctines going on in the room. Your comments would be like putting water on fire. Superb.
Once again Todd puts things so well. The idea of being longsuffering with oneself is important.
I ran a quick word check on longsuffering and these two verses stood out to me.
Col 1:10That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God;
Col 1:11Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness
Perhaps longsuffering is a fruit of the spirit because when it can be longsuffering with joyfulness, it is based on being fruitful in every good work, walking worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing and increasing in the knowledge of God.
CW- Fruit of the spirit are mentioned in Gal 5:22 and 5:23
Gal 5:22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
I quoted these verses in Colossians because I felt it helped explain why longsuffering was a fruit of the spirit. Patience is not listed as a fruit of the spirit
Here is a definition of the two words in Col 1:11 from Strongs Dictionary as found on the BlueLetterBible.org Site
2) patience, forbearance, longsuffering, slowness in avenging wrongs
Patience: Strongs 5281
hupomone {hoop-om-on-ay'}
Translated in KJV- patience 29, enduring 1, patient continuance 1,
patient waiting 1;
Meaning-
1) steadfastness, constancy, endurance
a) in the NT the characteristic of a man who is not swerved from his deliberate purpose and his loyalty to faith and piety by even the greatest trials and sufferings
b) patiently, and steadfastly
2) a patient, steadfast waiting for
3) a patient enduring, sustaining, perseverance
Perhaps one way to look at the difference between the two is that having patience-“ loyalty to faith and piety by even the greatest trials and sufferings” is a requirement to longsuffering-“slowness in avenging wrongs”
Another way to look at it is that patience may be in reference to an individuals continued belief in God and the bible. Longsuffering may be in reference to an individuals continued application of that belief in spite of adverse circumstances.
I think I know the difference between patience and longsuffering.
I suffer in life, I get hurt those I love and know get hurt we suffer llife itself and death.
we miss one another we see one another sin or fall short and must move on without and we suffer for it.
I had to pray for patience for years, adn I think Im getting it, I used to be irrated standing in line at the bank with one teller open on a friday night and pray to be patient .
If I break a leg I must be patient for it to heal. But if my leg falls off I must suffer long without it. it has to do with a time and matter of degree in waiting for the Lord to deliver.
Anyways, it sure would be nice if it would be something to look forward to (longsuffering) rather than despised.
I think now sometimes that, because of our nature to engage in self glory when we are lifted up in some respect, that God seems to place his power in places where it is hidden. I think Habakuk said there is the hiding of his power.
There is something I stumbled across years ago that is quite fascinating.
You know how they talk about Job's three friends? Turns out there was a fourth guy by the name of Elihu who also talked to Job. Chapter 32-37.
Niether was God angry with this fellow like the other three, but God said nothing about him. Somewhat fascinating the term ELI means God or Lord, i forget. The hu, I dunno, one for the word study types. Could it mean God Who? as in type of Christ like the tabernacle was. Me thinks so.
Anyways his words are quite comforting, I know I have enjoyed them. Take a peek, it will be worth your while.
I vaguely remember VPW teaching that Job prayed for three of the "miserable comforters" but not a fourth, Elihu? before God delivered him.
The other thing I remember was VPW saying that the fourth was seed and that was why Job did not pray for him Could VP actually be that far off? I guess so.
Anyone else rember somthing like that?
BTW- Strongs says Elihu means "He is my God" and the Hebrew lexicon translates Elihu "whose God is He"
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TheEvan
Yeah, doesn't seem to fit with Der Veg's cartoonish rose-garden tiptoe through the tulips take on Christianity.
Does it?
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sky4it
Evan:
You can say that again evan.
still there must be something good about it tastey too... hummmm.
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excathedra
what an interesting question
when i was a wayfer i believed longsuffering meant your heart could feel the suffering of others.... let them walk on your feet 'til they could walk on their own.... etc. etc.
here i see most christians just walk on each other....
but of course no babes in the word, eh ?
:)-->
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sirguessalot
Hello, sky4it.
Nice lead off.
Heerz my 2 cents worth (in my best ex-PFAL vernacular)...
Longsuffering is a spiritual activity in the garden of God, which is to say, the garden of our lives. Just as fruit is the activity of any garden's life. It is to the depth and degree we eat of this fruit of the tree of life that we will be nourished by it. It is to the depth and degree we understand this fruit that we can cultivate it. It is to the depth and degree we cultivate/practice/sow this fruit in our body/soul/spirit that we will reap the spiritual fruit, which energizes and quickens the fruit in both mind and body.
But, to the depth and degree we avoid this nourishment and/or cultivation, we will suffer in that capacity. Because to NOT practice longsuffering, is to lack a vital spiritual nutrient, which leaves a hole in our wholeness like a shadow across our spirit. To the depth and degree we do not nourish ourselves with longsuffering, we are running from the crossroads between heaven and earth, and back towards the cycles of hell and death. To the depth and degree we do not cultivate and practice longsuffering, gifts of healing will not manifest themselves. Because there is no patience or experience of the seasonalities of all of our lives. We have planted nothing. We are not rooted and grounded in love. We cannot discern the sky or the times. We become spiritually cold and numb.
And if we are not rooted in love as the first thing done, what lasting thing could ever grow from us?
---
So what is longsuffering, exactly?
I think you said it plain, E, with "to feel the suffering of others." But also, not to forget to feel the suffering of ourselves (if we really wanna believe we are all one in Christ and God).
And if longsuffering (or any action) is to be considered "of Christ," it has got to be universal (Christ is king of everything, right?), which includes longsuffering for our worst of enemies.
Or we lie, and have not Christ, really.
Its enough to make grown men cry.
(or continue to lie and lie and lie and lie)
Peace,
Todd
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sky4it
Thanks Exc & Todd,
I enjoyed your comments.
Prior to posting, I checked the word in Vines Expost. Dict of new words. It said something about patience, and bearing long with. Problem is in our fast food culture, that doesnt seem to fruitful to me.
I remember after I got married and my wife was in the hospital almost 50 times over the next 8 years. Then my daughter came down with Luekimia ( she is know cured) I have always wondered what the fruit is in learning how to bear long with some one.
About the only thing I can say, is that in these times is when I've dug the deepest to find the Lord. It does seem to me that the Lords personality is very meek, very low, I have often thought that if I want to be like him, I need to find good reasons to be like that. One thing I love about this , is that I think this characteristic of Christ, ( his meekness or lowness) means that he will always be withing reach, so long as I am not trying to be a big shot myself.
I wish I desired to be "longsuffering", as much as I desiredsuccess. The worlds version of success is to have the affirmation of people. The Lord has that all tipped upside down I think.
Well I spent one penny of my two cents.
I soo appreciate your comments EXC and Todd. I dont get a lot of fellowship these days. Thanks
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sky4it
Excath:
Your comment:
here i see most christians just walk on each other....
I think I am going to stay out of doctrinal arguements, its too much strife for me. I really dont think the Lord wants us to strive with others, people just get hurt.
God bless
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sirguessalot
"I wish I desired..." is a rare prayer, my friend.
To come to this point of wanting to want something (rather than just wanting alone) is a sign of real things happening in one's heart, imo.
Mostly ourselves, too, because our unchecked hates only diminish our own virtues (like Peter lacking longsuffering for that soldier and thinking he needed to defend "his" Jesus). Which is another good reason to cultivate longsuffering -- to increase our capacity to suffer, to be able to become more fluidic bearers of pain (ours and others) rather than hardened resisters. It will not change much of the world, but it will change us so that we will be able to bear more of it. Longsuffering enables us for the sake of others. It puts us in touch with the cyclic nature of life and healing, by carrying us through to the other end of "winter."In this alone, there are sooo many gifts.
sky4it, I wish I could hang out more.
My email is always open.
Todd
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sky4it
Todd:
Yah know Todd when Im angry and resentful for someone taking advantage of me, it seems to occupy me in an unproductive way. Maybe in that sense, longsuffering is a fruit, cause I can quickly forget about it and give it to the Lord.
That was so good what you said. I may have to repost that when there is a hot battle of the doctines going on in the room. Your comments would be like putting water on fire. Superb.
God Bless yah Todd, talk to yah later.
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ckeer
Once again Todd puts things so well. The idea of being longsuffering with oneself is important.
I ran a quick word check on longsuffering and these two verses stood out to me.
Col 1:10That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God;
Col 1:11Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness
Perhaps longsuffering is a fruit of the spirit because when it can be longsuffering with joyfulness, it is based on being fruitful in every good work, walking worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing and increasing in the knowledge of God.
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CoolWaters
So what is the difference between longsuffering and patience that they are listed as two separate fruits?
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ckeer
CW- Fruit of the spirit are mentioned in Gal 5:22 and 5:23
Gal 5:22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
I quoted these verses in Colossians because I felt it helped explain why longsuffering was a fruit of the spirit. Patience is not listed as a fruit of the spirit
Here is a definition of the two words in Col 1:11 from Strongs Dictionary as found on the BlueLetterBible.org Site
Longsuffering: Strongs 3115
makrothumia {mak-roth-oo-mee'-ah}
Translated in KJV - longsuffering 12, patience 2;
Meaning-
1) patience, endurance, constancy, steadfastness, perseverance
2) patience, forbearance, longsuffering, slowness in avenging wrongs
Patience: Strongs 5281
hupomone {hoop-om-on-ay'}
Translated in KJV- patience 29, enduring 1, patient continuance 1,
patient waiting 1;
Meaning-
1) steadfastness, constancy, endurance
a) in the NT the characteristic of a man who is not swerved from his deliberate purpose and his loyalty to faith and piety by even the greatest trials and sufferings
b) patiently, and steadfastly
2) a patient, steadfast waiting for
3) a patient enduring, sustaining, perseverance
Perhaps one way to look at the difference between the two is that having patience-“ loyalty to faith and piety by even the greatest trials and sufferings” is a requirement to longsuffering-“slowness in avenging wrongs”
Another way to look at it is that patience may be in reference to an individuals continued belief in God and the bible. Longsuffering may be in reference to an individuals continued application of that belief in spite of adverse circumstances.
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mj412
I think I know the difference between patience and longsuffering.
I suffer in life, I get hurt those I love and know get hurt we suffer llife itself and death.
we miss one another we see one another sin or fall short and must move on without and we suffer for it.
I had to pray for patience for years, adn I think Im getting it, I used to be irrated standing in line at the bank with one teller open on a friday night and pray to be patient .
If I break a leg I must be patient for it to heal. But if my leg falls off I must suffer long without it. it has to do with a time and matter of degree in waiting for the Lord to deliver.
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def59
The modern versions translate longsuffering as patience.
Remember it's the Fruit of the Spirit, not ourselves. It is whatever the Holy Spirit wants to bring forth in you.
Refer to John 15 with the vine and branches.
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sirguessalot
"...of the spirit (but) not (of) ourselves..."
Only if we are disconnected from God and Christ and Spirit.
peace
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sky4it
Anyways, it sure would be nice if it would be something to look forward to (longsuffering) rather than despised.
I think now sometimes that, because of our nature to engage in self glory when we are lifted up in some respect, that God seems to place his power in places where it is hidden. I think Habakuk said there is the hiding of his power.
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WordWolf
"makrothumia",
"far from wrath", in English.
It's one thing to be able to go the distance,
which is important.
It's entirely another to keep one's cool while all about you
are losing theirs.
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CoolWaters
ckeer,
Ooops! I guess doing things from memory isn't so good after menopause. LOL
;)--> Thanks!
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sky4it
Everybody:
There is something I stumbled across years ago that is quite fascinating.
You know how they talk about Job's three friends? Turns out there was a fourth guy by the name of Elihu who also talked to Job. Chapter 32-37.
Niether was God angry with this fellow like the other three, but God said nothing about him. Somewhat fascinating the term ELI means God or Lord, i forget. The hu, I dunno, one for the word study types. Could it mean God Who? as in type of Christ like the tabernacle was. Me thinks so.
Anyways his words are quite comforting, I know I have enjoyed them. Take a peek, it will be worth your while.
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WordWolf
God said nothing against Elihu.
God reproved everybody else-Job, and the miserable comforters.
That's because Elihu was right.
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ckeer
The point about Elihu is interesting.
I vaguely remember VPW teaching that Job prayed for three of the "miserable comforters" but not a fourth, Elihu? before God delivered him.
The other thing I remember was VPW saying that the fourth was seed and that was why Job did not pray for him Could VP actually be that far off? I guess so.
Anyone else rember somthing like that?
BTW- Strongs says Elihu means "He is my God" and the Hebrew lexicon translates Elihu "whose God is He"
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sky4it
wordwolf:
Yeppers
Amen - i havent said that in a while.
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sky4it
So were all done talking about Longsuffering? No stories that make it look sweet? Come on lets get it on, theres gotta be some?
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sky4it
ckeer:
Your comment:
BTW- Strongs says Elihu means "He is my God" and the Hebrew lexicon translates Elihu "whose God is He"
Thanks, that kinda reinforced what I thought. Yeah I think he was that far off on that one.
I remember hearing Job suffered cause he "feared", or had negative belief? Did anyone hear that one?
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WordWolf
We've discussed that Job thing and fear thing here before.
Might want to do a search on "Job" and "fear" or "Elihu"
for the posts, or something.
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