I keep a journal of my conversations with God...izat what you mean? My journal is personal stuff between Him and I, nothing earth shattering, just simple conversation.
I'd say Wordwolf's estimate is right. There's a lot of people who don't say what their religous beliefs are, and there are quite a few that are still trying to figure it out, not ready to embrace Christianity whole-heartedly, nor willing to stake out the atheist camp.
We've got Christians of all persuasions here, as well as Buddhists, Wiccans, and other religions. Enough agnostics to form a pickup softball game and a handful of atheists.
AS JF said: "...as long is there is a mutual respect for each other's beliefs/non-beliefs...
There have been a few here that like to cram their theology or lack there of down your throat, that's when folks get ....ed..."
I go along with that :D-->
And before you say that Agnosticism is the "only logical position to take", have a few conversations with Zixar and some of the other "PhD believers" around here :P-->. I disagree with them, but they make me work for it
quote: Do the Christians here get all steamed up if you express lack of belief publicly on the forum?
Not really. I've gotten that way myself a time or two, and then the next day I turned around and apologized. Too many "belief" systems going on here, so I think everyone (with a few exceptions) understands that their's is not the only boat afloat. :)-->
I automatically assumed that the vast majority of posters here would be none believers and too angry at the notion of God to continue having faith, having had a bad experience with Christianity.
quote: I automatically assumed that the vast majority of posters here would be none believers and too angry at the notion of God to continue having faith, having had a bad experience with Christianity.
I must admit Im surprised.
Not the case for the majority of us (but I can only speak for myself). Honest question Refiner -- since when is it God's fault that we have had a "bad experience with Christianity"??
You say you are an agnostic, and that is fine by me, but I remain a believer in God, and all He promises reguardless what man may do to gain their own ends - monetarily or whatever, like so many of us experienced in twi.
Just because a man screwed up, and I happened to listen to him, and believed him - doesn't mean God is at fault. It is not anyone's fault except my own that I took the path I did.
I think (again - speaking my own viewpoint) that more people here are p**sed off at vpw, lcm, etc. than they are at God. If you bought a car that was a "lemon", would you be mad at the guy who sold it to you, or the manufacturer?? My guess is that you would be headed to the car lot where you bought it, and not to the factory where it was made.
Same with this site here. We have all gone thru "stuff" because of twi, and while some have "issues" with God (and that is their right to do so), some (like myself) prefer to lay the blame at the doorstep of a farmhouse in Ohio, rather than at the foot of the throne in Heavan.
Quote: "Where is the logic in rejecting the idea of God or Christianity altogether because of a bad experience in a cult that misrepresented them?"
Well Goey, I'll answer that, Ive been involved in dozens of them, literally.
Interestingly they are all able to have Liftons Criteria of "thought reform" applied to them.
Exceptions might well be the long established churches such as , eg, Lutherans.
I dont know how manipulative such churches are, but every younger movement Ive been involved with, including assorted pentecostal movements, the 3 major sects and all the small, growing new religions, well they are wplves in sheeps clothing, one and all from where I sit.
There seems to be the same horrible results whenever you combine an organizational structure with a totalist belief system.
I cant help but feel that, if there is any spiritual side to things at all, that such structures are employed by darkness masquerading as light.
If there is any God at the top of their 'food chain' it is Satan, not the true God.
You may want to consider what it is about yourself that caused you to be involved with literal dozens of cults. Seems like you sought out religious organizations that would abuse and control you.
Well I was raised in the JWs from 6 years of age until I left at 24.
So I guess I had no say in that one.
As to the other groups, well I didnt believe any of their doctrines, I was merely experiencing their miliueu and studying their doctrine as reference for the book I was writing.I started writing the book in 1992 and (by prearrangement) stopped attending cults as at January 1, 2001. I wasnt alone in the venture, there were a group of 4 of us involved in the exercize of joining groups.
Its interesting to consider that a large proportion of former Wayfers seem to be still Christian, while the majority of former dubs that I know are virulently non believers in anything.
Hi exy, its 7 am here and Im just on my morning stint before work.I think that TWI is Christ centered, wheras the dubs is focused upon Yahweh as a seperate character from Christ. Yahwehs a very ANGRY person.
So dubs are reared on a view of God that is far away from the view of God that many posters here would hold.
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Oakspear
No
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jezusfreaky
Roy...
I keep a journal of my conversations with God...izat what you mean? My journal is personal stuff between Him and I, nothing earth shattering, just simple conversation.
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mj412
I also kept a journal my years after the way it helped me understand what I was doing and thinking at the time.
I cherish the 7 notebooks I filled!!!!!
no I do not believe in prophecy to much from a man or woman or myself.
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Goey
Roy,
Not everyone believes that the musings of their mind are "prophecy".
The answer is no.
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Refiner
Im curious. What proportion of the people on this site are Christians?
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WordWolf
Offhand, maybe 60%-65%...that's a rough guesstimate off the top of my head
and not based on any statistics.
No lower than 50% of posters, no more than 70% of posters, I'd say.
The Doctrinal forum tends to draw more Christians, and a few outspoken
agnostics and atheists.
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Refiner
Thanks WW.
Im an agnostic myself. It seems the only logical position to take.
Do the Christians here get all steamed up if you express lack of belief publicly on the forum?
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jezusfreaky
Refiner...
I don't...as long is there is a mutual respect for each other's beliefs/non-beliefs...
There have been a few here that like to cram their theology or lack there of down your throat, that's when folks get ....ed...
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Oakspear
Refiner:
I'd say Wordwolf's estimate is right. There's a lot of people who don't say what their religous beliefs are, and there are quite a few that are still trying to figure it out, not ready to embrace Christianity whole-heartedly, nor willing to stake out the atheist camp.
We've got Christians of all persuasions here, as well as Buddhists, Wiccans, and other religions. Enough agnostics to form a pickup softball game and a handful of atheists.
AS JF said: "...as long is there is a mutual respect for each other's beliefs/non-beliefs...
There have been a few here that like to cram their theology or lack there of down your throat, that's when folks get ....ed..."
I go along with that
:D-->
And before you say that Agnosticism is the "only logical position to take", have a few conversations with Zixar and some of the other "PhD believers" around here
:P-->. I disagree with them, but they make me work for it 
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Zixar
Geez, I'm not all that bad, am I?
:)-->
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dmiller
Not really. I've gotten that way myself a time or two, and then the next day I turned around and apologized. Too many "belief" systems going on here, so I think everyone (with a few exceptions) understands that their's is not the only boat afloat.
:)-->
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dmiller
Woops -- answered Refiner, but not Roy.
-->
Roy -- No I don't.
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Oakspear
Well Zix, you do have a reputation to maintain
;)-->
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Refiner
I automatically assumed that the vast majority of posters here would be none believers and too angry at the notion of God to continue having faith, having had a bad experience with Christianity.
I must admit Im surprised.
Ahhh, well, live and learn.
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Goey
Refiner,
Where is the logic in rejecting the idea of God or Christianity altogether because of a bad experience in a cult that misrepresented them?
The Way represents neither God nor Christianity.
Why be angry at the notion of God because of the actions of people who don't even speak for him?
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dmiller
Not the case for the majority of us (but I can only speak for myself). Honest question Refiner -- since when is it God's fault that we have had a "bad experience with Christianity"??
You say you are an agnostic, and that is fine by me, but I remain a believer in God, and all He promises reguardless what man may do to gain their own ends - monetarily or whatever, like so many of us experienced in twi.
Just because a man screwed up, and I happened to listen to him, and believed him - doesn't mean God is at fault. It is not anyone's fault except my own that I took the path I did.
I think (again - speaking my own viewpoint) that more people here are p**sed off at vpw, lcm, etc. than they are at God. If you bought a car that was a "lemon", would you be mad at the guy who sold it to you, or the manufacturer?? My guess is that you would be headed to the car lot where you bought it, and not to the factory where it was made.
Same with this site here. We have all gone thru "stuff" because of twi, and while some have "issues" with God (and that is their right to do so), some (like myself) prefer to lay the blame at the doorstep of a farmhouse in Ohio, rather than at the foot of the throne in Heavan.
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Oakspear
Even though I'm an agnostic myself, I don't see how a bad experience with a cult would necessarily turn one off from Christianity or God.
Unless one believes it was somehow God's fault.
I can see being leary of a system that asks unquestioning acceptance or obedience though
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Refiner
Quote: "Where is the logic in rejecting the idea of God or Christianity altogether because of a bad experience in a cult that misrepresented them?"
Well Goey, I'll answer that, Ive been involved in dozens of them, literally.
Interestingly they are all able to have Liftons Criteria of "thought reform" applied to them.
Exceptions might well be the long established churches such as , eg, Lutherans.
I dont know how manipulative such churches are, but every younger movement Ive been involved with, including assorted pentecostal movements, the 3 major sects and all the small, growing new religions, well they are wplves in sheeps clothing, one and all from where I sit.
There seems to be the same horrible results whenever you combine an organizational structure with a totalist belief system.
I cant help but feel that, if there is any spiritual side to things at all, that such structures are employed by darkness masquerading as light.
If there is any God at the top of their 'food chain' it is Satan, not the true God.
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Zixar
Refiner: You make a good point, but may I add that it's usually the case that agnostics hate the idea of "church" more than the actual idea of "God"?
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Goey
Refiner,
You may want to consider what it is about yourself that caused you to be involved with literal dozens of cults. Seems like you sought out religious organizations that would abuse and control you.
Dude, thats way beyond normal.
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Tom Strange
Goey said:
That's my stance as well... besides, if I posted ALL of my musings here, folks would think I'm insane... (of course... some do anyway!)Link to comment
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Refiner
Goey.
Well I was raised in the JWs from 6 years of age until I left at 24.
So I guess I had no say in that one.
As to the other groups, well I didnt believe any of their doctrines, I was merely experiencing their miliueu and studying their doctrine as reference for the book I was writing.I started writing the book in 1992 and (by prearrangement) stopped attending cults as at January 1, 2001. I wasnt alone in the venture, there were a group of 4 of us involved in the exercize of joining groups.
Its interesting to consider that a large proportion of former Wayfers seem to be still Christian, while the majority of former dubs that I know are virulently non believers in anything.
There must be a reason for that.
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excathedra
i've been thinking about that too, refiner
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Refiner
Hi exy, its 7 am here and Im just on my morning stint before work.I think that TWI is Christ centered, wheras the dubs is focused upon Yahweh as a seperate character from Christ. Yahwehs a very ANGRY person.
So dubs are reared on a view of God that is far away from the view of God that many posters here would hold.
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