I got tangled hair, too. BTW, Just knowing that you are around and maybe getting something out of it is "saying something". I appreciate it.
And Roy:
I loved it!! "...a holy breath sun burn" :D-->
Amen to that. Living under the shade of the scriptures is fine if you have sensitive skin, like that of a baby... but we were made to be able to take direct sunlight...
I think our eyes get accustomed to seeing in the shade (a drkness/light mix). Then when we venture out, we need those sunglasses that wrap around to stop the light from the side from spilling in.
Some of the stuff I stick in these posts kind of came from the periphery vision... you know. Not on center - but part of the picture for sure.
Gee, Ex (And Sir Guess), I appear to have stuck a fork through the heart of this thread... :(-->
Killing a thread is much easier for me than keeping one going!
:o-->
I wondered if folks thought "That TGN... he is over there talking like he has all this stuff figured out. Who does he think he is, anyway? He is blind leading the blind. He has no answers."
I do know this much, the great topics of life rarely get talked about in such a public forum. And I gravitate towards those who want to discuss, rather than debate. I wish there were more who wanted to come forward and discuss some of this stuff.
I am quite sure that most of what I wrote, is - at best - partial knowledge. The other stuff, is probably just pain off in left field.
I remember reading Emerson: "To be great, is to be mis-understood". (No inference here being made of personal greatness). I got to thinking about God.
Talk about being mis-understood! If His ways are not our ways, etc... then just how much do we REALLY think we understand, anyway?
Most of this stuff is what I have learned after I thought I knew. So, on this, my second go around, (Like you Ex.. to Hell and Back – twice) I am not as naive as I used to be.
Like Sir Guess said in one post, “Are you ready to debate this stuff…? ‘Cause I’m not.”
Me neither. I claim very little “full light”. Just trying to interpret what I THINK I understand. Trying to interpret my own tongue that wags in my own heart. Just ‘talkin’.
Ya know?
But it looks like I'm talking to myself. A sure sign of mental illness. ;)-->
I tell you what I like to do is get others to think out side the box of the bible
For am all ways blessed to read your post because they make me think
Now I tell you I try not to get in debates too but I am still a baby when it comes to living the truth Like Christ Did for I still fall alot
I love to hear God teach me one on one
Like words prophecies
quote:For here I sat with Jesus Christ on my right and God in Jesus Christ telling Christ what to teach me this day of my earthly life For I long to hear the truths that come from above
I tell you my brother that I love you and it is a great blessing to teach you all truths For love is the foundation of all things For without love there would be nothing
For God created the heavens and the earth because He long for some thing to love He created animal life to be love as a pet He created mankind to be love as a son or sister
Now I tell you God loves all life There is life in a rock, there is life in the stars, there is life in the dirt, there is life in the plants, there is life in the waters, there is life in the animals, there is life in the angels, there is life in mankind, and there is life in the spirit
God is author of all life and without God there is no life and God is true life but the devil is death and in the devil life is death which came by a lie and hate
Now I tell you the devil hates all life and loves death There is death in rock, there is death in the stars, there is death in the dirt, there is death in the plants, there is death in the waters, there is death in the animals, there is death in the falling angels, there is death in mankind, and there is death in the spirit of darkness
For we were born with a dead spirit but when our spirit was made alive by new spirit we became sons of God By the natural death of Jesus and the power of his blood The victory over death was won and he became the Christ
Now when we make the Christ lord in our lives and believe he rose from the dead we win over death For the man of old won over death by believering in the first coming of Christ We win by believing he rose
For he rose on the third day which show that he was completely dead and being seen by three first show him being completely alive and for evermore he lives
For this Christ has taught many that search for the truth For all truth come from Christ sending it and all true understanding come from Christ giving us the knowledge and the wisdom we ask for
For God has giving Christ all wisdom and knowledge for to teach us and Christ has all truths which never change to teach us from
We just need to ask and it will be giving more than we can hold is there to be received Now there are truths that are to be not known or taught at this time
Now I tell you that you are living in the last times I will come back in your life time but not all who be alive to day will be alive that day
For my love goes out to you as you learn how to talk in the perfect love of the spirit For you are the true lights of the world For the sun and the stars shine for your understanding
All things in earth and in the heavens are for you to understand spiritual things by For the sun shines on the plants so they can grow and the plants reach for the sun because the sun gives them strength
The sun loves the plants and the plants love the sun Man gives the plants their air to breath and the plants give man his air to breath
God gives every thing there breath and without God is no love For love came by God’s love and stays by God’s love For we love each other because God loves us
with love Roy
May God the Father, Holy Breath the Mother, and Jesus Christ the Brother give you the saints the brothers and sisters of Christ love, grace, joy and peace
And sometimes it just takes a few days or a week to get back here.
(sometimes even a month)
One could write for years on this subject of “interpreting tongues of angels via the Book of Revelation” (or whatever else you might wanna call it). But I haven’t even really started yet. Because there are biological realities triggered by understanding things in there that can really shake up a person’s life.
But gifts of healing are nourished by longsuffering.
Like watching and waiting for the signs of the seasons.
And the best miracles are triggered with the gentleness of a massage.
Knowing just where to apply pressure with your fingertip before you start an avalanche.
:)-->
E,
Truth is, I don’t what to say either.
Yet, there is so much to write.
So I lurk and browse and read and lick my finger and hold it to the wind.
Hoping to catch a clue as to what makes the most sense now.
And the responses on this thread are the best thing I have to go by.
So I appreciate you (and the rest) more than you probably know, too. Tanks.
One day, yer trying to crack the nut of life via PFAL.
The next day, you turn around and discover that yer already standing on a lower branch of a huge phukking tree!
Even the very winds you breath are shaped by its leaves and branches.
You realize that THE nut has long been cracked. ;)-->
btw - the best way to comb tangles from a woman’s hair is to start untangling from the base of her spine. Move upward from the lamp of Ephesus, where the mind of Christ begins its climb. If we first massage out the kinks in Ephesus, and then Smyrna, and then the rest of the way up…we avoid the pain of yanking a bunch of hair out from the top.
I do hope to get to all this someday.
;)-->
…
I hear ya, Roy.
Lets get baked.
Like lizards on a rock.
Soak’n up the final heat of this day’s holy breath.
Before the sun sets again.
This reminds me of how Peter interpreted the meaning of the tongues of Pentecost.
He spoke of a great day coming to an end (a day on the big clock).
He spoke of seeing the sun turning to darkness.
Elsewhere, he wrote of a divine day being like 1000 years.
And remember, a night always precedes a day.
Paul too.
He wrote of how “the day” was nearly spent.
Make the most of what’s left.
In the sunset of the understanding of the Piscean mind of Christ,
there was about a century of this twilight zone,
About 3 generations from the touchdown to “the final wink,”
And then the Piscean day of the Lord begun in a blink. ;)-->
Twilight is the best time for a full spectrum of divine revelation (like Noah’s).
John at Patmos saw the final rays of it.
And this john doe saw it cuz he had no mote in his eye.
He was deep in meditation that day.
He saw the marriage procession of Christ change hands among the 24 elders.
The moment the new bride and groom was born.
And the moment the entire universe finished its change.
A new “day of the lord” always begins in darkness.
Not light.
This is also what Peter was saying.
And a period of almost universal stupidity followed.
The west spent a millenia in the dark ages.
But we’re always left with candles in the dark.
And not some new candles.
But the same ones that have been burning since the beginning.
Kept burning by a faithful priest, in the same order as Melchizadek.
So the thus-far wisdom of Christ is always preserved…in hair like snow.
The temple of God is never without light.
And when the piscean sun did finally “rise,”
mankind found what new thing had been left in the night.
The so the little fish finally discovered what the whole ocean looked like.
And the apostles finally cast their nets.
;)-->
IMO, an entire age has come and gone since Jesus was crucified.
And, as always, we continue to move from day to day to day.
We are entering a new 1000 year era of darkness and ignorance.
Maybe I’ll be more careful around that button again. ;)-->
Politics and overall society stuff is a tough conversation for me.
For you, too, I’m sure.
Talk about seeing blood, fire and smoke…
And I know we’re not talking politics, per se,
but we sure are touching it a lot. Real close.
But I’m not ready for that one yet, here.
Though I know it is relevent to what weer writing about.
Hard to avoid it sometimes.
And I am glad you were able to.
That’s what I started this thread is for.
And you brought up a ton of other stuff I wish I had the time to write about.
Right now, I’m most interested in writing about “where that spiral breaks.”
Cuz it seems the most pressing matter of all.
And I’ve circled the subject long enough.
“…where the spiral breaks” seems like a good branch to land on.
IMO, the “spiral” breaks in the middle.
I wrote a little bit about it at the top of this page, regarding Thyatira.
Although, in a negative sense.
…
Our awareness of Christ (and what that means) develops as our understanding develops.
We move from oneness to twoness to threeness to fourness, etc…
And our Christ-consciousness develops just as our flesh did.
The 7 seals represent the stages of what bible fans refer to as being “born again.”
Our consciousness begins at Ephesus, like a white horse riding forth to conquer.
Thyatira is where eternal consciousness is conceived (or not).
And we are NOT born again until the seventh seal is broken.
But I’ve read many who write that Philadelphia (the 6th) is the “best” church of them all. Seems to me they missed the point. They see nakedness and poverty as a bad thing.
I say…pass out the cigars and celebrate. :)-->
To truly “master” something like the 7 lamps of the temple of Christ, we have to realize that just when we’ve arrived at the end, we’ve only just begun.
But pride will keep us from this all the time.
Regardless of how much pride we say we do not have.
The truth of the matter is within us.
God is not fooled.
…
But I digress…
The cycle of the 4 horsemen ends with Thyatira.
This is the cycle of the carnal mind.
Fate, if you will.
But we can only believe what we understand.
If we do NOT want to understand things that sound anything like “astrology” and “reincarnation,” Thyatira is probably just a trip back to Ephesus.
Back to the cycle of mortal understanding.
But by grace, we have a million shots at it.
If we think we can be in complete control of our lives,
and that we are somehow a product of all our choices,
then we do not understand our fate--our place.
We may have no compassion for the weak-willed.
We may see no godly purpose in death or pain.
Failure is NOT an option.
Then the fourth horseman is still a seal on our understanding.
We have not been given the keys to Death and Hell.
But the 4th seal breaking is like entering a cocoon.
Learning to surrender to fate.
Learning to embrace winter, from whence we came.
Understanding the eternal nature of life allows us to live and die with grace.
To understand how the “we” which we think “we” are is only the latest season of our greater selves...
When the seasons are no longer wrestled with,
our faith can finally be planted in the earth,
like a body buried in a grave,
gifts of healing can finally take root under the earth where no one can see them.
Escape velocity of our understanding comes when we embrace the “fourness” of God’s cycles of death and birth. And this, we can observe in all of life. In the stars. In the seasons. In a woman's body.
Its how Jesus The Christ did it (when he was yet a child).
He surrendered to his fate,
rather than tried to conquer it,
beat it into submission,
and put it to work.
Then we can get onto facing the dragons and beasties (in Sardis and beyond).
I wouldn't want to face them before it.
The trumpet of Thyatira stimulates compassion and balances emotions.
Its location is the heart and lungs.
You can feel it when you sigh deeply.
It is the center of our being.
Its is the union between heaven and earth.
The yoga, if you will.
...
But I digress again, there are still 3 lower lamps to understand.
I just wanted to address the CROSSroads.
The compassion of Thyatira helps us heal those 3 lower parts of our mind,
(with issues like hunger, pleasure and control).
Together, the four horsemen (instincts) pull in all four directions.
To "tame" them is to square an altar to worship on.
Then we will have equilibrium.
A level ground with which to ascend from.
A sundial, if you will.
…
Some might say this is all too “new age.”
But the books of the Bible and The Christ of the Bible teaches of many ages, new and old.
Besides, most of this stuff is older than the Bible.
Nothing new about it at all.
Some of it is from the Kabbala and the Essenes,
both of which are Abrahamic.
:)-->
[This message was edited by sirguessalot on March 03, 2004 at 3:23.]
Oh, I'm still here. :)--> But like excathedra, I hardly know what to say. I'm just starting to let myself go to free-form thinking.....beginner's mind.
This talk of evil/perception/deception/darkness really got me going. Reminds me of a book I have, The Powers That Be. And it sounds true. Deception has been an enemy since Eden, has it not? Eve told the truth, "I was deceived..." and yet she carries the blame for evil to this day. So people point to another and cry "deceived!" to justify their hatred. When we should be looking within and cry "deceived!"
And maybe our judgment is to have to look God in the eyes and see ourselves as we truly are. And what Jesus accomplished on our behalf. And maybe there are some who will not be able to bear it. A "holy breath sun burn" (thanks, Roy, for that one!) that is too much to bear.
Sirguess,
I'm really trying with the stuff you're posting on Rev. There's a part of me that keeps saying, "He has something to say here", while I try to grasp hold of it. But (and it's not much, I know) I do get what you're saying about progression. Oneness before twoness, etc. And a progression in the 7 churches. But I'm still digesting and thinking. Part of the problem is I'm just not too swift on these things. I mull them over, live life, and by the time I have something to say, the topic is light years beyond.
But this conversation is well worth it. I'm here as long as anyone cares to keep it going.
Post on!
[This message was edited by Square Peg on March 03, 2004 at 12:08.]
That's the one. Read it a couple of years ago and it had a profound effect on my perception of evil. And the ways in which we can choose to respond to it.
And this wisdom is preserved from previous seasons like hair of snow.
At first, I imagine its like seeing firelight through an icicle.
From eyes like a flame of fire (Book of Rev, chapter one).
;)-->
As our word of wisdom grows and takes shape,
We can meditate upon it.
Explore it.
Flesh it out.
Ask questions.
Learn the better questions to ask.
Ever reaching towards "sevenness" and birth.
Not just believing it. But understanding it.
And it takes a certain amount of time in stillness before our thoughts shift wavelengths.
Some say about a half an hour. Not so hard.
And after two hours, we enter yet another state of mind. A worthy goal.
But it just gets deeper and deeper.
Can you imagine 9 days and nights?
Or 40 days and nights?
We reach higher as we reach inward.
And discover that the form of God and Christ is preserved safely within all of us.
Even our enemy.
Christ is NOT hiding in a book.
Though there are many wonderful books that reveal him in a mystery,
for those who are bond to Pergamos like a black horse, and so do not have all this time to contemplate our first birth (i.e. what happened to our bellybutton :D-->).
:)-->
btw, PegX2 - I am still open to discussing things from the earlier posts on this thread.
Also, my email is always open (and I'm not starting a cult :D-->)
[This message was edited by sirguessalot on March 03, 2004 at 22:14.]
Listening to the answer that happens to be a question – is a very big part of learning. At least it hits a very rich chord with me when I think of life.
Children learn to learn by asking questions. The answers only have to be good enough for the moment (not lies, but not the theory of Relativity, either). For most kids, “enough” is “enough” when it helps them to move on.
I find that oftentimes the only right answer in a given situation is “a question”. This frustrates us adults when we start to learn, again, as if we were a child. We have been conditioned to think as if we were children in school, again - that the answer is the BIG deal.
But it is not. The answer almost doesn’t matter – it is the process (Differential Calculus, anyone?). It really is the process of getting there that trains the eye.
Ever read a book with a 5 year old called “Where’s Waldo?” or have you ever completed (in one sitting) one of those cool “I SPY” books with a child? I am convinced those books help you to see. They help you to question what you are seeing. They help you to press in. They help you to deal with the learning involved in seeking.
Most people think that learning happens at the point when you get the answer… and the quicker you get it, the better!
How can that be? I mean if that were true, then all these books should be EASY - just make you turn a page, and then BAM - there would be NOTHING else on it except Waldo. Instant gratification. Instant learning. Instant Answer. No extraneous stuff to sift through… Just a quick, PLAIN, easy to interpret answer.
But life (and those books) seem to lead us to a different conclusion. We are to help one another see. And it is a process. And it takes time.
Here is a recent example:
Just the other day, a young friend of my daughter was standing by one of large windows and in an instant ! Just 3 feet from the window! A Red Shouldered Hawk swooped down, and snagged an early, spring snake. Then he flew to a nearby limb and dealt with his catch. Very cool.
Four of the five of us said “Did you see THAT!!?” We “oooed” and “ahhed” and exclaimed… but the youngest didn’t see it happen nor could she locate the bird on its perch only some 25 feet from the window. For her, it did not “happen”.
She was getting more and more frustrated and felt left out. One of my daughters said, “See that closest tree?” She said yes. “Now, follow the trunk up with your eyes and when you come to the second branch, look to the left. Do you see it, now?” She said no.
So I took my hands and said – “Here. Let me steer your head.” She then smiled wide and said… “Oh – coooooolll!”
I am a lot like that child. It takes time to develop a sense of seeing, looking, finding. It takes time to develop the questions that allow you to see, like SirGuess, said.
Prior answers often become the anchor that sinks questions we have now – if you get my drift. Self absorption – holding on to what we were taught… staying faithful…. all of this is pretty strong glue and holds-fast the blinders that shield our eyes. Its like your neck gets fused or welded into one place and you can’t see the world any other way.
Blinded by prior answers. If we actually required our eyes to see that way… (glued to what we saw, yesterday) we would never find Waldo. Because on the last page, he was… over there… and on this page… (Like my youngest said once…) “I guess they forgot to put him in”.
Oh, the beauty of a learning child has so much to tell us about how we learn to see, spiritually!
I'd vote for a Muppet for president...they have it all in the right places...
I'm loving all this re-learning...started a ''God'' journal the other day...when He talks to me, I write it down so I can go back and ''check my notes'' ;)-->
Saw a really great piece of art in my friends tattoo shop...it's a beautiful picture of Jesus in a white t-shirt rolling up his sleeve to reveal a tattoo of a heart with ''Father'' across it. His face was luminous and happy...that's my Jesus...what does yours look like?
Peace and Love.
Love y'all,
-Colleen
GO VOLS!!
''...show a little faith, there's magic in the night, you ain't a beauty, but hey, you're alright, oh, and that's alright with me...''
In my journals I usually make note of the "mood" he is in (if he happens to be "on-stage" at the time) ;)-->
He is capable of Many Diversified Demeanors
I have known him to be very,
Patient
Upset
Peaceful
Concerned
Disengaged with his surroundings
Encouraging
Animated
Fixated on something I could not see…
Gracious
Considerate
Apparent to some, and invisible to others…
Deeply moved with a singleness of heart and emotion like nothing I have ever seen with my own two eyes...
and (BTW) He is also a great dancer and the BEST body guard you could ever have. :)-->
To me, he never looks/appears the same way twice - because for me, that is important that I see him that way. Does that make sense? Maybe not to you - but it sure does if you know me.
He will be what he needs to be. Because it matters what you believe and which path you take when you come to a cross-roads.
These different perceptions of him helped break the ignorance and denial I had about emotions. Part of "saving" 'ole' TGN, meant he had to re-wire how I would deal with feelings. He is the consumate physician.
He has a "treatment" program designed for each person... to make us whole. Sometimes (in a specific area) it happens in the blink of an eye... sometimes, he works it out without you even being aware of it.
My brother Christ is the ones who holds me when I am sad
He is the one who watches over me when I sleep
He is the one who fights my wars against other men that might harm me
He is the one who call me back to right thinking when I begin to believe the lie of the evil grass being green too
He picks me up when I fall
He reminds my Dad I am just a baby
He feeds me as I need food of the flesh
He gives me drink when I of need drink of the flesh
He gives my spirit food of never ending fullness
He gives my spirit drink of never ending fullness
He does more than words could ever say
That is my brother Christ
Now I used to think I understood many parts of the bible but now I see even if I understood the bible from Genesis to Revelation
I still only understand it in part because words can never teach us the deep understanding of words of truth
For this understanding must come from above one on one and will not be complete until we know as we are known
But for now we walk as best as we can and we grow as we walk on the truths we know in part
For its better to walk on 1/100000000000000 of a truth than to only walk on lies
For God knows the world is evil and he understands we are just babies
Now he loves us like a good mother loves her new born child and even 1/100000000000000000000000000..... times greater
For there is no end to God's love after we have love him back He love us very must
with love Roy
May God the Father, Holy Breath the Mother, and Jesus Christ the Brother give you the saints the brothers and sisters of Christ love, grace, joy and peace
I see darkly from time to time, too. If it ain't workin' - then it ain't workin'. :)-->
I needed a LOT of PERSONAL help to get started in this area of hearing and seeing. But I later realized that needing a LOT of help is common for many people.
I purchased several books by this author on recommendation from our pastor at the time (about 11 years ago). I got into it. (Like most stuff I do..) About 10 of us traveled by invitation from other churches to help people get "activated" in this area. We had some great times together!
It was a way to reach out to others and help them with seeing and hearing. Although the book helped many, many people, most needed some one-on-one help.
I know that Mark Virkler is BIG into doing the basics (be well established in a church, etc. be under spiritual covering, etc.) For many people, I think this is excellent, safe advice.
Maybe for some reading this thread, his books might be one of the pieces.
I live 1,300 miles form that church, now. But I still have the benefits of those people opening their hearts and sharing what they had to give with me.
At this stage in my life, I surround myself with those who also see and hear. And that is one of the pieces of the puzzle, as well. They are out there.
Can this stuff be abused? Sure! And I have seen it first hand, too. (But I don't know anything that can't be). I have seen thsoe who are "spiritual covering" who use this stuff to control people... but after being in TWI, we know what that looks like, for sure. -->
Before you fly, make sure you got all the stuff you need before you try and take off.
Paul knew, because he was blinded by that mirror for awhile.
But we can get to a point where we won't need a book anymore.
We can close our Bibles once and for all.
Because we are literally living epistles, waiting for all the seals to be broken.
No more figures of speech.
(and we can begin to discern those same spirits in other mirrors...like friends, strangers and especially our enemies - they reveal more pressing things about us than anyone else in our lives)
:)-->
I hope to see yall in a few days.
[This message was edited by sirguessalot on March 05, 2004 at 1:02.]
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Too Gray Now
Hi Ex!~
Good to see your tangled hair around here, again!
I got tangled hair, too. BTW, Just knowing that you are around and maybe getting something out of it is "saying something". I appreciate it.
And Roy:
I loved it!! "...a holy breath sun burn"
:D-->
Amen to that. Living under the shade of the scriptures is fine if you have sensitive skin, like that of a baby... but we were made to be able to take direct sunlight...
I think our eyes get accustomed to seeing in the shade (a drkness/light mix). Then when we venture out, we need those
sunglasses that wrap around to stop the light from the side from spilling in.
Some of the stuff I stick in these posts kind of came from the periphery vision... you know. Not on center - but part of the picture for sure.
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excathedra
i appreciate y'all more than you know. tanks.
?
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Too Gray Now
Gee, Ex (And Sir Guess), I appear to have stuck a fork through the heart of this thread...
:(-->
Killing a thread is much easier for me than keeping one going!
I wondered if folks thought "That TGN... he is over there talking like he has all this stuff figured out. Who does he think he is, anyway? He is blind leading the blind. He has no answers."
I do know this much, the great topics of life rarely get talked about in such a public forum. And I gravitate towards those who want to discuss, rather than debate. I wish there were more who wanted to come forward and discuss some of this stuff.
I am quite sure that most of what I wrote, is - at best - partial knowledge. The other stuff, is probably just pain off in left field.
I remember reading Emerson: "To be great, is to be mis-understood". (No inference here being made of personal greatness). I got to thinking about God.
Talk about being mis-understood! If His ways are not our ways, etc... then just how much do we REALLY think we understand, anyway?
Most of this stuff is what I have learned after I thought I knew. So, on this, my second go around, (Like you Ex.. to Hell and Back – twice) I am not as naive as I used to be.
Like Sir Guess said in one post, “Are you ready to debate this stuff…? ‘Cause I’m not.”
Me neither. I claim very little “full light”. Just trying to interpret what I THINK I understand. Trying to interpret my own tongue that wags in my own heart. Just ‘talkin’.
Ya know?
But it looks like I'm talking to myself. A sure sign of mental illness.
;)-->
Best to all.
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year2027
Hi Too Gray Now
I tell you what I like to do is get others to think out side the box of the bible
For am all ways blessed to read your post because they make me think
Now I tell you I try not to get in debates too but I am still a baby when it comes to living the truth Like Christ Did for I still fall alot
I love to hear God teach me one on one
Like words prophecies
May God the Father, Holy Breath the Mother, and Jesus Christ the Brother give you the saints the brothers and sisters of Christ love, grace, joy and peace
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sirguessalot
No need to fret, TGN. I see you.
And sometimes it just takes a few days or a week to get back here.
(sometimes even a month)
One could write for years on this subject of “interpreting tongues of angels via the Book of Revelation” (or whatever else you might wanna call it). But I haven’t even really started yet. Because there are biological realities triggered by understanding things in there that can really shake up a person’s life.
But gifts of healing are nourished by longsuffering.
Like watching and waiting for the signs of the seasons.
And the best miracles are triggered with the gentleness of a massage.
Knowing just where to apply pressure with your fingertip before you start an avalanche.
E,
Truth is, I don’t what to say either.
Yet, there is so much to write.
So I lurk and browse and read and lick my finger and hold it to the wind.
Hoping to catch a clue as to what makes the most sense now.
And the responses on this thread are the best thing I have to go by.
So I appreciate you (and the rest) more than you probably know, too. Tanks.
One day, yer trying to crack the nut of life via PFAL.
The next day, you turn around and discover that yer already standing on a lower branch of a huge phukking tree!
Even the very winds you breath are shaped by its leaves and branches.
You realize that THE nut has long been cracked.
;)-->
btw - the best way to comb tangles from a woman’s hair is to start untangling from the base of her spine. Move upward from the lamp of Ephesus, where the mind of Christ begins its climb. If we first massage out the kinks in Ephesus, and then Smyrna, and then the rest of the way up…we avoid the pain of yanking a bunch of hair out from the top.
I do hope to get to all this someday.
…
I hear ya, Roy.
Lets get baked.
Like lizards on a rock.
Soak’n up the final heat of this day’s holy breath.
Before the sun sets again.
This reminds me of how Peter interpreted the meaning of the tongues of Pentecost.
He spoke of a great day coming to an end (a day on the big clock).
He spoke of seeing the sun turning to darkness.
Elsewhere, he wrote of a divine day being like 1000 years.
And remember, a night always precedes a day.
Paul too.
He wrote of how “the day” was nearly spent.
Make the most of what’s left.
In the sunset of the understanding of the Piscean mind of Christ,
there was about a century of this twilight zone,
About 3 generations from the touchdown to “the final wink,”
And then the Piscean day of the Lord begun in a blink.
;)-->
Twilight is the best time for a full spectrum of divine revelation (like Noah’s).
John at Patmos saw the final rays of it.
And this john doe saw it cuz he had no mote in his eye.
He was deep in meditation that day.
He saw the marriage procession of Christ change hands among the 24 elders.
The moment the new bride and groom was born.
And the moment the entire universe finished its change.
A new “day of the lord” always begins in darkness.
Not light.
This is also what Peter was saying.
And a period of almost universal stupidity followed.
The west spent a millenia in the dark ages.
But we’re always left with candles in the dark.
And not some new candles.
But the same ones that have been burning since the beginning.
Kept burning by a faithful priest, in the same order as Melchizadek.
So the thus-far wisdom of Christ is always preserved…in hair like snow.
The temple of God is never without light.
And when the piscean sun did finally “rise,”
mankind found what new thing had been left in the night.
The so the little fish finally discovered what the whole ocean looked like.
And the apostles finally cast their nets.
IMO, an entire age has come and gone since Jesus was crucified.
And, as always, we continue to move from day to day to day.
We are entering a new 1000 year era of darkness and ignorance.
The darkness before the dawn, so to speak.
Tho after which, may we finally learn to fly.
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sirguessalot
Too Gray,
Tough stuff you write there.
Maybe I’ll be more careful around that button again.
;)-->
Politics and overall society stuff is a tough conversation for me.
For you, too, I’m sure.
Talk about seeing blood, fire and smoke…
And I know we’re not talking politics, per se,
but we sure are touching it a lot. Real close.
But I’m not ready for that one yet, here.
Though I know it is relevent to what weer writing about.
Hard to avoid it sometimes.
And I am glad you were able to.
That’s what I started this thread is for.
And you brought up a ton of other stuff I wish I had the time to write about.
Right now, I’m most interested in writing about “where that spiral breaks.”
Cuz it seems the most pressing matter of all.
And I’ve circled the subject long enough.
“…where the spiral breaks” seems like a good branch to land on.
IMO, the “spiral” breaks in the middle.
I wrote a little bit about it at the top of this page, regarding Thyatira.
Although, in a negative sense.
…
Our awareness of Christ (and what that means) develops as our understanding develops.
We move from oneness to twoness to threeness to fourness, etc…
And our Christ-consciousness develops just as our flesh did.
The 7 seals represent the stages of what bible fans refer to as being “born again.”
Our consciousness begins at Ephesus, like a white horse riding forth to conquer.
Thyatira is where eternal consciousness is conceived (or not).
And we are NOT born again until the seventh seal is broken.
But I’ve read many who write that Philadelphia (the 6th) is the “best” church of them all. Seems to me they missed the point. They see nakedness and poverty as a bad thing.
I say…pass out the cigars and celebrate.
:)-->
To truly “master” something like the 7 lamps of the temple of Christ, we have to realize that just when we’ve arrived at the end, we’ve only just begun.
But pride will keep us from this all the time.
Regardless of how much pride we say we do not have.
The truth of the matter is within us.
God is not fooled.
…
But I digress…
The cycle of the 4 horsemen ends with Thyatira.
This is the cycle of the carnal mind.
Fate, if you will.
But we can only believe what we understand.
If we do NOT want to understand things that sound anything like “astrology” and “reincarnation,” Thyatira is probably just a trip back to Ephesus.
Back to the cycle of mortal understanding.
But by grace, we have a million shots at it.
If we think we can be in complete control of our lives,
and that we are somehow a product of all our choices,
then we do not understand our fate--our place.
We may have no compassion for the weak-willed.
We may see no godly purpose in death or pain.
Failure is NOT an option.
Then the fourth horseman is still a seal on our understanding.
We have not been given the keys to Death and Hell.
But the 4th seal breaking is like entering a cocoon.
Learning to surrender to fate.
Learning to embrace winter, from whence we came.
Understanding the eternal nature of life allows us to live and die with grace.
To understand how the “we” which we think “we” are is only the latest season of our greater selves...
When the seasons are no longer wrestled with,
our faith can finally be planted in the earth,
like a body buried in a grave,
gifts of healing can finally take root under the earth where no one can see them.
Escape velocity of our understanding comes when we embrace the “fourness” of God’s cycles of death and birth. And this, we can observe in all of life. In the stars. In the seasons. In a woman's body.
Its how Jesus The Christ did it (when he was yet a child).
He surrendered to his fate,
rather than tried to conquer it,
beat it into submission,
and put it to work.
Then we can get onto facing the dragons and beasties (in Sardis and beyond).
I wouldn't want to face them before it.
The trumpet of Thyatira stimulates compassion and balances emotions.
Its location is the heart and lungs.
You can feel it when you sigh deeply.
It is the center of our being.
Its is the union between heaven and earth.
The yoga, if you will.
...
But I digress again, there are still 3 lower lamps to understand.
I just wanted to address the CROSSroads.
The compassion of Thyatira helps us heal those 3 lower parts of our mind,
(with issues like hunger, pleasure and control).
Together, the four horsemen (instincts) pull in all four directions.
To "tame" them is to square an altar to worship on.
Then we will have equilibrium.
A level ground with which to ascend from.
A sundial, if you will.
…
Some might say this is all too “new age.”
But the books of the Bible and The Christ of the Bible teaches of many ages, new and old.
Besides, most of this stuff is older than the Bible.
Nothing new about it at all.
Some of it is from the Kabbala and the Essenes,
both of which are Abrahamic.
[This message was edited by sirguessalot on March 03, 2004 at 3:23.]
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Too Gray Now
SigGuess - Excuse me while I go get another flour sack and scoop some of this up and take it home!
Roy - I always enjoy watching someone reach. Thanks for sharing.
One word: Crossroads. The wife and I were talking about this just yesterday.
Say-on SirGuess...
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Square Peg
Oh, I'm still here.
:)--> But like excathedra, I hardly know what to say. I'm just starting to let myself go to free-form thinking.....beginner's mind.
This talk of evil/perception/deception/darkness really got me going. Reminds me of a book I have, The Powers That Be. And it sounds true. Deception has been an enemy since Eden, has it not? Eve told the truth, "I was deceived..." and yet she carries the blame for evil to this day. So people point to another and cry "deceived!" to justify their hatred. When we should be looking within and cry "deceived!"
And maybe our judgment is to have to look God in the eyes and see ourselves as we truly are. And what Jesus accomplished on our behalf. And maybe there are some who will not be able to bear it. A "holy breath sun burn" (thanks, Roy, for that one!) that is too much to bear.
Sirguess,
I'm really trying with the stuff you're posting on Rev. There's a part of me that keeps saying, "He has something to say here", while I try to grasp hold of it. But (and it's not much, I know) I do get what you're saying about progression. Oneness before twoness, etc. And a progression in the 7 churches. But I'm still digesting and thinking. Part of the problem is I'm just not too swift on these things. I mull them over, live life, and by the time I have something to say, the topic is light years beyond.
But this conversation is well worth it. I'm here as long as anyone cares to keep it going.
Post on!
[This message was edited by Square Peg on March 03, 2004 at 12:08.]
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Too Gray Now
Square Peg:
The Power's That Be... is that the book by Walter Wink? I looked it up on Amazon, Sounds interesting.
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Square Peg
Too Gray,
That's the one. Read it a couple of years ago and it had a profound effect on my perception of evil. And the ways in which we can choose to respond to it.
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sirguessalot
Square Peg,
Mull them over. Live life.
The months and years are like ticks on a clock.
We get what we can reach today.
Even as we learn to climb.
Heerz a few more thoughts...
Diet helps/hinders our thinking alot.
Eating what Jesus ate.
Its a big part of getting "washed in the blood of the lamb."
As does learning how to breath air in and out of the lower 3 churches (not to mention the "upper rooms").
Because the clarity of our thoughts are hindered by many biological conditions.
Thoughts are made of things like electricity and chemistry, an interplay of fire, wind, water and minerals.
Meditation helps a lot too.
Maintaining an equilibrium of thought.
Learning the divine wisdom found only in silence. stillness. darkness.
Entering that closet without fear.
We can build endurance in this.
Imagery helps focus our meditation.
The object of our meditations.
Wisdom is a shape, a concept, a paradigm, not just letters on a page or words behind our head.
We SEE wisdom - what we think we understand, thus far.
Once Ephesus is conceived, he is no longer riding a white horse to conquer something "over there."
He learns discipline, and our logos of wisdom manifests and grows within.
Like a tree of life.
The reward of Ephesus when he overcomes the instincts of the first horse.
Which is also the face of the lion.
Ephesus needs to learn how to NEED LESS.
But we should always remember our soul's first love.
Our first love of the flesh is our basic needs.
And our soul needs to understand.
But it takes time to learn the potent questions to ask.
They are more important than any answers.
The manifestation of word of wisdom is our oneness.
It is NOT just some piece of magical information we get when we're in a pinch.
No cookie jar here, baby! That cookie jar imagery came from a beggar and a thief...poor dope.
And once we are fully born again,
our word of wisdom is the same basic shape as everyone else who is born.
But unique, of course.
Our path to spiritual wisdom ends up showing us the same form as everyone else who has seen it.
This is the witness of the spirit.
How we can recognize the spirit regardless of race, language, or time.
Example - The word for "tree" may change a thousand times.
But a picture of a tree is recognizable universally.
Same with the wisdom of God.
A picture is worth a thousand words.
It is the shape of the mind Christ, who is called The Wisdom of God.
Which thoughts, like light, exists and interreacts in crystalline form.
Crystal consciousness is a big part of the book: The Revelation of Christ.
It reveals a lot about the logos of wisdom in this sense.
Crystalline thrones. Rainbows. Prismatic understanding.
Oneness to twoness to threeness, and so on.
And this wisdom is preserved from previous seasons like hair of snow.
At first, I imagine its like seeing firelight through an icicle.
From eyes like a flame of fire (Book of Rev, chapter one).
As our word of wisdom grows and takes shape,
We can meditate upon it.
Explore it.
Flesh it out.
Ask questions.
Learn the better questions to ask.
Ever reaching towards "sevenness" and birth.
Not just believing it. But understanding it.
And it takes a certain amount of time in stillness before our thoughts shift wavelengths.
Some say about a half an hour. Not so hard.
And after two hours, we enter yet another state of mind. A worthy goal.
But it just gets deeper and deeper.
Can you imagine 9 days and nights?
Or 40 days and nights?
We reach higher as we reach inward.
And discover that the form of God and Christ is preserved safely within all of us.
Even our enemy.
Christ is NOT hiding in a book.
Though there are many wonderful books that reveal him in a mystery,
for those who are bond to Pergamos like a black horse, and so do not have all this time to contemplate our first birth (i.e. what happened to our bellybutton
:D-->).
btw, PegX2 - I am still open to discussing things from the earlier posts on this thread.
Also, my email is always open (and I'm not starting a cult
:D-->)
[This message was edited by sirguessalot on March 03, 2004 at 22:14.]
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Too Gray Now
SirGuess,... gotta hand it to ya - You say IT... but I just talk about a pieceof IT.
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Too Gray Now
So here is yet another "piece" of it...
About Questions – (And “Delayed” Answers):
Listening to the answer that happens to be a question – is a very big part of learning. At least it hits a very rich chord with me when I think of life.
Children learn to learn by asking questions. The answers only have to be good enough for the moment (not lies, but not the theory of Relativity, either). For most kids, “enough” is “enough” when it helps them to move on.
I find that oftentimes the only right answer in a given situation is “a question”. This frustrates us adults when we start to learn, again, as if we were a child. We have been conditioned to think as if we were children in school, again - that the answer is the BIG deal.
But it is not. The answer almost doesn’t matter – it is the process (Differential Calculus, anyone?). It really is the process of getting there that trains the eye.
Ever read a book with a 5 year old called “Where’s Waldo?” or have you ever completed (in one sitting) one of those cool “I SPY” books with a child? I am convinced those books help you to see. They help you to question what you are seeing. They help you to press in. They help you to deal with the learning involved in seeking.
Most people think that learning happens at the point when you get the answer… and the quicker you get it, the better!
How can that be? I mean if that were true, then all these books should be EASY - just make you turn a page, and then BAM - there would be NOTHING else on it except Waldo. Instant gratification. Instant learning. Instant Answer. No extraneous stuff to sift through… Just a quick, PLAIN, easy to interpret answer.
But life (and those books) seem to lead us to a different conclusion. We are to help one another see. And it is a process. And it takes time.
Here is a recent example:
Just the other day, a young friend of my daughter was standing by one of large windows and in an instant ! Just 3 feet from the window! A Red Shouldered Hawk swooped down, and snagged an early, spring snake. Then he flew to a nearby limb and dealt with his catch. Very cool.
Four of the five of us said “Did you see THAT!!?” We “oooed” and “ahhed” and exclaimed… but the youngest didn’t see it happen nor could she locate the bird on its perch only some 25 feet from the window. For her, it did not “happen”.
She was getting more and more frustrated and felt left out. One of my daughters said, “See that closest tree?” She said yes. “Now, follow the trunk up with your eyes and when you come to the second branch, look to the left. Do you see it, now?” She said no.
So I took my hands and said – “Here. Let me steer your head.” She then smiled wide and said… “Oh – coooooolll!”
I am a lot like that child. It takes time to develop a sense of seeing, looking, finding. It takes time to develop the questions that allow you to see, like SirGuess, said.
Prior answers often become the anchor that sinks questions we have now – if you get my drift. Self absorption – holding on to what we were taught… staying faithful…. all of this is pretty strong glue and holds-fast the blinders that shield our eyes. Its like your neck gets fused or welded into one place and you can’t see the world any other way.
Blinded by prior answers. If we actually required our eyes to see that way… (glued to what we saw, yesterday) we would never find Waldo. Because on the last page, he was… over there… and on this page… (Like my youngest said once…) “I guess they forgot to put him in”.
Oh, the beauty of a learning child has so much to tell us about how we learn to see, spiritually!
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Too Gray Now
I'm like a kid in a candy store!!
:D-->
SirGuess said:
He is in people... you see them on the train, on the plane, in the line, ....
Like a mystery, it unfolds.
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sirguessalot
Yes, the big book too!
Living epistles, all of us.
Open and closed.
Frequent fliers see this.
The world is full of mirrors.
And what we do to a stranger or an enemy,
we do to Christ,
and so also ourselves.
Thinking of your children...
Lets let only children vote for the next president of the USA.
But only after they get to grill the suitors til their hearts are satisifed.
"But why? And why? And why?..."
:D-->
Makes me want to watch the movie, "Seven Years in Tibet," again.
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jezusfreaky
Todd, TGN, Roy et al...
I'd vote for a Muppet for president...they have it all in the right places...
I'm loving all this re-learning...started a ''God'' journal the other day...when He talks to me, I write it down so I can go back and ''check my notes''
;)-->
Saw a really great piece of art in my friends tattoo shop...it's a beautiful picture of Jesus in a white t-shirt rolling up his sleeve to reveal a tattoo of a heart with ''Father'' across it. His face was luminous and happy...that's my Jesus...what does yours look like?
Peace and Love.
Love y'all,
-Colleen
GO VOLS!!
''...show a little faith, there's magic in the night, you ain't a beauty, but hey, you're alright, oh, and that's alright with me...''
-Bruce Springsteen
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sirguessalot
that's right, the Fonz was jewish, too, wasn't he?
lol!
:D-->
idunno,
sometimes he looks like a lion
sometimes he looks like a lamb
sometimes he looks like a king
sometimes he looks like a thief
sometimes he looks like a sweet old lady
sometimes he looks like a teenage drug addict
sometimes he looks like a vine on a wall
sometimes he looks like a fiery flying serpent
sometimes he looks like Gandalf the Wizard
sometimes he looks like Willie Wonka
sometimes he looks like Bob Marley
sometimes he looks like a griffon
he is known to be somewhat of a trickster.
he has a habit of changing his appearance.
and God is known to hide among the weak.
so, ya just never know.
your journaling sounds rewarding.
just let it flow like you'll never read it again.
write from your heart like blowing smoke on the wind.
[This message was edited by sirguessalot on March 04, 2004 at 2:15.]
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Too Gray Now
Good question JF -
In my journals I usually make note of the "mood" he is in (if he happens to be "on-stage" at the time)
;)-->
He is capable of Many Diversified Demeanors
I have known him to be very,
Patient
Upset
Peaceful
Concerned
Disengaged with his surroundings
Encouraging
Animated
Fixated on something I could not see…
Gracious
Considerate
Apparent to some, and invisible to others…
Deeply moved with a singleness of heart and emotion like nothing I have ever seen with my own two eyes...
and (BTW) He is also a great dancer and the BEST body guard you could ever have.
:)-->
To me, he never looks/appears the same way twice - because for me, that is important that I see him that way. Does that make sense? Maybe not to you - but it sure does if you know me.
He will be what he needs to be. Because it matters what you believe and which path you take when you come to a cross-roads.
These different perceptions of him helped break the ignorance and denial I had about emotions. Part of "saving" 'ole' TGN, meant he had to re-wire how I would deal with feelings. He is the consumate physician.
He has a "treatment" program designed for each person... to make us whole. Sometimes (in a specific area) it happens in the blink of an eye... sometimes, he works it out without you even being aware of it.
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Square Peg
I wish I knew what Jesus looked like.
Lookin' through a dark glass. Can't see a thing. Maybe I'll try again tomorrow.
[This message was edited by Square Peg on March 04, 2004 at 15:24.]
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year2027
Hi All
Thanks -Colleen
My brother Christ is the ones who holds me when I am sad
He is the one who watches over me when I sleep
He is the one who fights my wars against other men that might harm me
He is the one who call me back to right thinking when I begin to believe the lie of the evil grass being green too
He picks me up when I fall
He reminds my Dad I am just a baby
He feeds me as I need food of the flesh
He gives me drink when I of need drink of the flesh
He gives my spirit food of never ending fullness
He gives my spirit drink of never ending fullness
He does more than words could ever say
That is my brother Christ
Now I used to think I understood many parts of the bible but now I see even if I understood the bible from Genesis to Revelation
I still only understand it in part because words can never teach us the deep understanding of words of truth
For this understanding must come from above one on one and will not be complete until we know as we are known
But for now we walk as best as we can and we grow as we walk on the truths we know in part
For its better to walk on 1/100000000000000 of a truth than to only walk on lies
For God knows the world is evil and he understands we are just babies
Now he loves us like a good mother loves her new born child and even 1/100000000000000000000000000..... times greater
For there is no end to God's love after we have love him back He love us very must
May God the Father, Holy Breath the Mother, and Jesus Christ the Brother give you the saints the brothers and sisters of Christ love, grace, joy and peace
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Too Gray Now
Square Peg,
I see darkly from time to time, too. If it ain't workin' - then it ain't workin'.
:)-->
I needed a LOT of PERSONAL help to get started in this area of hearing and seeing. But I later realized that needing a LOT of help is common for many people.
General Info, here. Check this out, sometime.
http://www.cwgministries.org/Four-Keys-to-...-Gods-Voice.htm
I purchased several books by this author on recommendation from our pastor at the time (about 11 years ago). I got into it. (Like most stuff I do..) About 10 of us traveled by invitation from other churches to help people get "activated" in this area. We had some great times together!
It was a way to reach out to others and help them with seeing and hearing. Although the book helped many, many people, most needed some one-on-one help.
I know that Mark Virkler is BIG into doing the basics (be well established in a church, etc. be under spiritual covering, etc.) For many people, I think this is excellent, safe advice.
Maybe for some reading this thread, his books might be one of the pieces.
I live 1,300 miles form that church, now. But I still have the benefits of those people opening their hearts and sharing what they had to give with me.
At this stage in my life, I surround myself with those who also see and hear. And that is one of the pieces of the puzzle, as well. They are out there.
Can this stuff be abused? Sure! And I have seen it first hand, too. (But I don't know anything that can't be). I have seen thsoe who are "spiritual covering" who use this stuff to control people... but after being in TWI, we know what that looks like, for sure.
-->
Before you fly, make sure you got all the stuff you need before you try and take off.
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jezusfreaky
Peg darlin'...
As hokey as this sounds...wanna see Jesus???? Look in the mirror darlin'...He's in you!
And boy are you BEAUTIFUL!!!!!
Peace and Love.
Love y'all,
-Colleen
GO VOLS!!
''...show a little faith, there's magic in the night, you ain't a beauty, but hey, you're alright, oh, and that's alright with me...''
-Bruce Springsteen
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sirguessalot
From first Corinthians 13...
"through" = dia - by way of
"glass" = esoptron - mirror (gaze into)
"darkly" = en einigma - in a riddle
For NOW, we "see" by way of a riddle in a mirror.
Paul knew, because he was blinded by that mirror for awhile.
But we can get to a point where we won't need a book anymore.
We can close our Bibles once and for all.
Because we are literally living epistles, waiting for all the seals to be broken.
No more figures of speech.
(and we can begin to discern those same spirits in other mirrors...like friends, strangers and especially our enemies - they reveal more pressing things about us than anyone else in our lives)
I hope to see yall in a few days.
[This message was edited by sirguessalot on March 05, 2004 at 1:02.]
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Too Gray Now
To All:
I just re-read all of these "What Jesus Looks Like to me..." posts...
They are really cool! Almost like a new "Psalm" - because these are the things written on our hearts.
:)-->
Yup... the Pizzaria is open. People are servin' it up!
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