It depends on what you can give and how much you want to give.
The moment it becomes a matter of obligation, it loses its worth. The moment it becomes a matter of pride (look at how much I give), it loses its worth.
The NT encourages generous giving, and so do I. The NT does not require a tithe, and neither do I. Tithe if you want to, but tithe because you want to. The percentage doesn't impress God. The heart does.
But def, if you're happy giving at the level you're giving at now, that's fine too.
Your giving should be a reflection of the life you live for God, and that's for you to determine, not for others to judge. Do you consider yourself a strong believer? Does your giving reflect this? Do you consider yourself someone who speaks and preaches the gospel? Does your giving reflect this? Do you consider yourself knowledgeable in the Scriptures? Does your giving reflect this? Do you consider yourself diligent when it comes to the things of God? Does your giving reflect this? Do you love God and love your neighbor as yourself? Does your giving reflect this?
These are among the standards which motivate us toward generosity in our giving.
Tithing was a good thing because the Old Testament people had to pay for their priest to eat or ect but-------------------------
1. Jesus Christ is the last high priest and he needs no food
2. Jesus Christ paid for all and means tithes too ( yes he pay-ed for all things for us with his life)
3.Jesus Christ calls the tithe in ___________
Mather 23:23 " Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone."
4 Only other place tithing is talk about is in Hebews as a dead law
5. giving because you just want to give is love giving -v- tithing is a law
Now tithing does not hurt you to do but its better to give out of love not law
Now that is all I can say have fun talking about it
"Every man according as he purposes in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of neccesity: for God loves a cheerful giver.
If you "have to tithe", you are giving out of neccesity. Perhaps you are giving from the heart, and if so -- good.
But to be told you have to do it, and following that "instruction" -- indicates following law, and not the heart.
Reguardless what your pastor says Def, I am a huge believer in the "dispensation"/ "administration" outlook on scripture, and I for one (imho) think that he is not correct in promoting the tithe, since that is not what is taught in the Epistles.
Free-will giving is taught in both the Epistles, as well as the Gospels, and the instance of the widow and her two mites speaks volumes. As you know, Jesus thought more highly of her contribution, than of those who "tithed in accordance" to what was required.
Were he (your pastor) to promote giving money freely as you personally determine, I would be behind him 100%. For him to put a "numeric" amount on what your desire to give to your particular fellowship should be is re-instating "law", and NOT free-will giving.
But that is between you and what he is teaching. :)-->
I am not promoting "abundant sharing" as twi did, but I am promoting "abundant sharing" as each one of us individually determines what that means to us, in our own lives, and as we are both willing, and able to give.
And for the record, I give almost a day's wages every month regularly to a certain orginization, as well as "sporadic spending sprees" on local folks, as I see fit.
I am happy with what I do, and I look for more ways to give of what I have to those who need it.
When you're not "locked into" the tithe mentality, it is amazing how much more you can be open to give, to those who need it right then and there. Not criticizing you, or your pastor -- but it is something to think about.
I am struggling with this issue. My wife is really hammering at me to tithe, but I am having doubts. I am prospering well now and I give what I can, because life is expensive, even at the basics.
I looked at some OT records and they say the tithe is
1. Produce from the farm
2. Intended for the people
3. To supply a huge feast
4. The Levites were to bring a tithe of the tithe to the storehouses. Which makes me wonder if the teachings from Malachi are right or not.
Other things I have found
Abraham gave a tithe not of his land or crops or herds, but of plunder that he got when he rescued Lot.
Jacob promised God to give a tenth if God met certain conditions, but I can't find anywhere that Jacob ever followed through.
Maybe I am wrong.
And the New Testament is replete with cautions about giving freely and determining what each can give.
Does no one realize that many Christians were persecuted and/or slaves. What were they to give in the first place?
Even if one were to reject dispensationalism, an argument can still be made that the tithe is not applicable today (as a requirement). We know, for example, that circumcision is not a requirement. Most of us realize that dietary laws are not a requirement. One must ask IF the tithe falls into the same category of laws that are no longer required.
Gentile believers with no background in Judaism are never told to tithe. James, after the Jerusalem council, never instructs Gentiles to tithe. JAMES! I thought he was the big legalist! Yet no instruction to tithe.
Paul spends several chapters in Corinthians talking about the heart behind giving. The tithe is conspicuously absent.
You'll never catch me saying there's something wrong with tithing. But there is something wrong with requiring others to do so. The NT doesn't.
The problem I have is with the term "tithe" being used in the context of the NT Church.
Tithe is from the Hebrew "ma`aser" which literally means "tenth" or tenth part. Tithes are fist mentioned in Genesis 14:20 before the Law.
quote:Gen 14:18-20 (KJV)
18. And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he [was] the priest of the most high God.
19. And he blessed him, and said, Blessed [be] Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth:
20. And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all.
This was before the Law was given. The next time tithes are mentioned is in Leviticus Chapter 27.
Tithes were always given to priests. Under the Law tithes were given to the Levite priests who were responsible for distributing the tithes or using them as designated. The priests kept to themselves a "heave offering" of a tenth part of the tithes - usually the right forleg of an animal or a portion of the crops, etc.
The Levites were the priests and had received no land when it was divided up. Their "inheritance" was their portion of the tithes.
Numbers 18:20-24
20, And the LORD spake unto Aaron, Thou shalt have no inheritance in their land, neither shalt thou have any part among them: I [am] thy part and thine inheritance among the children of Israel.
21. And, behold, I have given the children of Levi all the tenth in Israel for an inheritance, for their service which they serve, [even] the service of the tabernacle of the congregation.
22. Neither must the children of Israel henceforth come nigh the tabernacle of the congregation, lest they bear sin, and die.
23. But the Levites shall do the service of the tabernacle of the congregation, and they shall bear their iniquity: [it shall be] a statute for ever throughout your generations, that among the children of Israel they have no inheritance.
24. But the tithes of the children of Israel, which they offer [as] an heave offering unto the LORD, I have given to the Levites to inherit: therefore I have said unto them, Among the children of Israel they shall have no inheritance.
The Law was fullfiled in Chirst. The Levitical priesthood was abolished when the "veil of the temple was rent" ( torn town) That is the curtain in the Temple that separated the priesthood from the congregation.
Jesus is now our high priest (Heb 8:1). And we are all a royal holy priesthood. ( 1Pe 2:5, 2:9)
There are no Levitical priests left to gives tithes to. All of those that have come to Christ now have the same "inheritance". Biblically, the church is not to be divided into priests and laypersons or clergy and laypersons, where an obligatory tenth part (tithe) is given by one class to the other.
There is no mention at all of anyone giving a "tithe" anywhere in the NT after the ressurection of Jesus.
While we are certainly engouraged to give, and there are biblical records of giving in the Church, Paul never uses the term "tithe" in regards to this and netiher do any of the other NT writers.
I don't believe in the tithe as written in the Bible. I live Karma. What goes around comes around. I do however give $ money to the Church I frequent. Their outreach to the Poor, Aides patients, food drives, support groups...community sevices etc... speaks volumes to where the $ goes and I want to do my part to service the community.
Malachi is right but you are not a OT beliver or it was written for learning not living
What does it teach us
1 that the OT belivers could or would not pay God high priest and working around and in the temple
2 Since JC is the Last High Priest and all of the wokers of the temple so if we do not do as JC teaches we are robing God ( JC teaches to love each other or walk in love)
Now there more I guess and maybe others can give a better understanding
Now giving can be anywhere
When you spend time to teach me or others you are giving
Others see money but love is biger than money
Now I can not tell you what to do but tell people you give with a cher-full heart just do not tell them where or how much you give
one note love of God is greater than all the money ever made in the world
So if you are giving love by spending time with others you have gave over 50 percent in a second of talking time to love others
What to do when working with others not sure but here all I know to say
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Galen
To our experience it seems fairly common among churches to teach tithing.
We do it, though we use a separate bank account for our tithe and give to different things.
We buy Bibles from publishers and stock libraries. Or help pay for medical treatments, etc.
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Raf
Tithing is good.
So is giving nine percent. Or five. Or two.
Or 11, or 15, or 25.
It depends on what you can give and how much you want to give.
The moment it becomes a matter of obligation, it loses its worth. The moment it becomes a matter of pride (look at how much I give), it loses its worth.
The NT encourages generous giving, and so do I. The NT does not require a tithe, and neither do I. Tithe if you want to, but tithe because you want to. The percentage doesn't impress God. The heart does.
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def59
Well
that's where I am at, but my pastor is a big tithe promoter. I am working towards that, because that's my decision.
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Raf
If that's truly your decision, then fine.
But def, if you're happy giving at the level you're giving at now, that's fine too.
Your giving should be a reflection of the life you live for God, and that's for you to determine, not for others to judge. Do you consider yourself a strong believer? Does your giving reflect this? Do you consider yourself someone who speaks and preaches the gospel? Does your giving reflect this? Do you consider yourself knowledgeable in the Scriptures? Does your giving reflect this? Do you consider yourself diligent when it comes to the things of God? Does your giving reflect this? Do you love God and love your neighbor as yourself? Does your giving reflect this?
These are among the standards which motivate us toward generosity in our giving.
Hey def! We agree on something!
:)-->
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Trefor Heywood
It's a cynical fact that those most enthusastic at promoting the tithe are the ones who want to receive the money.
If people want to tithe that's fine but maybe they should split it to different receivers.
TWI didn't think that was a good idea though and I wouldn't be surprised if your pastor disliked the idea too.
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year2027
God first
Hi All
Tithing was a good thing because the Old Testament people had to pay for their priest to eat or ect but-------------------------
1. Jesus Christ is the last high priest and he needs no food
2. Jesus Christ paid for all and means tithes too ( yes he pay-ed for all things for us with his life)
3.Jesus Christ calls the tithe in ___________
Mather 23:23 " Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone."
4 Only other place tithing is talk about is in Hebews as a dead law
5. giving because you just want to give is love giving -v- tithing is a law
Now tithing does not hurt you to do but its better to give out of love not law
Now that is all I can say have fun talking about it
with lOVE Roy
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dmiller
II Cor. 9:7 says it all.
"Every man according as he purposes in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of neccesity: for God loves a cheerful giver.
If you "have to tithe", you are giving out of neccesity. Perhaps you are giving from the heart, and if so -- good.
But to be told you have to do it, and following that "instruction" -- indicates following law, and not the heart.
Reguardless what your pastor says Def, I am a huge believer in the "dispensation"/ "administration" outlook on scripture, and I for one (imho) think that he is not correct in promoting the tithe, since that is not what is taught in the Epistles.
Free-will giving is taught in both the Epistles, as well as the Gospels, and the instance of the widow and her two mites speaks volumes. As you know, Jesus thought more highly of her contribution, than of those who "tithed in accordance" to what was required.
Were he (your pastor) to promote giving money freely as you personally determine, I would be behind him 100%. For him to put a "numeric" amount on what your desire to give to your particular fellowship should be is re-instating "law", and NOT free-will giving.
But that is between you and what he is teaching.
:)-->
I am not promoting "abundant sharing" as twi did, but I am promoting "abundant sharing" as each one of us individually determines what that means to us, in our own lives, and as we are both willing, and able to give.
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dmiller
And for the record, I give almost a day's wages every month regularly to a certain orginization, as well as "sporadic spending sprees" on local folks, as I see fit.
I am happy with what I do, and I look for more ways to give of what I have to those who need it.
When you're not "locked into" the tithe mentality, it is amazing how much more you can be open to give, to those who need it right then and there. Not criticizing you, or your pastor -- but it is something to think about.
Give it a try.
:)-->
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def59
Raf
Yea!
I am struggling with this issue. My wife is really hammering at me to tithe, but I am having doubts. I am prospering well now and I give what I can, because life is expensive, even at the basics.
I looked at some OT records and they say the tithe is
1. Produce from the farm
2. Intended for the people
3. To supply a huge feast
4. The Levites were to bring a tithe of the tithe to the storehouses. Which makes me wonder if the teachings from Malachi are right or not.
Other things I have found
Abraham gave a tithe not of his land or crops or herds, but of plunder that he got when he rescued Lot.
Jacob promised God to give a tenth if God met certain conditions, but I can't find anywhere that Jacob ever followed through.
Maybe I am wrong.
And the New Testament is replete with cautions about giving freely and determining what each can give.
Does no one realize that many Christians were persecuted and/or slaves. What were they to give in the first place?
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Raf
DMiller,
Even if one were to reject dispensationalism, an argument can still be made that the tithe is not applicable today (as a requirement). We know, for example, that circumcision is not a requirement. Most of us realize that dietary laws are not a requirement. One must ask IF the tithe falls into the same category of laws that are no longer required.
Gentile believers with no background in Judaism are never told to tithe. James, after the Jerusalem council, never instructs Gentiles to tithe. JAMES! I thought he was the big legalist! Yet no instruction to tithe.
Paul spends several chapters in Corinthians talking about the heart behind giving. The tithe is conspicuously absent.
You'll never catch me saying there's something wrong with tithing. But there is something wrong with requiring others to do so. The NT doesn't.
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dmiller
Good question. That is another reason to show that one's giving should be a heart issue like Raf said.
:)-->
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Goey
I think giving is great. I highly reccomned it.
The problem I have is with the term "tithe" being used in the context of the NT Church.
Tithe is from the Hebrew "ma`aser" which literally means "tenth" or tenth part. Tithes are fist mentioned in Genesis 14:20 before the Law.
This was before the Law was given. The next time tithes are mentioned is in Leviticus Chapter 27.
Tithes were always given to priests. Under the Law tithes were given to the Levite priests who were responsible for distributing the tithes or using them as designated. The priests kept to themselves a "heave offering" of a tenth part of the tithes - usually the right forleg of an animal or a portion of the crops, etc.
The Levites were the priests and had received no land when it was divided up. Their "inheritance" was their portion of the tithes.
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Trefor Heywood
But TWI never taught it as a tithe as I recall - they called it Abundant Sharing and added 50% for good measure.
They wanted 15% of your earnings so that God could use you as a spitoon.
But they wanted much more than a tithe of your time and your loyalty.
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imbus
I don't believe in the tithe as written in the Bible. I live Karma. What goes around comes around. I do however give $ money to the Church I frequent. Their outreach to the Poor, Aides patients, food drives, support groups...community sevices etc... speaks volumes to where the $ goes and I want to do my part to service the community.
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Goey
Trefor,
Never said they did. This Doctrinal Forum is not necessarily about TWI's doctrine. We discuss/debate all kinds here.
Look at Def's initial post. It is about "tithing" outside of TWI where the term is freqently used.
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year2027
God first
Hi Def59
Malachi is right but you are not a OT beliver or it was written for learning not living
What does it teach us
1 that the OT belivers could or would not pay God high priest and working around and in the temple
2 Since JC is the Last High Priest and all of the wokers of the temple so if we do not do as JC teaches we are robing God ( JC teaches to love each other or walk in love)
Now there more I guess and maybe others can give a better understanding
Now giving can be anywhere
When you spend time to teach me or others you are giving
Others see money but love is biger than money
Now I can not tell you what to do but tell people you give with a cher-full heart just do not tell them where or how much you give
one note love of God is greater than all the money ever made in the world
So if you are giving love by spending time with others you have gave over 50 percent in a second of talking time to love others
What to do when working with others not sure but here all I know to say
with love Roy
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