I so not trust the medical community with my health.
I trust God. in an emergency I would seek emergency care only if really needed.
I do not ask for their opinion so it means little to me. I have close relatives who believe in their doctors and seek consel and care constantly I do not think they are wrong. just not me.
I do not do herbal well maybe a little bit.
I am healthy tho and not frightened of dying so my perspective comes from that framework. I am ready to meet my maker if the story be told and I do not have much patience for people messing with me so I take it as it comes without much say so from outside parties.. If someone loves me Like God I have very little to worry about.
I think those invested in hebal science have knowledge which knowledge is best I have no idea .. A doctor from the medical school traditional has knowledge if it is best i have no idea I have seen good and very bad in treatments. for me nothing works best at this point.. prayer the Lord will be done is enogh for me.. but as far as anyone eles of course I would like them to go the path they seek as best and most comforting in all situations.
my children know better than to allow me to live in fact my son said he would shoot me himself if Im suffering (it is a joke do not laugh if you do not get it) they know if I cant wipe my own butt call it a day for the old mare..
my cat on the other hand will always be forced to have extreme measure in life saving for just one more day with me I do not care if he is hooked to a machine and cant purr anymore no holds bar I will do whatever it takes...
I revised topics to make them more clear, and first meant "Is that better?" (i.e., more clear, easy to distinguish and place yourself.)
But MJ412's comment showed a very important thing: Do you think you're getting better? Quality of life improving? Or is it like a losing battle?
I am out of twiFor me, and, because I have been regaining control over my life in all categories, even the "DOWN's" (e.g., Fred being out of work 10 months, me having a difficult time at work to say the least) are "UP's" because we are incontrol of them -- they are not at the whim of someone else.
(Of course, the end of this race is death or heaven, depending upon your spiritual view which this thread is not addressing.)
Kit
[This message was edited by Kit Sober on November 28, 2003 at 12:06.]
I've been trying to stay away from everything. I keep my blood pressure down with mild exercise, I drink a very moderate amount of beer and wine to help with heart issues and I try to limit my medications to an occasional Motrin.
I watched my mother's health problems snowball as she added one prescription drug to another over the years and I really don't want to go down that road.
I have been experimenting with saw palmetto for my *cough* prostate. For the last year or so, I've had to get up at night to use the bathroom and it's supposed to help. It's too soon to tell.
I also keep a big bottle of vitamin C on my desk at work and I chew a couple when I crave candy. I don't know if the C does any good, but it has to be better than chocolate or sugar.
Vitamin C DOES good. But is not a cure all, as you probably already know.
Saw Palmetto does meet with approval from at least the health professionals I've talked with about it. However, it helps only with BPH (benign prostatic hyperplasia, or enlarged prostate). However, it can mask other prostate problems. Since you have noticed the issue with getting up at night, and if you are at least 40, you should talk with a doctor about it. A simple blood test can detect prostate cancer. It is extremely common in men over 50. I've been taking saw palmetto for a few years and it does help, but doesn't preclude all possible problems.
Rx for diabetes medicine and pain reliever. However, I supplement both with herbs, food management, mild exercise, massage, meditation, visualization, aroma therapy, a long visit to my hottub and naps. ;)--> I was diagnosed diabetic just about 4.5 years ago. With these supplements, my med dosage has dropped to the bare minimum. Yipee!
Of course, when the all-out menopause bitchies hit, I go for the chocolate and salt in the form of hot cocoa and popcorn. It's the only thing that'll help. Trust me. ;)-->
i have been studying and utilizing herbs since the early 70's and vitamins and minerals for about 15 years. As a healthcare professional i have seen much success using these items only.
However, of great concern to me is the way friends tell friends who tell friends they should take such and such and "this also".
These drugs although often not nearly as potent as our present day pharmaceuticals should not be blindly mixed and matched. The early time naturopaths and herbalists taught that very plainly. They can cause serious damage to you various systems should you do so. Also, it is commonly known that certain minerals block absorption of other vitamins and minerals.
I'm all for self care. I believe that is the most important accomplisment of the physician; TEACH the patient how to care for himself and thus his / her family. I only wish folks would do some indepth study prior to spreading the half known truth about various herbs.
I don't know how many people i've heard from that are on a steady diet of echanacia. That's NOT the method. It triggers an immune response. It fails to trigger anything at all if you continue to take it non stop.
So, i utilize herbs and vitamins first w/ excercise. Try to keep my thoughts positive. BUT when all symptoms or signs do not improve i go to the Dr.
"There is no use trying" said Alice, "one can't believe impossible things".
"I dare say, you haven?t had much practice" said the Queen. "When I was your age, I always did it for half an hour a day. Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast".
I don't really think of "alternative medicine" as being an alternative.
Looky, if there was some sort of all-natural, herbal remedy that actually worked, and successfully completed a competent testing regimen and was proven effecacious, it would be published in the peer-reviewed journals of the medical community. After additional testing - with similar results - by other professionals, if the treatment still showed itself to be an effective one, it would become part of the "normal" medical protocols. Nothing "alternative" about it anymore.
So if you're want to try the "all natural" "alternative" approach to your health care FIRST, just be aware that you're simply gambling on an unknown quantity. You're - by definition - playing around with treatments that are unproven. Maybe you'll get lucky and get some good result, maybe not.
Maybe you'll only think you do, and the underlying problem will grow worse. But the bottom line is, you're just shooting in the dark.
No, I don't think that our mainstream medical professionals walk on water, or always follow their own procedures properly. And they are sometimes frauds, crooks, and charlatans in their own right. But at least we have a system in place that tries to address problems and records and quantifies the successes and failures. To work outside of that system, despite it's flaws, is an exercise in foolishness and wishful thinking...
I vote for medical. Nothing wrong with modern science. I say this cause I had a very bad experience with a woman who was an absolute fanatic with herbal stuff. It was good stuff but geeze, it got to the point where I was afraid to tell her I had an itch cause she would want to sell something to me.
The thing was she wasn't trying to make money, she would sell it at cost. It still was expensive and I just didn't trust it the way I do perscription drugs. She told me not to take an anti-biotic for a sinus infection I had, do her stuff instead, she told some lady not to have a liver transplant do her stuff instead.
She insisted she had a healing minsitry and God was directing her to do this stuff. She really believed it too. She really worked hard too, visiting people who were like in their last stages of cancer, telling them to believe they would get healed and so forth.
I started to think she was really going off the deep end when she started telling me that she was praying to God to transport her from one place to another. Beam me up Scotty.
Anyway, she was so difficult to deal with, as good as her heart was, I had to cut her out of my life. She got that bad. Honestly, she really did. I'm not being mean. She was so aggressive and so convinced she had this special ministry.
She really should just have let people alone and make their own decisions.
Anyway, the thing is, this guy she orders from really has excellent stuff. Dr. Shulz. Although he's kind of a fanatic too.
My mom has a a catalog from this guy she still orders stuff from, and she could go to this woman directly and get it at cost, but I told her not to do that. She would end up buying 10 times more stuff than she wants or needs.
OH yeah plus the stuff she wanted me to do for a sinus infection was like 10 times more work than just taking an antibiotic. When you are sick you just don't feel like mixing this, inhaling this, brewing this, etc. etc. ect. You just want to take a pill and lie down.
I sure don't mean to offend our herbalists here but that's my opinion, based on my expericence.
I'm a big girl and can decide what to take for myself.
Cat spelled backwards does NOT spell God!
[This message was edited by RottieGrrrl on November 28, 2003 at 20:18.]
I'm a "mostly natural" person. MY wife has a distributorship with an excellent company called Pure Herbs. Great stuff. It's meticulously prepared, very potent, and good for what ails you.
My older brother was diagnosed with a notoriously virulent form of terminal brain cancer (blasto something or other) a year and a half ago. We sent him some essiac (not a Pure Herbs product, but a storied herbal cancer treatment). He's used it consistently, in tandem with his chemo and, according to my mother, the doctors now refer to his case as almost miraculous.
Of course the drug companies will claim that it was all due to the chemo, but that's okay. By the way, his chemotherapy is a new drug that was developped based on research done with an herbal remedy that was synthesized and patented by a pharmaceutical company. So even if you trust drug companies, you're still getting herbal medicine; the watered down, syntheized, patented, overpriced version.
I don't really think of "alternative medicine" as being an alternative.
Looky, if there was some sort of all-natural, herbal remedy that actually worked, and successfully completed a competent testing regimen and was proven effecacious, it would be published in the peer-reviewed journals of the medical community. After additional testing - with similar results - by other professionals, if the treatment still showed itself to be an effective one, it would become part of the "normal" medical protocols. Nothing "alternative" about it anymore.
Not so George. You ignore one of the most important driving forces in the American medical industry; profit. Herbal remedies HAVE been tested and found to be effective. The most recent was an herbal treatment for breast cancer. The federal govt underwrote the study. When it was tested and found to be effective, a drug company synthesized it, PATENTED it and sold it as trimarin(?). This cause no small stink because a private company is making a fortune off of public funded medical research. (My brother has been receiving this drug for his brain tumor, along with essiac, as I posted above.) Herbs that are proven effective are turned into profitable patents for drug companies. If they became the normative approach, the drug companies would lose billion$. That aint gonna happen any time soon.
I used to be a from the George school of thought until I got real sick for a year. Before that I had never missed a days work due to illness that I can remember. I went to my Dr. and had tests for everything....ultrasound, colonoscopy, biopsies, and they could never really figure out why I was in pain, vomiting and weak. My Daughter finally gave me a test using some litmus paper and I found out I was very acidic. The rest of my family turned the paper a different color when they tested and they were alkaline. She made me drink 12 different waters for a few weeks..silver, copper, magnesium etc. and to this day I am fine and I am alkaline when I lick the litmus paper. I feel great and I can't discount that. Health is something we really take for granted. I was so sick I would try anything. Just my experience.
It seems to me that one any topic, the more 'sure' tha tthe doctors are about something, most likely the more hot debate there is on that topic.
I have never really felt comfortable going to them (medical people), but I have full medical coverage so at least it does not cost me anything. Most times if something is stuck in me, or I am cut, I can usually stitch it up by myself. A few times, I have needed someone else's help with tying the knots. The worst stitches that I have ever had, were in the back of my head. I had to trust a medic and they rteally did not know what they were doing. The last time our son Matthew hurt his face (he did a nose dive from a stkateboard and cut up his brow, nose and lip). I met him at the hospital, and tried to comfort him while the medic played around. they were getting consultations and really taking their own stupid time about it, so I finally stitched Matthew's lip back together, while a P.A. stitched his brow.
On the other hand, I have a duodinal ulcer (meaning that it is just below my stomach). I have some cool pictures of it also. Once each year that have me swallow a gardenhose looking video camera, but in return I get prilosec which really does help my heart-burn.
Bless you, May our Heavenly Father bless you in everyway, in the wonderful name of His son and our brother Jesus.
Galen
ET1 SS - USN Retired,
Pilgrim of the Ancient Arabic Order Nobles of the mystic shrine.
and
'University of Life' Alumni
"I live in the spirit of prayer. I pray as I walk, when I lie down, and when I rise. And the answers are always coming. Tens of thousands of times have my prayers been answered. When once I am persuaded that a thing is right, I go on praying for it. the great point is never to give up till the answer comes. The great fault of the children of God is, they do not continue in prayer, they do not persevere. If they desire anything for God's glory, they should pray until they get it." - George Mueller
First of all, I am a practicing and educated herbalist of 18 years. So, I have seen the stuff come and go. I think I have a pretty good perspective. Plus, I am an oldie "twi-er", which means I studied under Grace Bliss and Ira Hearn.
I come from an upper middle class American family who believed in once a year check ups from the family physician and once a year dental visits. My father had health insurance for the family through his employer. Eventually the family physician retired and it came down to whatever physician in whatever group practice was approved by the health carrier.
Then, as many in my generation, we left home and did not have the benefit of health insurance. Paid cash or went to clinics.
Personally, I have always questioned why taking care of my physical body always had to be the hands of someone else. Then the west coast tried to introduce organics and there was talk about a possible connection between food and health.
I was attracted to twi fellowships because there seemed to be a source of information regarding health, healing, and claiming the vitality that should be ours. Now, along the way (oops, bad pun), I found the bull.... radar detector in my brain went off on such things as "eat what you want cause you believe God" "if you don't feel better after I ministered to you it's because you're not believing big" or, the biggie: "the colon cleanse" in the Corps. I went around asking questions about the wisdom in the type of fasting and rotor-rooting effect of the cleanse and was told it was great!!!! I wasn't so convinced.
So, you know how it goes, you become "leadership" and your twig or your branch is getting the same cold or flu, or "attacks from the adversary" as everyone else in the world. And you pray for "your people" and they don't instantly heal. And you wonder why like the shadow of Peter, you can't have the same effect. So my research project was on health and healing. And I wrote back and forth especially to Mrs. Wierwille of my continuing research.
And then here comes this "new wave" of herbs, bowel cleansing teachers, etc. And I rolled my eyes just like the rest of you. I pooh-poohed, because, just like one of the posts above, if this stuff was so great why isn't the Journal of American Medicine publishing these findings? So, in my studies, reluctantly, I took a course in nutrition. I found a nirvana!
Holy smokes! NOBODY teaches this stuff! Boy, if someone would believe that diet equals health, we could really revolutionize health care. But the physicians were laughing- how stupid! That diet would have ANYTHING to do with health.
I began my studies with the School of Natural Healing who taught that taking a herb without changing diet and taking responsibility for your own health was no better than doing to the doctor and taking a pill.
Once I started to apply all of this information, the prayers for the sick began to bring about immediate results. Those who realized that just as they were taught in twi, that the Creator utilized principle upon principle, began to change their thinking. It was no longer "an attack from the adversary" but the violation of principle in the care and feeding of the physical body. Sure, we had some genetic issues to deal with (sins of the fathers passed onto the sins of the sons), but I really began to see the results.
Of course, in the meantime, the "meals" at the Corps Cafeterias were not designed with wisdom, the cleanse was scrapped, Grace Bliss' training had all but been forgotten. Then Dr. W. died of all things CANCER which we were all taught was a devil spirit.
And we all left or were M & A'd. And I looked at the forum boards and saw the very people that I fellowshipped with having the same diseases, illnesses, etc. as the rest of the world. I wasn't satisfied with that. Cause no matter what, I am pretty well convinced that we are all family spiritually speaking. And I was not going to take my light and hide in under a basket. If I could help, I would.
I realize that there is alot of skepticism. And with what the world has done with herbs and every Tom, Dick, and Harry comes out with remedies and products for sale- I am not surprised. And most of the time, I agree, there isn't a whole lot out there that will "cure" you. What I endeavored to do was to offer my education and experiences, without soliciting products, without being overly judgmental. It was met with a dull thud. Most of the responses were how great the doctors and drugs were and how the poster's faith was in those two things. I thought, my God, do you hear what you are saying? I don't hear "believers" talking. I hear the world talking. Have faith and trust where? Don't you question the source? Is the source a God fearing physician? Are the drug companies really making magic pills?
Well, within the last few years, the questions are truely starting to increase in volume. However, the b.s. in the "herb" or "alternative" industry has caused more distrust and alarm. The drug companies are now admitting openly that their remedy will heal your ingrown toe nail, but may cause nose bleeds, liver damage, heart failure, etc. Of course, it is sugar coated in a nice family commercial with upbeat music- so how bad can it be? The 3rd cause of death in the United States is Iatrogenic Events(translation: Doctor caused deaths). Last year's numbers regarding adverse drug reactions is 2.2 million. Unnecessary antibiotic use? 20 million.
My efforts were always designed to EDUCATE. Never did I say to take saw palmetto and that would "fix" your problem. Never did I say that prayer is not needed. Never did I say that our medical system does not have a place and don't ever go to a doctor. (Their place, by the way, is emergency and trauma medicine). I wish someone had put the health and healing package together for me in the manner I attempt to do 18 years ago. I would be so much further ahead in my learning and research.
I have tried to "preach" taking responsibility for your own health. I have tried sharing that reliance on someone or something other than yourself leaves you vulnerable and compromises your health. I admit, I had high expectations. I figured with what most of us have in common in background and experience, that it would be a breath of fresh air to have someone with some background and a certain amount of credibility. I never promised you a rose garden, or the easy way. I don't expect change to be an overnight, effortless thing. I just did not expect the types of posts that I have seen where drugs and surgery and whatever the doctor says was accepted without question-without the investment of time necessary to research and question "alternatives".
can many times produce undesireable or insignificant effects. But that doesn't negate the utility of a given plant that might be useful developping treatments say for seizures.
And there are of course cultures such as the
Chinese who have a deep, deep knowledge and
respect for herbal treatments though
chinese physicians are usually very well trained and have centuries of information
upon which to base their treatments. (See
Bill Moyers' "Healing And The Mind" for
loads of info on this).
But Compare this to the typical Western herbalist who seems to embrace herbs only as part of the "New Age" movement which ,in my experience, is very lightweight not to mention notoriously unscientific. When I encounter an american "herbalist" they are almost always using store bought books as references and outside of that they have no practical experience ,( and certainly no medical training), in administering herbs for
medicinal purposes.
To be fair, people like Andrew Weil have approached this scientifically (though he is
a Harvard M.D) and if you read his books
you see that he strongly adovcates seeking out
qualified help usually an M.D. so its not like
he is giving to legitimacy to the lay man who
advertises in some New-Age magazine as an "herbalist/shaman". Of course its
these very people who name check Andrew Weil
as if they were close buddies.
Its quite possible of course that you need
to separate the quick buck artists in the New
Age movement from those who exist outside of
that and perhaps have the misfortune of having
their passionate interest in herbs associated
with practitioneers of "Ear-Candling" or "Third
Plane Reiki", or "Urban Shamanism".
I'm sure there are some very knowledgeable
herbalists out there but how would you know
given that there are no licensing boards for
this type of thing so you are pretty much reliant upon word-of-mouth ?
I've had some sessions with
a chinese physician who has prescribed teas
for ailments which have defied typical western
treatments. These aren't like simple teas either. I've got like 20 individual herbs and
plants from which I make this foul,hellish broth
that DOES work for me. Its not miraculous by
any means but it helps. This fellow told me
that he thinks that westerm medicine is most
effective for treating acute situations and chinese medicine is effective for treating
chronic problems. Together they make a potent
combination.
But I'm still skeptical of some johnny-come-lately,self-proclaimed expert who rattles off potion recipes like
When it was tested and found to be effective, a drug company synthesized it, PATENTED it and sold it as trimarin(?). This cause no small stink because a private company is making a fortune off of public funded medical research.
>>
Understand that the patent applies to the synthetic process and its end product. They cannot patent the herb or prevent others from developing medicines based on it (as long as they don't use the same process).
Govenment funding is at the heart of most university research and the expectation is that the results of those studies will be openly
shared and available. What people/agencies do with those results can be used to form the basis of patents. Anyone here can read those
journals and commence new work based on those
findings. This is nothing new and perhaps desireable given the alternative that
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vickles
I don't discount natural ways. I think that doctors and natural remedies can be beneficial. I believe that God put both in place for us.
Ok!! I will not try to be a nice person...ok? I will not!!
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excathedra
i don't really care
gotta go throw a turkey in the oven
gobble gobble
;)-->
?
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excathedra
sowwy if i sounded mean when i said i really don't care
?
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wyteduv58
I didn't vote cuz none of the above is what I do.
But last night I tripped and fell and ripped my arm wide open.
Now what do I do? Put herbs on it and hope it heals? No
I called my daughter and asked her to stitch me up.
She met me at her office and walllaaaaa I'm all stitched up and have an RX for antibiotics.
Taking motrin for pain and am very grateful for my daughter.
BTW......I don't have to pay her either so it was the cheapest way to go too. lol
Dovey....proud owner of two low riders...Dovey's Doxies...... Dovey
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excathedra
ohmygosh dovey another fall !!!!!!!! i remember the one in AZ i believe
you poor boo boo
what is your daughter ?
?
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mj412
I so not trust the medical community with my health.
I trust God. in an emergency I would seek emergency care only if really needed.
I do not ask for their opinion so it means little to me. I have close relatives who believe in their doctors and seek consel and care constantly I do not think they are wrong. just not me.
I do not do herbal well maybe a little bit.
I am healthy tho and not frightened of dying so my perspective comes from that framework. I am ready to meet my maker if the story be told and I do not have much patience for people messing with me so I take it as it comes without much say so from outside parties.. If someone loves me Like God I have very little to worry about.
I think those invested in hebal science have knowledge which knowledge is best I have no idea .. A doctor from the medical school traditional has knowledge if it is best i have no idea I have seen good and very bad in treatments. for me nothing works best at this point.. prayer the Lord will be done is enogh for me.. but as far as anyone eles of course I would like them to go the path they seek as best and most comforting in all situations.
my children know better than to allow me to live in fact my son said he would shoot me himself if Im suffering (it is a joke do not laugh if you do not get it) they know if I cant wipe my own butt call it a day for the old mare..
my cat on the other hand will always be forced to have extreme measure in life saving for just one more day with me I do not care if he is hooked to a machine and cant purr anymore no holds bar I will do whatever it takes...
word.
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Kit Sober
I revised topics to make them more clear, and first meant "Is that better?" (i.e., more clear, easy to distinguish and place yourself.)
But MJ412's comment showed a very important thing: Do you think you're getting better? Quality of life improving? Or is it like a losing battle?
I am out of twiFor me, and, because I have been regaining control over my life in all categories, even the "DOWN's" (e.g., Fred being out of work 10 months, me having a difficult time at work to say the least) are "UP's" because we are incontrol of them -- they are not at the whim of someone else.
(Of course, the end of this race is death or heaven, depending upon your spiritual view which this thread is not addressing.)
Kit
[This message was edited by Kit Sober on November 28, 2003 at 12:06.]
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Jim
I've been trying to stay away from everything. I keep my blood pressure down with mild exercise, I drink a very moderate amount of beer and wine to help with heart issues and I try to limit my medications to an occasional Motrin.
I watched my mother's health problems snowball as she added one prescription drug to another over the years and I really don't want to go down that road.
I have been experimenting with saw palmetto for my *cough* prostate. For the last year or so, I've had to get up at night to use the bathroom and it's supposed to help. It's too soon to tell.
I also keep a big bottle of vitamin C on my desk at work and I chew a couple when I crave candy. I don't know if the C does any good, but it has to be better than chocolate or sugar.
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Rocky
Jim,
Vitamin C DOES good. But is not a cure all, as you probably already know.
Saw Palmetto does meet with approval from at least the health professionals I've talked with about it. However, it helps only with BPH (benign prostatic hyperplasia, or enlarged prostate). However, it can mask other prostate problems. Since you have noticed the issue with getting up at night, and if you are at least 40, you should talk with a doctor about it. A simple blood test can detect prostate cancer. It is extremely common in men over 50. I've been taking saw palmetto for a few years and it does help, but doesn't preclude all possible problems.
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CoolWaters
Hmmm, let's see...
Rx for diabetes medicine and pain reliever. However, I supplement both with herbs, food management, mild exercise, massage, meditation, visualization, aroma therapy, a long visit to my hottub and naps.
;)--> I was diagnosed diabetic just about 4.5 years ago. With these supplements, my med dosage has dropped to the bare minimum. Yipee!
Of course, when the all-out menopause bitchies hit, I go for the chocolate and salt in the form of hot cocoa and popcorn. It's the only thing that'll help. Trust me.
;)-->
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JeffMedic
i have been studying and utilizing herbs since the early 70's and vitamins and minerals for about 15 years. As a healthcare professional i have seen much success using these items only.
However, of great concern to me is the way friends tell friends who tell friends they should take such and such and "this also".
These drugs although often not nearly as potent as our present day pharmaceuticals should not be blindly mixed and matched. The early time naturopaths and herbalists taught that very plainly. They can cause serious damage to you various systems should you do so. Also, it is commonly known that certain minerals block absorption of other vitamins and minerals.
I'm all for self care. I believe that is the most important accomplisment of the physician; TEACH the patient how to care for himself and thus his / her family. I only wish folks would do some indepth study prior to spreading the half known truth about various herbs.
I don't know how many people i've heard from that are on a steady diet of echanacia. That's NOT the method. It triggers an immune response. It fails to trigger anything at all if you continue to take it non stop.
So, i utilize herbs and vitamins first w/ excercise. Try to keep my thoughts positive. BUT when all symptoms or signs do not improve i go to the Dr.
"There is no use trying" said Alice, "one can't believe impossible things".
"I dare say, you haven?t had much practice" said the Queen. "When I was your age, I always did it for half an hour a day. Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast".
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JeffMedic
oh yes, and i NEVER mix alopathic drugs with herbs. NEVER!
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George Aar
I don't really think of "alternative medicine" as being an alternative.
Looky, if there was some sort of all-natural, herbal remedy that actually worked, and successfully completed a competent testing regimen and was proven effecacious, it would be published in the peer-reviewed journals of the medical community. After additional testing - with similar results - by other professionals, if the treatment still showed itself to be an effective one, it would become part of the "normal" medical protocols. Nothing "alternative" about it anymore.
So if you're want to try the "all natural" "alternative" approach to your health care FIRST, just be aware that you're simply gambling on an unknown quantity. You're - by definition - playing around with treatments that are unproven. Maybe you'll get lucky and get some good result, maybe not.
Maybe you'll only think you do, and the underlying problem will grow worse. But the bottom line is, you're just shooting in the dark.
No, I don't think that our mainstream medical professionals walk on water, or always follow their own procedures properly. And they are sometimes frauds, crooks, and charlatans in their own right. But at least we have a system in place that tries to address problems and records and quantifies the successes and failures. To work outside of that system, despite it's flaws, is an exercise in foolishness and wishful thinking...
geo.
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mj412
Kit
if your were asking me if it is better.
yes..
for me it is. but Im not sick either so it is easy for me to say I do not think I need either.
I would not like to live for as long as I can just as long as I am able to do what I think life should be for me.
for me to need constant care would not be worth it Im very independent and unwilling to compromise what I think is freedom in my life.
just for me no one eles .
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Jim
Rocky,
Got the PSA test a few months ago and it was fine. As I am 50+, I think I'm just getting old. Or as my doctor says, "I'm a grown man now".
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RottieGrrrl
I vote for medical. Nothing wrong with modern science. I say this cause I had a very bad experience with a woman who was an absolute fanatic with herbal stuff. It was good stuff but geeze, it got to the point where I was afraid to tell her I had an itch cause she would want to sell something to me.
The thing was she wasn't trying to make money, she would sell it at cost. It still was expensive and I just didn't trust it the way I do perscription drugs. She told me not to take an anti-biotic for a sinus infection I had, do her stuff instead, she told some lady not to have a liver transplant do her stuff instead.
She insisted she had a healing minsitry and God was directing her to do this stuff. She really believed it too. She really worked hard too, visiting people who were like in their last stages of cancer, telling them to believe they would get healed and so forth.
I started to think she was really going off the deep end when she started telling me that she was praying to God to transport her from one place to another. Beam me up Scotty.
Anyway, she was so difficult to deal with, as good as her heart was, I had to cut her out of my life. She got that bad. Honestly, she really did. I'm not being mean. She was so aggressive and so convinced she had this special ministry.
She really should just have let people alone and make their own decisions.
Anyway, the thing is, this guy she orders from really has excellent stuff. Dr. Shulz. Although he's kind of a fanatic too.
My mom has a a catalog from this guy she still orders stuff from, and she could go to this woman directly and get it at cost, but I told her not to do that. She would end up buying 10 times more stuff than she wants or needs.
OH yeah plus the stuff she wanted me to do for a sinus infection was like 10 times more work than just taking an antibiotic. When you are sick you just don't feel like mixing this, inhaling this, brewing this, etc. etc. ect. You just want to take a pill and lie down.
I sure don't mean to offend our herbalists here but that's my opinion, based on my expericence.
I'm a big girl and can decide what to take for myself.
Cat spelled backwards does NOT spell God!
[This message was edited by RottieGrrrl on November 28, 2003 at 20:18.]
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Jbarrax
I'm a "mostly natural" person. MY wife has a distributorship with an excellent company called Pure Herbs. Great stuff. It's meticulously prepared, very potent, and good for what ails you.
My older brother was diagnosed with a notoriously virulent form of terminal brain cancer (blasto something or other) a year and a half ago. We sent him some essiac (not a Pure Herbs product, but a storied herbal cancer treatment). He's used it consistently, in tandem with his chemo and, according to my mother, the doctors now refer to his case as almost miraculous.
Of course the drug companies will claim that it was all due to the chemo, but that's okay. By the way, his chemotherapy is a new drug that was developped based on research done with an herbal remedy that was synthesized and patented by a pharmaceutical company. So even if you trust drug companies, you're still getting herbal medicine; the watered down, syntheized, patented, overpriced version.
Peace
JerryB
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Jbarrax
Not so George. You ignore one of the most important driving forces in the American medical industry; profit. Herbal remedies HAVE been tested and found to be effective. The most recent was an herbal treatment for breast cancer. The federal govt underwrote the study. When it was tested and found to be effective, a drug company synthesized it, PATENTED it and sold it as trimarin(?). This cause no small stink because a private company is making a fortune off of public funded medical research. (My brother has been receiving this drug for his brain tumor, along with essiac, as I posted above.) Herbs that are proven effective are turned into profitable patents for drug companies. If they became the normative approach, the drug companies would lose billion$. That aint gonna happen any time soon.
Peace
JerryB
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CupaCoffee
I used to be a from the George school of thought until I got real sick for a year. Before that I had never missed a days work due to illness that I can remember. I went to my Dr. and had tests for everything....ultrasound, colonoscopy, biopsies, and they could never really figure out why I was in pain, vomiting and weak. My Daughter finally gave me a test using some litmus paper and I found out I was very acidic. The rest of my family turned the paper a different color when they tested and they were alkaline. She made me drink 12 different waters for a few weeks..silver, copper, magnesium etc. and to this day I am fine and I am alkaline when I lick the litmus paper. I feel great and I can't discount that. Health is something we really take for granted. I was so sick I would try anything. Just my experience.
Make my funk...a sanctified funk...
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Galen
It seems to me that one any topic, the more 'sure' tha tthe doctors are about something, most likely the more hot debate there is on that topic.
I have never really felt comfortable going to them (medical people), but I have full medical coverage so at least it does not cost me anything. Most times if something is stuck in me, or I am cut, I can usually stitch it up by myself. A few times, I have needed someone else's help with tying the knots. The worst stitches that I have ever had, were in the back of my head. I had to trust a medic and they rteally did not know what they were doing. The last time our son Matthew hurt his face (he did a nose dive from a stkateboard and cut up his brow, nose and lip). I met him at the hospital, and tried to comfort him while the medic played around. they were getting consultations and really taking their own stupid time about it, so I finally stitched Matthew's lip back together, while a P.A. stitched his brow.
On the other hand, I have a duodinal ulcer (meaning that it is just below my stomach). I have some cool pictures of it also. Once each year that have me swallow a gardenhose looking video camera, but in return I get prilosec which really does help my heart-burn.
Bless you, May our Heavenly Father bless you in everyway, in the wonderful name of His son and our brother Jesus.
Galen
ET1 SS - USN Retired,
Pilgrim of the Ancient Arabic Order Nobles of the mystic shrine.
and
'University of Life' Alumni
"I live in the spirit of prayer. I pray as I walk, when I lie down, and when I rise. And the answers are always coming. Tens of thousands of times have my prayers been answered. When once I am persuaded that a thing is right, I go on praying for it. the great point is never to give up till the answer comes. The great fault of the children of God is, they do not continue in prayer, they do not persevere. If they desire anything for God's glory, they should pray until they get it." - George Mueller
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masterherbalist
Aha! I found a topic I LOVE!!!!!
Ok here it goes..........
First of all, I am a practicing and educated herbalist of 18 years. So, I have seen the stuff come and go. I think I have a pretty good perspective. Plus, I am an oldie "twi-er", which means I studied under Grace Bliss and Ira Hearn.
I come from an upper middle class American family who believed in once a year check ups from the family physician and once a year dental visits. My father had health insurance for the family through his employer. Eventually the family physician retired and it came down to whatever physician in whatever group practice was approved by the health carrier.
Then, as many in my generation, we left home and did not have the benefit of health insurance. Paid cash or went to clinics.
Personally, I have always questioned why taking care of my physical body always had to be the hands of someone else. Then the west coast tried to introduce organics and there was talk about a possible connection between food and health.
I was attracted to twi fellowships because there seemed to be a source of information regarding health, healing, and claiming the vitality that should be ours. Now, along the way (oops, bad pun), I found the bull.... radar detector in my brain went off on such things as "eat what you want cause you believe God" "if you don't feel better after I ministered to you it's because you're not believing big" or, the biggie: "the colon cleanse" in the Corps. I went around asking questions about the wisdom in the type of fasting and rotor-rooting effect of the cleanse and was told it was great!!!! I wasn't so convinced.
So, you know how it goes, you become "leadership" and your twig or your branch is getting the same cold or flu, or "attacks from the adversary" as everyone else in the world. And you pray for "your people" and they don't instantly heal. And you wonder why like the shadow of Peter, you can't have the same effect. So my research project was on health and healing. And I wrote back and forth especially to Mrs. Wierwille of my continuing research.
And then here comes this "new wave" of herbs, bowel cleansing teachers, etc. And I rolled my eyes just like the rest of you. I pooh-poohed, because, just like one of the posts above, if this stuff was so great why isn't the Journal of American Medicine publishing these findings? So, in my studies, reluctantly, I took a course in nutrition. I found a nirvana!
Holy smokes! NOBODY teaches this stuff! Boy, if someone would believe that diet equals health, we could really revolutionize health care. But the physicians were laughing- how stupid! That diet would have ANYTHING to do with health.
I began my studies with the School of Natural Healing who taught that taking a herb without changing diet and taking responsibility for your own health was no better than doing to the doctor and taking a pill.
Once I started to apply all of this information, the prayers for the sick began to bring about immediate results. Those who realized that just as they were taught in twi, that the Creator utilized principle upon principle, began to change their thinking. It was no longer "an attack from the adversary" but the violation of principle in the care and feeding of the physical body. Sure, we had some genetic issues to deal with (sins of the fathers passed onto the sins of the sons), but I really began to see the results.
Of course, in the meantime, the "meals" at the Corps Cafeterias were not designed with wisdom, the cleanse was scrapped, Grace Bliss' training had all but been forgotten. Then Dr. W. died of all things CANCER which we were all taught was a devil spirit.
And we all left or were M & A'd. And I looked at the forum boards and saw the very people that I fellowshipped with having the same diseases, illnesses, etc. as the rest of the world. I wasn't satisfied with that. Cause no matter what, I am pretty well convinced that we are all family spiritually speaking. And I was not going to take my light and hide in under a basket. If I could help, I would.
I realize that there is alot of skepticism. And with what the world has done with herbs and every Tom, Dick, and Harry comes out with remedies and products for sale- I am not surprised. And most of the time, I agree, there isn't a whole lot out there that will "cure" you. What I endeavored to do was to offer my education and experiences, without soliciting products, without being overly judgmental. It was met with a dull thud. Most of the responses were how great the doctors and drugs were and how the poster's faith was in those two things. I thought, my God, do you hear what you are saying? I don't hear "believers" talking. I hear the world talking. Have faith and trust where? Don't you question the source? Is the source a God fearing physician? Are the drug companies really making magic pills?
Well, within the last few years, the questions are truely starting to increase in volume. However, the b.s. in the "herb" or "alternative" industry has caused more distrust and alarm. The drug companies are now admitting openly that their remedy will heal your ingrown toe nail, but may cause nose bleeds, liver damage, heart failure, etc. Of course, it is sugar coated in a nice family commercial with upbeat music- so how bad can it be? The 3rd cause of death in the United States is Iatrogenic Events(translation: Doctor caused deaths). Last year's numbers regarding adverse drug reactions is 2.2 million. Unnecessary antibiotic use? 20 million.
My efforts were always designed to EDUCATE. Never did I say to take saw palmetto and that would "fix" your problem. Never did I say that prayer is not needed. Never did I say that our medical system does not have a place and don't ever go to a doctor. (Their place, by the way, is emergency and trauma medicine). I wish someone had put the health and healing package together for me in the manner I attempt to do 18 years ago. I would be so much further ahead in my learning and research.
I have tried to "preach" taking responsibility for your own health. I have tried sharing that reliance on someone or something other than yourself leaves you vulnerable and compromises your health. I admit, I had high expectations. I figured with what most of us have in common in background and experience, that it would be a breath of fresh air to have someone with some background and a certain amount of credibility. I never promised you a rose garden, or the easy way. I don't expect change to be an overnight, effortless thing. I just did not expect the types of posts that I have seen where drugs and surgery and whatever the doctor says was accepted without question-without the investment of time necessary to research and question "alternatives".
The Masterherbalist hath spoken........
I need a green drink!!!!
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mj412
you say the word
EDUCATE!
I hear the word
WORK
like cooking healthy food... not so much a joy as going to the fab market and buying it already made sorry .
discipline my man it takes discipline ... oo ok
I am vey glad you posted.
i feel ahamed... kididng here I was raised by natural people ona farm so it goes with my life but sounds like to much work.
i would like to speak to you on a topic without the genral view here is it possible we can PT on something?
love mj412
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diazbro
My two cents worth-
First I don't really know MasterHerbalist
very well though I think he/she has been
a decent poster here and has made some
good contribtutions. So my comments below
are not directed at him/her in any way.
I'm just speaking in general and relative
to my own experience.
Clearly , herbs and plants are fundamental to
many medical treatments and medicines though
these substances alone or in the wrong amounts
can many times produce undesireable or insignificant effects. But that doesn't negate the utility of a given plant that might be useful developping treatments say for seizures.
And there are of course cultures such as the
Chinese who have a deep, deep knowledge and
respect for herbal treatments though
chinese physicians are usually very well trained and have centuries of information
upon which to base their treatments. (See
Bill Moyers' "Healing And The Mind" for
loads of info on this).
But Compare this to the typical Western herbalist who seems to embrace herbs only as part of the "New Age" movement which ,in my experience, is very lightweight not to mention notoriously unscientific. When I encounter an american "herbalist" they are almost always using store bought books as references and outside of that they have no practical experience ,( and certainly no medical training), in administering herbs for
medicinal purposes.
To be fair, people like Andrew Weil have approached this scientifically (though he is
a Harvard M.D) and if you read his books
you see that he strongly adovcates seeking out
qualified help usually an M.D. so its not like
he is giving to legitimacy to the lay man who
advertises in some New-Age magazine as an "herbalist/shaman". Of course its
these very people who name check Andrew Weil
as if they were close buddies.
Its quite possible of course that you need
to separate the quick buck artists in the New
Age movement from those who exist outside of
that and perhaps have the misfortune of having
their passionate interest in herbs associated
with practitioneers of "Ear-Candling" or "Third
Plane Reiki", or "Urban Shamanism".
I'm sure there are some very knowledgeable
herbalists out there but how would you know
given that there are no licensing boards for
this type of thing so you are pretty much reliant upon word-of-mouth ?
I've had some sessions with
a chinese physician who has prescribed teas
for ailments which have defied typical western
treatments. These aren't like simple teas either. I've got like 20 individual herbs and
plants from which I make this foul,hellish broth
that DOES work for me. Its not miraculous by
any means but it helps. This fellow told me
that he thinks that westerm medicine is most
effective for treating acute situations and chinese medicine is effective for treating
chronic problems. Together they make a potent
combination.
But I'm still skeptical of some johnny-come-lately,self-proclaimed expert who rattles off potion recipes like
a bartender reciting whats in a given drink.
Especially if they have only been studying the
topic for like only three years
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diazbro
Jbarrax said:
When it was tested and found to be effective, a drug company synthesized it, PATENTED it and sold it as trimarin(?). This cause no small stink because a private company is making a fortune off of public funded medical research.
>>
Understand that the patent applies to the synthetic process and its end product. They cannot patent the herb or prevent others from developing medicines based on it (as long as they don't use the same process).
Govenment funding is at the heart of most university research and the expectation is that the results of those studies will be openly
shared and available. What people/agencies do with those results can be used to form the basis of patents. Anyone here can read those
journals and commence new work based on those
findings. This is nothing new and perhaps desireable given the alternative that
the government would own the patent which
means it would take centuries for them
to get around to even trying to do something
with it.
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