There is debate about the waygb and its existence. If any of you put any faith or stock in me as a poster....I am telling you now...believe what Kit says. The waygb is alive and well....I have seen it up close and personal and it was not a pretty sight.
Not to stir the pot but there is one other aspect of the legal system that seems to be forgotten here, copyright laws.
Some posters, myself included, have quoted various books published by American Christian Press (TWI) and even in some cases other works, i.e. Bullinger, Kenyon, J.E. Stiles et al. Whole sections of these books and tapes have been duplicated here. Particularly by one poster, I will refrain from mentioning his name.
This opens another can of worms if a legal team was feeling aggressive enough. Remember, you can sue anyone for anything in the United States. That a litigant won't win is irrelevant to some. You've still had to waste your time, and money, defending yourself.
Keep in mind, everything posted on ANY website. Can be monitored by our government, for any purpose they seem 'right'.
Galen
ET1 SS - USN Retired,
Knight of the Rose Croix,
Knight of the order of St Andrew,
Pilgrim of the Ancient Arabic Order Nobles of the mystic shrine.
"I live in the spirit of prayer. I pray as I walk, when I lie down, and when I rise. And the answers are always coming. Tens of thousands of times have my prayers been answered. When once I am persuaded that a thing is right, I go on praying for it. the great point is never to give up till the answer comes. The great fault of the children of God is, they do not continue in prayer, they do not persevere. If they desire anything for God's glory, they should pray until they get it." - George Mueller
You've got the right idea about copyrights, with one exception. That exception being that if the poster of the material gives proper credit for the posted material as not being his/hers, and identifying the original author. As long as you give proper credit, everything is usually fine.
The copyright holder, of course, has the right to ask you not to reference, or republish, his/her work in whatever forum you're in. If you ignore that request, then they can sue.
Case in point, there was a web site a few years back (not Waydale or GreaseSpot) that posted entire chapters of a couple of VPW's books. TWI found out and demanded of this website that their copyrighted works be removed, which they were, under threat of lawsuit if they didn't comply. I don't know what happened after that, but that site is no longer in operation.
In 99% of such cases, most authors don't mind being quoted as long as the proper credit for their work is given. They like it even more if you give information as to where you can buy a copy of their work. :)-->
Then again, when you have a cult like TWI who are afraid to sell copies of any of their works to the public at large (Sorry, "believers" only!), you could end up with a royal mess if they decide to make you remove them from public view (sorry, too much light -- Bright light... Bright light... aaargh! I'm meltingggggggggggggg...).
Thanks for the clarification. I always took the warnings literally when they say "No part of this publicaton can be reprinted or copied without the express consent..." yada yada.
It would be a bit unreasonable to try to police this in every occurance.
Good point about authors wanting their work exposed. Unless of course you are TWI...
a. repeated back to you in court by opposing counsel.
b. seen on a highway billboard with your name attached to it.
4. Always tell the truth."
Life gets too complicated 4 me at times. I need to simplify things. I decided long ago, that having to remember the details of lies was just too much work.
For every untruth, you would have to remember it as well as who you told what to. No thank you.
Speak truth.
As to copyright violation; since your not violating criminal law, no law Enforcement agency is going to persue you. Copyright violation us when you copy something and sell it making a profit but no giving the copyright holder their share of those profits. Since it is not a criminal law violation, the copyright holder needs to sue you for that lost money.
Simply quoting someone, without giving the author due credit is perhaps 'not nice', but to sue you, they would need to show that you made a profit from doing so.
Galen
ET1 SS - USN Retired,
Pilgrim of the Ancient Arabic Order Nobles of the mystic shrine.
"I live in the spirit of prayer. I pray as I walk, when I lie down, and when I rise. And the answers are always coming. Tens of thousands of times have my prayers been answered. When once I am persuaded that a thing is right, I go on praying for it. the great point is never to give up till the answer comes. The great fault of the children of God is, they do not continue in prayer, they do not persevere. If they desire anything for God's glory, they should pray until they get it." - George Mueller
quote: Simply quoting someone, without giving the author due credit is perhaps 'not nice', but to sue you, they would need to show that you made a profit from doing so.
Or, they would need to show that you are preventing them from making a profit, i.e. disseminating large portions of a book over the Internet to people who would otherwise have to buy the book to get that information.
You've got the right idea about copyrights, with one exception. That exception being that if the poster of the material gives proper credit for the posted material as not being his/hers, and identifying the original author. As long as you give proper credit, everything is usually fine.
Nomad,
That's not correct. The copyright laws give the creator of original work all the rights about how it gets copied (hence the name copyright). No one gets to copy any of it with or without proper credit unless they have permission.
The exceptions to this fall under what's called "fair use". They include things like:
The right to quote short sections in a review or the like, the right to parody, and the right to make copies of a work for your own use. This latter means if you own a book or CD or video you can copy it at will as long as you don't distribute, sell, give away etc any of the copies.
(Software is a different animal because you don't legaly OWN a copy of software you are lisenced a right to use it under certain conditions).
There are other fair uses but I can't remember what they are.
FYI - I'm not a lawyer but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. Seriously, my ex-wife was in the licensing business and I used to work for her and became familiar with some of this stuff.
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krys
Why do you suppose I often interject:
"Good Morning Mr. Linder"?
There is debate about the waygb and its existence. If any of you put any faith or stock in me as a poster....I am telling you now...believe what Kit says. The waygb is alive and well....I have seen it up close and personal and it was not a pretty sight.
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Dot Matrix
Oh I believe you Krys and Kit!
I posted here in an honest cathartic manner only to receive e-mails from two different people who started off their notes of distain with:
Dear MY REAL FIRST NAME,
So, someone is doing some research!
Thanks for the post Kit!
Dot Matrix
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dizzydog
Not to stir the pot but there is one other aspect of the legal system that seems to be forgotten here, copyright laws.
Some posters, myself included, have quoted various books published by American Christian Press (TWI) and even in some cases other works, i.e. Bullinger, Kenyon, J.E. Stiles et al. Whole sections of these books and tapes have been duplicated here. Particularly by one poster, I will refrain from mentioning his name.
This opens another can of worms if a legal team was feeling aggressive enough. Remember, you can sue anyone for anything in the United States. That a litigant won't win is irrelevant to some. You've still had to waste your time, and money, defending yourself.
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fortunateone
I have practiced life under the premise that anything you say can be used against you.
Likewise, the lawyers themselves always suggest
"get it in writing", cause that can be used
even better.
FORTUNATEONE to be out of TWI
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Ham
Some of the stories I have read about abuse from TWI SHOULD end up in a court.
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simpleton
It would be nice if TWI would be shut down because of so many lawsuits. If they settlements don't kill them their own lawyer fees should.
Do you think TWI's lawyers laugh all the way to the bank because of the stupid little cult they get paid to protect?
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Galen
Keep in mind, everything posted on ANY website. Can be monitored by our government, for any purpose they seem 'right'.
Galen
ET1 SS - USN Retired,
Knight of the Rose Croix,
Knight of the order of St Andrew,
Pilgrim of the Ancient Arabic Order Nobles of the mystic shrine.
"I live in the spirit of prayer. I pray as I walk, when I lie down, and when I rise. And the answers are always coming. Tens of thousands of times have my prayers been answered. When once I am persuaded that a thing is right, I go on praying for it. the great point is never to give up till the answer comes. The great fault of the children of God is, they do not continue in prayer, they do not persevere. If they desire anything for God's glory, they should pray until they get it." - George Mueller
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excathedra
be careful who you court here. it will show up in posts!
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
okay never mind
okay! i said
i thought it was funny
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Steve!
Excathie - I thought it was funny too! and oh so true!
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excathedra
you should know
;)-->
(i was even going to mention you guys ha ha ha ha ha ha ha)
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Pirate1974
I could not possibly care less if twi is recording what I write here.
In fact, I think I'm going to start posting under my real name:
Craig Martindale
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excathedra
well then craig, i'm going to use my real photo
i'll just put it here for now since it's following my handle all around the place
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Tom Strange
well then Craig, Rosie... here's my real pic...
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excathedra
oh my
my new guru
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Nomad888
Dizzydog,
You've got the right idea about copyrights, with one exception. That exception being that if the poster of the material gives proper credit for the posted material as not being his/hers, and identifying the original author. As long as you give proper credit, everything is usually fine.
The copyright holder, of course, has the right to ask you not to reference, or republish, his/her work in whatever forum you're in. If you ignore that request, then they can sue.
Case in point, there was a web site a few years back (not Waydale or GreaseSpot) that posted entire chapters of a couple of VPW's books. TWI found out and demanded of this website that their copyrighted works be removed, which they were, under threat of lawsuit if they didn't comply. I don't know what happened after that, but that site is no longer in operation.
In 99% of such cases, most authors don't mind being quoted as long as the proper credit for their work is given. They like it even more if you give information as to where you can buy a copy of their work.
:)-->
Then again, when you have a cult like TWI who are afraid to sell copies of any of their works to the public at large (Sorry, "believers" only!), you could end up with a royal mess if they decide to make you remove them from public view (sorry, too much light -- Bright light... Bright light... aaargh! I'm meltingggggggggggggg...).
My 2 cents...
Nomad888
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Catcup
My rules (for what it's worth):
1. Tell the truth.
2. Tell the truth.
3. Don't say anything here you wouldn't want
a. repeated back to you in court by opposing counsel.
b. seen on a highway billboard with your name attached to it.
4. Always tell the truth.
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Tom Strange
I always heard those rules for inter-office email as well... well, at least rule number 3
...big hitter the lama...
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dizzydog
Nomad,
Thanks for the clarification. I always took the warnings literally when they say "No part of this publicaton can be reprinted or copied without the express consent..." yada yada.
It would be a bit unreasonable to try to police this in every occurance.
Good point about authors wanting their work exposed. Unless of course you are TWI...
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TheManOfa Thousand ScreenNames
Choo, choo.........
Hey Cat, glad to see you're still around.
:)-->
We return you now........
The lessons repeat until they are learned.
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Galen
Catcup:
"My rules (for what it's worth):
1. Tell the truth.
2. Tell the truth.
3. Don't say anything here you wouldn't want
a. repeated back to you in court by opposing counsel.
b. seen on a highway billboard with your name attached to it.
4. Always tell the truth."
Life gets too complicated 4 me at times. I need to simplify things. I decided long ago, that having to remember the details of lies was just too much work.
For every untruth, you would have to remember it as well as who you told what to. No thank you.
Speak truth.
As to copyright violation; since your not violating criminal law, no law Enforcement agency is going to persue you. Copyright violation us when you copy something and sell it making a profit but no giving the copyright holder their share of those profits. Since it is not a criminal law violation, the copyright holder needs to sue you for that lost money.
Simply quoting someone, without giving the author due credit is perhaps 'not nice', but to sue you, they would need to show that you made a profit from doing so.
Galen
ET1 SS - USN Retired,
Pilgrim of the Ancient Arabic Order Nobles of the mystic shrine.
"I live in the spirit of prayer. I pray as I walk, when I lie down, and when I rise. And the answers are always coming. Tens of thousands of times have my prayers been answered. When once I am persuaded that a thing is right, I go on praying for it. the great point is never to give up till the answer comes. The great fault of the children of God is, they do not continue in prayer, they do not persevere. If they desire anything for God's glory, they should pray until they get it." - George Mueller
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shazdancer
Or, they would need to show that you are preventing them from making a profit, i.e. disseminating large portions of a book over the Internet to people who would otherwise have to buy the book to get that information.
Regards,
Shaz
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CoolWaters
bumping...
?????????????
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year2027
Hi All
Be careful what you post here. It will show up in court!
I have no fears of Court but I have seen nothing in the Way that I see of value to help others
Besides how they Mark and avoided me for standing on the word of God against their lies
Now if I do bring one of them up let them take me to court because I would call all you for wittneses of how they mark and avoide all of us
Now as for trying to put something in here to destroy another one's life no
And that is the reason I believe Kit wrote this post for
You see even LCM needs room to change and if we give out his address or another Way members they might feel in danger from us
Now I do not see him changeing but I give him the room to change
Now if you want to give out address Set up your own Web page were your believing and lawers watch over it
For this is run by Pawtucket not me or you
Now if I do not like Pawtucket rules to kill a post or let it alone I go to him in private about it
For to post here is a blessing not a right because all rights you have here are the ones Pawtucket gives not what you or me want
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My3Cents
Nomad,
That's not correct. The copyright laws give the creator of original work all the rights about how it gets copied (hence the name copyright). No one gets to copy any of it with or without proper credit unless they have permission.
The exceptions to this fall under what's called "fair use". They include things like:
The right to quote short sections in a review or the like, the right to parody, and the right to make copies of a work for your own use. This latter means if you own a book or CD or video you can copy it at will as long as you don't distribute, sell, give away etc any of the copies.
(Software is a different animal because you don't legaly OWN a copy of software you are lisenced a right to use it under certain conditions).
There are other fair uses but I can't remember what they are.
FYI - I'm not a lawyer but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. Seriously, my ex-wife was in the licensing business and I used to work for her and became familiar with some of this stuff.
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