I know longer accept the Bible as "the only referance point for truth". Because of this I can embrace Jesus Christ on a deeper level emotionally and spiritually. TWI did me a favor by pushing me to look beyond Christianity for truth.
One thing to consider in our understanding of Jesus Christ is the jewish tradition called "midrash". It would behove every Christian who embrases the Jedeao-Christian Bible to learn of this style of writing. After all wern't the folks who quilled the gosples...jewish. Just some food for thought. :)-->
Well imbus, 500 eyewitnesses of his ressurrected body is pretty impressive to me.
I believe he is who he said he was. He said he was the Son of God, Son of Man one with the father, and said he will come back someday.
I agree def59. I believe this as well. But if I didn't believe it, I would find it impossible to believe that if he would say such things which were not true, that he was a very special spiritual man. It would mark Him as the most arrogant one.
"You tell me what you think of Jesus Christ, and I"ll tell you how far you will go spiritually" V.P.W
I'v wanted to post this Question for a while now. The more I read about the historical Jesus and ponder other scholarly writings (on the Gospels and New Teastiment), the more I am convined that Jesus Christ was a very special spiritual man but not the only begotten son of God.
Like other spiritual leaders he lived a message of love, compasion and wisdom. He was commited to his message to the very death. Do I believe he was raised from the dead? No!
I find tremedous contradictions in the BiBle, although I think that there are spiritual messages in it. I do not believe it literally. For me to take it literal would be intellectual suiside. This I did for 13 yrs.
So my question is "Who is Jesus" to you."
Imbus, I have often wondered the same even before my involvement TWI.
JC challenged the Pharisee and so on at age 12. His life from 12 to 30 is summed that he grew in wisdom etc. But what did JC do between that time? He has never ever written any thing about himself. All is prophecy and quotes his life.
Is this not the carpenters son?
Maybe JC was a carpenter?
Maybe JC took a walk to India and learned about the third eye..."If thine eye be single..."
As far as JC being God, well i just can not imagine that God would have his diapers changed! Can you wipe God's A$$. Like God in the person of His Son performing a bowel movement??? Welll I suppose thats a trinnie debate... been there done dat and am not going there unless someone admits that Mother Mary changed Gods pooty pants. :D-->
I am really interested what JC did between 12 and 30!!!
Then why did the second Adam JC die for all mankinds sins and only some will make it to heaven and others will not?
here is my ideas on that : God has truly given all people a choice to worship Him or not.
Adam chose to sin by disobeying God ,allowing sin to enter into his thoughts (mankind) .
JC chose to obey God allowing eternal life to enter into his thoughts (mankind) .
So in my estimation now we have a choice of life or death once again and it is up to each individual to chose .
Because Jesus was exalted as a man new rules where put into place incorporating HIM as a KING and Leader and the ONE we are to listen to obey Gods will. With Adam he as a man had access to God we now need the second adam to have that smae access. Roman 10 and 9. God and His Son work together to lead mankind into the kingdom of eternal life. The sacrafice Jesus did for His mankind allowed HIM a huge promotion above all other men with many perks such as not having to live on the earth with the enemy .
So he is building us a new kingdom with us as the focus and HIM as a king.
why it isnt done I do not know.
We still chose to obey or not to obey just as JC and Adam did the program has not changed.
the fact God has designed some to be HIS before the foundation says He designed or created some to be HIS and others he did NOT .
that is an interesting thing isnt it?
Here is how I look at that, If we chose between the colors of black and yellow we need to realize the difference in the color right? I mean I can not chose yellow correctly if I do not know what a yellow color is nor can I appreciate the difference in color if not given a choice. and to have a choice I have to know and realize what each color may mean to me .
such is the choice God gives us in choosing to accept His idea of making Jesus Christ LORD or not making HIM Lord. we have to know what life may be or mean or look like without having Jesus Christ as LORD< hence those who do not believe.
a choice must know both sides of the choice to accept it readily and honestly.
Jesus Offered a NEW KIngdom not this one this one is spent done already been given away to satan by Adam.
So we now chose. So the answer is BOTH gave us a choice in how we can live both Adam and JC set up the situation to allow us each one to chose which way to go. The ball is in each individual court.
on a quick side note.. I read the other day about those who never did chose or where unable to chose to make Jesus Christ LORD while alive on earth. They also will be at the bema and all will have the choice face to face with Jesus christ to accept HIM as their KING at that time.
Some will chose some will not those that do not will be burned those that accept Jesus as LORD will be rewarded or punished by their deeds on earth whether good or bad and the justice will be met with the call of christ at that time. cool huh?
At times I have noticed the situation to look rather bias and unfair but in reality God gives mankind many chances to live in a manner that is good and peaceful and safe with HIM but it always has been a personal choice from the individual.
here is my ideas on that : God has truly given all people a choice to worship Him or not.
Mind if I join ya? That sounds like only two ideas to me.
Adam chose to sin by disobeying God ,allowing sin to enter into his thoughts (mankind) .
JC chose to obey God allowing eternal life to enter into his thoughts (mankind) .
Thesis/antihtesis.
Is sin the disobedience or the result thereof? If the latter, then what is sin? My understanding is that sin is passed through the blood.
So in my estimation now we have a choice of life or death once again and it is up to each individual to chose .
Still only two choices eh? And what gets me is that a perfect human being would choose death. Boy, that Adam must have been a real duma$$. Would not anyone choose LIFE and all that life has to offer?... hmmm which includes death... even death to have life...kind of a predicament of thought here. Does one really have a choice? What about, "preordained", "chosen before the foundations etc..." "predestined" "called out" ?
Because Jesus was exalted as a man new rules where put into place incorporating HIM as a KING and Leader and the ONE we are to listen to obey Gods will.
New rules eh. Out with the old in with the new. Sounds like a familiar cycle and song.
Surely God won't start that KING OF KINGS crap again. Look where it got Israel. Jeesh, one would have thought of a better pecking order. Who gets to be the Kings Jesture?
With Adam he as a man had access to God we now need the second adam to have that smae access.
WHY?
Roman 10 and 9. God and His Son work together to lead mankind into the kingdom of eternal life. The sacrafice Jesus did for His mankind allowed HIM a huge promotion above all other men with many perks such as not having to live on the earth with the enemy .
Whew boy, that sure is some sweet perks there and screw us that have to live on the earth with the enemy eh! Jeesh mj surely you must think twice more about that statement.
And the RO 10 & 9 trip "confesssion yields reciept of confession" is a whole thread to itself. Sure seems like works that one can boast of rather than by grace.
So he is building us a new kingdom with us as the focus and HIM as a king.
Ya know mj, I just don't buy all that monarchy stuff as a future to behold with great anticipation. I'm not in to spending eternity as entertainment fit for a King. I mean I dig King Author stories and the fantasies one can imagine regarding myth and the romance those times. Hey have ya ever read ... "La Morte d'Arthur. Title: Bulfinch's Mythology Author: Bulfinch"? Excellent read.
why it isnt done I do not know.
You a right about that!
We still chose to obey or not to obey just as JC and Adam did the program has not changed.
Yepper, nothing new under the sun eh.
the fact God has designed some to be HIS before the foundation says He designed or created some to be HIS and others he did NOT .
Yeah, Nothing like a God who is no respector of persons. One could almost stretch that to an abortion issue.
that is an interesting thing isnt it?
Most definetly.
Here is how I look at that, If we chose between the colors of black and yellow we need to realize the difference in the color right? I mean I can not chose yellow correctly if I do not know what a yellow color is nor can I appreciate the difference in color if not given a choice. and to have a choice I have to know and realize what each color may mean to me .
Black & Yellow, that's funni. I prefer the variations of choice as in colours of autumn leaves. How many shades are there of even one colour and variations of shades within shades? More than a choice of two. Even Let's Make A Deal had at least three doors from which to choose. Jeesh, haven't we learned anything yet!!!
such is the choice God gives us in choosing to accept His idea of making Jesus Christ LORD or not making HIM Lord. we have to know what life may be or mean or look like without having Jesus Christ as LORD< hence those who do not believe.
a choice must know both sides of the choice to accept it readily and honestly.
That's not much of a choice to those who do NOT believe OR ELSE or maybe vice N versa... there are more than "both sides", more than "black & yellow". Don't you think?
Jesus Offered a NEW KIngdom not this one this one is spent done already been given away to satan by Adam.
I have often thought... how extraordinary such a claim as well as belief.
So we now chose. So the answer is BOTH gave us a choice in how we can live both Adam and JC set up the situation to allow us each one to chose which way to go. The ball is in each individual court.
What if I choose not to choose between those two choices? Is that a foul?
on a quick side note.. I read the other day about those who never did chose or where unable to chose to make Jesus Christ LORD while alive on earth. They also will be at the bema and all will have the choice face to face with Jesus christ to accept HIM as their KING at that time.
or else???
Some will chose some will not those that do not will be burned those that accept Jesus as LORD will be rewarded or punished by their deeds on earth whether good or bad and the justice will be met with the call of christ at that time. cool huh?
Oh yeah I can't freaking wait to be toasted or even toast someone else. What will it be like... uhmmm... fry em with laZER VISION. Yeah That would be cool.
Or we can go for the ole Burn Em At The Stake if they don't confess, disembowel them first, of course.
At times I have noticed the situation to look rather bias and unfair but in reality God gives mankind many chances to live in a manner that is good and peaceful and safe with HIM but it always has been a personal choice from the individual.
Jesus will be our King for a thousand years not forever .
no foul if you do not chose but the bible says every knee wil bow and chose . sooner or later.
the answer to why some and not others while on earth is clearly to honor the choice and how would we have choice if we did not know the options?
the colors of the leaves is an ok answer and it would fit in the complex areana of how God calls some 30 or 60 or 100 % . but to be called is to be called before the foundation.
I read Gods will is all men be saved from death so it isnt like we are dealing with an enemy of sides of good and bad or better and best. it is simply a choice. or eles they will burn and die and will not enter into the kingdom with Christ.
Sin was adams doing he disobeyed God. very simple one mans error and one mans salvation. The error was considered sin and the result of that error was satan was invited in to our minds and thoughts. the blood issue with sin is another complex subject as is cain and abel etc. and the marriage of other people etc, gets incorporated. but simply put adam is the father of mankind and he allowed his thoughts to disobey God and hence all will "follow" into the trouble it made for mankind. Unless we seek a wiser spirit to "save" us from those same thoughts ie forgivness and guidance etc. Jesus christ.
God as not a respecter is one idea but He always has been a respecter of conditions and situations and has melt justice as God of people would and should. why eles have a God? if two people with the exact life made the same choice one does not have a greater chance of making it to the kingdom than the other. He doesnt pick and chose . All will have the choice at some point if they are called.
if a person is not called not he has no desire or nature to work in the spiritual life realm. he just lives and dies as a man . no one gets hurt.
Ya know mj, we will just go 'round n 'round the topic "Who is Jesus" and relating questions aformentioned in this thread.
I am glad such questions are "very simple" for you.
However, I find the multiplicity of answers to these questions to be more than "very simple". More than black & white. More than the Bible Says. I find them to be as complex as all the information that it takes to make a single ordinary field mouse and so on up the food chain.
So, if I may, I would like to share very simply with you from the Bible, "Who is Jesus" to me.
This character recorded in St. John 20:25 is commonly refered to as "Doubting Thomas". Surely he must have been "Honest Thomas"!!! "Show me the Money Thomas"!!!.
The apostles and other disciples reported to Thomas they saw the risen Jesus. Thomas responded "...Except I shall SEE in his hands the print of the nails, AND PUT my finger into the print of the nails, AND THRUST my hand into his side, I Will NOT believe."
Thomas got his proof easy enough when He asked the redeemer of mankind for it.
I question nearly every bit of my life and day or moments , it is not as if anything is set in stone forever .
The book itself states the bible can not contain all the storys and amazing happenings they shared with Jesus , and it also says we can never know God and His ways are much higher than ours .
I am not saying God is simple or even that the bible is simple yet rather the story of redemption and the plan of Salvation is simple .
So song you write you think as Thomas did when he stated he doubted the testimony of his brothers when they spoke of Jesus being raised from the dead?
well given the crew he was working with and the rather critical depressing days after his murder, who did not?
the two that walked in the garden doubted it was him till he was gone, Mary doubted he was alive till He told her.
It was not about the fact He was the Saviour of mankind but the fact He died and was raised from the dead that tripped them out !!
and it would have me as well if any of my friends had been arrested crucified and buried and then three days later Im told me he was alive and well and talking with us the first thing i would say is clearly yeah sure not untill I see him for myself and make darn sure it is him will I believe that!
------------------------------------------------yet the proof is clear for each individual.
What Proof? I will be so glad a look-see.
to make a simple statement complex is no use.
"Complex" and not confusion. A simple statement can be concise the intended message of salvation but compared to the Plan of Salvation is a complexity that could stagger the imagination. Simple statements regarding Who is Jesus is fine. There must be a Grand Plan.
I wonder how detailed that plan is?
Thomas got his proof easy enough when He asked the redeemer of mankind for it.
I question nearly every bit of my life and day or moments , it is not as if anything is set in stone forever .
The book itself states the bible can not contain all the storys and amazing happenings they shared with Jesus , and it also says we can never know God and His ways are much higher than ours .
I was fine upto... "and it also says we can never know God...". Are you sure that statement is in the book?
I am not saying God is simple or even that the bible is simple yet rather the story of redemption and the plan of Salvation is simple .
So, what are you meaning? Salvation through Jesus is all about God and the Bible. Remember the red thread that runs through the books of the Bible? Yes the plan can be summed in a simple concise statement. I just want to know more of the fine print before I continue to sign any more blood contracts.
So song you write you think as Thomas did when he stated he doubted the testimony of his brothers when they spoke of Jesus being raised from the dead?
Simply put , yes~~~
well given the crew he was working with and the rather critical depressing days after his murder, who did not?
absolutely!
the two that walked in the garden doubted it was him till he was gone, Mary doubted he was alive till He told her.
It was not about the fact He was the Saviour of mankind but the fact He died and was raised from the dead that tripped them out !!
and so the story goes
and it would have me as well if any of my friends had been arrested crucified and buried and then three days later Im told me he was alive and well and talking with us the first thing i would say is clearly yeah sure not untill I see him for myself and make darn sure it is him will I believe that!
Yepper mj. That's why I chose "Show Me The Money Thomas". What I read did not say Thomas doubted the testimony of those who SAW & TALKED & TOUCHED the Word Of Life JC. That was an incredible event of proof. There were plenty of rumours circulated that JC's body was stolen, as well as imposters. The book exhibits instances where JC could change his appearance. And incredibly instantly appear within a secure room. So, no doubt, Thomas wanted to see this extraordinary ressurected body of JC. He did not reject the witness of his associates but rather accepted such a possibility he could also be witness such a marvel of human and divine event.
That is what I choose to accept at this time in my life. A total 360 degree change of view from a few years ago. Quite a panoramic one I might add.
mj, i do believe living a simple life style is conducive a productive life.
If Jesus knew everything and was all knowing as some asert why then did he say that he had to have faith to accomplish what he did? I think we sometimes think that at the cross, Jesus knew he would be raised from the dead like some kind of pop-tart. The truth was, I don't think he had any guarantee other than his faith and that God led him to believe so. To him, it had to be a risk. For him to accept death for us, was the ultimate sacrafice, for he was not deserving of it. Certainly he must have had doubts about it also, otherwise to avoid the cross wouldnt have been such a temptation to him.
Jesus, made just exactly like us in all respects except one, he was without blame.
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def59
Well imbus, 500 eyewitnesses of his ressurrected body is pretty impressive to me.
I believe he is who he said he was. He said he was the Son of God, Son of Man one with the father, and said he will come back someday.
Please don't let twi's stupidity cheat you out of a great relationship with the Lord.
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imbus
I know longer accept the Bible as "the only referance point for truth". Because of this I can embrace Jesus Christ on a deeper level emotionally and spiritually. TWI did me a favor by pushing me to look beyond Christianity for truth.
One thing to consider in our understanding of Jesus Christ is the jewish tradition called "midrash". It would behove every Christian who embrases the Jedeao-Christian Bible to learn of this style of writing. After all wern't the folks who quilled the gosples...jewish. Just some food for thought.
:)-->
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Lifted Up
I agree def59. I believe this as well. But if I didn't believe it, I would find it impossible to believe that if he would say such things which were not true, that he was a very special spiritual man. It would mark Him as the most arrogant one.
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
imbus
posted May 29, 2004 23:45
"You tell me what you think of Jesus Christ, and I"ll tell you how far you will go spiritually" V.P.W
I'v wanted to post this Question for a while now. The more I read about the historical Jesus and ponder other scholarly writings (on the Gospels and New Teastiment), the more I am convined that Jesus Christ was a very special spiritual man but not the only begotten son of God.
Like other spiritual leaders he lived a message of love, compasion and wisdom. He was commited to his message to the very death. Do I believe he was raised from the dead? No!
I find tremedous contradictions in the BiBle, although I think that there are spiritual messages in it. I do not believe it literally. For me to take it literal would be intellectual suiside. This I did for 13 yrs.
So my question is "Who is Jesus" to you."
Imbus, I have often wondered the same even before my involvement TWI.
JC challenged the Pharisee and so on at age 12. His life from 12 to 30 is summed that he grew in wisdom etc. But what did JC do between that time? He has never ever written any thing about himself. All is prophecy and quotes his life.
Is this not the carpenters son?
Maybe JC was a carpenter?
Maybe JC took a walk to India and learned about the third eye..."If thine eye be single..."
As far as JC being God, well i just can not imagine that God would have his diapers changed! Can you wipe God's A$$. Like God in the person of His Son performing a bowel movement??? Welll I suppose thats a trinnie debate... been there done dat and am not going there unless someone admits that Mother Mary changed Gods pooty pants.
:D-->
I am really interested what JC did between 12 and 30!!!
Song
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Trefor Heywood
That's the whole point about incarnational theology. The Word was made flesh and experienced all the inconveniences thereof.
Not sure what they used in those days for nappies (our preferred expression for diapers).
But sure Mother Mary did whatever they did in those days. No disposables and no washing machines neither.
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
Well if the Word was made flesh and JC is the second Adam... I suppose Adam was disposable...
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sirguessalot
the disposable adam...
lol!
and so, the disposable jesus, too.
I mean, did it really matter to him if he was killed?
- the first adam, mortally afraid of death.
- the second adam, not.
and pretty much to the point of insult to the first atom.
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dmiller
Adam (by his own free will) made himself disposable.
Jesus (by His own free will) made Himself accessible.
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
Adam 1 & Adam 2 both died.
Who really died for our sins?
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
Were Adam & JC one and the selfsame?
Why was Adam given Eve and JC no Eve?
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
Adam died because of his sins.
JC the 2nd Adam died for who's sins?
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
Adam was responsible for all mankinds sins?
Then why did the second Adam JC die for all mankinds sins and only some will make it to heaven and others will not?
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
Was Adam destined to blow it and JC destined to overcome and we saints were called before the foundations of the world on which ones sacrifice?
Adam or JC?
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What The Hay
Stated earlier:
Nah.. that's not a novel idea at all. TWI/VPW came up with that kind of thinking long before you and many of us ever did.
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TheInvisibleDan
And those "disposable Adams" are beginning to take up quite a bit of our landfill.
Onto the second stage! -
Soylent Green
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mj412
here is my ideas on that : God has truly given all people a choice to worship Him or not.
Adam chose to sin by disobeying God ,allowing sin to enter into his thoughts (mankind) .
JC chose to obey God allowing eternal life to enter into his thoughts (mankind) .
So in my estimation now we have a choice of life or death once again and it is up to each individual to chose .
Because Jesus was exalted as a man new rules where put into place incorporating HIM as a KING and Leader and the ONE we are to listen to obey Gods will. With Adam he as a man had access to God we now need the second adam to have that smae access. Roman 10 and 9. God and His Son work together to lead mankind into the kingdom of eternal life. The sacrafice Jesus did for His mankind allowed HIM a huge promotion above all other men with many perks such as not having to live on the earth with the enemy .
So he is building us a new kingdom with us as the focus and HIM as a king.
why it isnt done I do not know.
We still chose to obey or not to obey just as JC and Adam did the program has not changed.
the fact God has designed some to be HIS before the foundation says He designed or created some to be HIS and others he did NOT .
that is an interesting thing isnt it?
Here is how I look at that, If we chose between the colors of black and yellow we need to realize the difference in the color right? I mean I can not chose yellow correctly if I do not know what a yellow color is nor can I appreciate the difference in color if not given a choice. and to have a choice I have to know and realize what each color may mean to me .
such is the choice God gives us in choosing to accept His idea of making Jesus Christ LORD or not making HIM Lord. we have to know what life may be or mean or look like without having Jesus Christ as LORD< hence those who do not believe.
a choice must know both sides of the choice to accept it readily and honestly.
Jesus Offered a NEW KIngdom not this one this one is spent done already been given away to satan by Adam.
So we now chose. So the answer is BOTH gave us a choice in how we can live both Adam and JC set up the situation to allow us each one to chose which way to go. The ball is in each individual court.
on a quick side note.. I read the other day about those who never did chose or where unable to chose to make Jesus Christ LORD while alive on earth. They also will be at the bema and all will have the choice face to face with Jesus christ to accept HIM as their KING at that time.
Some will chose some will not those that do not will be burned those that accept Jesus as LORD will be rewarded or punished by their deeds on earth whether good or bad and the justice will be met with the call of christ at that time. cool huh?
At times I have noticed the situation to look rather bias and unfair but in reality God gives mankind many chances to live in a manner that is good and peaceful and safe with HIM but it always has been a personal choice from the individual.
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
mj412
posted September 21, 2004 10:20
------------------------------------------------
quote:
------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by TheSongRemainsTheSame:
Adam was responsible for all mankinds sins?
Then why did the second Adam JC die for all mankinds sins and only some will make it to heaven and others will not?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
here is my ideas on that : God has truly given all people a choice to worship Him or not.
Mind if I join ya? That sounds like only two ideas to me.
Adam chose to sin by disobeying God ,allowing sin to enter into his thoughts (mankind) .
JC chose to obey God allowing eternal life to enter into his thoughts (mankind) .
Thesis/antihtesis.
Is sin the disobedience or the result thereof? If the latter, then what is sin? My understanding is that sin is passed through the blood.
So in my estimation now we have a choice of life or death once again and it is up to each individual to chose .
Still only two choices eh? And what gets me is that a perfect human being would choose death. Boy, that Adam must have been a real duma$$. Would not anyone choose LIFE and all that life has to offer?... hmmm which includes death... even death to have life...kind of a predicament of thought here. Does one really have a choice? What about, "preordained", "chosen before the foundations etc..." "predestined" "called out" ?
Because Jesus was exalted as a man new rules where put into place incorporating HIM as a KING and Leader and the ONE we are to listen to obey Gods will.
New rules eh. Out with the old in with the new. Sounds like a familiar cycle and song.
Surely God won't start that KING OF KINGS crap again. Look where it got Israel. Jeesh, one would have thought of a better pecking order. Who gets to be the Kings Jesture?
With Adam he as a man had access to God we now need the second adam to have that smae access.
WHY?
Roman 10 and 9. God and His Son work together to lead mankind into the kingdom of eternal life. The sacrafice Jesus did for His mankind allowed HIM a huge promotion above all other men with many perks such as not having to live on the earth with the enemy .
Whew boy, that sure is some sweet perks there and screw us that have to live on the earth with the enemy eh! Jeesh mj surely you must think twice more about that statement.
And the RO 10 & 9 trip "confesssion yields reciept of confession" is a whole thread to itself. Sure seems like works that one can boast of rather than by grace.
So he is building us a new kingdom with us as the focus and HIM as a king.
Ya know mj, I just don't buy all that monarchy stuff as a future to behold with great anticipation. I'm not in to spending eternity as entertainment fit for a King. I mean I dig King Author stories and the fantasies one can imagine regarding myth and the romance those times. Hey have ya ever read ... "La Morte d'Arthur. Title: Bulfinch's Mythology Author: Bulfinch"? Excellent read.
why it isnt done I do not know.
You a right about that!
We still chose to obey or not to obey just as JC and Adam did the program has not changed.
Yepper, nothing new under the sun eh.
the fact God has designed some to be HIS before the foundation says He designed or created some to be HIS and others he did NOT .
Yeah, Nothing like a God who is no respector of persons. One could almost stretch that to an abortion issue.
that is an interesting thing isnt it?
Most definetly.
Here is how I look at that, If we chose between the colors of black and yellow we need to realize the difference in the color right? I mean I can not chose yellow correctly if I do not know what a yellow color is nor can I appreciate the difference in color if not given a choice. and to have a choice I have to know and realize what each color may mean to me .
Black & Yellow, that's funni. I prefer the variations of choice as in colours of autumn leaves. How many shades are there of even one colour and variations of shades within shades? More than a choice of two. Even Let's Make A Deal had at least three doors from which to choose. Jeesh, haven't we learned anything yet!!!
such is the choice God gives us in choosing to accept His idea of making Jesus Christ LORD or not making HIM Lord. we have to know what life may be or mean or look like without having Jesus Christ as LORD< hence those who do not believe.
a choice must know both sides of the choice to accept it readily and honestly.
That's not much of a choice to those who do NOT believe OR ELSE or maybe vice N versa... there are more than "both sides", more than "black & yellow". Don't you think?
Jesus Offered a NEW KIngdom not this one this one is spent done already been given away to satan by Adam.
I have often thought... how extraordinary such a claim as well as belief.
So we now chose. So the answer is BOTH gave us a choice in how we can live both Adam and JC set up the situation to allow us each one to chose which way to go. The ball is in each individual court.
What if I choose not to choose between those two choices? Is that a foul?
on a quick side note.. I read the other day about those who never did chose or where unable to chose to make Jesus Christ LORD while alive on earth. They also will be at the bema and all will have the choice face to face with Jesus christ to accept HIM as their KING at that time.
or else???
Some will chose some will not those that do not will be burned those that accept Jesus as LORD will be rewarded or punished by their deeds on earth whether good or bad and the justice will be met with the call of christ at that time. cool huh?
Oh yeah I can't freaking wait to be toasted or even toast someone else. What will it be like... uhmmm... fry em with laZER VISION. Yeah That would be cool.
Or we can go for the ole Burn Em At The Stake if they don't confess, disembowel them first, of course.
At times I have noticed the situation to look rather bias and unfair but in reality God gives mankind many chances to live in a manner that is good and peaceful and safe with HIM but it always has been a personal choice from the individual.
ABSOLUTELY
Rok On~~~
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mj412
Jesus will be our King for a thousand years not forever .
no foul if you do not chose but the bible says every knee wil bow and chose . sooner or later.
the answer to why some and not others while on earth is clearly to honor the choice and how would we have choice if we did not know the options?
the colors of the leaves is an ok answer and it would fit in the complex areana of how God calls some 30 or 60 or 100 % . but to be called is to be called before the foundation.
I read Gods will is all men be saved from death so it isnt like we are dealing with an enemy of sides of good and bad or better and best. it is simply a choice. or eles they will burn and die and will not enter into the kingdom with Christ.
Sin was adams doing he disobeyed God. very simple one mans error and one mans salvation. The error was considered sin and the result of that error was satan was invited in to our minds and thoughts. the blood issue with sin is another complex subject as is cain and abel etc. and the marriage of other people etc, gets incorporated. but simply put adam is the father of mankind and he allowed his thoughts to disobey God and hence all will "follow" into the trouble it made for mankind. Unless we seek a wiser spirit to "save" us from those same thoughts ie forgivness and guidance etc. Jesus christ.
God as not a respecter is one idea but He always has been a respecter of conditions and situations and has melt justice as God of people would and should. why eles have a God? if two people with the exact life made the same choice one does not have a greater chance of making it to the kingdom than the other. He doesnt pick and chose . All will have the choice at some point if they are called.
if a person is not called not he has no desire or nature to work in the spiritual life realm. he just lives and dies as a man . no one gets hurt.
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
mj412~
Ya know mj, we will just go 'round n 'round the topic "Who is Jesus" and relating questions aformentioned in this thread.
I am glad such questions are "very simple" for you.
However, I find the multiplicity of answers to these questions to be more than "very simple". More than black & white. More than the Bible Says. I find them to be as complex as all the information that it takes to make a single ordinary field mouse and so on up the food chain.
So, if I may, I would like to share very simply with you from the Bible, "Who is Jesus" to me.
This character recorded in St. John 20:25 is commonly refered to as "Doubting Thomas". Surely he must have been "Honest Thomas"!!! "Show me the Money Thomas"!!!.
The apostles and other disciples reported to Thomas they saw the risen Jesus. Thomas responded "...Except I shall SEE in his hands the print of the nails, AND PUT my finger into the print of the nails, AND THRUST my hand into his side, I Will NOT believe."
Extraordinary Claims Requires Extraordinary PROOF!
And I could go on with the rest of the "scripture" in that chapter, but that pretty much sums up my beliefs "very simply".
Rok On
Song~~~
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mj412
yet the proof is clear for each individual .
to make a simple statement complex is no use.
Thomas got his proof easy enough when He asked the redeemer of mankind for it.
I question nearly every bit of my life and day or moments , it is not as if anything is set in stone forever .
The book itself states the bible can not contain all the storys and amazing happenings they shared with Jesus , and it also says we can never know God and His ways are much higher than ours .
I am not saying God is simple or even that the bible is simple yet rather the story of redemption and the plan of Salvation is simple .
So song you write you think as Thomas did when he stated he doubted the testimony of his brothers when they spoke of Jesus being raised from the dead?
well given the crew he was working with and the rather critical depressing days after his murder, who did not?
the two that walked in the garden doubted it was him till he was gone, Mary doubted he was alive till He told her.
It was not about the fact He was the Saviour of mankind but the fact He died and was raised from the dead that tripped them out !!
and it would have me as well if any of my friends had been arrested crucified and buried and then three days later Im told me he was alive and well and talking with us the first thing i would say is clearly yeah sure not untill I see him for myself and make darn sure it is him will I believe that!
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TheInvisibleDan
Soylent Green are PEO-PLE!!!
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mj412
Dan
I believe so. that is why I love people so much today and forever !
just people . it is so grand .
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
mj412
posted September 30, 2004 00:21
(Italic and Bold print are my reply)
------------------------------------------------yet the proof is clear for each individual.
What Proof? I will be so glad a look-see.
to make a simple statement complex is no use.
"Complex" and not confusion. A simple statement can be concise the intended message of salvation but compared to the Plan of Salvation is a complexity that could stagger the imagination. Simple statements regarding Who is Jesus is fine. There must be a Grand Plan.
I wonder how detailed that plan is?
Thomas got his proof easy enough when He asked the redeemer of mankind for it.
I question nearly every bit of my life and day or moments , it is not as if anything is set in stone forever .
The book itself states the bible can not contain all the storys and amazing happenings they shared with Jesus , and it also says we can never know God and His ways are much higher than ours .
I was fine upto... "and it also says we can never know God...". Are you sure that statement is in the book?
I am not saying God is simple or even that the bible is simple yet rather the story of redemption and the plan of Salvation is simple .
So, what are you meaning? Salvation through Jesus is all about God and the Bible. Remember the red thread that runs through the books of the Bible? Yes the plan can be summed in a simple concise statement. I just want to know more of the fine print before I continue to sign any more blood contracts.
So song you write you think as Thomas did when he stated he doubted the testimony of his brothers when they spoke of Jesus being raised from the dead?
Simply put , yes~~~
well given the crew he was working with and the rather critical depressing days after his murder, who did not?
absolutely!
the two that walked in the garden doubted it was him till he was gone, Mary doubted he was alive till He told her.
It was not about the fact He was the Saviour of mankind but the fact He died and was raised from the dead that tripped them out !!
and so the story goes
and it would have me as well if any of my friends had been arrested crucified and buried and then three days later Im told me he was alive and well and talking with us the first thing i would say is clearly yeah sure not untill I see him for myself and make darn sure it is him will I believe that!
Yepper mj. That's why I chose "Show Me The Money Thomas". What I read did not say Thomas doubted the testimony of those who SAW & TALKED & TOUCHED the Word Of Life JC. That was an incredible event of proof. There were plenty of rumours circulated that JC's body was stolen, as well as imposters. The book exhibits instances where JC could change his appearance. And incredibly instantly appear within a secure room. So, no doubt, Thomas wanted to see this extraordinary ressurected body of JC. He did not reject the witness of his associates but rather accepted such a possibility he could also be witness such a marvel of human and divine event.
That is what I choose to accept at this time in my life. A total 360 degree change of view from a few years ago. Quite a panoramic one I might add.
mj, i do believe living a simple life style is conducive a productive life.
that is for sure!
My sanctuary is the oceans edge.
yes, i do try from time to time to walk on water
i just need a little more practice
Rok On~~~
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sky4it
If Jesus knew everything and was all knowing as some asert why then did he say that he had to have faith to accomplish what he did? I think we sometimes think that at the cross, Jesus knew he would be raised from the dead like some kind of pop-tart. The truth was, I don't think he had any guarantee other than his faith and that God led him to believe so. To him, it had to be a risk. For him to accept death for us, was the ultimate sacrafice, for he was not deserving of it. Certainly he must have had doubts about it also, otherwise to avoid the cross wouldnt have been such a temptation to him.
Jesus, made just exactly like us in all respects except one, he was without blame.
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